What Oil

[d2dave]

My recently purchased TD5 Disco is coming due for a service. Looking in the hand book there are a few different oils and oil specs that can be used.

Can you all tell me what oil you are using?

[alpick]

no but a search will

[d2dave]

I went into the technical section and the D2 section and tried a search using the word oil, and I came up with no match. I have never had much luck doing searches around here.

[alpick]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/71605-lubrication-oils-according-rick130-more.html

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Thanks for the post Dave,,

got the chance to put the boot into Rick:D:D

[OffTrack]

The forum search doesn't allow search terms of 3 characters or less.

Googling with a site restriction to the D2 sub forum works pretty well:


site:aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/ td5 oil recommend


http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=site:aulro.com%2Fafvb%2Fdiscovery-2%2F+td5+oil+recommend&oq=site:aulro.com%2Fafvb%2Fdiscovery-2%2F+td5+oil+recommend&gs_l=serp.3...141424.143320.0.143768.10.10.0.0.0.0 .232.2183.2-10.10.0...0.0...1c.1.osUsrozOlhU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=27acba30a70be6ca&biw=1320&bih=594

[rick130]

and a more specific link from Al's link, and a few extra lines, just for Mr Swifts edification :p

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1308575-post29.html

and from that post

TD5's = a good 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40 or 5W-50 engine oil with at least an ACEA A1/B1 but if the oil meets the A3/B3/B4 spec this is preferable.

For the best protection an ACEA E4 or E4/E7 oil can be used. These are heavy duty diesel oils with the E7 spec indicating suitable for extended drains so are very high quality oils. The E7 spec includes a test for wear at high soot levels, extra corrosion and oxidation tests and better piston cleanliness standard than the E4 spec.

Under 35*C ambient a 5W-30 or 10W-30 may be used if meeting the ACEA A3/B3/B4 specs.

This can now be updated to state that the ACEA E9 spec has been introduced which requires much better aftertreatment capabilities for the oil compared to E7 oils, with slightly better wear, soot handling and corrosion protection and the same bore polish and piston cleanliness performance as the already excellent E7 oils.

[simonmelb]

I shopped around recently for the best value E9 rated oil and went with Penrite Enviro+ 10w40 fully synthetic at $80 for 10L from the Oil Warehouse in Kangaroo Flat. Can't give any more feedback as I've just done the oil change.

Cheers
Simon

[rick130]

I shopped around recently for the best value E9 rated oil and went with Penrite Enviro+ 10w40 fully synthetic at $80 for 10L from the Oil Warehouse in Kangaroo Flat. Can't give any more feedback as I've just done the oil change.

Cheers
Simon

That's a good price and a good oil, in its previous life it was called Diesel SP.

[d2dave]

The forum search doesn't allow search terms of 3 characters or less.

Googling with a site restriction to the D2 sub forum works pretty well:


site:aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/ td5 oil recommend


I have not got a hope in hell of doing a search that complex. I am an old fart that does not even understand half of the above, let alone try to remember it.

[Rick Fischer]

Recommend you use Mobil 1 0-? Comes in Gold container. $80 plus for 5 litres. sometimes you can pick it up cheaper. Used to have to get mine from the local Mobil agent.

It is the BMW/LR recommended oil for the engine. Used it for 266 000km. Less expensive oils are just not worth the trouble.

Cheers

RF

[rick130]

Recommend you use Mobil 1 0-? Comes in Gold container. $80 plus for 5 litres. sometimes you can pick it up cheaper. Used to have to get mine from the local Mobil agent.

It is the BMW/LR recommended oil for the engine. Used it for 266 000km. Less expensive oils are just not worth the trouble.

Cheers

RF

With all due respect, the oil Simon mentioned above in post # 8 is a better oil than the very good M1 0W-40.

If you want to do your head in, read some of the old oil posts/threads on here and it may (or may not) become clear why. :D

[bob10]

My recently purchased TD5 Disco is coming due for a service. Looking in the hand book there are a few different oils and oil specs that can be used.

Can you all tell me what oil you are using?

