Tow assist

[White D4]

Hi

I was looking at getting the Alko trailer assist fitted to our 24ft caravan but might be upgrading to the D4 3lt next year, does anyone know if the 2 would conflict?

Cheers

[mowog]

I have asked Alko this question. They say it wont.

[sniegy]

From finding out more info today i also beleive it will be all ok.
It has 2 yaw sensors fitted to the chassis & from what i beleive it will sensor, pitch yaw etc etc & apply the brakes when required, so it may just work in conjuction with the D4 system.

Cheers

[justinc]

I think it is a long overdue inclusion to trailers/ vans, fantastic stuff!


JC

[camel_landy]

Technically, what you're talking about is 'Trailer Stability Assist'. 'Tow Assist' is a different system. ;)

In theory, the car will just respond to any movement it senses. So, if the other system is doing its job, the D4 won't do anything but anything gets past the other system, the D4 should just deal with it.

Personally though, the D4 system is so good, I'd prefer to just run with that.

Land Rover Trailer Stability technology - YouTube

If you've not seen it, check the tyre smoke at 0:18... :eek:

M

[swordfish805]

To even have any risk of the two systems not inter-operating you'd have to get the LR Trailer Stability Assist to work in the first place. Mine steadfastly refuses to recognise the van is hitched up (problem is LR in England have never heard of caravans with LED lights so have designed the car to recognise vans/trailers with incandescant globes only). Repeat visits back to the dealer and to auto-electricians not withstanding. Have now bought a pulsebuster as last resort....

Why, oh why do LR have to be so patronising in car design? I don't need the car to figure out there is a blood trailer connected - I can see it! Why can't TSA be activated manually by the user each time the engine starts?

[mervwho]

To even have any risk of the two systems not inter-operating you'd have to get the LR Trailer Stability Assist to work in the first place. Mine steadfastly refuses to recognise the van is hitched up (problem is LR in England have never heard of caravans with LED lights so have designed the car to recognise vans/trailers with incandescant globes only). Repeat visits back to the dealer and to auto-electricians not withstanding. Have now bought a pulsebuster as last resort....

Why, oh why do LR have to be so patronising in car design? I don't need the car to figure out there is a blood trailer connected - I can see it! Why can't TSA be activated manually by the user each time the engine starts?

I forgot to activate it on one leg of a recent trip and it wasn't long before I thought I had a flat, stopped and checked, no flat just stupid me for not activating tow assist. Won't happen again. Van has LED lights not a problem.

[swordfish805]

But how do you activate it? I thought the D4 does it automatically when it senses (via the lights) that there is a trailer connected (when it does, you get the trailer symbol on the dash). Is there a way to override the automatic feature and turn on the trailer stability functions manually?

[mowog]

I believe the system is active regardless of what lights are detected.

I know it works.

[mervwho]

The system knows that a trailer/van is connected, I run through the set up each time I plug the van in and on completion it tells me that tow assist is now activated for that particular trailer/van. If towing the same each time, it is simply enter, enter, enter, if I go from the van to a smaller trailer, different measurement/input is required to suit that particular towed vehicle. It is not rocket science just a matter of following the bouncing ball on the screen.
When it comes to LED lights on a towed vehicle I have never had a problem in the D4.
Mowog has been towing vans for a lot longer than I probably ever will, so he would be the correct person to point your questions to, he has been extremely helpful to me on numerous occasions

Cheers

Merv

[rufusking]

Let's not confuse "Tow Assist" with "Trailer Stability Assist". One helps you drive the trailer backwards the other stops the trailer driving the car. Now which one is which?

[camel_landy]

Let's not confuse "Tow Assist" with "Trailer Stability Assist". One helps you drive the trailer backwards the other stops the trailer driving the car. Now which one is which?
* Tow Assist - Trailer reversing.
* Trailer Stability Assist - Stops snaking.

Although the title says 'Tow Assist', the OP is talking about 'Trailer Stability Assist'.

M

[swordfish805]

Yes, and it's trailer stability assist that is switched on by the Disco when it senses a van/trailer is draining current to run its lights (and if there are LEDs on the van it won't detect it 98% of the time).

Why, oh why have Land Rover not simply allowed the driver to switch this function on? I guess the sub-standard vans they have in the UK don't yet have LEDs......

[camel_landy]

Yes, and it's trailer stability assist that is switched on by the Disco when it senses a van/trailer is draining current to run its lights (and if there are LEDs on the van it won't detect it 98% of the time).

Why, oh why have Land Rover not simply allowed the driver to switch this function on? I guess the sub-standard vans they have in the UK don't yet have LEDs......
Nope... Other way around.

