Aftermarket A/C - 300Tdi dual cab

[rainman]

I've finally got to the point of my build where I'm installing the air conditioning. Having tossed the original under-dash evaporator because of it's relatively poor performance in anything bigger than a single cab and because of the room it takes away from the passenger footwell, I purchased a Formula King EV2208 unit from a local air conditioning specialist. If you do a quick search you'll find it cheaper on the internet, but I paid the $495 the local place was asking to keep them on side, especially considering they are going to be running the pipes and getting it going for me.

The unit
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/592.jpg

With top bracket installed
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/593.jpg

With rear bracket installed
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/594.jpg

The remote control
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/595.jpg

Firstly I should point out what I'm starting with.

It's a 1995 130 300Tdi dual cab. I have retained everything under the bonnet at this point. Eventually a new receiver/drier will be fitted but I'm hopeful that the compressor, condenser, and condenser fan are in working order. Assuming they are, the local A/C place quoted approximately $600 to supply and fit receiver/drier, plumb, gas, and finish under bonnet wiring. Of course, something will go wrong so I'm fully prepared for more :angel:.

Another point to make is that I have a custom roof lining, which is simply 20mm foam glued directly to the roof and covered in marine carpet which makes for a LOT more space overhead. I also have a custom console above the windscreen where the controls will be mounted.

Stay tuned :cool:,
James.

[EchiDna]

where do you plan to mount it? on the roof? under the rear seat? I've seen similar actually installed above the rear door (on 110 wagons)

[rick130]

I'd suggest a better condenser too.

The standard one is a Sanden MFC-2068AE, which is just a universal, off the shelf unit, and IMO the fin pitch is too small (fin spacing too close/very high FPI) which doesn't allow good airflow through the coil.
In a Deefer the air tends to pack up in front and not flow through as the air pressure in the engine bay is relatively high.

If you can find one wider and taller with a lower fin pitch, it would work better and place less strain on the engine cooling system, or alternatively vent the engine bay with a cutout in the LH guard as Serg/uninformed did on his 110 ute.

[rainman]

where do you plan to mount it? on the roof? under the rear seat? I've seen similar actually installed above the rear door (on 110 wagons)

Hi EchiDna. After much deliberation over many years, I've decided to mount it on the roof above the back seat. The big plus is that it's in the right place. Hot air rises so it will be drawing the warmer air, and the cooled air will fall. The EV2208 doesn't quite fit under the seat but I probably could have made it happen somehow. The biggest problem I saw with it in that location is ducting the air. There's virtually no way of getting it up to a high point in the cabin without obstructing windows. With the unit on the roof, there will be one small "duct" with the two gas lines and the water drain running up one of the rear pillars. The roof location does limit head room for the centre rear passenger a little, but I'm 5'9" and I still have an inch or two to spare, and given that most of the time my 1'9" dog will be the only rear passenger it shouldn't be an issue.


I'd suggest a better condenser too.

The standard one is a Sanden MFC-2068AE, which is just a universal, off the shelf unit, and IMO the fin pitch is too small (fin spacing too close/very high FPI) which doesn't allow good airflow through the coil.
In a Deefer the air tends to pack up in front and not flow through as the air pressure in the engine bay is relatively high.

If you can find one wider and taller with a lower fin pitch, it would work better and place less strain on the engine cooling system, or alternatively vent the engine bay with a cutout in the LH guard as Serg/uninformed did on his 110 ute.

Rick, as always you are a wealth of information ;). I will discuss condenser options with the A/C place when I take it to get plumbed up. I have a feeling my existing one is going to be cactus anyway (just a hunch).

As for the guard vent - it was on the list after I installed my VNT, but I had forgotten about it of late. I have admired Serg's vent in the past (:wacko:). I actually found some mesh in my junk store a few days ago; this week end perhaps.....

James.

[rick130]

[snip]

I have admired Serg's vent in the past (:wacko:).

[snip]
James.


:eek:




:Rolling:

I'm sure he'll be chuffed ;)

[rainman]

A little more progress has been made.

I was having all sorts of trouble finding a "neat" location for the control, when my wife came along and suggested I pull it apart. I'm finding more and more with things that I do that it really helps to get a fresh perspective (thanks honey :thumbsup:).

So, instead of using the whole "box" (pic in the first post of this thread) I removed the two separate units (I guess they are rheostats?), and mounted them into the blanking panel on my roof console. While I was at it, I also mounted the MP3 player holder that had been lying around for a while.

Before:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/236.jpg

After:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/538.jpg

The duct for the air will run right up to the centre of the console, so the wiring will be able to sneak through there. Once the A/C is in the stereo head unit will fill the hole on the right hand side.

