Daily driving Pros & Cons for the 2010+ Digital Gauges

[ovalnews]

Beyond the off-road features of the digital gauges introduced for the 2010MY, what are the other advantages and disadvantages they bring to the daily Range Rover driver?

There is an initial gee-wiz effect but beyond that, what value do they add? We'll never get integration with the Nav or Audio systems. The press photos that were shown usually show something displayed in the center of the screen - a graphic of the Range Rover or a system menu. But in reality, it's usually a blank, black area. And while I'm all for minimalism, they tout a high-res versatile screen, but for 90% of the time, it's an analog of an analog display.

Some images for reference:

The popular shot showing the Terrain Response display, however that display, since it's in regular mode, only shows for a few seconds after you switch it from one mode to another, not a real world, daily driving display for most people:
http://www.roverhaul.com/galleries/albums/2010rangerover-autobiography/Range_Rover_Autobiography_8.sized.jpg


Here's an official shot showing audio information, maybe just a visual mock-up since there are other odd cues.
http://www.roverhaul.com/galleries/albums/2010rangerover-autobiography/Range_Rover_Autobiography_7.sized.jpg



Not trying to cause controversy, just asking for opinions. We don't yet know if the L405 will take more advantage of the tech, just hoping it becomes less of a gimmick.

Thanks!

[camel_landy]

Hi & welcome... Now you're here, I hope you're going to stick around for a while & get to know us. :cool:

As a user of the system myself, I personally really like the feature of the off-road info. Thing is, when I'm using the RaRo, I'm usually off-road so the way the speedo moves off to the side to show the 4x4 info is really useful.

The other feature that stands out for me is the ‘torch’ effect at the end of the dials to help focus your eyes on what the dial is displaying. I find this helps at night time, as it makes the dashboard generally easier on the eyes. These things are perfect for Range Rover as they fit under the heading of ‘Attention to detail’.

Thing is, as boring & mundane as it maybe, I suspect that the main advantages are when you delve under the skin. This is my take on it:

Upgradeability: Having the digital display means that should a new feature be released, an existing car could have this new feature simply by taking a software update. It also means that there can be design 'tweaks' late in the development process.

Manufacturing: The L322 has multiple derivatives, all of which have different requirements for dials... Fuel gauge - Petrol/Diesel. Supercharged logo... But there is also the requirement to have all of these derivatives in both MPH & KPH. On a digital display, all of these derivatives can be dealt with through different software profiles, therefore simplifying logistics and keeping manufacturing costs down.

(For other manufacturers, there might even be a requirement to have a LHD & RHD derivative!)

I’d also hazard a guess that the manufacturing of the instrument cluster itself is going to be easier on an all digital cluster...

M

[harlie]

....

Upgradeability:

.....

Manufacturing:

....

I’d also hazard a guess that the manufacturing of the instrument cluster itself is going to be easier on an all digital cluster...

M

Exactly. Once the GUI (pretty pictures) have been coded – which is only done (and payed for) once - the instrument cluster is just a screen. Adding/improving features becomes a cheap seamless patch applied at the next service. Even moving to a new model, the base source code for the display will be mostly reused with minor functionality and graphical tweaks and additions. I’m tipping we will see more vehicles with this type of instrument display – starting with the little Volvo V40 which also uses a screen.

Its like consumer Printers, have you wondered why they are absurdly cheap? The printer has next to no functionality in it, the software (drivers) do everything, the manufacturer has the expense of coding the drivers once (which will be an upgrade to an existing model – mostly already done) and then stamp out thousands of dumb plastic boxes with a print head in them which cost a couple of $. The toner or ink cartage in them makes up for near 80% of the printer cost.

Only issue I have with them is long term reliability of the screen, theoreticaly it should be easy to replace a screen, and no doubt there will be services to do it.

[manic]

I'd bet screen hacks will come so you can skin/personalise your dials!

A thought - the dials are on an LCD screen right? If so they would be backlit, is the backlight integrated or replacable? I've had LCD screens loose the backlight after 5 years, but then in a new range rover they are probably LED so will last for looooooong time.

I want one... maybe I can stick an lcd over my defender instrument panel, hook it up to a mini carputer with sensor readers and design an awesome interface. I fear lifes too short!

[ovalnews]

Thanks, the off-road features are of course where the system currently shines, no debate there.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1273.jpg

And torchlight effect, also shown above is neat but...

