Thor Fuel pump renew. Fuel filter Renew. Fuel level sender clean

[wayneg]

Today I fitted a generic Fuel pump to my Thor car. As far as I know this has not been documented before.
Taking out the tank unit is similar to the gems. I cut the hole in the floor to access it.
Once out and dismantled I realised that the elusive or non existent fuel filter is in fact integral to the tank unit and no doubt one of the reasons its stupidly expensive.
The high pressure generic pump I purchased for A$36, it was very close to being able to do a strait swap however the body diameter was a couple of mil to large. The pump actually fits inside the fuel filter and the new one would not go. The plug fitting was spot on exact.
I dumped the old fuel filter and put an in-line unit into the housing . The flow goes through an initial mesh, through the pump filter into the pump, out of the pump to the in-line filter then out of the tank to the engine.
Whilst on the bench I had a look at the sender as these seem common to give a false reading when low on fuel.. The electric resistance track is open in the fuel and was visibly dirty. A quick clean with crc contact cleaner made it shiny again.
Conclusion. The Thor does have a fuel filter. The pump can be changed with a generic one with a new fuel filter. Hardest part is getting the big tank sealing ring to screw back on. A high pressure pump is required, not a Commodore / Falcon type

[wayneg]

More pics of new pump and filter Plus part number on old pump and a shot of the non existent Thor fuel filter

[wayneg]

More pics of Sender unit electrical track

[bee utey]

Great write up!

One thing I have to query, did you use special in-tank fuel hose? A number of D1 fuel pumps I did with standard EFI hose swelled and burst the hose within a couple of months. I bought some of the correct hose off Burson's after that. Mackay make it, part number FHIT8x1 for 1 metre.

[wayneg]

I just used standard neoprene fuel hose. I have just had a read and you are right on the money here. I will need to change it once I have found a cheap source

[ytt105]

Excellent info!! Where did you get the new pump and what is its number?

Assuming its all working OK?

[bee utey]

Ebay has a short length of EFI rated in tank hose:

5/16" SUBMERSIBLE IN-TANK FUEL LINE HOSE SAE30R10 SPECS | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-16-SUBMERSIBLE-IN-TANK-FUEL-LINE-HOSE-SAE30R10-SPECS-/160300020894?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2552a0349e)

No cheap but not as dear as an OEM pump assembly...

[wayneg]

Excellent info!! Where did you get the new pump and what is its number?

Assuming its all working OK?

The pump works fine. I got mine from Aliexpress but they are for sale on ebay. Just look for a high pressure pump. It was nice to have the correct electrical plug on the one I fitted. The Part number on the old one showed 1999 BMW 3 series. If you could get a similar diameter pump it would be a quick swap and you could keep the old fuel filter. I am happy I have a new fuel filter now after 235000k`s
The original pump is 38mm diameter, this one on e-bay looks identical but no idea if its capable of the pressure and flow required. 38mm Universal Fuel Pump Ford Holden Mitsubishi Mazda Suzuki Honda | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/38mm-Universal-Fuel-Pump-Ford-Holden-Mitsubishi-Mazda-Suzuki-Honda-/251158901082?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a7a3cb15a)
I will need to take it out to change the hose at some stage, looks like 4 months is the limit on non submersible fuel line. Should be an easy job. I have found an online seller doing 500mm for AS23 so will order from them. Its 5/16 bore, the spec for the correct submersible hose is SAE30R10

[wayneg]

I took the sender / pump out again to change the hoses to a submersible type.
I realised why I was having problems getting the locking ring back on the first time and had infact pushed the seal into the tank.
On initial removal of the unit a rubber seal remained on the unit. On refitting this seal needs to be located into the top of the tank before the last inch of the unit goes in. This is a bit fiddly as it needs to be on the unit as it goes in then eased around the tank aperture before the final inch of the unit squeezes into the seal. Once in correctly the sealing ring screws on easily. On my first attempt which I messed around for an hour I must have pushed the seal into the tank so be careful. A quick test to ensure its right when finished is you should get an immediate vacuum in the tank with the engine running. Stop the car and remove the filler cap and hope for a hiss. No vacuum and you have not got the seal in properly
Changing the hoses took 20 mins

[bee utey]

Dishwashing detergent makes great lube for slipping the pump housing into the seal, seem to dissipate quite quickly.