Tow Assist is activated by plugging in the electrics.

Trailer Stability Assist (Anti-snaking) will work even without the electrics connected. Check the vid at 0:40.

M

[swordfish805]

That half meshes with what the dealership told me - Trailer Stability operates all the time (basically it is just the ESC function) but when it detects a trailer is attached it moves up a notch - it applies the brakes in a different fashion.

Also, they explained to me, that some other related functions are dependent on the trailer being detected - for example, the Disco won't raise or lower the suspension if travelling at speed with a trailer connected.

In any case, I still think a better implementation would be a switch or setting the user activates to switch on the trailer functions rather than this hit or miss automatic trailer detection.

[camel_landy]

In any case, I still think a better implementation would be a switch or setting the user activates to switch on the trailer functions rather than this hit or miss automatic trailer detection.
You can argue that the other way too... Better to have an auto function than to have a numpty driver forget. ;)

It really is very simple to make it an auto function. It also makes for less clutter on the dash.

As for your comment about the changing height at speed... You have to be doing over 150kph for that to happen anyway!! :eek:

M

[swordfish805]

With respect, you're missing the point. LR have tried to make this an auto function but the implementation is clearly a fail - not just for me (had the car for 7 months have spent hundreds of dollars and cannot get the trailer functions to work properly with a caravan that meets all Australian standards) but also for others - witness all the posts on here with people querying how to get the Discos to work properly with towing, brake lights, indicators etc.

Yes, having an auto-function does mean that it isn't left to the driver, but the reverse is also patently true - the car frequently "forgets" about it as well (eg my case).

A really good implementation would be an automatic function that can also be switched on by the user if required/desired and which is switched off each time the ignition is turned off.

This is definitely costing LR market share amongst the caravan fraternity - particularly when coupled with the Disco's air suspension and confusion about weight distribution hitches (a piece of kit that may toyota owners are absolutely wedded to, rightly or wrongly).

[mowog]

What functions cant you make work?

The Trailer stability assist will work even if the trailer electrics are not connected, so there is no requirement to have it switchable in anyway. The Tow Assist only apply's to D4's with multiple cameras so if you only have a single camera it wont be on your D4 again connection to the trailer electrics is irrelevant because this feature is used to help you hitch up.

If you are having issues making LED tail lights work well there are simple fixes for that as well. This LED light issue isn't limited to the D4 either.

[mowog]

This is definitely costing LR market share amongst the caravan fraternity - particularly when coupled with the Disco's air suspension and confusion about weight distribution hitches (a piece of kit that may toyota owners are absolutely wedded to, rightly or wrongly).

Yes some people wont look at a Discovery 4 because of the WDH thing honestly if that is the reason they use for rejecting it as a tug then they are welcome to the tractor like LC200 series.

I have towed a van for around 30000klm with my D4 a lot of those with a van that is 3500kg and a ball weight of 300ish kg... The whole rig is absolutely stable and a joy to drive.

Land Rover I believe can sell every car they import so the market share thing doesn't really matter. People are welcome to their second rate choice in tow vehicle, There is NO better 3500 rated 4WD on the planet.

[swordfish805]

What functions cant you make work?

The Trailer stability assist will work even if the trailer electrics are not connected, so there is no requirement to have it switchable in anyway. The Tow Assist only apply's to D4's with multiple cameras so if you only have a single camera it wont be on your D4 again connection to the trailer electrics is irrelevant because this feature is used to help you hitch up.

If you are having issues making LED tail lights work well there are simple fixes for that as well. This LED light issue isn't limited to the D4 either.

I don't believe you are correct - at leat my LR dealer has told me the opposite - please go back to my post 5 before this one.

[mowog]

There are a few points there which bit is wrong?

[swordfish805]

There are a few points there which bit is wrong?

The idea that the trailer stability assist works without the car knowing the trailer is connected. Dealer explained to me that the functions that underly TSA, namely electronic stability control, work all the time (obviously). When the car senses that a trailer is connected it switches to a different program designed to better deal with a swaying trailer.

Several other features are also switched on by the car when it senses the trailer is present:
- trailer indication on the dash
- reversing warning alarm muted
- air suspension will not change height while travelling at speed

Ergo, in my case, these functions and the enhanced form of ESC known as trailer stability assist, appear not to be working.

[mowog]

The D4 has a number of ways to detect the trailer. The electrical connections are just one. The important feature trailer stability control will work regardless of trailer electrical connections.

