My new IID tool and the faults I've found - and what do they mean?

[Homestar]

So, just got my hands on my new GAP diagnostics IID tool. What a great bit of kit - been playing for the last hour with it.:)

Now, the reason I bought it was to clear the EAS faults I had, and confirm that the flat front right air bag was faulty. Well, after reading the faults (in the EAS), I only got 64 - ARTICULATION VALIDITY FAULT and nothing else. I reset the fault, and to my surprise the FR air bag inflated! - Great.... BUT, when I went for a drive the AIR SUSPENSION INACTIVE came up again after a couple of corners and it is the same fault - I am guessing an intermitant fault with a wheel height sensor???

When I clear the fault, the suspension goes up and down as it should, and when you view the wheel heights using the IID tool, they all show that they are changing, although they aren't even - is this normal???

Any advise, ideas or opinions would be appreciated, as I know it isn't the air bag itself now, but not sure exactly what it may be...

I also had 18 other faults that I cleared, but I'm not sure of what half of them were.

Cheers - Gav:)

[Laurie]

Gav
Not sure but your compressor may need a re-build kit. Sounds familiar to some I've seen on Fullfatr :(

Also here is a link to a comprehensive list of the fault codes.

TroubleCodes.net- engine & OBD2 Trouble Codes and Technical info & Tool Store. (http://www.troublecodes.net/OBD2/Pcodes.shtml)

Laurie

[Homestar]

Thanks Laurie, but the compressor is almost brand new, and punching out 188PSI. The car goes up and down quite fast. I've been reading some stuff on other forums, and the majority seem to point towards the wheel height sensor, which is what I first thought, but I am wondering now how to confirm this. Mind you at $36 it ain't gunna kill me if I go out an buy one...:D

Nice list of fault codes - I have been looking for something like that.

Cheers - Gav

[harlie]

ARTICULATION VALIDITY FAULT = the ECU thinks - "A height sensor has indicated that the suspension has moved to a position that should be mechanically impossible."

Essentially this is one of the analogue problems I referred to in another thread, the ECU is receiving a voltage from that sensor that is well out of range. This may be very intermittent as either there is a bad connection or short in the loom or the semiconductor material in the sensor is breaking down. Check connectors then replace height sensor. Question is where is the voltage going? If it is over voltage it is the sensor for sure (unless a small short in loom) - under voltage (more likely) is either sensor or connector.

Laurie's list is only for OBD2 standard codes. Remember LR only followed the standard for the Engine ECU.

Gav, your IID has paid for its self already.

[Homestar]

Gav, your IID has paid for its self already.

Absolutely!:) I'm one happy chappy at the moment. About to go and play a bit more and see if I can narrow it down.

Cheers - Gav

[Homestar]

Well, definately strange figures coming from the front RH sensor - it is way out compared to the others, and had a couple of odd figures while going up and down, so I think I'll bung a new sensor in there, and do a calibration of the system and see where that gets me.

[Hoges]

Can you swap the sensors from side to side as per the P38... just a thought to confirm dud sensor... cheers

[Homestar]

Can you swap the sensors from side to side as per the P38... just a thought to confirm dud sensor... cheers

Good thought, but there are different part numbers for each side - I have had a look though, and that could be just a different bracket - not sure. They aren't expensive anyway - even in Aus, only $85 - I can get one landed from Old Blighty for about $55 - ($36 plus postage), but not going to bother for that amount.

Cheers - Gav

[harlie]

.....
and had a couple of odd figures while going up and down,
.....


Well done Gav.

This would make me believe it is the sensor too. It will be a really odd figure that will trigger the inactive faults. A loom problem would be more likely with road vibration ect, and I would expect it to appear normal most of the time with the odd huge variation.

Can you take the sensor arm off the suspension component and move it by hand, simulate road bumps.

[zedcars]

Just a point.
On L322's can bus errors, erroneous codes and junk in programs can affect sub systems.

I have found that the air suspension can best be described as a sub system of the abs system when looking for faults which is higher up in the command chain.

