Triathlon trailer

[Slunnie]

I'm not sure if there is a lot of interest, but I'll be constructing a triathlon trailer over the next week or so (hopefully). I'll post its construction up here if people want to see it come together. Todays start wasn't as quick as I'd expected - I never factored in not being able to lift the chassis members and only barely able to drag them! :eek:

It's a tandem 8100 long x2400 wide x2000 high box + drawbar and drop down tail ramp with tubbed wheels. They want bikes down both walls and on the roof. It'll come up at about 2t + load.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/122.jpg

[easo]

Everyone likes a trailer build.

[Slunnie]

Everyone likes a trailer build.
No probs.

[slug_burner]

are the rails 150x50? how thick?

[Slunnie]

Yes the rails are 150 x 50 x 4, the crossmember's 150 x 50 x 3 and the drawbar 150 x 50 x 5.

[slug_burner]

That is some heavy duty material. I was going to do a car carrier with 2.5 and 3mm. Might have to reconsider.

[Slunnie]

If you do the main rails from 75 x 50 x 4 and the drawbar from 100 x 50 x 4 it will be extra extra strong. When you put the sides on the car trailer it produces a truss structure and this makes it extremely rigid. The triathlon trailer does not have this in a way that acts directly on the chassis rails, so needs very strong chassis rails to minimise flexing with such a large rear overhang. I also like the main rails to be heavy in the wall thickness to insure the suspension mounts don't pull out which they will do with a light wall, so unless it's a 750kg box we normally don't use 3mm wall main rails and never 2mm for them.

[roverrescue]

Simon
did you consider using structurals for the rails like PFC?
will you ladder truss the ain chassis rails?

S

[Slunnie]

Simon
did you consider using structurals for the rails like PFC?
will you ladder truss the ain chassis rails?

S
Interesting point that brings us back to the good ol' days of trailer design and flashbacks of the RHS Vs Angle debates. I hadn't really thought too much about it to be honest. There is a hire trailer getting around here with a channel drawbar which I have looked at sceptically, but admittedly it's not bent. I guess I've generally preferred RHS type sections because I've always thought that it transfers forces efficiently throughout the structure in a number of ways and its easy to intersect with other members - but thats not to say that PFC's haven't been designed to be as good or better.

Just doing the ladder trusses as we speak. Heavy buggers, I can barely lift each arm of the drawbar - perhaps I need more gym time! Still haven't worked out how I'm going to flip the chassis! I think I'll be upsidedown welding instead. :mad:

Oh! Brainwave....... weld the mounts onto the chassis rails then the chassis together. Drawbar onto the front crossbar and then the crossbar into the chassis rails. Ok, problem just solved, thanks Steve!:D

[Graeme]

I never factored in not being able to lift the chassis members and only barely able to drag them! :eek:
92 Kg each - not surprising they're a little hard to lift!

[Slunnie]

92 Kg each - not surprising they're a little hard to lift!
True!

The metal for the drawbar was 113kg per length. I just about burst a hernia on that one! The pallet jack was only so capable for manouvering.

[Graeme]

I did some calcs on the weight of duplicating the chassis of my small van. However the extra weight used-up too much of the increased hub capacity available with heavier hubs so the van will only get a heavier duty and more supple axle/suspension conversion.

[Slunnie]

Couple of hours on it tonight.

Interesting strategies - we usually construct the chassis upsidedown, add the drawbar, coupling plate and suspension mounts and then flip the chassis and add wheels. This is way too heavy to flip, so calculated and tacked the suspension mounts in. Setup the drawbar for welding also. Will weld the drawbar to the front Xmember and flip it before welding that assembly into the chassis. Will also flip the main chassis rails and weld them in (waiting for rear spring perches). Hopefully more metal and parts will turn up tomorrow to keep this progressing - looking forward to finishing the chassis, it has been very slow.



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1705.jpg

[Slunnie]

A days work and it still looks the same!

Suspension mounts, flipped, squared up and welded. Metal arrived this afternoon, so body starts tomorrow.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1634.jpg

[slug_burner]

It looks long. Did you use the full 8100 length for the rails?

[Slunnie]

Yes, the rails are 8 m long plus the front and rear cross members which are both 50 mm wide. This brings the length to 8100. The drawbar is another 1650 bringing the total length to just under 10 m.

