Rear Coil Springs:- 1985 110 County

[dick180641]

My existing REAR COIL SPRINGS are getting a bit sad, and because I carry a fair bit of weight I also need a slight 'lift' in the rear!
Now, the problem is, the county was built with a LOAD LEVELLER, which I removed many years ago. BUT on a replacement spring website they have two diferent sets of springs, to wit, one to suit a County WITH the load leveller and the other for the County WITHOUT the load leveller. Which set of springs would I order?

[uninformed]

are your current springs the OEM original springs?
How much weight do you carry daily?
Do you like the ride/feel of the truck atm?
What rear shocks do you have?

The only difference between WITH or WITHOUT LL is the spring rate. The springs are the same Dia, and go in the same location.

Personally Unless you are loading to the max and doing outback travel over bad roads, I would get the LL rebuilt and reinstall

[87County]

OK.....

I have recently been through this and the facts are this....

The load leveller is difficult and expensive to get rebuilt and even if you do it won't last as long as you will want it to.

Readily available replacement springs are from 3 manufacturers - Dobinsons, Kings and Lovells - Dobinsons are by far the cheapest (direct from them) but come with little recommendation

But, Dobinsons are the only catalogue/manufacturer that seems to be aware that there is a difference, and the effect of that difference ... with/without the load leveller.

Kings and Lovells are both of little help with detailed advice....("stick to the catalogue sir" - yes - and be disappointed)

In the raised 110 Defender springs Lovells are 22mm wire, Kings are 21mm wire....

(the Kings County raised springs are 17mm wire - says it all really - and the post above by uninformed apparently is :))

What you need to decide is whether to keep your LL - (my experience would suggest that removing it is the best/most economical & practical option)

Then if you decide to remove it - order appropriate springs not for the 110 County but from those listed for the 110 Defender

If you decide to keep the LL I know where there is a hardly used set of Kings raised County springs (KLRR -04) cheap (pm me if you're interested)

FWIW I eventually went without the LL and installed Kings KLRR-05 (the deare$t coils @ abt $250 delivered) .

In my view, if you take an option similar to that which I did, you may be able to do away with the sway bar as well (just like in a Deefer).

[dick180641]

Thanks "uninformed", replying to you (for more info!):-
1.Yes! apart from the removal of the LL (and an engine change, see below) she's all original, I've had her since new, now got 300th K's on the clock.
2.weight? A LOT! 9 pax, 200lts diesel, 100lts water, camp gear, 2 spares, full length roofrack (loaded)
3. Handling, well she's a bit 'rolly' and very 'soft' and 'bottoms out' badly on bumps (I can see cuts in the BS rubbers due to pounding) It needs new shocks, but I'll wait until the new springs are in before I get them.
4. I replaced the V8 (only due to fuel and rego costs) and put in an Ex Rangie VM 2.4 diesel (50,000k ago) I'm very satisfied with its performance and reliability &c., but it seemed to accentuate the "front up-rear down" attitude of the vehicle. So I think that I'd need the HEAVIER rate rear springs (which are they? w/ or w/out LL?)
5. I dont think I'd get the LL rebuilt, I consider it extra weight w/out a great deal of benefit and ALL my travel is on bad roads as I live up north of Cooktown FNQ.
6. I do all my own work on my vehicles, and I'm a bit of a Rover freak, having 4 Rover 2000TC saloons, 2 series 1's, 5 series 2's, 2 series 3's, 1 County, 1 Rangie and 1 disco. (Land Rover:- the grown man's meccano set!)

[isuzutoo-eh]

4. I replaced the V8 (only due to fuel and rego costs) and put in an Ex Rangie VM 2.4 diesel (50,000k ago) I'm very satisfied with its performance and reliability &c., but it seemed to accentuate the "front up-rear down" attitude of the vehicle. So I think that I'd need the HEAVIER rate rear springs (which are they? w/ or w/out LL?)


Springs meant for use with a load leveller are a lower rate than those intended for use without a load leveller.

