The sparkies on this forum might like this....

[p38arover]

This photograph was posted yesterday on the Whirlpool forum. The sparkies on this forum might like this - or maybe they won't.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/318.jpg

[Benz]

haha just a couple of things wrong there that I can see and I'm not even a sparky

looks like he wasn't finished yet either :eek:

[Mick_Marsh]

A tad untidy. Would look better with an escutcheon.
Not sure about the new concept of an active bar. Oh well. whatever works I guess.

[goingbush]

cant be for real, surely.

no one in their right mind would put the active on a bonding bar, not even on a temporary - temporary job, so it has to be a furphy.

As we know a lot of temporaries end up being permanent

[mattyg]

I really hope that this was someone's idea of a joke :eek::eek::o:o

Mind you i have seen qualified electricians with no idea at all.
TAFE is a joke, 50% pass mark required on most subjects, and even then you get multiple goes at it.
That and apprentice labour hire places that just pass guys around for 4 years without ever teaching them anything.

[p38arover]

Not a joke. See http://whrl.pl/Rdkbt1

[George130]

Cool Thanks.
Now I know how to rewire my place:eek::D

[clubagreenie]

I'm not seeing it?

[richard4u2]

the people entering our country over the last few years do they know our regulations ?

[rovercare]

Hehe, I seen that one on there

[mike_ie]

I'm not seeing it?

Where to start... messy wiring overall, doubling up on 2.5 cable to bring power in, rather than running heavier cable, having a live, uninsulated bus bar rather than running an insulated bar across the top of the breakers, exposed copper on a lot of the cables, cables crossing all over the place....

[clubagreenie]

No, I wasn't seeing the pic...

[p38arover]

No, I wasn't seeing the pic...

Try refreshing the page.

[Vern]

I have photo's on my phone with some pretty ordinary work, not quite as bad as that but not far from it. :(
I can see the problem, no MEN, and neutrals don't correspond

[rick130]

I reckon a fridgey did it :angel:

[scarry]

I reckon a fridgey did it :angel:


Yer one that didn't know what he/she was doing,which is 90% of them:(

Back to the pic,seen worse..............

Not long ago i came across a cord wired to a 240v fridge in 2 core flex:eek:

No RCD's on the property either.....

[wrinklearthur]

I have photo's on my phone with some pretty ordinary work, not quite as bad as that but not far from it. :(
I can see the problem, no MEN, and neutrals don't correspond

Be careful otherwise you will restart that women's lib thing off again.

That worker probably didn't get to finish the job when his supervisor got around to seeing where it was at and was then asked to take his lunch bag with him as well!

I have seen worse things, in a major hospital there were cables that hot the pvc coatings were sticky and in homes with insulation over down lights.
.

[barney]

there's nothing wrong with active links, sparkies have been using them for ever, especially on big switch boards where you have something like 3 120mm mains coming in, feeding a mess of contactors and sub-circuits, but they do need to have an insulating cover over them, ideally the neutral should too.
it is possible this is only a sub board and the MEN is at the main board, but the paralleling of 2.5s for a sub main is a real no-no. minimum size for a sub board is 6mm (or it was - it's been a while since I've done any real electrical work, been working on catering equipment for last 18 years).
actually, I was working on a chinese dishwasher in sydney the other day and I looked down underneath to try to suss out how it was wired and every wire on the elements and the hi limit were green, so i opened up the control box on it and found every live cable inside the thing was green. I don't know how this thing got approved to be used in Australia.

[rick130]

t
[snip]
actually, I was working on a chinese dishwasher in sydney the other day and I looked down underneath to try to suss out how it was wired and every wire on the elements and the hi limit were green, so i opened up the control box on it and found every live cable inside the thing was green. I don't know how this thing got approved to be used in Australia.

Chinese commercial freezers where switch/control wires were green w/yellow stripe as they'd only used twin + earth flex and needed active, neutral + switch wire.

[barney]

this was last thursday, still considering emailing the photos to the office of fair trading.

[Pinelli]

this was last thursday, still considering emailing the photos to the office of fair trading.

I would. Imagine how you'd feel if you didn't, and later on found out someone died form that sort of dodgy wiring.

[superquag]

there's nothing wrong with active links, sparkies have been using them for ever, especially on big switch boards where you have something like 3 120mm mains coming in, feeding a mess of contactors and sub-circuits, but they do need to have an insulating cover over them, ideally the neutral should too.

......., so i opened up the control box on it and found every live cable inside the thing was green.

I don't know how this thing got approved to be used in Australia.


I'm not a sparky, but I'd like a leeeeeetle bit more gap and/or insulation between the Active/Earth/Neutral "busses". The pic looks like there's a thin bit of plastic between. #1 Son (Sparkie's Mate) disagrees, and named the brand of box. "Inexpensive" and not the top end of the Quality scale. Reckons he was working on a shopping centre main feed board that looked similar in neatness...


It got approved 'cos the people who are supposed to check, Don't. Why?- Incompetant or immoral, take a pick.