The manufacturing side of things makes perfect sense and is a plus for the manufacturer, not necessarily the end-user. I hadn't considered that.

The upgradability that was mentioned a few times again sounds great but the only upgrades since 2010 have been behind the scenes if at all.

The end-users, doing daily road driving still see no real advantage. And if someone at Land Rover is listening, the display doesn't need to keep warning me of low wiper fluid every 5 minutes. Once it's been dismissed at least wait until the car is power cycled.

They have something that they can really do great things with but they don't. I've used the similar display in the new Cadillac's as an example of where they could take it. And I'm not endorsing Cadillac's just saying that they really take advantage of the large blank canvas display, embracing it as a modern tech and not just a screen to show analog dials.

When I say "older" here, I'm referring to where others in the industry have gone - the older tech shown so far in the L405 is slightly disappointing. When you see what Audi has been doing for a while, it just dates the new Range Rover before it arrives. Studying the Owner's Manuals and Quick Start guides, it appears that they may not have added anything new yet, but we'll have to wait and see. I have to stop talking about the L405, this is an L322 thread ;)

Thanks again everybody!

[camel_landy]

There is also a school of thought which says that you don't want to have the display 'feature rich'... The driver needs to be looking at the road, not at the screen. :angel:

I for one, like the screen the way it is but give it time, I'm sure it will evolve.

M

[RangieBit]

G'day Ovalnews and welcome,

My take on all of this is from a slightly different perspective and I agree with camel_landy regarding streamlining the information.

Like a lot of things in the automotive world I suspect this has been purloined from the world of aviation. "Glass displays" have been the norm in this realm for many years now. Mind you they still carry a few "steam" instruments that are basic, and thus basically infallible.

The beauty of this system for pilots is that they can select what is important right now to be displayed and not get overwhelmed by a huge array of information that is mostly just "good to know but normal" stuff.

This sort of approach can be seen by the way the speedo moves out of the way when the vehicle is operating in an "off road" mode. You don't really care how fast or slow you're traveling, but you would like to know what's happening with the TR system as you negotiate your chosen obstacle. You haven't lost the information but it has changed focus. Now there will always be a variety of schools of thought on what is, or is not, important for any given situation but at least the engineers are thinking ahead. As these vehicles get more electronically complex with the various interacting systems a consistent platform for information display is very important.

Of course, as previously pointed out it makes for a much more flexible, and upgradeable, system.

Them's my thoughts anyway.

Cheers,
Iain

[ovalnews]

Great information and opinions here!

I don't disagree with a minimal system, I was only using the Cadillac as an example of what's possible. I actually really like the setup Porsche has been using of late with just one of the it's five dials being all digital.

I don't want bright flashing colors, bar graphs for tachometers or tech for tech's sake(haha, too late). My main point from the beginning, Nav & Audio. Specific to the L322, the main touchscreen is very much single task, with just one system controlling the display at a time. I loved the old modal dialogs for when the sat radio would lose signal and you were literally locked out of the system because of the overlay. More of an investment in UI wouldn't go unnoticed. I always say RR is usually a half a step behind.

Mirroring some of the information in a clean and simple way to the vast blank areas between gauges is really all I'm asking. Doesn't the Sport do this already?

[camel_landy]

Here are a couple more for you:

* HDC - Displaying the target speed and the HDC 'zone' information is really useful.
* Cruise Control - The little pointer on the speedo is a nice touch.

Representing these on a non-digital display would be difficult.

I agree with what you say and having things like the Nav information, would be a useful addition. I'm not too fussed about audio but I can see that the nav info would be good. Thing is, the screen is probably proprietary to Land Rover but the Nav systems are generally bought in. This would make for a bit of a development headache to get the different systems working together!

...but let's face it, the 10MY Range Rover was the first time Land Rover used the digital screen. With the new Range Rover just around the corner, it probably wasn't going to get a huge amount of development effort thrown at it.

M

[ovalnews]

Cruise indicators are like Torchlight, definitely a positive.

HDC goes more to the off-road side of things again.

I wrote about how there were two different systems back when I first used it. It was clear in the way the settings didn't really overlap, each was configured on it's own screen. Still sticking with my beta test concept, all of the pre-L405 owners are just testers for what's to come. They didn't push the envelope, just made sure it was reliable and worked. As you said, it probably didn't get a "huge amount of development effort ", that's the disappointment - tech for tech's sake.