Valvoline synpower 5W 40, fully synthetic.I change every 5,000 kms. although my local independant LR dealer says synpower can go out to 10,000 kms no trouble. Oil still looks ok at 5,000 kms, 350,000 kms on the D2. Bob

[rick130]

Valvoline synpower 5W 40, fully synthetic.I change every 5,000 kms. although my local independant LR dealer says synpower can go out to 10,000 kms no trouble. Oil still looks ok at 5,000 kms, 350,000 kms on the D2. Bob

Unless you are doing lots of sub 10km trips and/or lots of city driving/idling and it takes 12 months or longer between oil changes then yes, you are wasting your oil.

[scarry]

Valvoline synpower 5W 40, fully synthetic.I change every 5,000 kms. although my local independant LR dealer says synpower can go out to 10,000 kms no trouble. Oil still looks ok at 5,000 kms, 350,000 kms on the D2. Bob


That oil will do 15k easily in TD5 under normal type driving conditions.I have had it tested at this type of mileage & it was OK.
It is also the oil MR auto use in the TD5's.


Same as what Rick says,wasting money changing to often.

[robbotd5]

For those that use Penrite 5W40 HPR5 Diesel, what frequency are you changing it out. I've just done 4500km heavy towing/touring in Victoria, thinking of changing oil and filters. Is the Valvolene synpower a better oil???
Regards
Robbo.

[d2dave]

If you want to do your head in, read some of the old oil posts/threads on here and it may (or may not) become clear why. :D

Rick, Do my head in is an understatement. I have trolled through a lot of threads and all these ACEA numbers are confusing.

What I did learn though is that you are the oil Guru. So I have a couple of questions. A lot of people are saying that a TD5 must run synthetic yet there is no mention of this in my LR hand book.

My hand book says it must be ACEA A1 and B1. It then has a note saying that B2 oils are also suitable. Is this saying that B2 is not as good but ok to use?

Below are two reasonably priced oils that the manufacturer says is ok for TD5. What are your thoughts on these?

This oil does not have anything that that the LR book recommends.

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2382/img7051zg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/img7051zg.jpg/)

This one does have B2 but no A1.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2273/img7052l.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/img7052l.jpg/)

[rick130]

IMO if you are only doing 5-10,000km oil change intervals, why would you use a full syn oil unless you are absolutely caning your engine ?

A full synthetic oil isn't always needed, and plenty of good mineral based heavy duty diesel oils will outperform a light duty full synthetic oil in hard diesel use.
I know of blokes that have used oils that would send the average TD5 owner on here into apoplexy if they found out, yet the oil test always came out brilliantly.

TD5's can be hard on cams, particularly the lobes for the unit injectors.
It might be a metallurgy issue, I don't know, but as a consequence I sure wouldn't like to use a petrol fuel efficiency oil like Mobil 1 0W-30, even though it's a full synthetic oil.
This is because M1 0W-30 is formulated to meet the ILSAC GF-4 specifications which among a very long list of tests has a relatively low HTHS (High Temp/High Sheer) pass number to meet fuel economy requirements.
In highly loaded areas such as unit injector lobes, these oils may not provide sufficient protection

I'm not sure how those PDS's can list the ILSAC GF-4 spec and meet the ACEA specs listed ??
The HTHS specs are totally different ?
Is it possible for an xW-40 oil that can meet the GF-4 spec anyway ??

Put it this way, I wouldn't use any oil in a TD5 that listed the ILSAC GF-4 specification, IMO the HTHS requirements are too low, where as the ACEA specs listed have a more than adequate HTHS pass number.

FWIW the GF-4 spec is now obsolete from a licensing point of view, with ILSAC GF-5 now superseding it.
The HTHS specs with GF-5 are still too low for turbo diesel use according to European manufacturers.


A couple of simple things re ACEA oil specifications.

A = petrol engine for cars
B = diesel engines for cars/light duty use.
C = low SAPS oils
E = heavy duty diesel oil

The A1/B1 is a really old spec now and doesn't meet the minimum requirements for any modern engine. It was originally introduced in 1996 but has been upgraded a number of times since.