[wayneg]

Dishwashing detergent makes great lube for slipping the pump housing into the seal, seem to dissipate quite quickly.

Yep thats what I used

[wayneg]

A follow up to this job, more advise for anyone wanting to do it.
As Bee utey advised get the correct submersible fuel hose before you start. 2 feet/ 500mm is enough. I purchased the hose from aliexpress, $12 for 2ft shipped, Viton 5/16.
Make sure you have 4 GOOD quality stainless worm drive clamps, they need to be tightened as much as you can get them to so cheap alloy ones will not do.
When sourcing a fuel filter try and get one with barbed ends or flared ends to keep the hose from pulling off under pressure.
After cleaning the fuel sender conductor track the fuel gauge is behaving in a much better manner, I have regained confidence in the reading when low on fuel.

The new pump is performing fine.

[wayneg]

Another addition...
As I wanted to keep a spare pump in the car I ordered another type from e-bay.
It arrived today and miraculously it is a 100% match for the original so could be fitted with the existing fuel filter. You would still need the special R10 hose and 4 clamps. At $26 delivered its a worthwhile spare to have

NEW 255LPH HP Fuel Pump HIGH PRESSURE IN-TANK For HONDA FORD TOYOTA | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/320961213312'ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)

[glenhendry]

Is this the tubing you got Wayne? It doesnt explicitly say submersible or SAE30R10?

1 foot 5/16" ID viton hose, biodiesel tubing, vitonl fuel line, high temperature reistance, Ozone and aging protective-in Car Accessories from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-foot-5-16-ID-viton-hose-biodiesel-tubing-vitonl-fuel-line-high-temperature-reistance-Ozone/572360889.html)

[wayneg]

Good job you asked.
You need to get the R10 hose as Bee utey stated from the start nothing else will do. The Viton hose is ok for submersion but it is not really thick enough. I spoke with the seller who said it was fine however as it needs to be clamped very tight because of the pressure the clamps cut into the hose as its so soft. I ended up getting the correct R10 hose from Pirtek, A$27 for 500mm, they had to order it in but its in their listings.
If you get the correct size pump you will only need about 200mm and 2 clamps as you dont need to replace the filter or the filter exit pipe. This is where I had the problems with the length of hose needed.
If I did it again I would keep the existing filter and just replace the pump, it keeps things tidy and simple. Being able to get the correct size pump is a godsend.

[glenhendry]

Great thread - many of us are going to need fuel pumps replaced at these cars ages and they are expensive. I grabbed one of the pumps described below, and have been struggling to get the hose.

Repco didnt have it but could get it but at $28 per foot. Pirtek didnt have it but could get it for similar price, Burson's didnt have it and was expensive also. I just bought 10 feet of it from USA and so I can help Aurlo members get sorted and just cover my costs, should be about $10 per 500mm. PM or text me.

[wayneg]

Its crazy that this R10 hose is so expensive and hard to come by. If anyone comes up with a cheap reliable long term source please let us know. Thanks Glen for thinking of others in the short term.
I can report that since refitting the new pump with the correct hose every start has been first go. With the other types of hose I used the pressure bled from the system so starting took a couple of cranking attempts after leaving the car for a while, not good for the heart when far from home.

[glenhendry]

I just bought 10 feet of it from USA and so I can help Aurlo members get sorted and just cover my costs, should be about $10 per 500mm. PM or text me.

Sorry gang, I am afraid that my 10 foot shipment arrived in a terrifyingly small packet, and the very misleading ebay ad has now been changed to say 2'. I have none to spare.

[Keithy P38]

Sorry to dig up an archive!