Meanwhile, an Australian manufacturer who abides by the Rules is being undercut and out of business.

[MEANZ06]

[Shrugs] Looks good to me, if the microwave or half the house isn't working just stick my hand in and jiggle the wires... :p

[clubagreenie]

My new box was quoting the integral guy who came out to replace the master fuse that had rusted through "No sparkie did that, it's way too neat and tidy". Explained to him that I'd done it. He asked a bunch of questions and went over it all and then signwed it off and affered me a couple of cases to design the elec/network for his sons house they were building plus layout the circuit board and wire it.

[p38arover]

"No sparkie did that, it's way too neat and tidy".

30 years ago at another location, I had my garage inspected and had the same response. Yes, I'd wired it.

[bee utey]

[Shrugs] Looks good to me, if the microwave or half the house isn't working just stick my hand in and jiggle the wires... :p

Aah, you softies only run that 110V stuff, we run the proper "death wish" 230V house voltage.:cool:

[scarry]

Aah, you softies only run that 110V stuff, we run the proper "death wish" 230V house voltage.:cool:

110v will kill just as easily:(

I hate that green with yellow stripped wiring,very confusing,it should be banned.

Same as having some breakers up for off mixed with others that are down for off in the same board,also a dangerous PITA.

[Ratel10mm]

I've seen worse!
Frankly, I know some good local sparkies, but the way things are done here, and the torrents of rubbish sparkies really worries me.
Then there's the local practice of using MCB's as 'local' isolators. On 415V 60A+ machines.
Or, I can count on one hand the number of MSSB's I've seen here that can't be opened without isolating (or bypassing the isolator if you're competent. Of course there's occasions where we need to do this.).
Seriously, Qld claims to be leading the way, yet I get the impression the 'she'll be right mate' mentality applies to any advances since about the 13th. edition.

Oh yeah - your average, probably most, sparkies do domestic stuff. Show them MSSB's or controls & they're usually freaked out. Yet apparently they're still more competent than I am to work on my gear???

[superquag]

Yes, they are way more competant than you... or anyone without a ticket.

Reminds me of a friend of mine 30+ years ago. Wanted to build and connect a portable power - outlet board for his Church. The Powers that Be deemed him 'incompetant' and 'not allowed' to do so. - This, despite his qualifications and experience as a Radio Tech servicing multi-kilowatt transmitters, and later as an Engineer installing/commissioning Perth Airport's radar.

[slug_burner]

Yes, they are way more competant than you... or anyone without a ticket.

Reminds me of a friend of mine 30+ years ago. Wanted to build and connect a portable power - outlet board for his Church. The Powers that Be deemed him 'incompetant' and 'not allowed' to do so. - This, despite his qualifications and experience as a Radio Tech servicing multi-kilowatt transmitters, and later as an Engineer installing/commissioning Perth Airport's radar.

Something out of the usual will stump most and they probably did not want to set a precedent or simply "It's more than my job's worth"

[wrinklearthur]

Yes, they are way more competant than you... or anyone without a ticket.

Reminds me of a friend of mine 30+ years ago. Wanted to build and connect a portable power - outlet board for his Church. The Powers that Be deemed him 'incompetant' and 'not allowed' to do so. - This, despite his qualifications and experience as a Radio Tech servicing multi-kilowatt transmitters, and later as an Engineer installing/commissioning Perth Airport's radar.

Radio technicians can work on frequencies from DC to Daylight and voltages from absolute zero to lightning bolts! yet the regulators get funny when they do 50Hz 240 volts.
.

[rick130]

Yes, they are way more competant than you... or anyone without a ticket.

Reminds me of a friend of mine 30+ years ago. Wanted to build and connect a portable power - outlet board for his Church. The Powers that Be deemed him 'incompetant' and 'not allowed' to do so. - This, despite his qualifications and experience as a Radio Tech servicing multi-kilowatt transmitters, and later as an Engineer installing/commissioning Perth Airport's radar.

It's the way our world works I'm afraid, and it's damned near impossible to change it.
I'm lucky that the sparkies generally get me to wire up my own controls and get me to fault find stuff for them sometimes too, or pass it on to me.

I'm a qualified fridgey yet legally I can't touch LPG for heating, etc. but am allowed to work with explosive HC refrigerant's at high pressures ??

I once enquired about doing some sort of compliance course so I could legally work on gas and was informed it was a 4 year plumbing and gasfitting apprenticeship..... :rolleyes:

[p38arover]

Radio technicians can work on frequencies from DC to Daylight and voltages from absolute zero to lightning bolts! yet the regulators get funny when they do 50Hz 240 volts.
.

I trained as a Radio Technician at the DCA Training School. I also worked on high power microwave (satellite ground station) transmitters.

But I couldn't work on a radio station, e.g, AM or FM broadcaster so I later did the Broadcast Operators Certificate of Proficiency so I could work at a radio station and on their gen sets.

But I can't wire 240v.

[Pinelli]

Ditto, sort of. Electrical engineer here, yet can't put in a 240V socket at home legally.