What Land Rover demand as a minimum spec in the handbook for the TD5 is so out of date now it isn't funny.
Oils have moved on so far since 1999 I wouldn't even bother looking at it, eg the B2 spec doesn't even exist anymore.

The A3/B3-08 and A3/B4-08 oils as listed on the two different PDS's meet the same wear/sludge/varnish specs, it's specific manufacturer approvals and some viscosity range differences that separate the two specs.
I'd be looking at both those specs as a minimum for a TD5 these days.


Either one would be more than acceptable if they didn't list the GF-4 spec, (it has to be a typo) the 5W-40 just uses higher priced base oils compared to the semi-syn 10W-40 which is reflected in its price. In real world use they would probably perform the same, particularly here in Australia where we have mild winters compared to Europe.
A 0W or 5W-40 oil just isn't needed here, even in the snow. (that'll get a few going ;) )



If they make an E4/E6/E9 10W-40 oil for the same money I'd go that way. Heavy duty diesel oils are the way to go in 4x4 engines IMO. Nothing like a bit of overkill for the same $ or less ;)

[schuy1]

I agree totally with rick on that. A bit of overkill wiyh oils can only be a good thing, within reason and wallet! :D The Defendor Tdi has always had Tection Global ES in it( apart from the first dealer service of RX ) and 307000 later the oils still cleanish looking at changes.
Scott

[Psimpson7]

Valvoline synpower 5W 40, fully synthetic.I change every 5,000 kms. although my local independant LR dealer says synpower can go out to 10,000 kms no trouble. Oil still looks ok at 5,000 kms, 350,000 kms on the D2. Bob

This is the oil I use aswell. Change it at around 6-8k km along with both filters although it does get used hard.

[d2dave]

Thanks Rick. You have been more than helpful. So to put it simply I should give this oil a miss due to the GF-4, yes?

[bob10]

IMO if you are only doing 5-10,000km oil change intervals, why would you use a full syn oil unless you are absolutely caning your engine ?



You certainly know your stuff, and your advice is well received . Reading your info on oils I find very interesting, and informative, thank you. However, I am completely under the spell of my disco, it's like having a beautiful woman , do you dress her in silk, or sackcloth? I would like to see 500,000 kms on the clock before I'm in Eventide, just a personal thing, Bob

[rick130]

Thanks Rick. You have been more than helpful. So to put it simply I should give this oil a miss due to the GF-4, yes?


Dave, it has to be a typo, but what else is, err, lacking on that PDS ??

[OffTrack]

I have not got a hope in hell of doing a search that complex. I am an old fart that does not even understand half of the above, let alone try to remember it.

It's not that tricky. Add "site:" to the website you want to restrict the search to.

site:aulro.com will return results the forum aulro site. If you look at the address bar of your browser when you are in a sub forum you'll see the link is aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2 or whatever. I just cut and paste the link as required to limit the search to the sub-forum I'm interested in.

[Fluids]

Robbo, I'm doing HPR Diesel 5 (5w/40) at 10,000 along with both filters .... Regardless of duty or time. It's still not black at that oil drain interval. I usually do an engine oil flush just prior to dropping the oil ... The first two times I did that the amount of crud that came out was woeful! .... :eek:

These engines are rated to go 20k between oil changes, or 10k for severe duty .... Changing the oil (if using good quality oil) at less than 10k is just wasting money. In a lot of cases 15k is quite OK.

Sent from my iPad using Braille

[Fluids]

I might just add too .... I buy my HPR Diesel 5 from SuperCheap when it's on special, and normaly pay around $68-72 for 10L. I have checked the item on the web site to email me when on special .... I buy when it's cheap, not when I need it now.

Sent from my iPad using Braille

[Yorkie]

Robbo, I'm doing HPR Diesel 5 (5w/40) at 10,000 along with both filters .... Regardless of duty or time. It's still not black at that oil drain interval. I usually do an engine oil flush just prior to dropping the oil ... The first two times I did that the amount of crud that came out was woeful! .... :eek:

These engines are rated to go 20k between oil changes, or 10k for severe duty .... Changing the oil (if using good quality oil) at less than 10k is just wasting money. In a lot of cases 15k is quite OK.

