Battery options

[komodo]

OK So the alternator died in my recently obtained '07 D3 TDV6 2.7 HSE.
We replaced the alternatore last week with a new OEM.

Then I went away for a night with my wife camping and we had a flat battery!
Now admittedly we had the doors open whilst we set up the tent and kitchen tarp - but that was only an hour and 20 minutes (we rolled into camp at 5:40pm and we were leaving camp just before 7PM to meet family for dinner @ 7:30). I wouldnt expect the battery to go flat with the doors open in such a short period of time and we got it jump started very easily which lead me to believe that it wasn't so much the doors being left open as much as the condition of my battery - LR labled probably the original and more than likely well and truely sulphated.
A battery test this morning showed we could get 530 (M)CA out of the battery and it was floating at 12.56V - pretty much confirming my sulfated plates suspicion.
Rather than mess around with charging algorithems, PWM chargers and INOX battery restorer I've decided to look at a new battery.
Now I've always run Optimas in my vehicles but the OEM battery is rated at 750CCA and is a DIN 95/100 size which means that its a shorter battery than most of the optimas. Has any one successfully run an Optima in the OEM crank battery location?
A D34 should fit but they are only rated at 45AH C25-120min 750CCA compared to the currently installed DIN95/100 with 90AH C20-150min 750CCA
Now I wouldnt have thought that a LR3 would need 90AH reserve capacity but I'm looking for advice from those of you with more experiance with the LR D3/4

I can get a DIN100 for $265 but like I say I've always run optimas (I've got a 7yr old optima D34 in my patrol that gets abused for starting, winching and deep cycling that still tests at over 700CCA) and never had an issue. But I dont want to go throwing in a new Optima D34 ($230) only to find it wont work in the D3 because of the reduced reserve capacity compared to the original.

[sniegy]

The battery needs to be a Lead/Calcium battery as per OEM specs.
Being a TDV6 I remember the battery being bigger than that @ around 900-950CCA.
Dealer price is approx. $290.00
Cheers

[komodo]

The OEM is about 950 MCA (ie 34degress C) 750CCA (0degrees C)
An optima exceeds the charge and discharge rates of a calcium battery so I'm not even nearly fussed about that.
I'm more concerned about the reserve capacity because of the amount of time the stupid computers in this thing take to do their thing (for seemingly no real reason at all)

[kenl]

Sounds to me like you've decided on the Optima.

So what was the question? :twisted:

[drivesafe]

Hi komodo and what Pete was trying to say is that the D3 and D4 charging regime is specifically set up for Calcium/Calcium batteries.

An Optima will work but your will get the best results if you fit another Ca/Ca cranking battery.

[komodo]

Thanks Drivesafe thats what I wanted to know.
Just for my own curiosity what algorithm does it use? is it applied voltage or PWM?
If its applied voltage what voltage is it and is it controlled by the ECU or the alternator or is it a "simple smart" which can be altered by adjusting the feed to the exciter?

Also being that these things are so hard on batteries I'm looking at a dual battery system. Are your systems DC-DC charging or are they essentially VSR isolators?
Can you jump start via your system should a cell die in the crank battery or would I need to install a solenoid to do so?

[roamer]

Thanks . Are your systems DC-DC charging ?

OH NO, DUCK FOR COVER

[drivesafe]

Hi komodo and my isolators are a version of VSR type but work in a completely different manor to all other isolators.

A combination of the high voltage, high current charging the D3 ( and D4 ) are capable of, an Optima D34 Yellow Top as your auxiliary battery and one of my isolators and you will have a set up that will actually allow you to continue to charge your cranking battery long after you have turned your motor off.

This is not snake oil gimmickry, my isolators just exploit the laws of physics in that a higher charge battery will discharge back into a lower charged battery, slowly raising the settled voltage of the lower charged ( cranking ) battery.

This has a number of benefits but the main advantage is a longer life span for both batteries.

I have a number of isolators but the one that will probably interest you the most is my USI-160, which is still not posted on my web site, but if you have a look at the link below you will get a fair bit of info about this isolator, including plenty of feedback from those already using it.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/verandah/118973-usi-160-160-240-amp-ultra-smart-dual-battery-isolator.html

[komodo]

Thanks mate I'll have a squiz later tonight.