Go to the ABS system and check for can bus faults and erroneous codes, clear it our with your scanner then go to the EAS and recheck for faults. Sometimes they are often eliminated when the ABS is working properly.

Just a thought.
Dennis
zedcars

[Homestar]

Just a point.
On L322's can bus errors, erroneous codes and junk in programs can affect sub systems.

I have found that the air suspension can best be described as a sub system of the abs system when looking for faults which is higher up in the command chain.

Go to the ABS system and check for can bus faults and erroneous codes, clear it our with your scanner then go to the EAS and recheck for faults. Sometimes they are often eliminated when the ABS is working properly.

Just a thought.
Dennis
zedcars

Interesting you should say that as it has intermittant HDC INACTIVE faults which I assume is some sort of ABS fault - I'll have a look at that as well.

Cheers - Gav

[zedcars]

Gav
Yes I stumbled upon this by accident trying to fix a dead HDC system.

Having cleared codes and got activity, the defect returned soon after the first drive cycle etc.

For grins and giggles (are there any fixing modern cars???) I went scooting about with my Autologic into the many modules on that car. Having found a host of error messages especially in the ABS system I cleared them all out and made sure the ABS system was working as it should.

Then going back to the original fault with the HDC I cleared it again and bingo it all came to life and stayed that way.

Car hasn't come back for the same problem so life is good in the shop (If that is at all possible with all these Yankee blokes I have turning wrenches?):o
Dennis:)
zedcars

[Homestar]

Just a quick update to all this. The new wheel height sensor fixed the problem, but after all that, I found a small leak from the LHF airbag when it was at access height - from a fatigue crease in the rubber - no dramas at standard height, so I bit the bullet and ordered a set from the UK. They should be here in the next couple of days. They have 172KKM on them, so they are well and truly due for renewal.

Best price I found locally was $1,130.00 each, but I got the pair delivered for under $900.00 from England. (214 quid each + 142 quid delivery)

Cheers - Gav.

[Daniel]

So, just got my hands on my new GAP diagnostics IID tool. What a great bit of kit - been playing for the last hour with it.:)

Now, the reason I bought it was to clear the EAS faults I had, and confirm that the flat front right air bag was faulty. Well, after reading the faults (in the EAS), I only got 64 - ARTICULATION VALIDITY FAULT and nothing else. I reset the fault, and to my surprise the FR air bag inflated! - Great.... BUT, when I went for a drive the AIR SUSPENSION INACTIVE came up again after a couple of corners and it is the same fault - I am guessing an intermitant fault with a wheel height sensor???

When I clear the fault, the suspension goes up and down as it should, and when you view the wheel heights using the IID tool, they all show that they are changing, although they aren't even - is this normal???

Any advise, ideas or opinions would be appreciated, as I know it isn't the air bag itself now, but not sure exactly what it may be...

I also had 18 other faults that I cleared, but I'm not sure of what half of them were.

Cheers - Gav:)

Doesn't your tool come with a help section to explain what the error codes are?

Anyway, if the fault is a wheel height sensor then it is relatively easy to disconnect the suspension link and test the sensors' movement range using your tool.

The EAS ECU has no connection with the ABS ECU on the early L322 model that I've heard of.

[Homestar]

Doesn't your tool come with a help section to explain what the error codes are? - Um.... No, or else I wouldn't have asked the question now would I?

Anyway, if the fault is a wheel height sensor then it is relatively easy to disconnect the suspension link and test the sensors' movement range using your tool. - Yeah, if you had read all my posts, you would know I've fixed it, and I didn't need to disconnect it to check it - the IID tool does a good job here - you can use it to run the EAS up and down - this is when I found the errors from the sensor, as has been mentioned previously.

The EAS ECU has no connection with the ABS ECU on the early L322 model that I've heard of. - Not sure where you got the idea I thought this was the case, I was talking about a different fault - the HDC inactive fault I have had, which is related to the ABS

Keep up Dan, it's not that hard...:)

[Daniel]

Keep up Dan, it's not that hard...:)


sorry mate - forgot to look at that little spot in the bottom rh corner where it says 2>.