[rick130]

OK.....

I have recently been through this and the facts are this....

The load leveller is difficult and expensive to get rebuilt and even if you do it won't last as long as you will want it to.

Readily available replacement springs are from 3 manufacturers - Dobinsons, Kings and Lovells - Dobinsons are by far the cheapest (direct from them) but come with little recommendation

[snip]


Umm, Les Richmond Automotive in Victoria have springs on the shelf in much more realistic rates than the companies mentioned (and are wound by Browns Springs in Victoria)
If you don't know exactly what you need, Andrew Richmond is the first port of call IMO.
He knows Land Rovers and knows that the spring rates mostly offered by the big spring companies are crazy.

OME and TJM also have a range of 110 springs.

Any of the specialist Land Rover parts importers have springs, such as Bearmach.

There are small independent spring winders as well that can wind springs to your specs. eg K-Mac in Sydney, Betta Springs in St Mary's (Sydney), Liverpool Springs Moorebank (Sydney), etc.
Not sure if they still supply, but Eibach make possibly the best springs in the world and used to wind Defender springs.
They were just off the top of my head.

FWIW, here's a list of springs in the pdf below compiled by Red90/John B, whose online list seems to be down ATM

[dick180641]

Dear 87County,
Thanks, by the way, I was advised some time ago to do away with the 'sway-bar', took it off, yeehah! All over the road, very nearly went over on the Docker River Road, soon as I got to Perth, put it back on....Beaut!!

[clive22]

Hi

I'd have to agree with Rick on the springs

I run an 85 county now without a load leveller - old an died.To correct my sagged original springs I replaced with same rate as stock for an 85 County with LRA springs. They have lasted me 4 years and 50k km so far.

I run it without the rear sway bar around the hills and put the sway back on for loaded desert work ( 2 people + sat 250 kg of camping gear), it really helps more with a load.

I've found this work very well but it is really quite soft, and leans pretty bad on the corners, especially loaded w/out sway bar. But it rides very well and works well off road.

In my experience I'd suggest sticking with original springs rates and slowing down. The benefits with the ride and articulation compensates for the handling loss.


Clive

[uninformed]

Ok..................87 County :)

Lets look at the OP's main question: Does he order the springs for WITH or WITHOUT load leveller?

Now this is a very basic question, given the hardware in a LR rear end: A frame arms, bushes and ball joint, trailing arms and its bushes, axle assembly, springs, shock absorbers and EITHER WITH or WITHOUT Load leveller.

So what is the Difference? well simply the LL, either WITH or WITHOUT.

NO magic between coils WITH or WITHOUT, no extra gadgetry that changes the laws of physics....so OUTSIDE DIA of 110 coils WITH or WITHOUT LL are the same. Do you get where I was comming from and what I was trying to get the OP to understand...basic answer for a basic question ;)


You can quote part numbers and brands all day, but WITHOUT a spring rate and spring type, ie varibale rate etc, then they mean bugger all. And that goes for lift or no lift.

Whats the bet the OP's bump stop space is at or below 100mm in the rear.

If he likes the ride or almost, then running some heavy arse springs isnt going to give him the package he wants. By the sounds of it he doesnt need, nore after huge travel. So some decent off the shelf Koni or Bilstein would be my recommendation for shocks. If he doesnt want to run the LL, he can take the measurements and pretty well known spring rate of his OEM rear, WITH load leveller springs, as a base for feel, just getting them longer for the BSS he wants....

As a note the spring rate on my OEM 110 CC springs is about 320lb, this is WITHOUT load leveller. The 85 county OEM WITH Load leveller are about 180lb...So the OP, should be on 180lb rears.

[uninformed]

Thanks "uninformed", replying to you (for more info!):-
1.Yes! apart from the removal of the LL (and an engine change, see below) she's all original, I've had her since new, now got 300th K's on the clock.