[Slunnie]

Belly welding

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1563.jpg

Layed out the floor joists and side rail. Jeez the Vert up welds cause some contraction! Half of the joists and the frame are tacked, will do the rest tommorow.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1564.jpg

[Disco Muppet]

Do you get a big yank tank chevy to tow it with? :D
Looking good, will be interested to see it finished :)

[Slunnie]

It'll need it! :lol2:

[Graeme]

Will the trailer and tow vehicle be long enough to qualify for 'do not overtake turning vehicle' signs? Turning left from a dual lane road is going to cause the tail to swing out just a little.

[Slunnie]

That's an interesting point Graham! I'm not sure of the qualifies for those signs, but I'll have a look when I get to work today. It will be interesting with the tail of it when turning too, the legal maximum overhang is 3.7 m from the rear axle, this is 3.5 m to the axle sets centreline, Not that this diminishes its ability to wipe out a car in the next line.

[87County]

.................Turning left from a dual lane road is going to cause the tail to swing out just a little.

In cases like this it can be helpful to use indicators / hazards as appropriate and occupy the two lanes .... :)

[Graeme]

In cases like this it can be helpful to use indicators / hazards as appropriate and occupy the two lanes .... :)
Only if its legal to do so. Fitting a do not overtake... sign does not make it legal to occupy 2 lanes or to turn from the outside lane as minimum length requirements must be met.

[Redback]

7Mtrs is the required length, so I'd say Simons car trailer combination qualifies:D

Baz.

[Graeme]

Just squeezes in Baz? Actually that seems rather short.

Edit: 7.5 metres but still quite a lot shorter than what I remembered.

[Redback]

Just squeezes in Baz? Actually that seems rather short.

Edit: 7.5 metres but still quite a lot shorter than what I remembered.

I thought I remember it as 21 feet, so just rounded it to 7mtrs, memory is fading I think:(

[Graeme]

My memory is perfect - the number 25 rings a bell.

[Slunnie]

The box is 27 foot long and the trailer is about 32 1/2 foot long. It should be long enough.

[roverrescue]

"This is way too heavy to flip"
Thats why when I built the shed in Cooktown it has a dirty great beam running across the rafters 3.5m up in the sky
450kg of Volvo TD deflected the beam about 10mm- Your 'lil box trailer could get flipped like a pancake and the beam wouldnt even cough ;) !!!!!

Simon - please tell me you will have further verticle trussing / ladder for the main chassis rails
With 2T load on such long members surely poxy 150 SHS is gonna banana before you even move it
Stiffness in the X direction (flange) vs weight is where PFC rules and is why it is used on equipment trailers and truck chassis (Rust control is the other huge positive)
As you say RHS is good for variable loadings but your floor joist system should cover the horizontal loadings pretty comprehensively
I fear you will need a whole swag more vertical stiffness

I would have a guess that a centrally supported 8 metre 150RHS4 used as a bearer would never be engineered for a live load of 2 tonne at 2 metre spacings (irrespective of the joists) - trundling down the road is a whole world more "live" than foot traffic

Are your guns big enough??

Steve

[slug_burner]

I might be a bit optimistic but I think that the 150x50x4 will be fine. The load is going to be distributed. Take a vehicle trailer, they are likely to be on 100x50 and probably 3mm material. The 150x50 is more than twice as stiff than the 100X50. Sure it is a longer cantilever but it is not carrying a car but triathlon equipment.

[roverrescue]

Load of 2T is load of 2T

A car trailer will generally have a top rail of something like 50SHS2 or so running the length of the chassis rails as a "tyre rail" this is essentially ladder stiffening and adds enormously to the vertical stiffness of the deck

The closest thing to this that I have worked on is an 8m boat trailer (overall trailer length 10m)
-main rails are 150RHS4 with a ladder truss of 16mm round bar spaced 150mm off the top of the rails for their full length (rungs every 250mm)
-It is a widely spaced triple with at least 3m of PFC to transfer the load to the chassis rails - (Simons loads its springs through 6 points direct to the rails = stress points)
-Overall load is greater than this thing but it still bends visibly when on road (lucky its simply a haul out trailer)

S

[Slunnie]

Joists were spaced off the floor sheets to prevent any culumlative error in the spacing. The joists, rails and chassis was all welded together.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1521.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1522.jpg

[Slunnie]

