TD5 Wont start

[bitdist]

I was checking a few things this afternoon on the defender and it was idling along fine. I turned it off and then a few minutes later went to start it up again and it turns over fine, gives a little kick as if it is going to start and then nothing.... keeps turning over. If I turn it off again and then on again it will do the same thing, give a little kick then nothing, just turning over via the stater motor.

Battery is fully charged
tried disconnecting the battery to reset CPU for 10 minutes
Fuel pump sounds fine
Fuel filter changed a couple of weeks ago

I connected Nanocom and the only fault of any relevance maybe was " 28-07 topside switch failed pre injection" Googling around this does not seem to be a very nice code to have, but I cleared it and it has not come back at all

What is the thoughts out there...
CPU cactus
what about crank angle sensor (where is it and how to test??)

Any other wisdom

cheers

Tim

[LandyAndy]

Crank angle sensor is on the belhousing,right hand(drivers) side.I would try replacing that before you get too worked up.I carry one in my D2 just in case;););),then again I also carry a spare ECU.
GOODLUCK
Andrew

[djam1]

Nice cheap TD5 Defender ECU on ebay at the moment
The listing doesnt say but its not an NNN ECU so if your Defender predates 2001 it should be fine.
I suspect the topside injection error is terminal

[bitdist]

Nice cheap TD5 Defender ECU on ebay at the moment
The listing doesnt say but its not an NNN ECU so if your Defender predates 2001 it should be fine.
I suspect the topside injection error is terminal

Thanks for the tip.
I just replaced the crank angle sensor but its not that.
Now to look on Ebay!

[djam1]

http://bit.ly/R5F18O

Here you go

[bitdist]

Bought !

Even if for some reason it turns out to be something else it will make a good spare for remote trips.

Hope that is what is is though.....

[bitdist]

Update....

It isn't the ECU, but I started having a good look around with Nanocom and it says
"ECU is immobilized"

Even though:
1. there is no light on at the dash
2. I have told it to learn the security code which it says it does sucessfully
3. Pressed the inertia switch (but it cant be that as the fuel pump still works)
4. Tried resetting the security to the 3 Australian versions
5. Disabled everything I can on the setting page of the security


Any other ideas:(:(

[LandyAndy]

Have you checked for oil in the harness???
Also Check the connector at the lh front of the head for oil,where the loom plugs into the injector loom.
Clean it with metho spirits or CO spray if any signs of oil.
Any chance its been miss-fueled with petrol??? They dont like starting on petrol,the pump will sound noisier than normal.
Andrew

[bob10]

From my RAVE cd, the ckp is fitted on the transmission housing with its lip adjacent to the outer circumference of the flywheel.
If it fails;
engine cranks but fails to start
mil light remains on all the time
engine may misfire, [incorrectly fitted ckp]
engine rough or stalls[ incorrectly fitted ckp]

There is no back up for the ckp, if it fails, engine stops and will not start.
Mate,I 'm certainly not an expert, but I can highly reccommend buying the RAVE cd for your vehicle. Bob

[djam1]

From the Nanocom manual

Learn security code: When the ignition is turned on, the BCU or Alarm, providing it is in receipt of a valid transmitted Key Fob code and is therefore not in an alarmed or immobilised state, sends a coded data transmission to the TD5 ECU. The TD5 ECU then decodes this data and compares the code contained in it against a mobilisation code it
has stored in it. If the two codes compare OK, the TD5 will allow the engine to start. This forms the basis of the immobiliser. If the TD5 ECU, the BCU, or the Alarm is changed, it may be required for the TD5 ECU to re-learn a new mobilisation code. This
is done by using this function to put the TD5 ECU into Security learn mode. After setting the TD5 ECU into learn mode it is required to turn off the ignition for 15 seconds, then back on. Receipt and acceptance of a valid code can be verified by viewing the 'Immobilisation Status' in the 'Other' section.