OK so if they are the original you now have a base rate for "feel" that would be 180lb


2.weight? A LOT! 9 pax, 200lts diesel, 100lts water, camp gear, 2 spares, full length roofrack (loaded)

What is 9 pax? The diesel and water would be about 250kg plus tank weights, so say 300kg plus the other gear...how much of this is carried by the rear axle only?

3. Handling, well she's a bit 'rolly' and very 'soft' and 'bottoms out' badly on bumps (I can see cuts in the BS rubbers due to pounding) It needs new shocks, but I'll wait until the new springs are in before I get them.

Well the BS copping a pounding are due to your now old sagged springs AND the fact they were designed to work WITH the load leveller....But if you like the ride, other than the bottoming out, you could go for a new spring in either same rate of a bit more ( Say upto 220lb)


4. I replaced the V8 (only due to fuel and rego costs) and put in an Ex Rangie VM 2.4 diesel (50,000k ago) I'm very satisfied with its performance and reliability &c., but it seemed to accentuate the "front up-rear down" attitude of the vehicle. So I think that I'd need the HEAVIER rate rear springs (which are they? w/ or w/out LL?)

This could have also co-insided with your LL crapping out...I would doubt the VM deisel to be that much lighter than the 3.5 v8...


5. I dont think I'd get the LL rebuilt, I consider it extra weight w/out a great deal of benefit and ALL my travel is on bad roads as I live up north of Cooktown FNQ.

Then go with a slightly heavier spring rate and to the length you require.


6. I do all my own work on my vehicles, and I'm a bit of a Rover freak, having 4 Rover 2000TC saloons, 2 series 1's, 5 series 2's, 2 series 3's, 1 County, 1 Rangie and 1 disco. (Land Rover:- the grown man's meccano set!)

If this is the case, Im a little suprised you have to ask about what springs to order. This is not a dig at you, just how I read the info thus far.

[dick180641]

You're dead right! A basic answer to a basic Q! just what I needed! I confirmed this with "Ironman Springs" and bought 'em!
2. ?PAX? read p a s s e n g e r s !
3.Re your final statement:- measure twice, cut once! and it cost me nothing to ASK..Many thanks

[uninformed]

what rate are your new "ironman springs" ?

I hope it works out for you. :)

Alot find the LL to be a peice of junk, when in fact it is a pretty smart bit of kit that has been incorperated into some very basic but clever rear end set up(link type and geometry) on the rear of Landrovers. The only negative I have heard on these is for overweighted (maybe yours) 110's and them bending and pulling the axle tubes. This wasnt such a deal on the RangeRovers as they generally didnt have that much extra weight shoved in them, and their fabricated housings can stand a little more abuse than the 110 housing + press tubes....

[LowRanger]

I still find it hard to fathom,that all the responses,and no one mentioned the first and most basic thing to do:eek:Go and have both end of the vehicle weighed with the normally carried weight on board,and then calculate the required spring rates for each corner.Each vehicle is different and individual,and people need to take all the guess work out of things,and do things properly the first time,it saves a lot of heart ache and not to mention back ache and cash.

[uninformed]

agreed Wayne, thats why I was trying to get across the idea of some base lines....

btw, here on the GC, its not that easy to find a weigh bridge that will tell you the weights :mad:....my local tip has a "public" weigh bridge...they REFUSE to tell me my weights. I think someone may have come up with the idea of them being responsable for something somehow....FDH's!!!!

[justinc]

Just out of interest, I have removed the dead ride leveller from my '85110, and fitted genuine LR rear defender coils, (red/green stripe, approx 330lb) with Decarbon shocks. Rear is perfect when towing, but with an empty fuel tank and no camper trailer on it is IMO a bit harsh still. Have LRA Orange coils in front, (similar rate and lengths to NRC9448/NRC9449 130 Defender H'duty front), with Decarbon Shocks.

