300tdi Shuddering/vibrating issue

[ausrrc]

Hi,

My fathers 1996 discovery 1, 2 inch lift with polybushes all round was perfect to drive, up until 100km/hr. at 100km/hr the car would shudder, through the steering wheel it could be felt, when I hit approximately 120 km/hr :angel: this shuddering then stops.

However, after yestuday (7/10/2012) being involved in an accident on the pacific highway, this shuddering is apparent at lower speeds, but not as serious.

The accident I had was I rear ended a Smart car ForFour, which then got pushed into a Honda Jazz. Luckily no one was hurt. and this was a slow speed incident, approximately 30km/hr in traffic. The smartcar was a write off and the honda jazz got a smashed rear window and bent rear door. I'm uninsured and the cost to I'll have to pay without a doubt is going to be impossible to pay as I'm only 17. :(

The discovery gained minor damages from what I can see, few dents on the bonnet, bullbar bent on the drivers side, indicator on right hand side broken. Spotlight was also broken, and grill had be pushed in along with the corner "finishers" underneath the headlights. Plus this new shuddering or, vibrating in the steering. Hopefully I'll be able to fix these issues myself, so I can save for the other exspenses :(

I was thinking perhaps, best case scenario: wheel balancing weights may have fallen off? panhard rod bushes may have split along with other bushes perhaps? Although, worst case scenario: axle may have bent, bent steering rods, or even kinked chassic rails from the bullbar

[komodo]

Firstly driving with no insurance is a big no no. I'm sure you don't need to be told that now. I wouldnt hold much hope for the jazz - broken rear window and a bend door sounds like a write off to me. You mush have hit them at every bit of 30kph to do that kind of damage.

Secondly poly bushes are crap. Rubber is always better - particularly on 4wds.
I drive a 4" lifted GU patrol on 285/75R16s (My wife drives a D3 HSE 2.7 and my parents both TVD8 RRSports and I might be swayed over to a 130 crewcab as a daily driver as my GU becomes more of a weekender hence my membership of AULRO). I wouldn't EVER use poly where a rubber (particularly OEM) is available. The only place I have poly is my sway bars as I run over size swaybars and you can't get rubber bushes that suit.

Whats causing the vibrations - hell that could be a list as long as an arm. Flogged bushes (wouldnt supprise me with polys), collapsed bearings, unseated spring, buckled wheel, bent axle, loose tierod, rotating pan hard, assuming you have an adjustable panhard with the 2" lift is could even be the locking nut loose. Thats just a start without looking into anything more serious.

Honestly if I were in your situation I think I'd be more concerned about seeking good legal (and perhaps financial) advice as I reckon you're likely in a bit of barney with what its going to cost to pay out the other vehicles.

Good luck.

[manic]

sorry to hear that. Sounds like the wobble in your steering is the least of you problems. Lever all the steering joints with a crow bar and check for play, inspect all the bushes and wiggle the wheels at opposing ends when jacked up for play in bearings. You'll probably find the culprit. Also could be worth a wheel alignment.

When I was 17 I drove a 1.6 litre hatchback and most of my friends were forced by their parents onto <1.6 litre little bangers for their first cars. I think this is the sensible way to go. It always irks me when I see a P plater in their first car, and that car is a huge jacked up 4x4 with bullbars and the rest.

As a P plater you are a much greater statistical liability, why drive a wrecking ball? This is nothing personal btw you may well be a very level headed young man who just had a bit of bad luck that was unavoidable even for the most experienced of drivers.

I'd say roughly 8 out of 10 of my friends in their first year of driving had an incident, whether that be a crash or an incredibly lucky escape! Since then very few have ever had an incident since... its naturaly that we all test/find the boundries/limits in our first year of driving, some are fortunate to learn by near misses and others crash.

I'm no old man, but perhaps far enough removed from 17 to think that there should be a limit on the first couple of years motoring both in vehicle weight and engine size at least in built up areas. For those country boys who have offroad/agricultural lifestyles there should be an exemption of some sort.

Sorry about that... couldnt stop myself. Good luck with it all!

[Tins]

One thing that's possibly your issue is the 2" lift. Lifting, by putting taller springs in ( I assume that this is your case ) causes a change in the castor angle, which can cause steering issues; but it can also cause the driveshafts ( tailshafts, i.e. the shafts from the transfer case to the diffs ) to operate outside their designed angles. This means the universal joints become stressed, which may cause the vibrations you mention ( this is much more likely to happen on the front shaft, as it is shorter, and therefore the angles are more acute). Your rear ender could have disturbed the position of the front axle in the Disco, and thus changed the angle even more, which may explain the changes you describe. Harmonics may be the issue, but that's delving a bit too deep for this forum.
Good luck with sorting the accident issues. As you say, no-one was hurt, and that is truly all that matters.
Insurance is a personal choice; to say that not having it is a "big no no" is merely a moral judgement. Lots of corporations, and individuals, choose to self insure. It's your choice. That said, I bet you wish someone else was paying for the other cars!

