3l D4 Starter Motor Failure

[BobD]

My starter motor failed catastrophically one week after returning from our trip from Perth to Cape York via the Great Central Road and return via Kununurra and Broome. There was little warning but the starter motor sounded slightly sluggish for the last two weeks prior to it expiring in a cloud of smoke. My wife was shopping in the suburbs and roadside assistance trucked the car to Southern Landrover. It was burnt out and it was fixed under warranty.

We were travelling on rough dusty roads and plenty of creek crossings but when the starter was pulled apart it was dry with only a trace of dust inside. In fact, it is fully sealed apart from a breather hose. We may need to look into protecting this breather hose by extending it and fitting a filter but I haven't looked at it yet. The dealer said it extends downwards from the starter motor.

My car is a 2010 model with 94,000km on the clock and the warranty expires in Februrary. There were no starter motors in Australia and it took a week to get one from the UK. Luckily this didn't happen while we were travelling in remote areas. We did 14,000km in 4 weeks and a big delay waiting for parts would have been a problem for us. No one we spoke to in Perth has heard of a failure on the 3l starter motor before.

Interestingly, we were travelling with a 200 series LC. A power steering pipe failed at Lorne Hill, 300km north of Mt Isa and the car had to be trucked to Mount Isa. The steel pipe is quite long with a rubber pipe at one end and a rigid union to the pump at the other, a disaster waiting to happen on rough roads. It failed at the rigid union due to fatigue.

There was one part in Australia and it was at Alice Springs. This is because they have had to replace some at Alice Springs in the past so they very kindly kept the $600 part in stock. Otherwise it was ex Japan. He was lucky and they flew the part to Mt Isa on the Friday of the long weekend in October and he was on the road to Darwin on Friday afternoon. The failure happened on the Thursday so the service was excellent for the Toyota.

No failures for the D4 but the starter failed one week after returning to Perth. As I said, we were very lucky.

Bob

[DoctorJ]

Gee Bob your not half right in being lucky but what it shows is where LR needs to improve here in Australia if the brand is to grow, as much as it hurts me to say it this is where Toyota excel and the reason so many others choose Toyota over other brands. I personally wouldn't change as there is no other vehicle that gives me the joy my LR does but I only wish they provided this sort of service, if they did and people compared LR to other vehicles it would be game over!

Cheers
Julian

[~Rich~]

I just had my main muffler replaced with another OE one.
They had just the one in the country as well!
They are stainless steel so I guess they don't get replaced often.

[BobD]

Rich,

How do you find your BD LR fuel tank? I have one too and find it is just a little bit low so it keeps getting bashed on rocks etc. It seems to cope with the bashes OK but I wonder about the longer term. Has yours survived OK?

Bob

[~Rich~]

Off topic, but yes they can take a fair bit of abuse!
Not mine as yet but I've seen a quite bent one up on the hoist at my mechanics. Looks like it would take 10 / 15 ltrs less than straight one.
I've only got a small reshape under the bottom of mine.

[minibloodhound]

I have the 2.7 D4 but my starter motor failed in Bamaga after driving it up along the old tele track. Luckily I had just been to the tip the day before and was about to drive south. As it was under warranty land rover shipped it back to cairns where after taking it apart the starter was (allegedly) full of mud and water. Like you it is something that I need to look at before my next big trip as I don't want it failing in the middle of the Simpson!

[Graeme]

The water-proofing of the 3.0 starter could be better than the 2.7 starter because LR's specs for the 3.0 starter had much more stringent submerged operation requirements. However at least 1 company declined to tender due to what they considered impossible conditions that would result in continual warranty claims. My understanding is that there were no changes to the starter used in the 2.7 D4 from previous models.

[BobD]

I reckon I first noticed my starter motor being a bit slower than normal at Seisia, soon after completing the portion of the Telegraph track that we attempted. The deepest water we did was on the telegraph track at Elliot Falls. We didn't do Nolans due to the depth of water at the moment.