In my GU I use a redarc DBi12-D with a ABR-Sidewinder 30A DC-DC. I use a VSR to trigger the charge on the DC-DC rather than ignition on charger on. I also then use the second VSR to seperate my third battery from my second.
This means that my accessories are wired to my third battery meaning that my 2nd battery should (provided I havent used all my luck) always be available as an emergency cranker (push button to close a 200amp solenoid during crank) whilst also adding capacity to my 3rd battery till the VSR cuts off the isolator. I also run my 160watts of solar into the 3rd battery from an MPPT charge controller which when connected cuts the feed to the DC-DC charger to avoid issues from the two chargers working at the same time if the isolator is engaged and with it being the suffixed -d version of the SBI it will trigger either way (two VSRs). I also ran a relay to reverse the indicator light because I find I notice more when a warning light comes on rather than when an indicator light goes out - but this is only opperational when the ignition is on.
Obviously a little more complicated than most people run - but I use the GU for remote touring just me and the wife so a little redundancy is always a nice feeling rather than being strandard because of a little flat battery.
I think you and I have spoken about my setup over at Patrol4x4.com

Obviously I dont need that kind of redundancy in the missus D3 - but a little redundancy and additional capacity never goes astray ;)

[drivesafe]

Hi again komodo, the D3 and D4 have a much more advanced charging system than any of the Toyotas, and virtually do away with the need to use a DC/DC device.

There are hundreds of D3 and now quite a few D4 owners charging house batteries direct from the cranking battery and are having no problems doing it this way.

The only time you may strike a problem is when you need to charge a house battery(s) and power a 3 way fridge while driving but there are other options now available.

So for charging any number of batteries in the vehicle itself, no problem just using the alternator voltage.

[BobD]

Drivesafe,

I've noticed with My D4 using an Optima D34 and the Traxide USI 160 system that the car usually tells me the voltage is low and please start the engine, after the fridge etc has been draining the battery for a while. No problems starting the car but I assume this is because the batteries remain connected together until the voltage drops just below the message threshold before being isolated. Would this be the case?

On our Cape York trip we had no problems running the Waeco 50l fridge and LED camping lights off the sytem for even 2 days without starting the engine.

Bob

[drivesafe]

Hi Bob and on a trip you will experience this because the cut-out level of my isolators is 12.0v but the low battery messages commence once the battery voltage gets down to 12.2v

As soon as you got home and started you usual city driving the messages should have stopped. Correct?

[BobD]

Yes. Just as I thought the cut off voltage is just below the message voltage. It will accasionally also trigger around the city with the fridge on all the time but never with no load on the dual battery.

FYI, I noticed that the D4 has no trouble supplying 65 Amps to the D34 battery when I use my ARB twin compressor attached to the D34 battery. The compressor draws 65 Amps and I measured 65 Amps going into the battery with the engine idling, as expected.

Bob

[komodo]

Toyotas
Don't swear at me! :p



I've noticed with My D4 using an Optima D34
Hi Bob - do I read that correctly that you're using an Optima D34 as a crank battery? or are you using the OEM DIN100 Calcium battery with the D34 as Aux?

[BobD]

No. I have the standard Calcium starting battery and the Traxide second battery kit (USI 160) with the Optima D34.

Sorry if the criptic message gave you false hope!!

Bob

[drivesafe]

It will accasionally also trigger around the city with the fridge on all the time.

Hi again Bob and if you get a chance, the next time you get the low battery message, when driving around town, if you notice the message before you start your motor, get a voltage reading from your auxiliary battery.

Your cranking battery will be fine as it’s protected by the isolator, but your auxiliary battery is not protected from over discharging.

With my system, because the current load is shared over both batteries, if should take a while to discharge the batteries down to where the isolator cuts out.

But once the isolator does cut out the auxiliary battery is then providing all the power for the fridge and as the auxiliary battery is pretty small in the first place, you may find your auxiliary battery will discharge to a very low state in a short period of time.

If this happens a lot, you may end up shortening the auxiliary battery’s life span.

Just a suggestion but if you are not using the fridge around town, it may pay you to turn it off between uses.

[BobD]

Yes, thanks Drivesafe.

The only time the fridge is in the car is when I am getting ready for a trip or on a trip, so no worries with the battery life. We only notice the message occasionally once we put the fridge in the car ready to leave in a few days, usually if the car has been sitting around for most of the day. I understand that if the starting battery is below 12.2V or at 12V then the Optima is at that level or lower. The Waeco cuts out at 10.5V at the fridge which is some protection from gross discharging of the aux battery, especially with the voltage loss that occurs from the battery to the fridge when the compressor is running. So far the fridge has never stopped running in the D4 so at least we haven't reached a voltage which is that low!

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit komodo!

Bob

[komodo]

Go for youre life!
Its interesting information.

[BobD]

Thanks komodo.

It's interesting that despite the relatively low AH's of the Optima battery the combination that the Traxide kit gives never runs out of power in normal use. We were running three 24W LED light bars for two or three hours plus the Waeco fridge 24/7 and there was never any lack of power for the auxilliary stuff or starting the engine, even after two nights with the car sitting unused all day.

Bob