I see where you're coming from Steve, and to be honest I did struggle a bit in the design of this.... well, in the sense of gaining rigidity. The chassis rails were based on car carrying floats that are a similar length rather than truss/sided car trailers. We did a similar one about 2 years ago from 100 or 125x50 and the main concern was the flex that was generated after the axles. We ended up trussing it and it came out very stiff after that and you wouldn't believe the way it has been loaded since! :o This one has gone to 150x50 and that straight away has made a significant difference in its stiffness, probably twice as stiff (confirmed with the hightly scientific jump on it and test the flex test), especially after the Xmembers were welded in and then again the floor joists. When I designed it, thinking that even the 150x50x4 might flex around a bit, the floor joists space the floor plate up another 50mm, and when the floor is welded in, I'm hoping the structure of the floor will allow the chassis rails to act in a way that is similar to a 200x50 section chassis. Likewise the floor is also being used as the triangulation for the chassis to prevent lateral movement when turning corners etc.

In addition to this, the box which goes on top of it hopefully will also generate stiffness, similar to how a monocoque operates. The sides of the trailer are 2m high and sheeted in 1.6 hot rolled MS, and I tend to think that this is structural enough to also hopefully isolate a lot of the bending loads (not torsional) from being transferred into the chassis rails.

[Blknight.aus]

Load of 2T is load of 2T

A car trailer will generally have a top rail of something like 50SHS2 or so running the length of the chassis rails as a "tyre rail" this is essentially ladder stiffening and adds enormously to the vertical stiffness of the deck

The closest thing to this that I have worked on is an 8m boat trailer (overall trailer length 10m)
-main rails are 150RHS4 with a ladder truss of 16mm round bar spaced 150mm off the top of the rails for their full length (rungs every 250mm)
-It is a widely spaced triple with at least 3m of PFC to transfer the load to the chassis rails - (Simons loads its springs through 6 points direct to the rails = stress points)
-Overall load is greater than this thing but it still bends visibly when on road (lucky its simply a haul out trailer)

S


My money says that if hes got verticals every second floor joist and at the joist in the center of the axles then with some clever stressing during the construction of the stiffening diagonals and the roof he can shift some of the loading from the center out to the end like a center support wire stayed balance bridge.

[Slunnie]

My money says that if hes got verticals every second floor joist and at the joist in the center of the axles then with some clever stressing during the construction of the stiffening diagonals and the roof he can shift some of the loading from the center out to the end like a center support wire stayed balance bridge.
Verticals are going in with each joist, spacings of about 600 to help prevent the sides from turning into Rolfe Harris' wobble boards while being towed. The joists have prestressed the chassis, and currently sits dead flat with the trailer supports at it ends only so I'm hoping this isn't too big a problem when it lands on its wheels. The box will go on like this though, so hopefully will be setup to keep the trailer flat. I also tend to think that it will do as you describe.

[Blknight.aus]

Having had a closer look at the pictures....

Id guess at

if you put your verticals in at the ends of where your planning on running the tubs (so the joint of the first complete joust either end of the suspension) and joined them with 3 Xs (one on either side and one bowed up in the middle to give the roof a little rise to aid run off and to prevent roof sag) put all your verticles on, weld diagonals at the 4 corners that run back to the top of the box over the axles, support the chassis on the 4 corners add about 1/3 of the predicted payload to the center then weld the diagonals onto the top corner of the box you'd very neatly stiffen it up ready to have the axles and wheels bolted under.

based on the wifes mammoth trailer...

to eliminate the wobble board

you can go verticals every 1200 and then using some light 15mm right angle tacked between the verticals horizontally (between 800 and 1200)and some good sikaflex or spot welds and the sheetings not going to move, especially not if you do your attachements from the center out. If I had to redo the wifes trailer again about the only thing ID do differently would be to stagger the horizontal supports between the verticals.

oh yeah,

whatever youre going to do, mock it up with dowels and string first. Its a pain to get everything in and then realise that the weld you want to do you now cant because youve already welded in a member and its blocking your access to the spot you want to weld....

[roverrescue]

First off - let it be known Im a shade tree hack
But I still think an engineer would baulk at the design (even though you dont need engineering signoff)
Relying on a 2m high twisting and turning sheet metal box to support the chassis seems fraught?

As you say those 28 welds across the top of each rail should have prestressed (cupped) the rails upwards - It is weird out how it sits flat supported at the each end and with the welds? I would have guessed it would have pre stressed a noticeable amount by now ie cupped convex up?
maybe for a test jack the chassis rails up at the mid point and put them on a pair of axle stands measure the deflection!