Now to the mounting of the evaporator - I've used four M6 nutserts into the most rear roof bow. Four could be overkill, but the mounting bracket had provision for them so I figure it's better to be safe that sorry, and better to spread the load across a wide section of the roof. A single M6 nutsert also went into the inside roof gutter, dead centre at the rear, for the vertical rear bracket. A picture is always worth a thousand words:

Nutserts, inserted:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/539.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/540.jpg

I do love nutserts; such a brilliant idea :cool:.

Hopefully more progress will be made this week end amidst the headlight relays installation and the mesh going onto the headboard.


James

[VladTepes]

Brilliant - watching this with interest.


Does this mean that ALL the rubbish in the passengers footwell can be ditched and all you have is the new A/C unit in cab and the underbonnet stuff?

Why the giant condensors you see on some aftermarket installs? (or does your plan have one too?)

What's your ballpark estimate for the whole job? (including the parts and labour)
I ask because my aircon is cactus, my lady demands air con, and I dont want to spend money on fixing the existing unit if it can go towards a better setup like this.

I found the following info on, of all places, an Alfa forum. (Seems they get sick of cool knees and poor air con as well)


Formula King, 12V, Jayair P/N EV2208. Produces 18,000 BTU's, & 310 F3/min air flow. Enough to cool a mini bus. This unit only produces cooling . If you need to cool and heat a unit like the EV2213 would do but it is only rated at 12,000BTU

which got me thinking whether a heater one would be useful.. The heater wouldn't get much use in Brisbane (none probably) but could be handy when heading up to Toowoomba or down into NSW in the winter. Hmmmm

[rainman]

Brilliant - watching this with interest.


Does this mean that ALL the rubbish in the passengers footwell can be ditched and all you have is the new A/C unit in cab and the underbonnet stuff?

Why the giant condensors you see on some aftermarket installs? (or does your plan have one too?)

What's your ballpark estimate for the whole job? (including the parts and labour)
I ask because my aircon is cactus, my lady demands air con, and I dont want to spend money on fixing the existing unit if it can go towards a better setup like this.

Hi Vlad.

Yes - I have nothing left below the dash and in the passenger footwell (and no more holes in the firewall to rust up ;)). The condenser is the bit in front of the radiator, like another small radiator. The evaporator is the bit inside. From memory the EV2208 evaporator that I am using is about 400mm wide, 325mm deep, and 160mm high so there's still "enough" head room for the occasional centre rear passenger.

All up I'm looking at around $1100 utilising the existing compressor and condenser, with me mounting the unit, and doing the wiring up to the firewall, and then the A/C specialist doing the plumbing, gassing, replacing the receiver/drier, and finishing the wiring. On top of this there will be the material cost of the ducting that I'm making to run along the centre of the roof, but that's probably going to amount to less than $100 worth of 1.2mm aluminium sheet, rivets and screws, some vinyl, and a few air diffusers. I'm fully prepared for more costs like a new condenser though. I've spent the past three years and tens of thousands building this vehicle exactly how I want it so there's no point skimping now :cool:.

Like you, air conditioning is "high on the list". The standard unit I had in my previous Defender, a 110 single cab, only just kept up so having stripped my current 130 as soon as I bought it and never having got to try it's effectiveness in a dual cab, I figure it won't be enough. The evaporator in my 110 started leaking gas many, many years before I sold the car and I never bothered to have it fixed because it wasn't worth the cost.


James.

[GyroLandy]

"I've spent the past three years and tens of thousands building this vehicle exactly how I want it so there's no point skimping now":D

Sounds exactly like me. Done just about everything I wanted and what irritated me and am also now down to the aircon. Have been looking at the same head unit but haven't figured out the ducting and pipes to the roof

[Lotz-A-Landies]

What is the comparison of the EV2208 and the original underdash units that were used OEM in the 78-85 RR classics?

Just wondering as I have two of the RRc and one of the Defender under dash ones.

[goingbush]

Also watching with interest,

have Minister of Finance approval to fix A/C, when I suggested that more leg /foot room will result this job was been given the go ahead.

[EchiDna]

stupid question - I know the ADR's require a heater for demist purposes in vehicles. if you installed a heat/cool aircon system in place of the factory original heating system, would it need engineering?

[rainman]

What is the comparison of the EV2208 and the original underdash units that were used OEM in the 78-85 RR classics?

Just wondering as I have two of the RRc and one of the Defender under dash ones.

Hi Diana. I've just been looking around for the for the EV2008 spec ('cause I'd forgotten) and was having a bit of trouble until I realised Vlad posted it earlier. It's 18000 BTU and flows 310cubic feet/min. As for what the spec is of the original Defender and RRC units........ :unsure:, anyone?


stupid question - I know the ADR's require a heater for demist purposes in vehicles. if you installed a heat/cool aircon system in place of the factory original heating system, would it need engineering?

