World Heritage for Cape York Peninsula

[wally]

The wilderness and biodiversity values of Cape York Peninsula are so much more valuable than any benefits that will come from mining there. Sign the petition:

https://secure.wilderness.org.au/HTML_emails/message.php'mid=6254&utm_source=phplist&utm_medium=cyberaction&&utm_campaign=petition_notice_6254&utm_content=readonline&email=cwallace@westnet.com.au&u=294656

[DT-P38]

Couldn't see where it says I can drive my 4WD up there still? Don't wanna lobby to put myself out of the running for that iconic trip one day.

Can you clarify wally?

[zulu Delta 534]

Let's all stop driving aluminium cars and then they wont have to dig up any more bauxite. That will save part of the "wilderness".
In actual fact the times I have been to the cape I couldn't really see much difference in the topography of the top end to the majority of the northern section of the Territory from about Larrimah up, just no buffaloes on the cape!
If only we had more people living in the country areas perhaps we could draw up a petition to declare Sydney and Melbourne "wilderness areas" and ban people from working there too! Sydney especially, as it is situated on a greatly diversified area that was once a magnificent wilderness.
I shall just quietly go and put my flak jacket on now.:)
Regards
Glen

[ramblingboy42]

hmmm can we keep driving up there and leave **** buried everywhere and go out on pristine dry lakes and do donuts and disturb the fickle balance of the lakes surface and create windrows everywhere we drive off the track just like weve done all along the frenchline and throughout the Simpson desert? I hope they fence it off.

[d3syd]

I am for preserving areas of GENUINE pristine biological and cultural significance, but like everything there needs to be a balance, so I don't agree with shutting the whole place down by nominating the entire CY Peninsular as World Heritage simply because not all of CY can be considered significant and pristine.

[wally]

Couldn't see where it says I can drive my 4WD up there still? Don't wanna lobby to put myself out of the running for that iconic trip one day.

Can you clarify wally?

This is about whether the natural and cultural values of the peninsula are worth protecting. If you think they are then I would encourage you to sign the petition. If you don't, and maybe you think that the monetary value of the mineral resources and the benefits to the economy are more important, then obviously don't sign it. Access is a separate issue. I spent a year working up on the cape. I love the place and I've developed some appreciation of its natural values. If I could spend the rest of my life roaming around up there in a Land Rover I would be a happy man, so access is important to me too. I don't have any reason to think that World Heriage status would automatically lead to reduced access. Do you have any examples of that kind of precedent? I can't think of any. When Fraser Island was granted World Heritage status, nobody was denied access in their 4wd. When the Wet Tropics World Heritage area was announced, the Cape Trib - Bloomfield road was not closed. With mines come infrastructure. If there is large scale mining on the peninsula there will be mining camps, major roads, increased traffic, many more heavy vehicles, railways perhaps, port developments. A port development has been proposed at Bathurst Bay - that would be a tragedy. So if you do go up there, and all that happens, what sort of an adventure will you have? The very nature of the region - that vast natural area that you go there to experience- could have changed forever. And I don't think many mining companies have a history of granting access to the public in their 4wds. There are mineral leases coving parts of national parks up there. If mining went ahead in those places, access would certainly be reduced. There's a lot of Queensland to mine. Surely we can leave this bit alone.

[mikehzz]

That's a sensible argument wally. I suppose the fear of over regulation bringing track closures is the only downside. As you stated, it hasn't happened in some other areas but I can tell you there are a lot of gates in the Blue Mountains now. But given the choice between a gated WHA and a mining operation I would take the WHA.

[roverrescue]

"This is about whether the natural and cultural values of the peninsula are worth protecting. "

Wally, I agree with what you say in principle. There certainly are many places on the Cape that have amazing natural and cultural values.

But there is already and has been for years several extractive operations. One of the biggest bauxite operations is less than 100km from pristine white beaches with ocean sunsets and turtle nestings. You dot sit on a west coast beach enjoying the universe and wonder if it would be better if Rio didnt exist.