I'm ready to see what's coming next.

[ovalnews]

Got this warning today, I didn't realize how bad the exposure was until I got in in the computer. There's a yellow dot where the spare tire is located and you can even see the red brake light from above on the real thing. It's neat, still a gimmick ;) but neat. I've gotten various low pressure warnings before, but I believe this was my first with the spare.

http://www.ovalnews.com/images/l322-sparetire.jpg


Do they put the warning icons where the clock is on purpose? Or could they not find another place to stick the warnings?

[camel_landy]

Without the digital display, you probably would have only had the amber '!' warning and you would have had to go digging into the information centre for details as to what was giving that warning... OK, it's right in the middle of the "Supercharged" logo but it is reminding you of exactly what's causing the problem.

For me, although it's annoying, it's supposed to be annoying... It's reminding you that there is a problem which needs attending to. :D

M

[ovalnews]

Actually, the Evoque shows which tire is out of spec on its center display. I assume the current model Sport & LR4 do too, but again just an assumption.

The warning over the Supercharged is fine, it's the one that replaced the clock - top left middle, that's annoying.

Nit-picking at this point but thanks for keeping this going.

[camel_landy]

Oh... That 'clock'. I thought you were using clock, as in dial, speedo, etc...

Yeah, dunno. You do sometimes wonder what goes through the mind of the designers sometimes. Mind you, when you get a chance to sit one down and ask them, there is quite often a simple answer. :D

TBH - Most of the cars I use don't have the tyre pressure monitor fitted, so I'm not 100% sure what's on the other cars either. :blush:

M

[Graeme]

And if someone at Land Rover is listening, the display doesn't need to keep warning me of low wiper fluid every 5 minutes. Once it's been dismissed at least wait until the car is power cycled.Can this be fixed on the D4 too?

[drivesafe]

Actually, from first hand experience, having “feature rich” is just begging for trouble.

Mechanically, my current 07 L322 is by far one of the most reliable vehicles I have ever owned ( or heard of ) but thats where the pros end.

The cons and the very area being discussed in this thread, is the electronics.

My RR has NEVER worked properly from the day I drove it out of the show room.

Worse still, as far as I’m concerned, the Land Rover warranty is not worth the paper it’s written on.

And all the problems, bar two mechanical problems, a side mirror positioning switch failure and an alternator failure, have been software oriented and they were never fixed under warranty.

I have continual intermittent transmission problems but the transmission itself is fine.

I have not had suspension or off road functionality for for around 18 months, and again, there is nothing wrong with the suspension.

I lost half my satnav features after the first service and they were never able to fix that.

The sound system has never worked properly and was never addressed under warranty.

And so on.

So adding more “whiz bang” features is just begging for more problems.

You have no idea what it feels like, while setting up an off road trip and when we came to do the recce, only to find that we had to use a $200 hand held nav unit ( thank heavens someone just happen to bring one with them ) because the brand new $169,000 “off road” vehicle’s nav didn’t work anymore, and still doesn’t.

It’s all good and well having all that whiz bang gear, but if they can’t or don’t want to fix it when it goes wrong, it just adds up to an unwanted expense down the road.

[camel_landy]

Actually, from first hand experience, having “feature rich” is just begging for trouble...

...It’s all good and well having all that whiz bang gear, but if they can’t or don’t want to fix it when it goes wrong, it just adds up to an unwanted expense down the road.
Depends on how those features are applied. Electronic stuff is generally more reliable as there's very little there to wear out. The problems come with duff sensors or damaged wiring.

In theory, a move to something like this (i.e. digital dash boards) should make things more reliable. There is less to go wrong as there are fewer moving parts & fewer wires. Any problems can be temporarily fixed with a re-boot and a permanent fix can be applied via a software update... Exactly the same way as your computer at home or in the office.

M

[camel_landy]

...And if someone at Land Rover is listening, the display doesn't need to keep warning me of low wiper fluid every 5 minutes. Once it's been dismissed at least wait until the car is power cycled.
Now you come to mention it, that's something that ticked me off last year with my RRS!!!

I can't remember the detail but as the fluid was low, it kept a message in the message centre which meant that the icon obscured something else which I wanted...

Hey ho.

M