That is a good point EchiDna. I do know that some of the Lotus/Caterham Seven replica guys have used 12V hair driers mounted under the dash and passed ADRs so perhaps the ruling isn't too specific. Of course, it doesn't apply in my case as I'm retaining the original heater. Formula King does have a range of heat/cool evaporator units but as heat wasn't necessary for me, I was able to have a smaller unit with the same cooling capacity as a combined one.


James.

[rainman]

Ok, so only a little progress was made over the week end due to a couple of other little projects being completed.

Firstly, the main bracket in place with four M6 stainless bolts:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/324.jpg

Next up the rear bracket which mounts to inner roof channel needed to be trimmed down and bent to shape. The cut end was touched up with some primer to seal it up.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/325.jpg

Then, the magic moment.....

Evaporator mounted:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/326.jpg

The next job will be to extend the wiring from the front mounted remote as presently it's around 750mm short.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/327.jpg

James.

[EchiDna]

That is a good point EchiDna. I do know that some of the Lotus/Caterham Seven replica guys have used 12V hair driers mounted under the dash and passed ADRs so perhaps the ruling isn't too specific. Of course, it doesn't apply in my case as I'm retaining the original heater. Formula King does have a range of heat/cool evaporator units but as heat wasn't necessary for me, I was able to have a smaller unit with the same cooling capacity as a combined one.


James.

looking forward to the rest of the install, I'll be doing very similar down the track no doubt!

[rick130]

If anyone is interested I found some pics on my HD today of the red Dot installation behind the cubby box someone did (and for the life of me I can't remember who it was ?)

[TonyC]

If anyone is interested I found some pics on my HD today of the red Dot installation behind the cubby box someone did (and for the life of me I can't remember who it was ?)

Yes please Rick

Tony

[rick130]

Sorry for the hijack James.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=51525&stc=1&d=1348560447

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=51526&stc=1&d=1348560447

[rainman]

Sorry for the hijack James.

All in keeping with the subject Rick! This is what it's all about - ideas, knowledge sharing, experience, opinions, etc. Thanks for the pics :).

...... and on the subject of knowledge sharing, we have a rival project :cool:! goingbush is about to install a different, slightly bigger unit into the rear of a TD5 110 wagon:

Aftermarket A/C - Td5 110 Wagon (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/159715-aftermarket-c-td5-110-wagon.html)


Now I'm watching with interest ;)!
James.

[TonyC]

Hi All,
Does anyone know the rating of the under dash Defender AC unit? Other not much and very little:angel:
The one Rainman is using is 18000 BTUs and 310 (cubic?)F/minute
The one Goingbush is using is 22500 BTU, 390 cfm.

Tony

[goingbush]

Hi All,
Does anyone know the rating of the under dash Defender AC unit? Other not much and very little:angel:
The one Rainman is using is 18000 BTUs and 310 (cubic?)F/minute
The one Goingbush is using is 22500 BTU, 390 cfm.

Tony

My A/C man said the Td5 factory underdash unit is 11000 BTU CFM not known



.

[rainman]

I'm afraid progress has slowed a little simply due to time restraints. The progress that has been made is pretty boring, being just wiring.

The first thing was to extend the wiring from the evaporator to reach the front mounted controls.

Fairly straight forward. I almost had the right colours - green becomes yellow (for the compressor solenoid):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1487.jpg

The earth wire to the controls was originally separate and there was a spare socket in the plugs so I couldn't see any reason why it couldn't be included.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1488.jpg

The earth wire from the controls bolted to the rear mount. I will running an earth wire from here to the chassis:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1489.jpg

Now the tricky bit (for me anyway). I've placed two relays in the battery box (actually the relays from the original A/C system).

The first is for the compressor solenoid. My local A/C place which is completing the installation told me to just run "a wire" into the engine bay. I am going to assume they will activate both the compressor solenoid and the condenser fan off this wire. However, the relay is the type with two 87 terminals so the option is there to run two separate wires.

The second relay I am using to activate 12 volt power to the evaporator/fan power switch when the ignition is "on" (so the A/C can't be switch on when the engine is off). As to where exactly I'm getting the activation from right at this point isn't clear to me. I'm thinking I need to tap into one of the white wires that is the ignition switch side of the fuses for things such as the gauges, tail/reverse lights, etc. I'm really trying to avoid going up behind the dash because I'm very over feed wiring through there :mad:. Any advice or opinions will be gratefully received.

The 12V power to both relays is taken directly from the main battery (through fuses of course). Yes, I earthed the relays where the bracket bolts to the battery box, but this is just the earth for the activation of the relays, so only a small amount current. Please do tell if this isn't sufficient. I'm earthing the evaporator on the chassis where the batteries earth and the gearbox cross member bolts on, just outside the battery box

The relays and fuse box in the battery box:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1490.jpg

Before I sign off, special mention goes to goingbush for completing his TD5 A/C installation (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/159715-aftermarket-c-td5-110-wagon.html) today, in as little as a week and a half (!), with better than expected results. I'm more inspired now :cool:.