The comment about the ABS was in relation to the USA post - I think that he has your truck mixed up with later L322 models which have different ECU arrangements after Ford got involved.

I assume that your price for the front EAS bags was for bags only??
Who do you buy your gear off in UK?

I recently replaced my front struts (bags, shocks and all) with imported UK gear. The shocks only last about 150k so it was well and truly time to do that. I now have the old struts (inc bags) for spares.

In all my years and 100's k kms experience in RRC, P38A and now L322 I have never had an EAS bag leak.

[harlie]

Rolling Bellows (the type of air bags we have on our LRs) will all leak sooner or later, the rubber perishes and they leak where the roll spends most of its time. I spent 8 years working with air systems on heavy vehicles, although I was involved with the electronics side, I spent a truck load of time on the shop floor in both Scania and Volvo. All rolling bellows eventually leak, on heavies the belt or shaft driven compressor can cope with several leaking bags for indefinitely, with our little electric compressors our car can’t.

Most long haul trucks / Busses used to carry spare bellows (just the rubber section), and the drivers were pretty good at changing them roadside, I did one in the shop and it’s not that hard. These days most companies have maintenance agreements so spares like this aren’t carried anymore – call the man…

Rubber doesn’t last forever, especially under stress - My 1999 D2 started to leak in August this year, I put 2 news ones in, 13 years, not bad. My 04 rangie doesn’t leak but all bags have the early fatigue signs (small cracks around the bellows that can be seen as the roll passes that point – sometimes not easy to spot) which could go another 5-6 years or could start leaking today. I would think 15 or more would be rare, most say 10 is it. If anything I would say higher Km would be better, as the rubber spends less time stuck in the one position. Some of the under used heavy trailers had significantly shorter bag life. Heat was also a factor.

Suspension bags are definately a consumable item, and to pair them with the strut makes sense.

Anyways - Gav, good to hear you're back in action.

[Homestar]

sorry mate - forgot to look at that little spot in the bottom rh corner where it says 2>.

The comment about the ABS was in relation to the USA post - I think that he has your truck mixed up with later L322 models which have different ECU arrangements after Ford got involved.

I assume that your price for the front EAS bags was for bags only??
Who do you buy your gear off in UK?

I recently replaced my front struts (bags, shocks and all) with imported UK gear. The shocks only last about 150k so it was well and truly time to do that. I now have the old struts (inc bags) for spares.

In all my years and 100's k kms experience in RRC, P38A and now L322 I have never had an EAS bag leak.

No probs mate - just a friendly dig:). The $900 is for 2 complete strut assemblies with bags, delivered to my door - 28Kg's in all which I didn't think was bad, but not sure what others have found around the place. I did think about doing just the bags to save a few bucks, but as you said, the shocks will be about stuffed as well by now, so I'm looking forward to how it rides with brand new air bags and shocks.

I'll report the results when I get them and fit them. Just had a look on the UPS website and they have cleared customs, and been checked into and out of their Melbourne depot last night, so I should have them this arvo or tommorrow with a bit of luck.

That should keep things out of trouble for a while I think - the compressor was brand new when I bought the car 12 months ago, so that should have a bit of life left yet. Only the back bags and shocks to do at some stage. I haven't heard of the rear ones failing before, so probably no rush, but I think I'll do them sooner rather than later, just to put my mind at rest.

Cheers - Gav

[Daniel]

That should keep things out of trouble for a while I think - the compressor was brand new when I bought the car 12 months ago, so that should have a bit of life left yet. Only the back bags and shocks to do at some stage. I haven't heard of the rear ones failing before, so probably no rush, but I think I'll do them sooner rather than later, just to put my mind at rest.
Cheers - Gav

My EAS compressor was replaced at 150k by my insurance company following an accident as it co-coincidently failed during its stay at the smash repair shop. My experience with P38a is that it is usually the piston that goes although I was unsuccessful in getting the old L322 unit back - I was told that LR only supplies new ones on an exchange basis.

