New oil leak

[PaulP38a]

Just my luck... My P38 has been running well for a long time with no major issues. In the past few weeks I have been thinking about selling it, despite fitting a new winch last week, and get another P38 to start the Hard Range upgrade process again.
So, we had to go down the coast yesterday for a family thing (reason i could not get to the LRC Expo) and I enjoyed putting the Rangie through its paces going down the Clyde. For a car with a 2" lift and 33" tyres it more than holds its own with all those lesser vehicles. At one stage I was caught unawares and was overtaken by a Landcruiser, didn't take long to correct that :)

Back to the issue... Last night I found a sizeable oil leak under the car after noticing a few drops on the ground when we were down at Sussex. Seems to be down low and at the back of the engine, see photo below.

51499
Note: I had wiped the sump down before the photo was taken.
With any luck it is just the drain plug, which should be easy as it is due for an oil change.

I will degrease and blast this weekend to try to isolate it. Just canvassing for ideas at the moment.

Cheers, Paul.

[Hoges]

Hi Paul, I had similar. Oil was dripping off most of the sump-to-block attachment bolts as well as from the sump plug... My initial thought was that the rear main bearing seal was shot but when I removed the sump the area was quite dry...

I suspect that the issue is simply deterioration in the sump gasket. From MY99 on, Rover did away with the sealant approach and use a (Viton?) rubber-type seal which, provided both aluminium surfaces are clean and dry, and the sump is tightened with due attention to order of tightening and torque (17ft lb) should fix the leaks. I should be at that stage of my rebuild late tomorrow...

There's a TSB about several of the bolts needing to be sealed also with "Hylomar" under the flanges but not on the threads (to reduce risk of oil contamination I assume)

The gasket is quite thick and has sturdy (rubber) dowels to locate it fairly securely on the sum before offering the pan up to the underside of the block... may be worth replacing it..

cheers

[p38arover]

There's a TSB about several of the bolts needing to be sealed also with "Hylomar" under the flanges but not on the threads (to reduce risk of oil contamination I assume)

there was a TSB about putting sealant on the threads of a couple of bolts that go through into the oil gallery or into the crankcase itself. I shall have to look at the TSBs and find it....

Curses, RAVE won't run....

[Hoges]

there was a TSB about putting sealant on the threads of a couple of bolts that go through into the oil gallery or into the crankcase itself. I shall have to look at the TSBs and find it....

Curses, RAVE won't run....

I stand humbled and corrected:wasntme:

from TB 0007 18 Mar 1998

" CAUSE:
On all V8 engines with cross bolted
main bearing caps, the drillings for the
four sump bolts indicated by the arrows
in the illustration, pass through to the
adjacent cross bolt holes.
It has been established that an oil leak
path can develop down the thread of
these sump bolts.
ACTION:
In the event of sump removal or oil
leakage around the heads of the sump
bolts, remove all traces of oil loss and
replace the bolts indicated in the
illustration of the sump underside, with
the bolts detailed in PARTS INFORMATION.
The new bolts incorporate a sealant patch and are fitted to V8 engines from the above VINs. ( prior to Range Rover VA 374947
Discovery VA 738466) VINs after this had the patch (presumably on the thread). When I withdrew my sump bolts they had no sealing patch on them:eek: Must have another look!

The respective bolts are numbers 1,2,4 & 5 as per RAVE tightening sequence. So the middle bolts 1&2 ...and, moving toward the front of the engine, the next one along on either side.
·

[PaulP38a]

Thanks Hoges, will look up RAVE now and see if my local LR guy can get the bolts and gasket in for me by the weekend.
If I am going to be stuffing around down there, might as well do it for peace of mind.

[Hoges]

Part Number is LSO 100000. These bolts were standard fitment on later (=Thor) engines according to Microcat. I'm thinking that some Loctite 577 thread sealant may do the trick ....!
cheers

[Hoges]

I'm at the stage of getting "organised" to put the sump pan back...
With the gasket set I ordered for same there is a plastic bag with 10 so-called "sealing washers" 2 of which are slightly smaller in diamerter. I was at a loss to work out what they're for...

While wiping down the underside of the block to mate with the sump pan I noticed that there is a tiny drop of oil on the flange of each of the cross-drill bolts ...hence the sealing washers I guess... these cross-drilled bolts could also be a source of your oil leaks.