Southerns reckoned there wasn't any water and maybe some dust inside. They showed it to me and everything looked pristine, apart from melted wires on the stationary windings at the gear end. I suspect that the water crossings must have done something due to the timing of the symptoms but I guess dust from the thousands of km or dusty roads we did may also have contributed. Otherwise, it might just have been due to fail and the timing had nothing to do with the trip. Unfortunately, Southern had no clear answer as to the reason for the failure but I will look into dustproofing the breather hose I think.

We are also doing the Simpson Desert next year and a starter motor failure in an auto car is terminal out in the bush. Funny thing is that the 200 series driver and I discussed starter motor failure before we did the Telegraph track and were both concerned that water might cause a failure that would stop us in our tracks. He was paranoid and tried not to go through any deep water but I was not too worried. His car failed with a power steering pipe fracture whereas mine got home and then the starter failed. Funny how things turn out.

Bob

[rufusking]

Thanks for the info BobD. Always good to know what can fail. I read / heard somewhere that the starter replacement is a body off job, is that correct?

[BobD]

Thanks for the info BobD. Always good to know what can fail. I read / heard somewhere that the starter replacement is a body off job, is that correct?

They told me it was a "labour intensive job" but it didn't seem to take long. The starter motor came in late on Monday afternoon and the car was ready at lunch time on Tuesday so if they took the body off it didn't take long. I will try to find out and post it here.

EDIT

Just rang the service man and he said the body didn't come off. The engine is a tight fit and the starter is hard to get to but they get to it from underneath. He said it would be do-able in the bush but it would be a terrible job and you would be better with long rubber arms! (paraphrase) The roadside assistance guy got a wrench to it from underneath and managed to hit it. This was with the car at normal height. When I tried to see it I couldn't get far enough under to see anything but he knew where it was and how to access it.

Bob

[Graeme]

I had a squiz at what was involved in removing the starter in order to remove the main power cable to fit a fuse en-route to the alternator. I will cut the wire in-situ to fit a fuse holder because it looks to be too much work.

[jonesy63]

I have the 2.7 D4 but my starter motor failed in Bamaga after driving it up along the old tele track. Luckily I had just been to the tip the day before and was about to drive south. As it was under warranty land rover shipped it back to cairns where after taking it apart the starter was (allegedly) full of mud and water. Like you it is something that I need to look at before my next big trip as I don't want it failing in the middle of the Simpson!

I think my starter died last Saturday - while at Lidsdale SF. I had to be winched backwards down a slippery/gnarly track - had a couple of "change of underpants moments"! Got towed home by roadside assistance - glad I had it!

Anyhow, if I press the starter without pressing brake pedal - all the usual start dash lights are on and message saying to press brake pedal to start. If I press the start with the brake pedal pushed - it makes a click noise from near starter - then the dash lights go out on their own (and it doesn't turn over!) So think it's the starter.

From what I've seen, the starter on D3/D4/RRS diesels are all the same. There does appear to be a difference with the Ford Territory TDCi starter - it only has one breather hose, compared to two on the LR ones. (A major difference in prices too - LR ones about double Ford ones!).

Anyhow, getting a quote to repair tomorrow. My mobile LR mechanic says he is getting a few of these jobs lately. :mad:

[Piddler]

I think my starter died last Saturday - while at Lidsdale SF. I had to be winched backwards down a slippery/gnarly track - had a couple of "change of underpants moments"! Got towed home by roadside assistance - glad I had it!

Anyhow, if I press the starter without pressing brake pedal - all the usual start dash lights are on and message saying to press brake pedal to start. If I press the start with the brake pedal pushed - it makes a click noise from near starter - then the dash lights go out on their own (and it doesn't turn over!) So think it's the starter.

From what I've seen, the starter on D3/D4/RRS diesels are all the same. There does appear to be a difference with the Ford Territory TDCi starter - it only has one breather hose, compared to two on the LR ones. (A major difference in prices too - LR ones about double Ford ones!).

