Diesel Contamination

[Nate]

Hi All,

I'm having a major issue with my new 2007 D3 TDV6 and wonder whether anyone has had a similar experience or can provide any advice.

I've had the D3 for less than 3 months and it's still under the dealers warranty and I bought an allianz warranty which is yet to kick in. The engine is currently cactus and is at a reputable land rover mechanic in sydney having some or all of the injectors replaced as they have seized up by what is thought to be an unleaded fuel contamination. I know everyone's initial reaction is that I stuffed up at the bowser but luckily I've been keeping my fuel receipts recently so I know exactly where I last filled the car up. We are getting a sample of the diesel from my car tested today to find what the contaminant is and an investigation is being launched by the fuel supplier to ascertain whether their batch of diesel was the source of contamination. I'd be interested if anyone has had or heard of a problem with diesel purchased around the 13th of October in the Blue Mountains, send me a PM if you have.

This is going to be an expensive repair bill with the mechanic saying that in an ideal world (ie insurance job) he'd change all the injectors, fuel line and tank. If no one is going to own up or there is no way of proving the source of contamination then I'll be left with a very hefty bill.

The thing I can't understand, which I'd be interested to hear your opinions on, is that the car drove fine on that same tank of fuel for 300km before it kicked the bucket and during that time it was serviced by another reputable land rover mob in Sydney. The only thing they did in the fuel line was to tighten up a leaking fuel filter, add two diesel additives (injector cleaner and friction proofing) and they have subsequently assured me it was normal looking diesel in the line. So I'm stumped to understand how it can run so well especially after the service, (best it had ever run) and then just die one hot saturday in sydney when the engine was under a fair bit of demand with the A/C running quite strongly.

It leaves me with one of three options as the source of contamination.
1) A bad batch of diesel (the fuel company is being quite helpful at this stage and are carrying out an investigation)
2) The reputable mechanic in sydney who serviced the car unwittingly added something to the fuel line
3) The dealer (who I towed the car back to as it was under their warranty) put something in the tank before they handed it over to another land rover mechanic to remove themselves from a potentially expensive repair bill. It's a far out conspiracy theory but I'm stumped.

Its all very strange. I hope the service station finds they sold me a dodgy batch of diesel and pays it out of their insurance otherwise I'm stuffed.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Cheers
Nate

[jonesy63]

A friend had a similar situation about 4 years ago with water contamination, which killed all the injectors. His insurance policy covered the repair bill. The repair bill was something like $12k. Good luck.

[AnD3rew]

All I can say is that I have had a long and eventful history with Land Rover Australia and their dealers on warranty issues. They are not a responsible organization, they do not care about their customers and will do everything in their power to avoid paying warranty claims. Keep at them, trust nothing they say and harrass them unmercifully.

If it truly is contaminated fuel then try your general insurance policy and see what they cover, you might be lucky.

[~Rich~]

I'm not asking to name the Servo but was it an Independant or a Chain ( Caltex, BP, Mobil) etc.

[Ean Austral]

Not good to hear, My only suggestion would be to make sure you see and read the report about the fuel being tested.

I would have thought that unleaded would have burnt the injector nozzles not seized them, that sounds more like water to me but thats just my limited knowledge speaking.

Good luck and hope it gets sorted at no cost to yourself.

Cheers Ean

[BigJon]

All I can say is that I have had a long and eventful history with Land Rover Australia and their dealers on warranty issues. They are not a responsible organization, they do not care about their customers and will do everything in their power to avoid paying warranty claims. Keep at them, trust nothing they say and harrass them unmercifully.

.

Interestingly I worked at a dealer for about 3.5 years and one of my roles was the warranty officer. I found LR to be excellent with claims (much better than Subaru) and they even often came to the party with repairs outside the warranty period.

I think it really depends on the relationship of the customer with the dealer and the dealer with LR. Obviously if there is bad blood between any of the parties no one is going to put much effort into the claim.

[CaverD3]

Accidental damage if contaminated fuel. Claim on your comp insurance and have it done properly.
What MY model is it?

[Celtoid]

Interestingly I worked at a dealer for about 3.5 years and one of my roles was the warranty officer. I found LR to be excellent with claims (much better than Subaru) and they even often came to the party with repairs outside the warranty period.

I think it really depends on the relationship of the customer with the dealer and the dealer with LR. Obviously if there is bad blood between any of the parties no one is going to put much effort into the claim.

I agree BigJon.