Hope this helps

[bitdist]

Have you checked for oil in the harness???
Also Check the connector at the lh front of the head for oil,where the loom plugs into the injector loom.
Clean it with metho spirits or CO spray if any signs of oil.
Any chance its been miss-fueled with petrol??? They dont like starting on petrol,the pump will sound noisier than normal.
Andrew

Yes, I have checked both ends and no oil there
definitely not petrol in there

[bitdist]

From my RAVE cd, the ckp is fitted on the transmission housing with its lip adjacent to the outer circumference of the flywheel.
If it fails;
engine cranks but fails to start
mil light remains on all the time
engine may misfire, [incorrectly fitted ckp]
engine rough or stalls[ incorrectly fitted ckp]

There is no back up for the ckp, if it fails, engine stops and will not start.
Mate,I 'm certainly not an expert, but I can highly reccommend buying the RAVE cd for your vehicle. Bob

I have changed the CKP for a new one and no difference.
I do have a rave CD, just can't find it at the moment

[bitdist]

I seems still to be something to do with ECU immobilized..

If I read the settings for the Immobilizer it has nothing in the fields for year, week and serial number. They are all blank.
That doesn't look right. but would need to confirm by someone looking in their ECU at the same spot

[justinc]

I have had a defender Td5 10AS alarm ecu fail, intermittent immobilisation and all that. This is the unit that generates the unlock code to the engine ECU to enable it to start. It is behind the dash binnacle against the firewall, a green box.

JC

[djam1]

I read on one of the UK Land Rover sites that a bad earth on the ECU can cause issues like this.
Might be worth a check

[djam1]

Justin are all AS10 s the same was interested in getting a spare and will be at TRS this week

[justinc]

no, there are 2 frequencies, 315mhz and 433mhz. there are also a few changes over the years adding and subtracting features iirc. best thing to do is read the part number off yours, and get another one from the same model year.
if you want, pm me the part number and i'll see if i have one?


jc

[bitdist]

no, there are 2 frequencies, 315mhz and 433mhz. there are also a few changes over the years adding and subtracting features iirc. best thing to do is read the part number off yours, and get another one from the same model year.
if you want, pm me the part number and i'll see if i have one?


jc


Hi Justin, I have been looking at the green box wondering what it all means !!

Mine says

AMR 6430
10AS-315
52010379A
1279253
27/00


In Nanocom if I go to:
def alarm
setting
read settings

Under alarm coding data down in the bottom section I have nothing.
The first 3 fields are year , week, serial number

I am assuming that each green box has its own serial number and year and week that must be put in for it to work ??

Looking at my numbers above could the year be 2000 and 27 for the week ??

[bitdist]

I read on one of the UK Land Rover sites that a bad earth on the ECU can cause issues like this.
Might be worth a check

I have checked the earth on the battery across to the ECU case and there is 0 ohms between them, or are we talking a different earth (I would be surprised if any earth coming in on the plug is not earthed to the case anyway)

[goingbush]

Its not good enough to just check an earth with a ohm meter, a zero ohm earth can for all intents and purposes go open cct under load. The only way to confirm an earth fault is to run a new cable from neg battery post to the component in question. It pays to run new / redundant earth cables from engine block to chassis, chassis to body, battery to chassis, battery to ECU ,
chassis to loom earth etc etc . Aluminium is conductive, but Aluminium oxide is not - that is the white stuff you find under your body earth lugs and between your body / chassis connections.

[djam1]

From what I can see your AS10 was superseeded to YWC106260

[bitdist]

Its not good enough to just check an earth with a ohm meter, a zero ohm earth can for all intents and purposes go open cct under load. The only way to confirm an earth fault is to run a new cable from neg battery post to the component in question. It pays to run new / redundant earth cables from engine block to chassis, chassis to body, battery to chassis, battery to ECU ,
chassis to loom earth etc etc . Aluminium is conductive, but Aluminium oxide is not - that is the white stuff you find under your body earth lugs and between your body / chassis connections.

If the ECU is earthed through its case then it is earthed!. I have a new cable running from the negative of the battery post to one of the bolts that hold the ECU down

[OffTrack]

There are 4 earth wires at left end of the black ECU plug when looking from the back of the plug. Pins 1,2, 23,24 from memory. The case is probably grounded for RF shielding given there is what looks like a switch mode PS inside.

