Whoops - who forgot the landing gear

[Discomark]

LiveLeak.com - Onboard plane crash- no landing gear used, checklist fail !

[goingbush]

duh, Socata TB-20, wheels up warning buzzer, stall buzzer came in about right, why didnt he go round & read the checklist ?

if it was a known gear fault they should have landed on the grass

reminds me of trusting my Defender to a Landrover dealer

[Blknight.aus]

thats an amateurs attempt,

let me show you how the pros do it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/927.jpg

from

New images of C-17 wheels-up at Bagram (with video) (http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx?plckBlogId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogscript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%253A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%253Ac0e5e0d9-dcdd-46a6-ae75-100b39dabbe9)

[Cloud Basher]

goingbush,
You are a brave man I reckon stating what you have:D. Nope I have not yet landed wheels up, but I always refuse to bag pilots who do. The strip he was going into looked fairly short, it looked to be one way or at least have a fairly steep approach and departure at both ends. Easy to get distracted. I have had two mates now who have landed wheels up. Both of them beat themselves up heaps and both were what I would classify as very competent pilots with one having many thousands of hours and over 40 years of flying. They both admitted it was their own stupid fault, but it can happen to anyone of us if we are not on the ball ALL the time when flying.

As for the gear warning horn, very easy to tune out any warning horns or alarms as has been proven many many times in aircraft accidents all over the world, including some very famous multi-crew airline accidents.

I am not defending this guy, just stating "but there for the grace of god go I..."

Cheers
CB

[goingbush]

Agreed :blush:,
any landing you can walk away from is a good one

[PhilipA]

Many years ago, about 40 , the Chief Air Safety Inspector of the then DCA did that at Tullamarine.
I think it was a HS125.
Bit more costly than a littlun.
There were some red faces over that one.
Regards Philip A

[BigJon]

Agreed :blush:,
any landing you can walk away from is a good one

And if you can reuse the aircraft it is a great one!

[C00P]

Pilots of retractables fall into two groups:
(1) Those who have landed with their wheels up, and
(2) Those who will....
;)

Coop
(I fly one with fixed gear...)

[BigBlackDog]

I watched a mate who I'd trained land a light twin with the wheels up, worst bit about that is it was full of media people that blew the whole thing out of proportion, as they do. This guy was all over the plane, great procedures the lot, can happen to any one

...except me (obviously) :wasntme:

[tailslide]

Pilots of retractables fall into two groups:
(1) Those who have landed with their wheels up, and
(2) Those who will....
;)

Coop
(I fly one with fixed gear...)

I heard that quote from my instructor for my CS/RG endorsement, he should know as he had done two wheels up or so he told me...

Yes, I like the "Down and welded" check too. I have flown the Piper Arrow and Mooneys, the Arrow had a nice feature that it would automatically drop the landing gear if you had flaps out and anything less than about 25% throttle. I never got to use its capabilties for real.:D

Ron

[mbrosch]

This gear up landing has plenty of lessons for us all. In 35 years as a Flight Instructor I can confidently say that it can happen to anyone, but isn't it interesting that (it appeared) the headsets prevented the pilot from hearing the gear warning horn? Not the first accident/incident caused by the headset.

[stallie]

The other factor in some accidents is the gear warning horn is set at a too low manifold pressure to prevent it going off in flight at low power settings.

So if you forget the gear and do a nice stable approach easing off the power gradually and gently you don't get the horn until you are deep in the flare. Almost too late, and could be mistaken for the stall warning...

[GregTD5]

Sorry, I don't believe the "it can happen to anyone theory". Flying really isn't a hard skill to learn, but discipline is.
What about using the aircraft checklist prior to landing, or at least memorise a system to check that you have gear down.
How about conducting pre take-off, airborne, top of climb, top of descent, pre landing checks. Form some good habits when flying and you will avoid an expensive and embarrassing flight.
From my little knowledge of fixed wing flying, there is 2 dick head alarms when landing, one is the stall (aural) warning, the other is wheels down and locked (visual) green lights.
The military pilot, would of also been asked to confirm 3 green by ATC prior to landing.

Greg

[87County]

thats an amateurs attempt,

let me show you how the pros do it.

from

New images of C-17 wheels-up at Bagram (with video) (http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx?plckBlogId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogscript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%253A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%253Ac0e5e0d9-dcdd-46a6-ae75-100b39dabbe9)

they actually jury-rigged thta C17 sufficiently for flight - flew it back to the West Coast of the US and rebuilt it - not a bad effort

[BigBlackDog]

Greg, yes what you say is 100% true in that we have to have good habits etc. BUT, it does not take much to distract from these habits, even having someone sit next to you to talk too can be enough to forget simple stuff. Think about driving you land rover, its easy to go on autopilot and not be aware of whats really going on around you. Human factors they call it, deep and meaningful stuff.

That military one is a suprise though, they would have multiple pilots, multiple warnings systems to prevent that, be interesting report to read

[GregTD5]

Bigblackdog, yes I agree with you it easy to be distracted, that is why you need discipline and stick to a checklist of some sort. We call it Cockpit Resource Management (CRM) a great tool to have, even when flying alone.
For instructors to tell their students that they will have a wheels up landing is pretty poor. I just don't see how it can happen with the cockpit indications and a basic checklist.
Sure when driving the Landy we might switch off a bit, but i know i'm on the ball when i need to park it.

Greg

[BigBlackDog]

Yeah for sure, although it could be interesting to see the reaction when you tell them they WILL do a gear up one day! , but poor form instructing.

[Blknight.aus]

Is rather be told that its going to happen..

they never say it will be the students fault. Sometimes mechanical things just dont do as asked and you have to improvise around them.

Bit like skid pan training. You hope its something you never need to use because of what you're doing, nice to have it when you need it tho.

[VladTepes]

"You know your gear is up and locked when it takes full power to taxi to the terminal"

[Blknight.aus]

That military one is a suprise though, they would have multiple pilots, multiple warnings systems to prevent that, be interesting report to read

Summating from memory

It was a tactical approach under high stress conditions in a plane that normally flies itself flown by experience pilots. The landing error was essentially a case of too many warning alarms, too much to do, not enough time to do it in, the whole crew got fixated on doing the jobs that had to be done and everyone forgot to fly the plane and react to the warning systems.