Sent from my iPad using Braille

same here and no issues i can see, two filters and semi hi tec engine it would be silly to change at earlier intervals. :)

[OffTrack]

same here and no issues i can see, two filters and semi hi tec engine it would be silly to change at earlier intervals. :)

I'm another in the HPR Diesel 5 and 10K km interval camp.

LR are pretty specific about what constitutes arduous duty, and unless you are spending more that 50% of your running time idling or traveling at under 15kph the 10K Km/6 months oil changes should be more than adequate.
50909

[Hoges]

Magnatec 15W-40W diesel formulation from Supercheap ... excellent for flat tappet engines.
cheers

[Nova]

I usually do an engine oil flush just prior to dropping the oil ... The first two times I did that the amount of crud that came out was woeful! .... :eek:
This may be a silly question, but what is an engine oil flush?

Cheers,
Nova

[d2dave]

Nova. Not at all a silly question. I was going to ask it myself, so I too am wondering.

[Fluids]

Hi Nova

This is what I use ...

Engine Oil Flush- Nulon Australia (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Engine_Treatments/Engine_Oil_Flush/)

I just go 1 bottle. They say 1 bottle to 6L. The Td5 drops a bit over 7L + filters.

My first 2 oil changes were using Penrite SinDiesel ... bloody expensive, and the oil would turn black within 500km ... so I used the Nulon flush and switched to HPRD5, and at 10,000km now the oil is still not black .... the Sin oil was obviously starting to break down & release the carbon build up in the engine ... the Nulon cleans it out completley.

[d2dave]

Rick. You said earlier that A = Petrol and B = Diesel. Why then does the LR book list A1 for the TD5 and Penrite HPR Diesel also has A3?

[rick130]

Rick. You said earlier that A = Petrol and B = Diesel. Why then does the LR book list A1 for the TD5 and Penrite HPR Diesel also has A3?

Most oils are dual rated for petrol/diesel usage, it's just the bias that's different (eg an A3/B3 oil has its additive package biased towards petrol usage and light diesel use, an E4/E6/E9/SM oil is biased towards heavy duty diesel use, but meets the US API SM petrol spec. too, so you can use it in a petrol engine car that calls for that spec) and as I said earlier, the A1/B1 specs are bloody old, as is the TD5 book.

I forgot to mention that the US API specs are

S = petrol
C = diesel

so an API CI-4+/SM oil is a very robust HD diesel oil that you can use in a relatively modern petrol engine too.

An SN/CF oil is for a very late model petrol engine that can be used in most light diesels with good results, but IMO if you cane your diesel I'd use the HD diesel biased oil.
The anti-wear/bore polish/sludge control/dispersant package of an API CI-4+ or ACEA E4/E6 on oil is far superior to a CF or B3 oil and will keep doing so for extended periods under arduous use.

I won't confuse things with individual manufacturer specs, (like Puma owners have to deal with) it just gets crazy :blink:

[rick130]

Hi Nova

This is what I use ...

Engine Oil Flush- Nulon Australia (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Engine_Treatments/Engine_Oil_Flush/)

I just go 1 bottle. They say 1 bottle to 6L. The Td5 drops a bit over 7L + filters.

My first 2 oil changes were using Penrite SinDiesel ... bloody expensive, and the oil would turn black within 500km ... so I used the Nulon flush and switched to HPRD5, and at 10,000km now the oil is still not black .... the Sin oil was obviously starting to break down & release the carbon build up in the engine ... the Nulon cleans it out completley.

IMO once you've used a flush you shouldn't need it again when you are using really good HD diesel oils and a decent oil change period.

If you want to do a flush, maybe once every 100-160,000km ?

I just worry about them as they can be pretty harsh at times and are diluting the oil, so is it possible they may contribute to wear ?
I just don't know.

[robbotd5]

I might just add too .... I buy my HPR Diesel 5 from SuperCheap when it's on special, and normaly pay around $68-72 for 10L. I have checked the item on the web site to email me when on special .... I buy when it's cheap, not when I need it now.

Sent from my iPad using Braille

Kev,I get mine from all 4 by 4. 80 odd dollars.
Regards
Robbo