Just wondering if it is necessary to replace the fuel hose in-tank if you get a pump that fits ok, or if the original hose will do the job?

Cheers
Keithy

[wayneg]

Keith, If you get the correct pump I put a link to it will fit perfectly inside the fuel filter. This means the existing connection hose to the tank outlet from the filter outlet can remain in place as you will keep the filter. Once the pump has been replaced you need to connect it to the inlet of the fuel filter. The original hose is the rock hard plastic type which can only be removed by cutting it off so you will need a piece of R10 hose and 2 stainless clips. 12 inch lengths of R10 seem to be the normal sold and that would be enough for the job. Again I will emphasise bee-utey`s advise ONLY USE R10 hose.
Once you get the sender unit out it will all be very obvious.
Enjoy you big day

Here is a link to the same seller with his current listing, It looks the same pump but cant guarantee 100%. Still cheap as chips though and worth keeping one ready for the day. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-255LPH-HP-Fuel-Pump-HIGH-PRESSURE-IN-TANK-For-HONDA-FORD-TOYOTA-/330897947628?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0b0dfbec

[Keithy P38]

Thanks mate. Will go into my local hose doctor tomorrow and grab some!

Cheers

[wayneg]

Just an add to this thread. The original fuel pump is a Bosch 38mm body. If you are looking for a generic pump look for a 38mm one and it should fit exactly into the fuel filter. You will then only need to replace one hose with R10

[garybrook]

....... it will all be very obvious.
Enjoy you big day

Here is a link to the same seller with his current listing, It looks the same pump but cant guarantee 100%. Still cheap as chips though and worth keeping one ready for the day. New 255LPH HP Fuel Pump High Pressure in Tank for Honda Ford Toyota | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-255LPH-HP-Fuel-Pump-HIGH-PRESSURE-IN-TANK-For-HONDA-FORD-TOYOTA-/330897947628?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0b0dfbec)[/QUOTE]


Above, from wayneg, and I have to learn how to use this system, but ....

The Ebay link exists, and the product does, but that seller refuses to ship their pump from HK to Australia. Obviously, someone is unhappy. Perhaps they or others are selling it in Australia already, at a much higher price. Mmm... Who, where and at what price? Any ideas?

[wayneg]

....... it will all be very obvious.
Enjoy you big day

Here is a link to the same seller with his current listing, It looks the same pump but cant guarantee 100%. Still cheap as chips though and worth keeping one ready for the day. New 255LPH HP Fuel Pump High Pressure in Tank for Honda Ford Toyota | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-255LPH-HP-Fuel-Pump-HIGH-PRESSURE-IN-TANK-For-HONDA-FORD-TOYOTA-/330897947628?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0b0dfbec)


Above, from wayneg, and I have to learn how to use this system, but ....

The Ebay link exists, and the product does, but that seller refuses to ship their pump from HK to Australia. Obviously, someone is unhappy. Perhaps they or others are selling it in Australia already, at a much higher price. Mmm... Who, where and at what price? Any ideas?[/QUOTE]

See my latest link to a pump in this recent thread.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/211924-p38-thor-fuel-gauge-sender-unit-repair.html

[glenhendry]

This is a great thread. I hereby attached THOR fuel pump photos. Mine had completely fused, and the replacement pump wayneg suggested slid into the filter with no issues. See two pics of burnt fuel pump. As previously suggested by someone, it probably burned out due to cranking while run out of fuel. Or, because it was 14 years old. :)

1) Pay attention to waynge's note about putting the pump assembly rubber seal into the tank hole first, it is important, and not obvious, and a little tricky but totally doable within a minute or two.

2) When you rip off the OEM hard plastic hose from pump to filter, it is not reusable in my opinion. While I used hot water to soften it and slowly work it off, it was a mess and I wouldn't trust the seal if reused. I think it is heat-shrunk on there initially - probably to avoid the use of in tank worm-drive hose clamps.

3) Autobarn, bursons and SCA don't have fully stainless clamps, but Repco do.