Its a bit like this... no one would ever contemplate building a house beside the water outlet of the power stations north of Sydney. Terrible pollution and noise... but less than a 100km away well what do you know... The people that choose to live in Sydney suburbia are not silly enough to say that the stinky coal industry and power generation is destroying their lives - they couldnt live without it.
But those same surburbia people are happy to sign a petition to lock up the entire Cape, not giving a second thought to the people who choose live up here and want to continue living up here.

Cape Flattery Silica mine has been operating since the '60s. The 99.9% SiO2 that is extracted there goes into your fancy plasma screen tvs. One can camp at the mouth of the McIvor or at Connies Beach and you would never know you are a stones throw away from this mining operation that has been running for 45 years. It has a minimal impact on the environment outside of the lease. It supplies resources to make plasma tvs to keep city dwellers happy & IT EMPLOYS HALF OF HOPEVALE AND A FAIR PROPORTION OF COOKTOWN.

Tourists make far more of a mess on the Cape than all the current mining operations. Mines are small footprint and have to comply to extensive EPA requirements.
Tourists drive wherever they want, do whatever they want and leave rubbish in their wake.

Wally, it is all well and good to say the Cape is pretty we should protect it - BUT blanket heritage listing is like throwing away the future. There is plenty of protected space under National Parks listings - extend them if need be. But please let the people who live here have a future.

Steve

[ramblingboy42]

Tourists make far more of a mess on the Cape than all the current mining operations. Mines are small footprint and have to comply to extensive EPA requirements.
Tourists drive wherever they want, do whatever they want and leave rubbish in their wake.

I agree 100%.On my recent Simpson Desert trip I found campfires left burning, bottles and cans jammed up the entrance to burrows, people scratching their names on markers and signs, people obviously trying to remove trig points for souvenirs, every dry lakebed some arseholes have gone out and carved donuts deep in the surface...ffs the lakes only get a few inches deep and this completely destroys the echo system. Its really time for satellite imagery and reporting to catch and punish these ****** before the parks all get closed down . As Steve says its not mining thats having the biggest impact on these areas but arseholes like above ruining it for others.

[wally]

"This is about whether the natural and cultural values of the peninsula are worth protecting. "

Wally, I agree with what you say in principle. There certainly are many places on the Cape that have amazing natural and cultural values.

But there is already and has been for years several extractive operations. One of the biggest bauxite operations is less than 100km from pristine white beaches with ocean sunsets and turtle nestings. You dot sit on a west coast beach enjoying the universe and wonder if it would be better if Rio didnt exist.

Its a bit like this... no one would ever contemplate building a house beside the water outlet of the power stations north of Sydney. Terrible pollution and noise... but less than a 100km away well what do you know... The people that choose to live in Sydney suburbia are not silly enough to say that the stinky coal industry and power generation is destroying their lives - they couldnt live without it.
But those same surburbia people are happy to sign a petition to lock up the entire Cape, not giving a second thought to the people who choose live up here and want to continue living up here.

Cape Flattery Silica mine has been operating since the '60s. The 99.9% SiO2 that is extracted there goes into your fancy plasma screen tvs. One can camp at the mouth of the McIvor or at Connies Beach and you would never know you are a stones throw away from this mining operation that has been running for 45 years. It has a minimal impact on the environment outside of the lease. It supplies resources to make plasma tvs to keep city dwellers happy & IT EMPLOYS HALF OF HOPEVALE AND A FAIR PROPORTION OF COOKTOWN.

Tourists make far more of a mess on the Cape than all the current mining operations. Mines are small footprint and have to comply to extensive EPA requirements.
Tourists drive wherever they want, do whatever they want and leave rubbish in their wake.

Wally, it is all well and good to say the Cape is pretty we should protect it - BUT blanket heritage listing is like throwing away the future. There is plenty of protected space under National Parks listings - extend them if need be. But please let the people who live here have a future.