The front springs and shocks are now 11 years old, and since fitting it all from the RRC to the 110 and adding a winch etc it is time to uprate the front springs to County Isuzu spec coils. They have dropped 25mm and I have less than 70mm bump stop clearance now. Still very happy with their lifespan, LRA make great springs!!


JC

[uninformed]

this is the thing, aside from the good bad quality, which most springs by dobson king etc are good quality, it is 100% personal feel that is the deciding factor.

I have 250lb in my 110cc short alloy tray, and would like to go lower. I have 210lb in the front. Koni's front and rear. I use to have a stock 81 RRC....I would love to be back to that ride.

Im thinking of going down to 180lb in the front and not sure in the rear. I do have a 110 LL to fit if I decide I want to.

[LowRanger]

Yep,public weighbridges here are not very obliging either.

[LowRanger]

Long soft springs are beautiful in a touring oriented vehicle,but can be a little precarious in some hard core situations.

[uninformed]

Long soft springs are beautiful in a touring oriented vehicle,but can be a little precarious in some hard core situations.

can you expand more on this?

[weeds]

I still find it hard to fathom,that all the responses,and no one mentioned the first and most basic thing to do:eek:Go and have both end of the vehicle weighed with the normally carried weight on board,and then calculate the required spring rates for each corner.Each vehicle is different and individual,and people need to take all the guess work out of things,and do things properly the first time,it saves a lot of heart ache and not to mention back ache and cash.

Sooo, I am weighing my defender and camper trailer this weekend. Interested in how I work out the spring rates once I have the front and rear axle weights and the tow ball weight.

Is it a formula?
Or is it a sliding scale type thing using a chart?

Other than putting poly airs back in I'm not certain it's straight forward working off axle weights.

[rick130]

I still find it hard to fathom,that all the responses,and no one mentioned the first and most basic thing to do:eek:Go and have both end of the vehicle weighed with the normally carried weight on board,and then calculate the required spring rates for each corner.Each vehicle is different and individual,and people need to take all the guess work out of things,and do things properly the first time,it saves a lot of heart ache and not to mention back ache and cash.

I was just trying to keep it basic Wayne.

That's why I said ring Andrew at LRA, as most aren't capable/have the knowledge/experience/skills to work out what they need.

[weeds]

Yep,public weighbridges here are not very obliging either.

I'm lucky enough to have a weigh bridge at my work.

[LowRanger]

I was just trying to keep it basic Wayne.

That's why I said ring Andrew at LRA, as most aren't capable/have the knowledge/experience/skills to work out what they need.

Rick
Unfortunately,most merchants that have a particular spring listed to fit a specific vehicle,tend to sell that spring regardless.The same goes for shocks,as one well known manufacturer sells for Landies;)
There are some suspension people that actually do the right thing,and weigh peoples vehicles,and ask about its intended use before they recommend a spring of a certain weight.But unfortunately,they are few and far between.

[dick180641]

dear Uninformed:-
I didnt ask the actual 'rate' , I just ordered the 'heaviest' of the two alternatives (ie w/ or w/out LL). They do have a slight 'rise' of 35mm, which may help compensate the exesive loads I carry! (I hope!)
Thanks again! Dick R

[dick180641]

Easy to say when you're in Sydney, I live north of Cooktown, its a 750 klm round trip to Cairns, just to weigh-in!

[uninformed]

Dick, I hope you get the ride you are after. There are many ways to make a coil give a specific lift.....all will affect ride quality. Having said that, many of the AM coil makers/sellers are building HD coils based on the OEM non-LL rate, that is 330lb and then go heavier......

[LowRanger]

Easy to say when you're in Sydney, I live north of Cooktown, its a 750 klm round trip to Cairns, just to weigh-in!

That isn't even a tank of fuel:D
Good luck with your purchase though.
There is a big difference between putting up with what you get ,and getting what you really want;)

[UBZ]

I have just replaced the aweful super hard dobbson springs in the rear of my 92 110 county . And removed the poked Load leveler at the same time .
I managed to find a set of 2nd hand factory HD 110 springs to replace them with .
As the springs are slightly differnt lenghts , Following the LR specification I have put the Red/Red (longer spring ) on the drivers side rear and the Red/green on the passengers side .