I replaced my rear shocks the same time as my front struts. They were stuffed. I couldn't find any decent priced ones in UK so sourced them locally.

On my 2007 tdv8 L322 the dealer replaced last year (under extended new car warranty), the EAS compressor, a front strut assembly and a rear EAS bag and shock absorber. I suspect that it was misdiagnosis and as always the dealers replace parts as they are not paying for them.

It was like that with my P38a when I took it to a dealer before I purchased some diagnostic gear for myself. They told me all sorts of parts needed replacing at huge cost. I didn't believe any of it and purchased my own diagnosis gear - I found the problem was a little speck of rubber (probably from an EAS bag) lodged under one of the EAS valve seats causing it to slowly leak.

[fraser130]

The EAS ECU has no connection with the ABS ECU on the early L322 model that I've heard of.

Daniel, the 2 systems are closely related.
When my car has a ABS sensor cable break internally and go intermittently open circuit, the car would throw a suspension inactive message and the car would drop to access height and remain there until I shut down and restarted the car. HDC and ABS was also inactive (obviously)

Cheers,

Fraser

[Daniel]

Daniel, the 2 systems are closely related.
When my car has a ABS sensor cable break internally and go intermittently open circuit, the car would throw a suspension inactive message and the car would drop to access height and remain there until I shut down and restarted the car. HDC and ABS was also inactive (obviously)

Cheers,

Fraser

I don't know if that makes the 2 systems related??

What you describe appears to be a safety feature interacting through the system to ensure that the drive is aware of the issue.

The "suspension inactive" warning appears to be generic warning for any issue with the truck - I think that sorted out that stupidity in the post 2006 models.

[Homestar]

I don't know if that makes the 2 systems related??

What you describe appears to be a safety feature interacting through the system to ensure that the drive is aware of the issue.

The "suspension inactive" warning appears to be generic warning for any issue with the truck - I think that sorted out that stupidity in the post 2006 models.

Which would make them related wouldn't it? If the EAS throws a fault when the ABS is not working correctly, then they are - by any sence of the word - related???

Maybe not as an entire system, but it sound like (on pre 2006 at least) that they know what the other is up too...

[Daniel]

Which would make them related wouldn't it? If the EAS throws a fault when the ABS is not working correctly, then they are - by any sence of the word - related???

Maybe not as an entire system, but it sound like (on pre 2006 at least) that they know what the other is up too...

OK then by that logic the SRS ECU is related to the EMS ECU.

It sounds like we are getting back to same type of logic as before when it was adamantly stated that the ABS ECU was reporting a brake pad warning light as a fault code!!!
When it comes to vehicle electronics people always want to (for some unknown reason) make it far more complicated than it really is.
LandRover with its initial monopoly with TB started that trend and it was followed by BBS. It is in their $ interest to keep it that way - black magic!

Let's just agree to disagree.

[fraser130]

I don't know if that makes the 2 systems related??

What you describe appears to be a safety feature interacting through the system to ensure that the drive is aware of the issue.

The "suspension inactive" warning appears to be generic warning for any issue with the truck - I think that sorted out that stupidity in the post 2006 models.

Ummm, no.
I think the original discussion was about what could be causing a suspension inactive warning. It could be the ABS system.
If the ABS system can cause a suspension inactive warning, then the systems are related.

Cheers,
Fraser

[Homestar]

OK then by that logic the SRS ECU is related to the EMS ECU.

It sounds like we are getting back to same type of logic as before when it was adamantly stated that the ABS ECU was reporting a brake pad warning light as a fault code!!!
When it comes to vehicle electronics people always want to (for some unknown reason) make it far more complicated than it really is.
LandRover with its initial monopoly with TB started that trend and it was followed by BBS. It is in their $ interest to keep it that way - black magic!

Let's just agree to disagree.

Geez - don't blow a head gasket mate - go and take a Bex and have a lie down until your blood pressure is under control. I understand what Fraser is saying, and it makes a lot more sence than your ravings...

[justinc]

both those systems are functions/ part of the DSC, so yes one faulting will most likely effect the other. Dennis is on the money i think.

jc