I have a box with a switch that allows the D4 to work with LED trailer lights. This box is a common fix for many euro cars and it can either be fitted to the trailer or the car. I my case I fitted it to the car because I was buying a new van at the time. I also have an LED light set fitted to the spare wheel on my Kaymar bar.

The issues you are having are not new there are answers on the forum.

[camel_landy]

I don't believe you are correct - at leat my LR dealer has told me the opposite...
...you're assuming that he hasn't made a mistake... :angel:

M

[Pedro_The_Swift]

my moneys on mowog:angel:

[swordfish805]

...you're assuming that he hasn't made a mistake... :angel:

M

True - but he did tell me it is a question he gets asked fairly regularly and that the answer came from LR Aust.

[mowog]

In the linked Land Rover Video it states the stability assist will work without the trailer electrics connected. I suggest your Land Rover Contact needs retraining.

Land Rover's "Trailer Stability Assist" for Range Rover, Range Rover Sport and Discovery 4/ LR4 - YouTube

The Tow assist has 2 sides to it hitch assist no trailer electrics needed because you are not hooked up. The reverse assist well yes the electrics need to be connected. But this is only on D4's with multiple cameras. It wont operate on a single reversing camera.

[rufusking]

Did you pick up in the video that it only operates above 50mph (~80kph)!

[mowog]

Did you pick up in the video that it only operates above 50mph (~80kph)!

If you van has sway issues below this speed then there is something seriously wrong with it.

[slug_burner]

Land Rover's new Surround Camera and Tow Assist technology for 2010. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VEc7_HCNugY)

...

[swordfish805]

In the linked Land Rover Video it states the stability assist will work without the trailer electrics connected. I suggest your Land Rover Contact needs retraining.


I can't work out whether I'm being trolled here or not....

I'll have one last stab at this. I have never suggested that the function only works when the trailer is connected. Here is the post where I set out what I was told:


That half meshes with what the dealership told me - Trailer Stability operates all the time (basically it is just the ESC function) but when it detects a trailer is attached it moves up a notch - it applies the brakes in a different fashion.

Also, they explained to me, that some other related functions are dependent on the trailer being detected - for example, the Disco won't raise or lower the suspension if travelling at speed with a trailer connected.

[rufusking]

If you van has sway issues below this speed then there is something seriously wrong with it.

Easily happen when going around a downhill sweeper with a couple of B-doubles come the other way pushing a lot of wind.

[mowog]

I can't work out whether I'm being trolled here or not....

I'll have one last stab at this. I have never suggested that the function only works when the trailer is connected. Here is the post where I set out what I was told:

You are not being trolled.

I have never seen any suggestion of different modes of operation of the stability assist system.

I don't recall you saying what isn't working on your D4...?

[mowog]

Easily happen when going around a downhill sweeper with a couple of B-doubles come the other way pushing a lot of wind.

I have tow my van up and down the Blue Mountains in wet and very cold conditions with trucks coming the other way. I did have the stability systems operate a number of times. Its easy to pick rumbling brakes and flashing lights. All under 80klm/h. The world didn't end for me...

[swordfish805]

You are not being trolled.

I have never seen any suggestion of different modes of operation of the stability assist system.

I don't recall you saying what isn't working on your D4...?

Firstly, the trailer indicator when the blinkers are used isn't showing on the dash.

Secondly, the reversing sensors are disengaged when the van is attached.

With those two items not working as they should - I wonder if anything else is working correctly - ie is the car in 'standard' or 'enhanced' trailer stability, will the suspension be allowed to change height while travelling at speed? etc

[slug_burner]

Firstly, the trailer indicator when the blinkers are used isn't showing on the dash.

Secondly, the reversing sensors are disengaged when the van is attached.

With those two items not working as they should - I wonder if anything else is working correctly - ie is the car in 'standard' or 'enhanced' trailer stability, will the suspension be allowed to change height while travelling at speed? etc

Hasn't anyone got a user handbook that would cover these issues?

[mowog]

Firstly, the trailer indicator when the blinkers are used isn't showing on the dash.

Secondly, the reversing sensors are disengaged when the van is attached.

With those two items not working as they should - I wonder if anything else is working correctly - ie is the car in 'standard' or 'enhanced' trailer stability, will the suspension be allowed to change height while travelling at speed? etc

None of that is hard to fix. And not isolated to Land Rover.

These very issues have been discussed many times on the forum. I am not sure if the answers are in the FAQ area but a little homework here and your problems will be solved.

Suspension height change... I doubt you will tow at 160k so that part is a non issue. Coming from access or off road heigth is well below normal towing speeds so thats a non issue as well.