James.

[goingbush]

The earth wire to the controls was originally separate and there was a spare socket in the plugs so I couldn't see any reason why it couldn't be included.

Now the tricky bit (for me anyway). I've placed two relays in the battery box (actually the relays from the original A/C system).

The first is for the compressor solenoid. My local A/C place which is completing the installation told me to just run "a wire" into the engine bay. I am going to assume they will activate both the compressor solenoid and the condenser fan off this wire. However, the relay is the type with two 87 terminals so the option is there to run two separate wires.

The second relay I am using to activate 12 volt power to the evaporator/fan power switch when the ignition is "on" (so the A/C can't be switch on when the engine is off). As to where exactly I'm getting the activation from right at this point isn't clear to me. I'm thinking I need to tap into one of the white wires that is the ignition switch side of the fuses for things such as the gauges, tail/reverse lights, etc. I'm really trying to avoid going up behind the dash because I'm very over feed wiring through there :mad:. Any advice or opinions will be gratefully received.

Not being familiar with the Tdi electrics I cant help specifically but you are doing everything correctly, any
+12v IGN source will do, the energiser coil of the relay wont add any load to the system.




The 12V power to both relays is taken directly from the main battery (through fuses of course). Yes, I earthed the relays where the bracket bolts to the battery box, but this is just the earth for the activation of the relays, so only a small amount current. Please do tell if this isn't sufficient. I'm earthing the evaporator on the chassis where the batteries earth and the gearbox cross member bolts on, just outside the battery box


All looking good.
Dont forget about putting a High Pressure cut off switch in series with the compressor clutch, Worth asking your A/C guy about it, but he probably has that covered .

Great work !!

.

[rainman]

Dont forget about putting a High Pressure cut off switch in series with the compressor clutch, Worth asking your A/C guy about it, but he probably has that covered .

Would this be what the wiring and plug hanging off the top of the receiver drier is?

James.

[goingbush]

Would this be what the wiring and plug hanging off the top of the receiver drier is?

James.


Exactly, that is the pressure cut off switch.

on the factory Td5 A/C its hidden under the Evaporator,

[weeds]

hey rainman.....install completed yet?

[rainman]

Hi. Sorry everyone. Lots of "challenges"/things going on. Life........

Progress with the A/C is being made however. The Defender is, today, at the A/C place having the plumbing done. They say they'll need it for a few days, but I'll be sure to report back with photos and test results ASAP :cool:.

James.

[weeds]

flexible hose or pipe?

[rainman]

flexible hose or pipe?

Ah yes. I did quiz him about that. It will be flexible hose like in goingbush's installation. Apparently that's all they use these days because the time and therefore the cost of bending up metal tubing is too prohibitive these days.

James.

[rainman]

I'm really sorry things have quietened down in this thread. I've had a lot going on, and my camera has been playing up so I don't have many pictures to add.

Anyway, the system was plumbed and gassed up last week by Mr Cool at Milton in Brisbane. My compressor, condenser, and thermofan were fine. The performance is perhaps not quite as impressive as goingbush's but still more than satisfactory :cool:.


A couple of tests I have done:

Car parked in sun for 1 hour; internal temp 32 degrees; A/C turned on to fan speed 2 and temp rheostat set at about 65%. After 5 minutes internal temp was 26 degrees.

Car driven out of garage and A/C turned on to fan speed 2 and temp 65%; outside air temp 34 degrees. After 10 mins of driving interior temp was 20 degrees.


So, the system is working and fully usable, despite the ducting not being in place. In fact, the air from the unit seems to be directed very much upwards towards the roof so the front passengers don't get a cold neck like I expected. The air hits the windscreen and falls downwards from there so you really only feel it on your legs. I have, however, begun fabricating the ducting so will post up pictures soon (when I can take some decent ones).

The cost of the system to date:
Evaporator with control and mounting bracket - $495
Installation/plumbing/engine bay wiring, incl new receiver/drier - $1016
Bearing for bottom idler pulley - $5
Wiring, split tubing, connectors, etc - approx $20

Total - $1536

Estimate of my time is 6-7 hours.

I guess this is on par with goingbush's installation taking into account the fact that he did a lot more of the work himself. I could have knocked about $200 off the price of the evaporator by purchasing it online, but decided to do the right thing my Mr Cool and purchase through them. At least this way any potential warranty issue should be easier to address too.

A few shots of the hoses inside the cab....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/274.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/275.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/276.jpg

James.

[goingbush]

Hey James,
well done and well worth doing. For $1500 its a bargain compared to what you might spend on other A/C fixes and about $15,000++ cheaper than buying a Puma (one other way to get a better A/C)

Noted the insulation around the hoses, did Mr Cool do that ?, not a bad idea.