Also rather than welding the spring hangers direct to the underside of your main structural would there be value in making a sliding suspension frame that will remove point loadings (welds across the chassis) and also allow you to perfectly balance the rig once she is completed?

S

[Piddler]

I just want to see the bloody great thing loaded up being towed :wasntme:

[Slunnie]

Made the roof frame this afternoon, and stuck it up on stilts.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1471.jpg

and a few studs to hold the roof up and support the wall structure before checking the frame for square and welding up. .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1472.jpg

1 of 16 wall sheets done!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1473.jpg

[roverrescue]

If only you could bolt an axle or three to a shipping container!
Think of the time savings and it would probably be lighter too!!!!! ;)

Im thinking that will be a "two person lift" when it comes time to put some running gear under her!

S

[Landy Smurf]

i like the build, looks like you are doing a top job on it. Your workshop is very good also even has safety paths. I was just wondering what will be towing this?

[Slunnie]

i like the build, looks like you are doing a top job on it. Your workshop is very good also even has safety paths. I was just wondering what will be towing this?
Thanks, I'm not a fan of mess in the workshops, so try to keep it clean.

It'll be towed by 4wds. The school Rosa's and Commuters dont have enough tow capacity unfortunately.

[Blknight.aus]

If only you could bolt an axle or three to a shipping container!
Think of the time savings and it would probably be lighter too!!!!! ;)

Im thinking that will be a "two person lift" when it comes time to put some running gear under her!

S

You're not going to belive it but there are such beasts, They stack and are very little more than a diamondish shaped frame with a long central beam with an eye and pintle at either end, a pair of triangles with locators on them and a pair of wheeled axles.

Max speed 5kph with 5 at a time and they're intended to move bunches of empty containers around docks.

you can also get end lifters that are basically a set of wheels with suspension and steering that bolts onto the bottom and top twist lock recepticals making a container a dog trailer.

[Slunnie]

Still plugging along. Both walls squared up and a couple of sheets welded in. 2/3rds of the floor has been cut in too. Getting there.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/733.jpg

Is that Jesus giving me some advice from the side of the trailer?

Carpe diam.......

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/734.jpg

[Disco Muppet]

Looks more like zoidberg from Futurama :D
Oh, and it's "diem" not "diam"....
Just sayin.....:wasntme:
Will they just use the D40 they've got?
Can't think of anything else they've got that will tow it.

[Slunnie]

hmmm, diem.

D40 or personal vehicles... or a prime mover.

[Disco Muppet]

they should have bought a landie :D

[weeds]

coming along nicely.....

[Gillie]

Haven't you finished this yet? :D

Always love a trailer build!

[mick88]

Fantastic workshop!
That trailer is going to be a ripper.
Shed and trailers are two of my favourite things!
Some expensive looking materials there, I bet the cheque book is getting a hiding!
Every time I buy steel it seems to have had a dramatic price rise from the previous purchase.


Cheers, Mick.

[justinc]

Still plugging along. Both walls squared up and a couple of sheets welded in. 2/3rds of the floor has been cut in too. Getting there.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/733.jpg

Is that Jesus giving me some advice from the side of the trailer?

Carpe diam.......

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/734.jpg

:o:o
Face of Jesus appears in toast - YouTube

quick, it is a sign! this trailer must immediately be moved to a place of reverence and become a shrine to believers from far and wide! think of the money to be made! the t shirts, mugs AND you could even get your pic taken next to it....and later, when the religious fervour has died down, you can list it on Ebay US....:p

looking good as a trailer though, simon..:D

jc

[Slunnie]

Looks more like zoidberg from Futurama :D
Oh, and it's "diem" not "diam"....
Just sayin.....:wasntme:
Will they just use the D40 they've got?
Can't think of anything else they've got that will tow it.

Or.......

Salad fingers! :D

Salad Fingers 2 - Friends - YouTube

[Slunnie]

Fantastic workshop!
That trailer is going to be a ripper.
Shed and trailers are two of my favourite things!
Some expensive looking materials there, I bet the cheque book is getting a hiding!
Every time I buy steel it seems to have had a dramatic price rise from the previous purchase.


Cheers, Mick.

Thanks Mick and all for your encouragement!

You're right, the cost of metal keeps you on your toes! This is for my works triathlon team, so fortunately I'm not paying the bills for this one. I've got a very good rapport with our steel merchants so we dont pay close to retail, but it is still expensive. The cost of steel fluctuates, and likewise we dont pay the some one week compared to the next. The Chinese demands had costs go through the roof and then the GFC brought the prices back down again as demand dropped. I think its trending back up again.

