Swag alternative

[Ranga]

We currently use 2 double swags for SWMBO, the 3 and 5 yo kids and myself (dynamic combination - whoever lays down where!) and sleeping bags.

When we're all camping, we use them in the JetTent, and they're ok, but when on my own I don't want to bother with the tent.

However, they take up heaps of room, and need 2 people to roll them up effectively to allow them to fit in the camping canopy. On top of this, they're not waterproof (well, I wouldn't use them in the rain without a cover), and you can't really get dressed or eat in them.

Ultimately, I think swags are overrated. :eek: They served there purpose for years when there was no real alternative, but I suspect they've now been superseded by a decent mattress, sleeping bag an small tent.

So, I'm looking at swapping them for something we can lay out in the JetTent as a family, or I can use on my own without needing to get out the JetTent.

I'm thinking of going back to self-inflatable mattresses (the proper hiking style - not the fat, foam mattress imposters currently kicking around, that still take up heaps of room). This would greatly reduce the volume they take up in the canopy. Maybe I'll also invest in of them gimmicky looking instant pop-up tents that I can use when on my own.

So, unless anyone can think of a better option, I'm open to recommendations for sleeping mats and small tents.

Anyone?

[weeds]

Bad timing......sounds like I could have brought a double swag off you

[Ivan]

You need a Bivi Bag. It's a waterproof cover that your sleeping mat and bag fit inside. See this link (http://www.trekkinn.com/outdoor-mountain/mammut-bivi-bag-1-person/12036/p?utm_source=google_products&utm_medium=merchant&id_producte=93305). My wife made mine!!

HTH

Ivan

[MacMan]

I've started using an ex-army bivvi from Aussie Disposals. I think it's unissued dutch military. With an Exped synmat and a decent sleeping bag it's light, warm and dry.

[Ranga]

Exped synmat
I'm still looking around at mat options. A double would be nice for me and SWMBO, but a single would be better to fit in a shelter. Ideally, 2 singles that can join together somehow would be the go.

[MacMan]

Hi Ranga.

The Synmats are EXCELLENT gear. I bought one to try and immediately bought another for the Girlie since she has a bad back. Previous lightweight motorcycle touring trips were difficult for her until she was sleeping on one of those.

As far as I know Exped only make single Synmats and Downmats, and they're not wide things at the best of times. I've never seen double bivvys but I think if you're looking for "together time" another tent is probably the best bet.

THIS (http://www.aussiedisposals.com.au/dutch-bivvy-tent-camo) is what I have. I bought it for an event where early starts are a must and last year I either wasted time evening and morning with the tent setup and packing, or slept completely uncovered in my sleeping bag. Most of the crew on the event used swags, but since I had to fly with most of my kit on top of 20kg of camera gear I really didn't want the additional bulk. Quality is excellent and at 6'6" it was certainly long enough. They specify it at 200cm long, but it's bigger than that, has mozzie mesh and a pole to keep the top off your face. I'm a beanpole so didn't find it too cramped. If you're a lumberjack type or otherwise "width advantaged" it might get a little too cozy.

[hottuna]

As long as you have room to carry them in the car, the Oztrail 4wd leisure mats are popular here in store. They come in single, king single, double and queen, at 10cm thick they are comfy, and insulate you from the cold earth.
Double (http://oztrail.com.au/WebPage.gtl?product=EML-LMD-A?currentgroup=ZZZ010?currentsubgroup=LEISURE) OR oztent and oztrail make some great stretchers, the oztrail easy fold queen stretcher is esp good, and easy to set up. Oztent stretchers are padded but dont come in queen sizes

take no note of the prices as its full blown retail, we have them cheaper if your interested, PM me

Dan

[copba]

Gee those Synmats look the business. :)

I've got a Thermarest, which is super light, and rolls up reasonably compact, but doesn't inflate very thick.

[MacMan]

The Synmat 7 models that we use pack to about 20cm x 15cm, smaller if you work at it. Weight is less than 1KG. I'll never use my Thermarests again.

[Ranga]

Hi Ranga.

The Synmats are EXCELLENT gear. I bought one to try and immediately bought another for the Girlie since she has a bad back. Previous lightweight motorcycle touring trips were difficult for her until she was sleeping on one of those.

As far as I know Exped only make single Synmats and Downmats, and they're not wide things at the best of times. I've never seen double bivvys but I think if you're looking for "together time" another tent is probably the best bet.