Steve

Steve, no-one is going to shut down existing mining operations. I understand what you're saying. I lived in Cooktown and I worked in Hopevale. I've been to the Cape Flattery silica mine - toured all around it in fact. I too have camped on the McIvor, and no, from there I wouldn't have known that there was a mine a short distance up the coast. But just because you can't see or hear it from there doesn't mean it's not having an impact. Mines always have an environmental impact, but the impact is variable depending on the nature and scale of the operation and where it is situated. Even a small operation in a sensitive area can have a devastating and irreversible impact that you might not notice from your beach camp 100km away. I would argue that mining, not World Heritage listing, is throwing away the future. Those mineral resources are non-renewable. Tourism needs to be well managed, but it's sustainable. People leave rubbish, contribute to erosion, crap everywhere, light fires and facilitate the spread of weeds (I know, I dealt with it on a daily basis for ten years) but they usually don't leave massive scars on the landscape or cause irrevocable damage to entire catchments. Not allowing mines that don't already exist is not taking away anyone's future. In any event it's unlikely that the entire peninsula will become a World Heritage area. It's more likely that, if it happens at all, there'll be an assessment to determine which areas comply with the requirements for World Heritage listing, and a boundary will be created to include those areas. Those areas are then afforded a level of protection that national parks can't give them. Other areas will probably still be available for mining. I'm trying to reasonable here. By saying that I'm advocating protection of the place because it's "pretty" is to engage in the kind of parody and sarcasm that I'm trying to avoid. The tone of the thread deteriorates once that starts.

[roverrescue]

Tourists drive to the Cape in vehicles that are built with the minerals that are mined and fuelled by minerals that are non renewable.

But lets move away from mining... There wont be any working cattle country if my reading of the proposed World Heritage Listing is correct.

Not sure when you were up this way but the ferals and weeds are unbelievable now in National Parks - yet the working cattle stations have a much better handle on them.

Surely once a place gets World Heritage listing there wont be any more weed eradication or feral control than what currently happens in the National Parks. If there is a magic bucket of money for weed control and pest control then it should be spent now in the parks like Rinyirri (Lakefield) that are seriously threatened by weeds especially.

A place like Fraser Island can be World Heritage listed and then actually develop and maintain a tourism only existence. The Cape is iconic but much to big to actually survive long term on the meagre tourist dollar.

By a future I mean that once declared World Heritage then NO FURTHER ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CAN TAKE PLACE... that is pretty limiting whether it be a mine, a cattle property, fish processing, timber resources etc etc

IF as you say World Heritage could be piecemeal approach go on draw an imaginary map. IMO all the current amazing environmental locations are currently within declared nature reserves or National Parks... what will changing them to World Heritage actually do.

The proposal I have read on World Heritage listing is for a blanket listing effectively north of Cape Trib.

Of course it wont float - but then again the same groups putting this out were the ones 10 years ago calling for a Marine Park around all of Australia...

Now that is almost a reality and in a few years we will realise the folly of our ways.

Humans need food and use resources.
If you want to limit the impact of humans on the environment stop talking about silly parks and stop breeding. The world needs population control not carbon taxes.
But oh yeah you cant have limitless 4% economic growth if you stop breeding.

I really dont think this is parody or sarcastic but I just cant see that World Heritage will achieve anymore than current protected areas BUT it will hamper the region if it is applied to all land north of Cape Trib.

S

[wally]

Fair enough mate. We've both had our say and I'm happy to leave it at that.

[roverrescue]

And I was just getting warmed up ;)
Hadnt even hit the red yet!

All is well tonight in Cookie and the boat is ready to go for a swim tommorrow!