4) The clamp on the pump has to be very carefully positioned, otherwise it widens the pump width and wont go down into the snug slot in the filter. Get the smallest clamp you can that will fit. I got Size 02, and Id suggest that size 01 will work better. See two attached pics.

5) The fuel pump assembly for the 1997 THOR looks surprisingly different (esp the way the top section is joined to the bottom section) to the assembly on the 2000 THOR. However the pump and filter and sender gauge are all compatible.

6) My fuel tank inside was a whitish colour, and I was concerned that there was a thick layer of mud and silt from the glasshouse mountains in it, but upon stirring the bottom of the tank, it was perfectly clear. Amazingly so for a 15 car with 285kkm.

Fuel pressure tester guages - I bought a expensive kit from Burson's with a multitude of fittings, for trucks cars etc. It wont fit!!! We have a normal schrader valve on the fuel rail, the tester had a schrader valve but the larger size and no matter what adaptor I tried in the kit, it wasn't right. You need a schrader to schrader reducing adapter called, wait for it, a 'ford adapter'.

Unfortunately - the new pump did not solve my problems. I have had a long term fuel trim of -9% on both banks for months. I have tried 54 things. I am confident that I am running at stochiometric, as the LTFTs stay there, and the STFT and O2 sensors are happy, but for some reason my THOR ecu has to pull out 10% of fuel from the MAP to get there. TBC.

[glenhendry]

Fuel tank/pump part numbers: for posterity:

ESR1073 - PUMP-FUEL-ASSEMBLY TANK (to TA323950)
ESR3931 - PUMP-FUEL-ASSEMBLY TANK (from TA323951 to VA376579)
STC4345 - PUMP-FUEL-ASSEMBLY TANK (from WA376580 to XA410481)
WFX101090 - PUMP-FUEL-ASSEMBLY TANK (from XA410482 to XA430701)
WFX101390 - PUMP-FUEL-ASSEMBLY TANK (to YA430702)

NTC5859 - SEAL-FUEL PUMP UNIT TANK (to WA410481)
ESR3806 - SEAL-FUEL PUMP UNIT TANK (from XA410482)

ESR2970 - Fuel Tank (to WA410481)
ESR4039 - Fuel Tank (from WA376580 to XA410481)
WFE107020 - Fuel Tank (from XA410482)

[wayneg]

Excellent additions. Knowing that a Gems assy can be used for the sender unit and pump could be a great help to someone.
As I said you have to replace that one hose, hopefully you used R10 submersible or you will be doing it again in a few months.
On my final fit I did not use worm drive clamps, I used the rings with ears that you squash, they are better for this application according to Pirtek

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/259.jpg

[glenhendry]

Interesting, I wish I had know about those. They look like just the ticket. I did use R10 hose.

However, I do -not- get the whoosh of vacuum upon opening the fuel filler lid. And I am as confident as I can be that the fuel pump assembly seal and its metal locking ring are on and tight. Maybe my tank cap is u/s? I had my ear up against the fuel pump seal when it was running and no hissing was heard. I do have a whine that is audbile from evryone in the car though, and I was hoping the new fuel pump would fix that noise.

[glenhendry]

Sadly, my cheap aftermarket pump is the noisiest thing imaginable. My family refuses to get in the RR now, and it is driving me crazy. A continuous and wavering whining sound sometimes close to a screech. It is being removed pronto.

I am going to get a genuine bosch pump and install it into the fuel pump assembly.

[Keithy P38]

Sadly, my cheap aftermarket pump is the noisiest thing imaginable. My family refuses to get in the RR now, and it is driving me crazy. A continuous and wavering whining sound sometimes close to a screech. It is being removed pronto.

I am going to get a genuine bosch pump and install it into the fuel pump assembly.



Bugger...


You'll be a seasoned pro after this!


Keithy

[DT-P38]

... continuous and wavering whining sound sometimes close to a screech. It is being removed pronto...

Aaaah... if only all things in life were as simple as P38's!

LOL! :D:p:D:p