[Slunnie]

:o:o
quick, it is a sign! this trailer must immediately be moved to a place of reverence and become a shrine to believers from far and wide! think of the money to be made! the t shirts, mugs AND you could even get your pic taken next to it....and later, when the religious fervour has died down, you can list it on Ebay US....:p

looking good as a trailer though, simon..:D

jc


Thanks JC, I'll list it now!

Well, not that I actually own it. :(

Which means it's a better return for me! :D


I forgot to take a picture this afternoon. :(

[cjc_td5]

Looks great Slunnie.
I just hope it will fit out through the door when finished! :D

Cheers,
CC

[Disco Muppet]

Or.......

Salad fingers! :D


:eek::eek::eek::eek:
That thing scares the bejeezus out of me! :eek:
Almost more than when dad woke me up by poking me and saying "come to candy mountain charlie" :eek: :D
He's a funny bugger my dad :D
Looks good, but I've worked out the real reason for you making it.
You're going to use it to disassemble my disco, so you can make off with all my shiny straight panels, motor, gearbox, etc without needing a car trailer :twisted:
I'm watching you.... :p
Looking good, you'll be able to fit the rowing gear in so they can sell off all the other trailers ;)
Cheers
Muppet

[Slunnie]

Looks great Slunnie.
I just hope it will fit out through the door when finished! :D

Cheers,
CC
Chris I hope it fits through the door too! A few people have asked how I'm getting it out. The door its poking through is 2600 and the next door is 3600, so it should hopefully be ok...... hopefully. Nothing the plasma cutter wont fix.

[Slunnie]

Bit more today. Sides are on, and thinking a door might be good at the front rather than another sheet. Save opening the heavy back door everytime.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1280.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1281.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1282.jpg

Somebody was commenting??? on the workshop. That part is an annex to the side of the workshop that then opens into a shed. Here is a pic of some of the workshop. Apologies for the mess. :mad:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1283.jpg

[Disco Muppet]

ZOMBIE PROOF TRAILER!
You're a genius slunnie ;)
Give us a buzz when you're moving it, I want to see this thing move! :D
Cheers
Muppet

[Slunnie]

ZOMBIE PROOF TRAILER!
You're a genius slunnie ;)
Give us a buzz when you're moving it, I want to see this thing move! :D
Cheers
Muppet
It'll be interesting getting it out!

Actually it'll be interesting lifting it onto its wheels also.

[Disco Muppet]

It'll be interesting getting it out!

Actually it'll be interesting lifting it onto its wheels also.

you have to hope there's no traffic, it's a shocker in the arfternoons :(
straight out the doors and up the oval hill, or is there room for it to go back towards the gym slightly?
Cheers
Muppet

[Slunnie]

you have to hope there's no traffic, it's a shocker in the arfternoons :(
straight out the doors and up the oval hill, or is there room for it to go back towards the gym slightly?
Cheers
Muppet
Hopefully thought the first door just, and then the next door is another metre wider so a jiggle out through there and then off down the road past the Prep. Next stop is Top Valley and I'll camp in it for a few days. :D

.... or the painters. :(

[Disco Muppet]

Hopefully thought the first door just, and then the next door is another metre wider so a jiggle out through there and then off down the road past the Prep. Next stop is Top Valley and I'll camp in it for a few days. :D

.... or the painters. :(

:eek::eek::eek:
What are you going to use to get it out to TV?!
Got a spare Chinook or something have you? :p
I'm glad I'm going now lol

[Alessandro8100]

Still plugging along. Both walls squared up and a couple of sheets welded in. 2/3rds of the floor has been cut in too. Getting there.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/733.jpg

Is that Jesus giving me some advice from the side of the trailer?

Carpe diam.......

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/734.jpg
Really done nice job there...The display you present for us is inspiring and very professional...like it!

[Slunnie]

Really done nice job there...The display you present for us is inspiring and very professional...like it!
Thanks Alessandro, your positive feedback is greatly appreciated. The trailer is away being painted at the moment, but this is where it was up to when I last took some pics.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/725.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/726.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/727.jpg

[Disco Muppet]

:eek:
How does it behave under tow?

[Slunnie]

:eek:
How does it behave under tow?
Haven't towed it far but it was fine. It needs to do corners in a more truck like manner.