Also agree even without ducts we dont feel cold on the back of our necks either (well we have recaros - no air could get on our neck anyway) and it does have the impression the cold air is coming from the front, thats convection at its best - something that the standard A/C or even a Puma AC could never hope to do - the entire interior is cooled.

In actual driving have yet to have the fan on 2 and the temp past about 10%
I think mine is an overkill, big test will be up north in Summer .

For anyone contemplating spending money on their Defender A/C you could easily blow $1500 trying to get your standard system working but it would never be a patch on one of these overhead evaporators.

Thanks again for the Tutorial, I'f I hadn't read it I'd still have the crappy original A/C in mine.

cheers Don

[rainman]

Noted the insulation around the hoses, did Mr Cool do that ?, not a bad idea.

Hi Don,

Yes that was all Mr Cool's work. They've insulated the whole lot, right through under the body to the engine bay. I'll take some more photos when the camera is operable :cool:.

James.

[armandnel]

Hi james

I also own a 300tdi twin cab with very average aircon

I live in Central Qld and want to know if you think your aircon install will hold up to the high temps up here? Should I go for the bigger unit with twin motors or do you reckon the same as yours will do?

Thanks for all the pics and posts

Armani

[rainman]

Hi Armani,

I would say my unit (the EV2208) would be fine for warmer climates. I haven't had to use anything other than the first fan speed in normal use so far, and I generally have the temperature set at about 65%. Still, goingbush paid less for his 22500 BTU unit than I did for my 18000 BTU unit because he bought online. Have a look around on eBay and the Speedy Air Spares (http://speedyairspares.com.au/catalog/Evaporators_Under_Dash_Units-2-1.html) site.

James.

[armandnel]

Good man.
Thanx for that feedback.

[goingbush]

I might add that the unit James used is probably more suited to a Defender,

Wev'e had some warmer days down here now in the low 30's and I've been able to test mine out a bit better. Even on the lowest setting mine is a LOT colder than the standard A/C ever hoped to be on full blast, To the point that I have to keep turning the thermostat off & just have the fan running as it gets too cold.

hopefully once we head north west we will find a happy medium.

[rainman]

Wow :). That's some serious cooling Don. Armani, just in case you're not aware, goingbush's unit is in a 110 wagon so he has at least 50% more interior volume to cool as well.

James.

[rainman]

So, the latest on my air conditioning is that I haven't made any progress on the ducting in the past week and a half, but to make matters worse it has stopped working! The fan still works, but it is just blowing ambient temperature air.

I first checked the two fuses (12V supply and feed to compressor) and then confirmed that the corresponding relays were still activating. My next assumption was that the condenser had probably leaked, meaning there was no gas left in the system, but the compressor was still activated when the fan was switched on, and still deactivated if the temperature control was turned down to the minimum. I stuck the multimeter across the pressure switch to be sure, and it's still "on"/"active" so I guess I still have gas (in more ways than one ;)).

Next I unplugged the temperature rheostat and checked the resistance - 12.2 ohms in the maximum position down to 14.5 ohms just before the minimum position, where it then goes to open circuit. I don't know if those figures are correct, but at least that shows it's still working in a manner that you would expect.

My next step was to ring Mr Cool :). They said they'd just prefer to see the vehicle rather than trying to diagnose the problem over the phone, which is fair enough, so it goes back tomorrow.

My suspicion is that it's the main control unit behind the fan control. I'm not sure what it does, but it seemed to activate and deactivate something in the evaporator unit to control the temperature. It used to click on and off, but sometimes make a buzzing sound when doing so, which didn't seem right to me.

Anyway, hopefully about this time tomorrow we will know.....

James.

[rainman]

The issue is, plain and simple, a leak. There was still enough gas in the system to keep the pressure switch active, but not enough to do any cooling. Despite there being UV dye in the system, it's not obvious where the leak is so Mr Cool has replaced the o-ring on one of the compressor fittings (the other fitting is seized on :mad:) and re-gassed the system with a bit more dye and I am to just keep running it and take it back as soon as it stops working again.

James.

[goingbush]

thats no good, I would have thought it the switch too with a buzzing sound,
must have been a loud buzzing to hear it over the 300.

I dont think you can see the a/c dye with your eyes, you need a UV light or UV LED Torch and look for leaks in the dark.

hope all is good this time round.

[rainman]

Hi Don,


thats no good, I would have thought it the switch too with a buzzing sound,
must have been a loud buzzing to hear it over the 300.

:) I have insulation.


I dont think you can see the a/c dye with your eyes, you need a UV light or UV LED Torch and look for leaks in the dark.

Yes. I guess they want me to take it back as soon as it stops working again so they can look for traces of it because they couldn't find any yesterday. I'm wondering if my condenser is leaking and the drive up to the Sunshine Coast and back on Saturday in the rain washed the dye off.

Hats off to Mr Cool for the work they did yesterday - no charge :cool:.