THIS (http://www.aussiedisposals.com.au/dutch-bivvy-tent-camo) is what I have. I bought it for an event where early starts are a must and last year I either wasted time evening and morning with the tent setup and packing, or slept completely uncovered in my sleeping bag. Most of the crew on the event used swags, but since I had to fly with most of my kit on top of 20kg of camera gear I really didn't want the additional bulk. Quality is excellent and at 6'6" it was certainly long enough. They specify it at 200cm long, but it's bigger than that, has mozzie mesh and a pole to keep the top off your face. I'm a beanpole so didn't find it too cramped. If you're a lumberjack type or otherwise "width advantaged" it might get a little too cozy.
I'll check out the the Synmats, but think a small hiking tent would be more practical than a bivvy bag. I've actually got a small Kathmandu hiking tent that was great until the waterproofing came away in flakes. :mad: Bloody expensive until I bought it half price (should have been the normal price!).

[Blknight.aus]

We currently use 2 double swags for SWMBO.



You best hope shes not reading this... :)

whatever you get I've started packing those silverfoil emergacny space blankets and disposable ponchos into the packing.

with some deft knotting or some pegs you can get yourself to dry and waterproof. in a real pinch Ive slept on the space blanket curled up underneath the poncho not the greatest night sleep Ive ever had but I was warm and dry in the morning.

[inside]

Here's my run down on our mats from Exped. We have the Exped Downmat 7" DLX and have probably spent 2 months on them over the last few years. It's probably called something else now though. Basically these are the mats with down in them but are wider and longer than their bottom range down mats.

Pros.
When deflated the mats are small. About the size of a large Milo tin.
They are excellent in winter. We have had ours down to -5 but they are rated to -27. You will not get cold on these mats.
Very strong. No punctures but I am aware they are an air mat so take care. Ours came with repair fabric and glue. There's a video somewhere on Youtube of a car driving over them with no ill effects.
Two joined together = double bed size... more on this later.
Integrated pump. There's no need to take a 12V or foot pump to get them inflated.
You are off the ground which I think is a better feeling than a Thermarest being only 2cm off the ground.

Cons.
You need to pump them, about 3-5 mins per mat. Great when it's cold as you get a work out but still a hassle.
The mat itself is uncomfortable... more on this later.
It can go flat and although I'm conscious of this have never had it happen. 2 months solid sleeping no flats and no sign that it ever will happen unless I spike them. Really I have 100% confidence they will last the distance. If it does use kit supplied.
You need to deflate and roll them when finished. No big deal really but it takes some time on a night setup then travelling the next day.

This how we use ours. We have two Exped DLX mats that we pump then put inside a double quilt cover. We then put on top a mattress cover. On top of this we then put fitted double blanket. We then add pillows and a quilt from home that is king size so it covers us and our boy who sleeps on a Thermarest next to us.

From the above our setup takes some time but I tell you it is really comfy and you know to keep the good wife happy you need to ensure they are sleeping well. Really once this is done it's a double bed. I soon learnt that I need to pump the mats to full as otherwise we would have sore backs but after that no problems sleeping on them for extended periods. If you had more packing space you could leave the mats inside their respective covers and just pump as required if touring.

My Rating
Comfort as plain mat with sleeping bag. B
Comfort when setup as a bed with padding under. A
Speed of setup. B
Pack up speed. B
Ability to handle cold. A++++++
Packed size. A
Robustness. A-

Better than a Thermarest? Yes but only because they pack smaller and you sleep further off the ground. More a physcological benefit than physical. If you plan on touring a lot with multiple one night setups I'd go a thermarest otherwise I think the Exped wins.

Inflating Exped Mats with Andy Brun - YouTube

[BigBlueOne]

I used a bivvy bag and a softie sleeping bag for years in the Army. Briliiant pieces of kit!

[SimonM]

Hey Ranga Personally I love a swag, always have the best nights sleep. We use ours in the tent as well for our oldest, and I can take it away on my own if need be - though this hasn't happened for a while. It is a generous sized single and is wide enough for me to share with one of the kids.

[Ranga]

You best hope shes not reading this... :)

whatever you get I've started packing those silverfoil emergacny space blankets and disposable ponchos into the packing.

with some deft knotting or some pegs you can get yourself to dry and waterproof. in a real pinch Ive slept on the space blanket curled up underneath the poncho not the greatest night sleep Ive ever had but I was warm and dry in the morning.

Don't you go changing my commas for full stops! :mad::D

[3toes]

I use a cot tent when am on my own. Not this brand however very similar. A version of this is used by US army. Sets up in seconds and is off the ground. Still use an inflatable matress for insulation. Down side is that it is a large size when packed up,

Kamp-Rite :: TentCots (http://store.kamprite.com/catalog/TentCots-orderby_0-p-1-c-249.html)

Have in the past traveled with a space blanket and sheet of plastic. Works well if you are not too proud of how it looks. Others complained that it was noisy when you moved in your sleep. This was never a problem for me as I was asleep and never heard a thing.