S

[Johnno1969]

Steve, no-one is going to shut down existing mining operations. I understand what you're saying. I lived in Cooktown and I worked in Hopevale. I've been to the Cape Flattery silica mine - toured all around it in fact. I too have camped on the McIvor, and no, from there I wouldn't have known that there was a mine a short distance up the coast. But just because you can't see or hear it from there doesn't mean it's not having an impact. Mines always have an environmental impact, but the impact is variable depending on the nature and scale of the operation and where it is situated. Even a small operation in a sensitive area can have a devastating and irreversible impact that you might not notice from your beach camp 100km away. I would argue that mining, not World Heritage listing, is throwing away the future. Those mineral resources are non-renewable. Tourism needs to be well managed, but it's sustainable. People leave rubbish, contribute to erosion, crap everywhere, light fires and facilitate the spread of weeds (I know, I dealt with it on a daily basis for ten years) but they usually don't leave massive scars on the landscape or cause irrevocable damage to entire catchments. Not allowing mines that don't already exist is not taking away anyone's future. In any event it's unlikely that the entire peninsula will become a World Heritage area. It's more likely that, if it happens at all, there'll be an assessment to determine which areas comply with the requirements for World Heritage listing, and a boundary will be created to include those areas. Those areas are then afforded a level of protection that national parks can't give them. Other areas will probably still be available for mining. I'm trying to reasonable here. By saying that I'm advocating protection of the place because it's "pretty" is to engage in the kind of parody and sarcasm that I'm trying to avoid. The tone of the thread deteriorates once that starts.


Wally for PM, I say. I don't see any loony-greeny stuff in this. Just worth keeping in mind how much the big end of town and the lure of money has pushed wildlife and wild systems around for a long, long time - largely unchecked. Mostly this has happened with little cultural awareness of the damage being caused. What people love to lampoon as crazy lefty conservation is a pretty small brake on a tidal wave of history. It's worth taking a sceptical, dare I say conservative, view of how we approach and threaten irreplaceable ecosystems and landscapes.

[CYSFF]

S Time we all stood together on this issue. You will find that the majority of Cape York people do not want a world heritage nomination. If you support this please call Trish at CYSF on 40532856.


Tourists drive to the Cape in vehicles that are built with the minerals that are mined and fuelled by minerals that are non renewable.

But lets move away from mining... There wont be any working cattle country if my reading of the proposed World Heritage Listing is correct.

Not sure when you were up this way but the ferals and weeds are unbelievable now in National Parks - yet the working cattle stations have a much better handle on them.

Surely once a place gets World Heritage listing there wont be any more weed eradication or feral control than what currently happens in the National Parks. If there is a magic bucket of money for weed control and pest control then it should be spent now in the parks like Rinyirri (Lakefield) that are seriously threatened by weeds especially.

A place like Fraser Island can be World Heritage listed and then actually develop and maintain a tourism only existence. The Cape is iconic but much to big to actually survive long term on the meagre tourist dollar.

By a future I mean that once declared World Heritage then NO FURTHER ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CAN TAKE PLACE... that is pretty limiting whether it be a mine, a cattle property, fish processing, timber resources etc etc

IF as you say World Heritage could be piecemeal approach go on draw an imaginary map. IMO all the current amazing environmental locations are currently within declared nature reserves or National Parks... what will changing them to World Heritage actually do.

The proposal I have read on World Heritage listing is for a blanket listing effectively north of Cape Trib.

Of course it wont float - but then again the same groups putting this out were the ones 10 years ago calling for a Marine Park around all of Australia...

Now that is almost a reality and in a few years we will realise the folly of our ways.

Humans need food and use resources.
If you want to limit the impact of humans on the environment stop talking about silly parks and stop breeding. The world needs population control not carbon taxes.
But oh yeah you cant have limitless 4% economic growth if you stop breeding.

I really dont think this is parody or sarcastic but I just cant see that World Heritage will achieve anymore than current protected areas BUT it will hamper the region if it is applied to all land north of Cape Trib.

S

[wally]

Well... Welcome to the forum, "CYSFF". It doesn't surprise me at all that most CY residents don't support world heritage listing. That's why I'm not ready to be P.M. (sorry Johnno). My policies just aren't populist enough.