[bitdist]

:banana::banana::banana::ehigh5::ehigh5::arms::arm s:

It works !

After much reading and trial and error it was the alarm coding section which seems to have been the problem.

On the sticker on the unit in the dash is the week and year and serial number that must be put in.
so on mine the sticker was 27/00
The year is 2000 and the week is 27
The serial number is the next number up from it

Down further in the field that says what type of immobiliser it connects too, in the MEMS/TD5 field i found a doc that said you can put what you like in there, between 0 and about 65000 from memory, so I put in 1234

Then told the ECU to learn the code and then it worked !!

The only thing left I have is the engine light on, with no errors (that are relevant) recorded)
But I am sure it is still in the defender alarm section as I have changed so many things in there trying to fix it.
I have now saved the settings so I can go through and change them and see which one it is doing it

thanks all fro your input

[bitdist]

Also I was wondering how often the AS10 does fail. It seems like it would be another show stopper if it failed in the middle of somewhere remote.
Might be another thing to add to the list of parts to take

[justinc]

They fail from time to time, although not common IT IS a show stopper if you are remote.

JC

[Tombie]

TD5 ECUs can be modified to not need the link - no more show stopper :cool:

[bob10]

TD5 ECUs can be modified to not need the link - no more show stopper :cool:
Is it a difficult mod., ? Bob

[bitdist]

Hi Bob
when I was reading through the AS10 manual I came across the following (Try at your own risk !!!- back up first)
The last line may be pertinent, but I suspect the ECU still talks to the AS10 even with these options


Plip immobilise: This setting configures the alarm to not immobilize the vehicle whenever the vehicle is locked using the plip. Setting this to NO effectively turns off engine immobilization protection when the plip is used to arm the alarm although it does not affect the immobilization when the key is used or the alarm itself . This can be disabled using the KEY IMMOBILISE and the ALARM ARMING. Turning off all three literally turns the alarm ECU into a central locking controller only.

[harro]

Hi Bob
when I was reading through the AS10 manual I came across the following (Try at your own risk !!!- back up first)
The last line may be pertinent, but I suspect the ECU still talks to the AS10 even with these options


Plip immobilise: This setting configures the alarm to not immobilize the vehicle whenever the vehicle is locked using the plip. Setting this to NO effectively turns off engine immobilization protection when the plip is used to arm the alarm although it does not affect the immobilization when the key is used or the alarm itself . This can be disabled using the KEY IMMOBILISE and the ALARM ARMING. Turning off all three literally turns the alarm ECU into a central locking controller only.

And I suspect that you are right!
The ECU has a 'Robust' And 'non Robust' mode.
The non robust mode allows the ECU to run the engine without talking to the AS10 module however I have read:angel: that once the ECU has talked to the AS10 module and established a security link it goes into Robust mode and this cannot be reversed.
The non robust mode was there for vehicles not fitted with the AS10 module.
If I can find where I read it I will post it.

However it looks like someone may have found a way around this.
So disabling the immobiliser function with a Nanocom or other similar device probably does not stop the ECU checking with the AS10 module before allowing the engine to start.

Tombie has pointed out that breaking the link is possible so I to would be interested in disabling this 'show stopper'.

Cheers,
Paul.

Edit; Found It!:D

[Tombie]

Is it a difficult mod., ? Bob

ECU reprogram job....

Best left to B-A-S :)

[bob10]

ECU reprogram job....

Best left to B-A-S :)
Yep, lost me at reprogram, I'll stick to filling the esky, Bob

[ru528]

This happened to me a couple of times and all I did was press the fuel cut-off button under the bonnet near the windscreen - good to go

[chipha]

I seem to have exact problem. reading through your updates am amazed how semilar the problem is to the one l have. BUT l can not quite follow how you resolved it. As l am a layman on cars are you able to draws some pictures, so to speak, how you resolved this problem.