I got a few hour's work in on the ducting last night, but still haven't got around to fixing my camera. Tonight - I could fix the camera, I could work on the ducting, I could fix my leaking P-gasket, or I could succumb to Weeds' offer of going mountain biking :(.

James.

[pjlhat]

Thanks for a very ineresting thread, unfortunately I will have to put up with my underdash unit haveing just spent up on a engine and GB rebuild.
Just prior to the rebuild the AC stopped working. I have traced the problem to lack of activating power getting to the AC relay under the pass/seat that you utilised early in the thread. Not sure why you did not use the wire from the harness when looking for power, maybe it was like mine, no longer active!!!:( Does anyone know where this relay gets its power from it is a red wire from the relay into the harness via another red wire. I presume it gets its power from the large white wire out of the ignition switch but can not find the connection where I presume the problem will be:angel:
Peter

[rainman]

Hi Peter,

I removed all of the original A/C wiring over three years ago when I pulled the vehicle apart to start the restoration, and, most probably due to excess home-brew consumption during the rebuild, have no idea how it was wired up originally.

James.

[rainman]

Well, the 130 has been back to Mr Cool again. As with last time, the gas lasted about three weeks. Mr Cool's instructions were to take it back as soon as it stopped working so I was there first thing Monday. Again, they could not find the leak. It seems that the UV dye works with the oil in the system, so if you have a tiny gas leak and no oil comes out with it, it is possible to find no traces of the dye.

Anyway, the next step was to replace the two flexible hoses to the compressor, and rebuild/reseal the compressor. Mr Cool has a "factory" (their words) based in their workshop that reconditions compressors and send them Australia wide, so they were able to do it on the spot. So, another $700 down, I am now hopeful of a reliable system.

Again, big thanks to Mr Cool for taking the 130 straight in when they were obviously absolutely stretched with the sudden onslaught of summer here in Brisbane. So far I'm up to around $2200 spent, but the only original component left now is the condenser. I suppose the only words of wisdom I can give are don't ever think you are going to necessarily resurrect your 10 - 20 year old A/C system on a shoestring budget. You might be lucky, but need to be prepared for the worst case.

As for the progress with the ducting........... :whistling:. Virtually none has been made, but I will post up when I have something worthy.

James.

[weeds]

How's the AC holding up???

[rainman]

It's doing well thanks Weeds :) - still working, but we're still in the danger period for the gas leak to reappear.

I actually started looking at the ducting again last night and worked out a few things in my head, but then it was dinner time and I never got back there. Fingers crossed for the week end, although there is some big all day Christmas party thing on Sunday :rolleyes:.

James.

[weeds]

It's doing well thanks Weeds :) - still working, but we're still in the danger period for the gas leak to reappear.

I actually started looking at the ducting again last night and worked out a few things in my head, but then it was dinner time and I never got back there. Fingers crossed for the week end, although there is some big all day Christmas party thing on Sunday :rolleyes:.

James.

will miss the xmas party as i will be having a beer at double island point.........

[goingbush]

It's doing well thanks Weeds :) - still working, but we're still in the danger period for the gas leak to reappear.

I actually started looking at the ducting again last night and worked out a few things in my head, but then it was dinner time and I never got back there. Fingers crossed for the week end, although there is some big all day Christmas party thing on Sunday :rolleyes:.

James.

Hey James, I was snooping around at the back of the local electrical wholesalers and saw their shelf full of electrical & pipe duct fittings , usually used to run the pipework and electrical cables of split system A/C on the outside of a building.
I'm thinking that would be really easy to make some roof ductwork with those parts, especially the convoluted tube. e.g..
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/503.jpg

cheers Don

[rainman]

Don, I'm a sucker for punishment :(. I always do things the hardest and most complex way possible because, it seems, I like making my life a misery. Here are a couple of very poor shots of what I have done so far. The larger piece covers the evaporator at the rear. The other piece is the front; just the centre section to go. It's all 1.2mm aluminium.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/500.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/501.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/502.jpg

James.

[goingbush]

It is a work of art, no less. :BigThumb:

[rainman]

It is a work of art, no less. :BigThumb:

Oh Don :unsure:. Thank you for your ongoing support.

It's not really. It just pure persistence, with a lot of swearing and home brew thrown into the mix.

James.

[rainman]

So I've decided to get my condenser fan working. The Tdi has been running a tad hot these summer days, especially on the highway with the A/C on so I'm working on doing what I can to improve air flow.

A quick test of the fan showed it was working fine so I wired it in from the feed to the compressor relay from the pressure switch, meaning that it shares the fuse and relay with the compressor. It was working wonderfully and the engine temperature was probably a little cooler, but alas it was short lived. The 15A fuse blew.