Anyhow, getting a quote to repair tomorrow. My mobile LR mechanic says he is getting a few of these jobs lately. :mad:

I would check battery before forking out for a starter.
Cheers

[jonesy63]

The battery and aux battery are fine (both over 12.5v). Thanks.

[Stuart02]

The battery and aux battery are fine (both over 12.5v). Thanks.

That may not mean much.

[jonesy63]

Before NRMA tow they check the battery, fuses, etc. They also put their portable battery on it with no effect.

I've been keeping the batteries in good condition by weekly charging overnight with a Ctek charger.

Anyhow, I'll find out today what it is... hoping it is the starter.

For reference, the starter part number is LR043962 or Denso DSN944.

[jonesy63]

My mechanic confirmed it is the starter motor. The click noise is the solenoid engaging, but the starter motor is not turning. Off to order a new one.

[jonesy63]

In case anyone else has the symptoms I mentioned above, the starter motor was dead. It was replaced today and still won't start. Turns out the 400A mega fuse (YQG500010) has blown when the starter died.

[ytt105]

or...... the fuse only had blown.

You will never know.....

[scarry]

FWIW,a battery can have a surface charge and have 12.6 volts or so at the terminals.

If you have someone turn the ignition key or push the start button(depending on model vehicle),and the voltage drops to something like 6 to 8v,the battery is probably shagged.

This is exactly what happened to one of our work vans on Monday.New battery,all good.

[jonesy63]

or...... the fuse only had blown.

You will never know.....

After the dead starter was pulled out, I wired it with jumper leads and wouldn't turn over. ;)

[jonesy63]

I picked up a new mega fuse ($15) this morning and my D4 is now starting better than it has in years. :D

Take off the positive battery terminal, undo plastic cover, take out two T40 bolts, replace mega fuse and reassemble.

Here is a photo of where the mega fuse is located:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/114.jpg

The cable to the starter motor connects to the bottom of the mega fuse and runs out the gap, as in above photo.

Cheers,
Rob

[Grentarc]

FWIW,a battery can have a surface charge and have 12.6 volts or so at the terminals.

If you have someone turn the ignition key or push the start button(depending on model vehicle),and the voltage drops to something like 6 to 8v,the battery is probably shagged.

This is exactly what happened to one of our work vans on Monday.New battery,all good.

If I do too many short runs in the D4 (and I haven't hooked up to the charger in a while either), my batery indicator is at the bottom of the yellow reading and the D4 refuses to crank, so I have to hook the two batteries together to "jump start" it.
Now I always try keep an eye on the voltage indicator when cranking as I now know when my next start will be my last before charger time.

[scarry]

If I do too many short runs in the D4 (and I haven't hooked up to the charger in a while either), my batery indicator is at the bottom of the yellow reading and the D4 refuses to crank, so I have to hook the two batteries together to "jump start" it.
Now I always try keep an eye on the voltage indicator when cranking as I now know when my next start will be my last before charger time.

Mine often sits for a while or does short runs as well.
I keep an eye on the Traxide SC80.
If the green light is flashing i know the voltage is around 12v,so i know it needs a charge.

Actually,when the vehicle 'wakes up' as it is unlocked,and a door is opened,the voltage will sometimes drop below 12v and the led will flash,but then it will creep up to around 12.2v or even sometimes 12.25.

I still put the charger on as the battery charge is getting lower than it should be.

[LRHybrid100]

I picked up a new mega fuse ($15) this morning and my D4 is now starting better than it has in years. :D

Take off the positive battery terminal, undo plastic cover, take out two T40 bolts, replace mega fuse and reassemble.

Here is a photo of where the mega fuse is located:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/114.jpg

The cable to the starter motor connects to the bottom of the mega fuse and runs out the gap, as in above photo.

Cheers,
Rob

Hey Jonesy,

Where did you purchase your 400A mega fuse? I have just found mine has popped also trying to rectify a current issue with my D3.

Cheers LRH