I don't know if it is feasible to remove/replace these one by one and and renew the sealing washers...

It's also interesting that the water pump bolts are metric while the timing cover bolts are 5/16th UNC:eek: why do they do this...:mad:

[Keithy P38]

You can use it to tell what parts are likely an American item (and will probably be a Buick sourced part) and what parts are ridgey didge pommy...

[Hoges]

UPdate: Paul if you can't get the new bolts, use the existing ones with a strip of Loctite 249. It comes in a roll like PTFE plumbers' tape. You can wrap the thread and leave it for later ...acts as a 'patch'. cheers

[PaulP38a]

Thanks Hoges. All going to plan, the new gasket, bolts and sump plug will arrive on Friday.

Good to have a backup plan though.

Cheers, Paul.

[PaulP38a]

Got the new bits yesterday (thanks to Ray and Cathy at Canberra Motor Works).

Now just got to get more oil, and wait for the weather to ease up a little so I can hit the engine with de-greaser and the Gerni. Then take the car for a run and see where the leak is.

Ray made a good suggestion of checking the engine breather for blockages. If it can't breathe, it will build up pressure and push air/oil out wherever it can...

Will post some pics of the new bits later for reference... here they are:
rubber-ish sump gasket with locating lugs
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/5950-1/IMG_0168.JPG

one of the locating lugs
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/5956-1/IMG_0171.JPG

Sump bolt (1 of 14?) with thread goo
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/5953-1/IMG_0170.JPG



Cheers, Paul.

[PaulP38a]

So, I de-greased the bottom of the engine, topped up the oil and took the Rangie for a run to get the engine warm. When I got back and looked underneath there was no sign of an oil leak. Maybe I didn't run it long/hard enough.
Let the engine cool down for about 20 minutes, then jacked up the front with a high-lift jack and drained the oil. With the sump removed, I could still see no obvious source of leakage as it was all pretty filthy
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/5967-1/IMG_0174.JPG

Only the three nuts at the front of the sump had washers, and they look to be reusable. None of the 14 bolts had washers.

Dirty at the flywheel side but no pools of oil.
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/5964-2/IMG_0173.JPG

Both of the vertical bolts at the transmission end had plastic/rubber sleeves (you can see a bit of one in the pic above) which are now destroyed. Is this a problem, or can I just put a dab of gasket goo on the bolts when I put them back?

Spent a couple of hours giving the sump a good clean with de-greaser, WD-40 and a selection of scouring brushes. Cleanest it has been under my ownership
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/5973-1/IMG_0176.JPG

http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/5979-1/IMG_0178.JPG

See the notch in the bottom of the bellhousing in the pic below? I guess that is supposed to be open to allow water/oil to drain out? I don't remember seeing any plug in there.
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/5988-2/IMG_0181.JPG

Tomorrow I will clean the mating surfaces on the engine side and put it back together...

[Hoges]

Hi Paul
the three nuts at the front end require washers to prevent galling. The bolts are flanged for that purpose. Mine had no plastic sleeves etc on the two vertical recessed bolts...it's the first time I suspect they'd been removed.

You appear to be missing a rubber "bung" from the rear wall of the sump (photo 2 -RHS).

I put a very small dab of antiseize under the flange of each bolt and then, using a 13mm socket on the end of a 1/4" drive extension bar attached to a 12V drill on minimum torque setting, drove the bolts home in rough sequence..they barely touched before the drill clutch kicked in. I then tightened them up to spec. in two steps in the 'RAVE' sequence. It saved a lot of time!

(Have had to put the rest of the job on hold for the next 4 weeks: the heads are on but the whole engine is now wrapped in polythene sheet and gaffa tape:()

Like I mentioned previously, keep an eye on the health of the seals under the flanges of the cross drilling bolts just above the lip of the sump... am sure some of mine are 'weeping' ever so slightly from there...
cheers

[PaulP38a]

Thanks Hoges. Both rubber bungs are accounted for, the other was already removed.
Studying my own photos closer last night, I suspect the leak may have been at the gasket at the bell housing. Will know soon enough if it returns.
That sucks having to leave yours for four weeks. So close...

Cheers, Paul.

[Hoges]

Don't forget the thin bead of RTV across the bell housing / front cover joins!!
cheers