I checked the wiring (4 mm) and there is no sign of damage to the insulation so would anyone like to hazard a guess as to whether I should go to a 20A fuse? goingbush measured the current draw on his fan as over 10A (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/159715-aftermarket-c-td5-110-wagon-2.html#post1771667) and he used a 30A fuse in this location. I also haven't used diodes as he did. I'm just being extra cautious because electrics aren't my strongest skill and I'd rather not have to discharge my fire extinguisher ;).

James.

P.S. I have made some progress on the ducting in the past few days and am hoping to start upholstering it this week end so will have some pictures up shortly.

[steveG]

If you check out the standard wiring diagram the fan will likely have its own circuit with appropriately rated fuse.

Steve

[rainman]

If you check out the standard wiring diagram the fan will likely have its own circuit with appropriately rated fuse.

:) Thanks Steve. Yeah - logical stuff that one should have thought of himself. I'm not sure if the A/C is in the diagram because it was an Australian dealer fitment on the Tdi, but I will certainly have a look.

James.

[steveG]

:) Thanks Steve. Yeah - logical stuff that one should have though of himself. I'm not sure if the A/C is in the diagram because it was an Australian dealer fitment on the Tdi, but I will certainly have a look.

James.

If not, I'd think the D1 300tdi fan would be the similar (if not exactly the same), and they were factory fit.

Steve

[rainman]

After blowing a 20A fuse I have gone to a 30A. With only one 10 minute test so far I have managed to not burn the vehicle to the ground so all is well. I checked the wiring immediately afterwards and there was no heat detectable. As my knowledgeable father-in-law has pointed out, perhaps the compressor clutch kicking in gives a spike in load on the circuit rather than a continuous draw. I'll keep a close eye (and nose) on it in the near future.

On the ducting - good progress was make on the week end and I am finally trimming it. Typically, I am going to have to install the sound system at the same time because I won't be able to slide the head unit into position with the ducting in place, so I'm madly trying to piece together the schematics for that. Anyway, all good fun.

The three sections dummy mounted (yes - rather imposing in bare aluminium):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/974.jpg

The front section foam covered. I'm re-using packaging foam (waste not want not ;)):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/975.jpg

The front section complete :banana:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/976.jpg

James.

[Ranga]

Nice work :)

Have you had a chance to test the demisting capabilities, particularly with the current weather up here?

[rainman]

Nice work :)

Have you had a chance to test the demisting capabilities, particularly with the current weather up here?

Hi Ranga,

The demisting was excellent without the ducting in place because the air was blown across the roof straight at the windscreen. I haven't really had the chance to try it out with the ducting in place because I guess when demisting would have been required lately I would have already had the A/C on. I'd say it won't be as effective though because you can't direct the air at the windscreen with the positioning of the diffusers.

But! You have just given me an idea. I could put another diffuser in the middle at the front, angled forward toward the windscreen. Thanks Ranga!:ehigh5:.

James.

P.S. I should have the final speaker mounts at the rear done over the next few days so I will get some photos up of the finished product.

[rainman]

I'm really sorry it has taken so long to get the final shots up. I wanted to have the stereo in so it looks complete, rather than having speaker holes everywhere.

Since the compressor rebuild the system has run flawlessly. The only issue I have now is that the thermofan has stopped working again which is probably because it has died of old age. It's no big deal, and I'll get around to replacing it soon (or maybe later).

So here it is:

Inside the ducting. The vents on the sides at the rear are for air intake. The vertical pieces directly in front on them divide the "intake side" and "output side", to prevent and possible recirculation inside the ducting.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/940.jpg


Complete and installed.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/941.jpg
(I am working on covering the hoses, but other jobs prevail at this point.)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/942.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/943.jpg

Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone who followed and gave their advice and opinions :twobeers:

James.

[steveG]

As Goingbush said earlier "That is a work of art".

How did you attach the duct to the roof? I saw where you'd used nutserts for the evaporator bracket, but didn't see how the duct stays up there.

Steve

[Ranga]

Very nicely done! Most importantly, how much to do mine?! :angel:

[jakeslouw]

rainman's A/C project will be the inspiration for my 109 ute's aircon........

[rainman]

As Goingbush said earlier "That is a work of art".

How did you attach the duct to the roof? I saw where you'd used nutserts for the evaporator bracket, but didn't see how the duct stays up there.

Thanks Steve :).

There are two Nutserts on the angled brackets that the old roof lining attached to above the back window (chrome bolt heads exposed), two Nutserts in the main roof hoop above the B-pillars (bolts accessed through the rear vents and interior light hole), and one Nutsert into the central roof strut/brace right at the front, which is accessed through the removable front panel.


Very nicely done! Most importantly, how much to do mine?! :angel:

Thank you Ranga. I don't think you could afford it :p. It took me, like, forever...... ;)

James.

[Ranga]

Hi mate - still happy with the install? If so, would appreciate the opportunity to come a have a look at it all.