Mind you, most of the lecc engs I graduated with couldn't use a soldering iron, so might be a bit of sense in that one.

[wrinklearthur]

My lowly claim to fame is after gaining my amateur radio licence (vk7kba) while on the dairy farm, I wanted to study radio theory some more and enrolled in post grad courses at the Hobart T.A.F.E.
I gained certificates such as B&W TV, Colour TV, VCR servicing and basic two way radio servicing.

But after moving into electronics for employment from working on the farm, I could never forget how to wire up a star delta start on a three phase electric motor!
.

[d2dave]

In the OP's photo, I can't see any screws holding the box to the wall. I am wondering if it is actually connected. Some bored sparky possibly did this for a joke, just to see the reactions he would get.

Ignore this post. I went back and had a second look and I think I did see some screws. I must have been having a blonde moment

[MEANZ06]

Aah, you softies only run that 110V stuff, we run the proper "death wish" 230V house voltage.:cool:

"Proper death wish", you've never seen my redneck bench grinder?... :lol2:

[clubagreenie]

It's not proper redneck unless you've fitted a mullet.

[Vern]

Ditto, sort of. Electrical engineer here, yet can't put in a 240V socket at home legally.

Mind you, most of the lecc engs I graduated with couldn't use a soldering iron, so might be a bit of sense in that one.
Last Elec engineers house i worked at, who did all his own wiring, looked like my frirst year apprentice did it:eek:, and this guy was an elec teacher as well. Was most impressed with his generater back up system. It consisted of an 8 kva generater and a 'death lead':eek::eek::eek:, 'oh its ok, i pull the fuses (yes still had rewirable fuses):(

[Pinelli]

Last Elec engineers house i worked at, who did all his own wiring, looked like my frirst year apprentice did it:eek:, and this guy was an elec teacher as well. Was most impressed with his generater back up system. It consisted of an 8 kva generater and a 'death lead':eek::eek::eek:, 'oh its ok, i pull the fuses (yes still had rewirable fuses):(

Death Lead? You'll have to explain that one to me. Hang on, it's not an extension lead with male plugs on each end, is it? Connects the house circuit to the generator via a standard GPO in the house? I jokingly suggested making such a thing once to a mate who was an apprentice electrician and he almost had a heart attack.

Previous owner of my house was an electrician. Being an old place, it didn't have any wiring to the ceiling for fans, so the old sparky has used the red to power the lights, the black to power the fans, and the earth as a common neutral for both. None of it's earthed. I just try and not touch anything. Luckily it's all 3m ceilings.


I teach high school physics these days, and as well as prospective scientists, doctors and engineers, I get a significant number prospective electricians through the classes. Mostly they fail.:eek:

[Vern]

Death lead, you got it in one:). Funny, some people understand physics really well, but can't change a light bulb, some can change a light bulb really well, but can't understand physics.;)

[fclandy]

...
I can see the problem, no MEN, and neutrals don't correspond


Be careful otherwise you will restart that women's lib thing off again.
...
.

Yep, MEN (Multiple Earth Neutral) is out!

The politically correct term is now PERSON (Place Earth Return Strap On Neutral) :D

[p38arover]

Death lead, you got it in one:). Funny, some people understand physics really well, but can't change a light bulb, some can change a light bulb really well, but can't understand physics.;)

One of my B-I-Ls has a PhD and is a nuclear physicist. He is, I am told, hopeless with his hands.

[scarry]

While climbing around on top of a cold room looking for a gas leak,in the dark,we came across this:mad:

Old govt spec job done in pyro,but it was all alive:eek:


http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/11368682/640/11368682.jpg (http://picturepush.com/public/11368682)

[barney]

Alive, but also fireproof:D

[Bigbjorn]

It's the way our world works I'm afraid, and it's damned near impossible to change it.
I'm lucky that the sparkies generally get me to wire up my own controls and get me to fault find stuff for them sometimes too, or pass it on to me.

I'm a qualified fridgey yet legally I can't touch LPG for heating, etc. but am allowed to work with explosive HC refrigerant's at high pressures ??

I once enquired about doing some sort of compliance course so I could legally work on gas and was informed it was a 4 year plumbing and gasfitting apprenticeship..... :rolleyes:

A mate is a Diesel-HEE fitter and was told he couldn't do the required TAFE course to get an automotive gas installers ticket because he wasn't a motor mechanic. He was not impressed as diesel fitters regard motor mechs as semi-skilled labourers.

[scarry]

Death lead, you got it in one:). Funny, some people understand physics really well, but can't change a light bulb, some can change a light bulb really well, but can't understand physics.;)

Suicide lead we call them.;)

One of my brothers is a Barrister,got honours all through uni,was school captain,etc,etc,but can't change a light bulb or for that matter a flat tyre on his car.

[tangus89]

this was in Zimbabwe when i was there a few months ago. they were welding off it :eek:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/915.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/916.jpg

apparently all the plugs get stolen to make suicide/death leads to connect shantys up to the closest power source....