Back to the Disco. Sounds like it needs to go to an alignment specialist.

One of the old proverbs deserves a mention: " This, too, shall pass". Yeah, I know, you're seventeen. One day it will make sense. If you could draw a timeline back through all the mistakes, all the written off cars, and all the fines/warrants I've incurred over the years you'd be amazed, and yet I'm still here, and owe nothing to anyone. Well, the Bank might dispute that, but that's what banks are for.

[chunk]

Hi ausrcc I have just been through the same problem myself, disco was great to drive up to 80k's then the vibrations started and ended up with what I call death wobbles. Had it checked, mechanic said he couldn't find anything and suggested I take to Pedders for there $14 safety check which I did. Turned out to be all the bushes,ball joints were worn, they even took me under the disco and showed me how much they were worn. They even give you a written quote of what's wrong and how much to fix.

[manic]

...
Insurance is a personal choice; to say that not having it is a "big no no" is merely a moral judgement. Lots of corporations, and individuals, choose to self insure. It's your choice. That said, I bet you wish someone else was paying for the other cars!
...


self insure might seem like a good idea to an individual if your risking the value of your car. But if you are in an accident and ruled to be at fault it is quite possible you could end up with $100,000+ bill to settle if you hit a good round of property and cause injury.

You may not be in debt to any one now but that could change at any moment if you dont have 3rd party to bail you out should you plow a bently and leave the owner crippled.

It is a personal choice.

[ausrrc]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I will have a check at all the bushes etc, It might all be due to castor angles as there is no correction on this vehicle. I'll have a thorough look at the axle and chassis, to see if i can spot any issues there, if I can not see much. it might be time for it to see a mechanic for the first time in 10 years.

It was a regrettable decision to drive that day, and from what the first reply stated, I truly hope the jazz isn't written off too. I didn't particularly choose to not insure, It was just to do with our financial situation.

From what I've heard, insurance companies couldn't care less, soo, Looks as if im in for a hefty bill. and a great start to independence with a 20k+ debt. Looks as if I'd have to start looking for a job harder than ever, and work my ass off after school to pay off the debts.

from 9k-11k for a 2005 Smart forfour and 10k-15k for a 2007 jazz. + towing fees.

On the bright side, atleast no one was hurt and I don't have that extra guilt on my shoulder.

Thank you all.

[yannpiat]

Actually experience a bit of a shudder in my 300tdi. First thing I'll be doing is get another wheel balance to make sure. Then when I get some time check and replace bushes if I still have the problem. Take it to my mechanic. But if you discover the prOblem. Would love to hear what it is. Good luck with the insurance problem too mate

[ausrrc]

Yeah was thinking of checking the wheel balancing too, cheap and easy and one to tick off the list. Will post up if i ever find out what the problem is.

Cheers

[loanrangie]

**** me , anyone that says to 17 or 18 yo new driver that insurance is a personal choice needs their bloody head examined.
Any young person getting in or on any vehicle should have 3rd party f and f at the very least, and if their parents let them drive without it then they are as responsible (or not ) as the driver.

[spudboy]

Young kids do stupid things. That's just life.

[loanrangie]

Young kids do stupid things. That's just life.

Exactly, and thats what insurance is for. And its gonna cost him way more than just the value of the vehicles by the time money grabbers add their markups and other misc costs.

[Tank]

Exactly, and thats what insurance is for. And its gonna cost him way more than just the value of the vehicles by the time money grabbers add their markups and other misc costs.
I reckon he would have been hard pressed to get insurance, can you imagine the premium for a full comprehensive insurance policy for a 17 Y.O..
BTW I'd be checking the tail shaft uni joints for your Vibration, good luck, Regards Frank.

[ausrrc]

I reckon he would have been hard pressed to get insurance, can you imagine the premium for a full comprehensive insurance policy for a 17 Y.O..
BTW I'd be checking the tail shaft uni joints for your Vibration, good luck, Regards Frank.

Cheers for that.
Insurance is always expensive for a 17 Y.O.
We learn from mistakes and we all make regrettable decisions. However, most probably don't cost in excess of 15 thousand.
I'll have a look at the play in the joints, have quite a few tailshafts/propshafts spare.

Cheers, Aidan

[pk.hoarder]

Amongst all the rest of it... might be worth looking at the rear donut (the thing D1s have instead of a rear uni joint) as that can cause shuddering - especially since you say it was there a little bit before the prang. Impact may have stressed things and made it worse after that. If not fixed, they can get so bad they chew out the rear diff yoke, making a little problem bigger...
Good luck
Paul.

[Bushie]

...............................................How ever, most probably don't cost in excess of 15 thousand.
Cheers, Aidan

You'd probably be there after 4 years though :o.

At least get some 3rd party.

As for the shudder start with the simple things and head up from there. Maybe wheel balance as it vanishes at 120kph - I assume it was your father who discovered that :D:D.

Martyn