[Trout]

I installed same unit in my 110. My install is not so neat :(. It works very well though. Way better than the standard air con. I installed mine just behind the cargo barrier and sitting in the front seat you would swear that the air was coming from the vents in the front. Keeps the car nice and cold even on the hottest day. If you lived somewhere really hot i would consider going the next size up as above 40c it works ok but I like it icy ;) However mine is also too cold even on the lowest setting on warm days so you have to keep turning it off.

[rainman]

Hi mate - still happy with the install? If so, would appreciate the opportunity to come a have a look at it all.

Hi Ranga,

Still very happy. PM me when you have a chance to come out for a look.

James.

[VladTepes]

I'd love that, or more to the point my missus would love that, but the $ wouldn't sadly.

[VladTepes]

Found this link with comparative specs for those interested:

w ww.highgateair.com.au/images/stories/products-pdf/Evaporators.pdf (http://w ww.highgateair.com.au/images/stories/products-pdf/Evaporators.pdf)


http://www.highgateair.com.au/images/stories/products-pdf/Evaporators.pdf

[Trout]

The other great thing about this mod is the extra space you gain in the passenger footwell and no more sloshing noises from the water that I could not get to drain out from the standard air con evaporator. It was also very satisfying pulling out that pile of junk that masqerading as air con.

[Becnadam]

I've read a few pages and this seems like a whole lot of heart ache and pain ? I don't have air con and no existing pipe work compressors etc and I would really like AC. Is there an option where I can buy a kit and it pops in with little effort? I know LR air con isn't going to blow my hair off like a toyota but surely it would cool down a dual cab??
Any suggestions greatly appreciated it's a 1996 tdi.

[Ranga]

I've read a few pages and this seems like a whole lot of heart ache and pain ? I don't have air con and no existing pipe work compressors etc and I would really like AC. Is there an option where I can buy a kit and it pops in with little effort? I know LR air con isn't going to blow my hair off like a toyota but surely it would cool down a dual cab??
Any suggestions greatly appreciated it's a 1996 tdi.

You can buy my genuine LR unit when I pull it out...

[rainman]

I've read a few pages and this seems like a whole lot of heart ache and pain ? I don't have air con and no existing pipe work compressors etc and I would really like AC. Is there an option where I can buy a kit and it pops in with little effort? I know LR air con isn't going to blow my hair off like a toyota but surely it would cool down a dual cab??
Any suggestions greatly appreciated it's a 1996 tdi.

Hi Becnadam,

I've had both single cab and a dual cab Tdi's and when it was working, the standard A/C was really only good enough for the single cab. Having had the Formula King EV2208 evaporator for a couple of years now, I would say it's just enough for a dual cab. For a wagon I would go bigger, as goingbush did in his TD5 (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/Aftermarket A/C - Td5 110 Wagon).

I don't know of any "kit" as such but you can just buy all of the pieces. Starting without an existing system is no big deal. The only pieces of my original system which didn't end up being reconditioned or replaced were the solid tubes in the engine bay. The only bits specific to a Tdi should be the compressor bracket and the belt tensioner and they should be easily sourced from other forum members. The usual tubing in the engine bay would just be supplemented with the flexible hose. It seems after market systems are just done with flexible hose these days because it's must quicker to install. Depending on how handy you are, you could mount the components in place, run the hoses, do the wiring, and then take it to your local car air conditioning place to make the hose connections and gas it up.

Here are a couple of online suppliers, but there are plenty of others around:

Automotive Airconditioning Parts Distributors (http://www.autoairparts.com.au/)
Swish Auto Parts - Swish Auto Parts Swish Auto Parts (http://www.swishautoparts.com.au/)

If you need any specific advice on parts, feel free to post any questions up here. It all adds to the wealth of knowledge that is AULRO ;).

James.

[SavingTheDefender]

I want to say a sincere "thank you" to everyone who has contributed to this thread. After dropping more than a little coin trying to get my under dash system to do the impossible, it's out and a 22,000BTU system is on the workbench. A new condensor is headed onto the roof rack, and ducting is a WIP.

Cheers,

Mathew

[rainman]

I want to say a sincere "thank you" to everyone who has contributed to this thread. After dropping more than a little coin trying to get my under dash system to do the impossible, it's out and a 22,000BTU system is on the workbench. A new condensor is headed onto the roof rack, and ducting is a WIP.

:) Thanks Matthew. It makes it all worth it when you see others learning from your own experiences. Good luck with it, and of course feel free to post up any questions.

James.

[VladTepes]

You can buy my genuine LR unit when I pull it out...

Why? You going with an aftermarket solution too, or just never use it?

[Ranga]

Probably both,

[VladTepes]

James - how's the air con working out?


I find my factory unit has given up the ghost - again.


Could be a hard sell to the missus to pay for it but I am certainly investigating the hint of a possibility of doing this. :lol2:

[rainman]

It's going really well, thanks Vlad. There's not much else I can say; it just works, well.

James.