This has resulted in the rear of the truck leaning towards the passenger side noticibly .
Re-reading the LR specifion I have noticed that in the factory configuration with the load leveler and 180lb springs , that the longer spring of the pair (blue/blue) is supposed to be on passenger side ???

Is there a difference in suspension / chassis design between the 110's that came with the load leveler and those that diddnt ? meaning that LR put the longer spring on a different side ?

has anyone else come across this before ? do I just live with The slight lean or swap the HD springs side to side ?

[uninformed]

chassis and suspension, nothing I can think of. The info I have shows the longer on the drivers side, both front and rear. This is NOT LR documents though....

The only thing I can think of is that the original 110 with lt95 and its overall set up may be heavier on the passenger side...but I doubt it. LR have long put longer/taller springs in the drivers side. The vehicle should sit a little high that side untill your in it and full of fuel.

where is your spare wheel/tyre located?

how much difference was there in the free length of the springs?

now compare that to the loaded length?

If the difference is the same and you think swapping over will negate this, then why not try it....

[rick130]

I have just replaced the aweful super hard dobbson springs in the rear of my 92 110 county . And removed the poked Load leveler at the same time .
I managed to find a set of 2nd hand factory HD 110 springs to replace them with .
As the springs are slightly differnt lenghts , Following the LR specification I have put the Red/Red (longer spring ) on the drivers side rear and the Red/green on the passengers side .

This has resulted in the rear of the truck leaning towards the passenger side noticibly .
Re-reading the LR specifion I have noticed that in the factory configuration with the load leveler and 180lb springs , that the longer spring of the pair (blue/blue) is supposed to be on passenger side ???

Is there a difference in suspension / chassis design between the 110's that came with the load leveler and those that diddnt ? meaning that LR put the longer spring on a different side ?

has anyone else come across this before ? do I just live with The slight lean or swap the HD springs side to side ?

Did you measure the free lengths before fitting ?

There should only be 1/2" difference in height.

[justinc]

The theory is not the same as the real world in LR's case.

I run 2 Red/Red OR 2 Red/Green, a mix of both causes the lean.

The Red/Red increases the vehicle lift by about 10mm.

Currently I have a pair of red/green, sits level and is a good height :)

JC

[asmit]

By the kings website KRRS-02 is front and KLRS-04 is rear standard height springs for a 1985 110 county station wagon with load leveler.
Shopping around, the KRRS-02 is easy to find, it's the same as the rear spring on range rover classic 150lb/in.
KLRS-04, not so easy, as of today when I called king springs, KLRS-04 for county rear with load leveler is no longer produced... He said 220lb/in spring rate on these and they have nothing similar.
KLRS-05 which is for models without load leveler, is 470lb/in he says.
They do still sell KLRR-05 which is the 470 spring rate, but raised.
Side note: OEM spec is 330lb/in for NRC6389 and NRC6904 (this would explain getting a bumpy ride changing from OEM to kings rears)
Fortunately NRC6389 and NRC7000 are available from the usual land rover suppliers and show 180lb/in spring rate, which is a lot less than that 470, so hopefully my 110 rides like a range rover ha ha. [biggrin]
I did check dobinsons and lovells catalogs, same deal, no one here makes the standard height rear coil in softie spec.
Maybe I will quickly find out why [bighmmm]

[Vern]

150lb in the front is pretty light. Assuming it's a V8 With no bullbar etc????
I run kings front, dobo rear. 210lb front, 318lb rear, isuzu, f&r bars etc..about 30-40mm lift though

[asmit]

Good point, I just took that 150 from red90 website.
I'm not certain which RRC coil is used in 110 front, do you know which one was used here?

I got info from Kings today, KRRS-02 is a 230lb/in spring rate, free height l/h 405mm r/h 415mm