[weeds]

umm, been thinking about this

most families touring or camping would be using what you plan to migrate to

we just completed a trip where our three kids were not invited to use any space in the camper trailer (mainly becase there was not enough room).

this meant we had 3 x sleeping bags, 3 x self inflating mattress's, 3 x pillows. one bonus is the nine seperate items can be stored in nooks and crannies if you need but................the kids struggled getting the sleeping bags and mattress's back into the covers so this is time consuming if your are on the move every day

now if when we travel without the camper trailer i would need 5 x everything............i now have enough swags for the whole crew and this is how we will travel as i reckon i could roll up four swags in the time it takes to sort out one of the kids mattress and sleeping bag

i guess i have done all my camping in swags as i hate sleeping bags with a passion so i guess i am going to be hard to convert

re: space, i have pretty much allocated the roof rack to four swags and tent

[Ranga]

umm, been thinking about this

most families touring or camping would be using what you plan to migrate to

we just completed a trip where our three kids were not invited to use any space in the camper trailer (mainly becase there was not enough room).

this meant we had 3 x sleeping bags, 3 x self inflating mattress's, 3 x pillows. one bonus is the nine seperate items can be stored in nooks and crannies if you need but................the kids struggled getting the sleeping bags and mattress's back into the covers so this is time consuming if your are on the move every day

now if when we travel without the camper trailer i would need 5 x everything............i now have enough swags for the whole crew and this is how we will travel as i reckon i could roll up four swags in the time it takes to sort out one of the kids mattress and sleeping bag

i guess i have done all my camping in swags as i hate sleeping bags with a passion so i guess i am going to be hard to convert

re: space, i have pretty much allocated the roof rack to four swags and tent

Interesting point. I guess my rationale is based on wanting to keep the swags secure and dry inside the canopy. Have you ever had a problem with rain and the swags being on the roof? Theft is obviously another possibility, but I think to think the risk is minimal. I 'spose another argument is extra drag on the roof - wonder how much of an effect they would have?

The biggest space issue with the swags is the mattress. Maybe I should replace the existing foam mattress with an inflatable style. Then you could still roll it up like a normal swag, but take up probably half the space.

Forgot to mention, that we never sleep in our sleeping bags - they're always unzipped and act like a doona, and often just rolled up with the swag.

[Blknight.aus]

The biggest space issue with the swags is the mattress. Maybe I should replace the existing foam mattress with an inflatable style. Then you could still roll it up like a normal swag, but take up probably half the space.

Going one better than that is the heavy duty water proof compression bags. Get the swag loosely rolled up, slide the swag into the bag, cup the end around the suction end of one of those 12V centrifugal displacement inflators and fire it up, swag, in about 2 minutes your swag can be down to 1/3rd its original size and water proofed. While the pumps still running secure a netlace around the water proof bag and secure with a slip knot.

Ive seen one guy doing it with the vac line off his brake booster.

[Ranga]

Going one better than that is the heavy duty water proof compression bags. Get the swag loosely rolled up, slide the swag into the bag, cup the end around the suction end of one of those 12V centrifugal displacement inflators and fire it up, swag, in about 2 minutes your swag can be down to 1/3rd its original size and water proofed. While the pumps still running secure a netlace around the water proof bag and secure with a slip knot.

Ive seen one guy doing it with the vac line off his brake booster.

You got a link to the bags and pump? I've seen bags that might suit, but one with a non-return valve for the pump to attach to would be great (like a heavy duty spacebag, I spose).

[Blknight.aus]

Web-tex Lightweight Dry Sack Waterproof PVC Bag Army Camping Hiking Survival | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Web-tex-Lightweight-Dry-Sack-Waterproof-PVC-Bag-Army-Camping-Hiking-Survival-/160774823387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item6b1dd7c861)

that style of bag,


2pcs DC12V 3800Pa Electric Air Pump for Car Boat Inflation Mattresses 3 Nozzles | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2pcs-DC12V-3800Pa-Electric-Air-Pump-Car-Boat-Inflation-Mattresses-3-Nozzles-/190696032032?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c665e8720)

that style of pump

Webbing Strap - Kitbag (http://www.kitbag.com.au/products/Webbing-Strap.html)

with that style of webbing used to make a net or get a premade one like
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/598.jpg

once its all in the bag and the pump has pulled it down you simply wrap it up in the net and lace a cord through the webbing to hold it together,

you might know someone who has some of the webbing to spare.