When I first bought my truck my local LR had a complete tool (of the useless kind). Since he moved on the service has been excellent...even above and beyond....covering stuff that could be easily palmed away as accidental damage.

Cheers,

Kev.

[Nate]

Thanks for your comments.

Just to clear up a few mute points.

I bought the car of an independent dealer in Sydney and they've actually been pretty good to me lending me another car but they obviously don't want to pay for something that was not a fault of the car per se.

And the service station was one of the independents. My wife dropped the diesel sample of this morning to be tested and the lab commented how this is not an uncommon problem.

And I don't know whether the injectors are seized or burnt, they were my words all I know is they need replacing.

I'll keep you posted.

[AnD3rew]

Interestingly I worked at a dealer for about 3.5 years and one of my roles was the warranty officer. I found LR to be excellent with claims (much better than Subaru) and they even often came to the party with repairs outside the warranty period.

I think it really depends on the relationship of the customer with the dealer and the dealer with LR. Obviously if there is bad blood between any of the parties no one is going to put much effort into the claim.

All I can say is that has not been my experience.

[jonesy63]

I think it really depends on the relationship of the customer with the dealer and the dealer with LR. Obviously if there is bad blood between any of the parties no one is going to put much effort into the claim.

Agree - if you've had your LR serviced by an independent instead of LR dealer, then they're less likely to help after warranty has ended.

[scarry]

I agree BigJon.

the service has been excellent...even above and beyond....covering stuff that could be easily palmed away as accidental damage.

Cheers,

Kev.

My thoughts as well,i should know as i have had 4 new LR's over the last 13yrs,plus my son has had the Puma.And not all these vehicles were serviced at the dealer.

Actually the dealer went out of their way to rectify a few faults with the Puma at the end of the warranty period,and it had never had a service at a dealer.

But as for their servicing of vehicles(not warranty work),well i will only say i won't use them.

There are LR specialists around that are easily twice as good,at half the price.

As for our work jap vans,the dealer tries their utmost to not do anything under warranty,everything becomes an argument,and they have NO interest in helping with anything

Just my .002cents worth;)

[scarry]

Agree - if you've had your LR serviced by an independent instead of LR dealer, then they're less likely to help after warranty has ended.

Definitely NOT what i have found here,but then again the LR specialist i use ,as do many others on here ,has a very good relationship with the main dealer in Brisbane.

[Nate]

An update.....

Thanks for all the replies.

The car is back on the road as of today and running quite nicely. Its good to be back in it but it doesn't feel the same anymore. It used to give me such a smile just to drive it around, that new car kind of feeling but the whole experience has been sullied by this nasty affair.

The bill for 4 new injectors plus the labour and cleaning of the tank and fuel lines was $6K!!!!! Plus there is a chance the other two injectors will need replacing sometime as well. The group looking after it have done a great job and been very helpful.

The oil lab report came back showing 6 times the normal level of retained solids (sediment) and 2 times the normal level of water. The lab wasn't too worried by the water content but the retained solids was almost certainly the cause of the seized injectors.

The independent fuel company has at this stage washed their hands clean of the issue. With the three things they look at in these claims all coming back negative. The dip tests of the day came back ok (which only look at water content), there was no other customer complaints and there was no change in the fuel sales around that time. Interestingly the day I bought the fuel it had snowed in the mountains, not sure whether that might have affected things. The servo would have definitely been closed for at least 20 hours as the roads were closed that long. Not sure if that might have affected sedimentation in their tanks and I got the dregs from the bottom. As they don't test for retained solids in their fuel there may be an argument to make there.

The statutory warranty on the car was looking promising however the mechanic could find no evidence of sediment in the fuel tank. And the comprehensive insurance doesn't cover for mechanical failure however there is a clause for damage caused by malicious events.Hard to prove that someone maliciously put something in my tank. The allianz extended warranty doesn't cover for mechanical failure caused by contaminated lubricants or fluids.

The thing that gets me the most is that I did all the research, had the car thoroughly checked over, paid extra to covered myself for mechanical failure and told all the naysayers who tried to talk me out of buying a Land Rover that LR's reliability issues had all been resolved. Needless to say they are all sitting back smugly saying I told you so.

I'll let you know should I have any luck making any claims. The one positive to come out of it was being put onto the NSW Range Rover Club by the mechanic. I'll join up and hopefully get some more off roading experience with tem. Who knows I might just manage to kill the last two injectors.

Nate

[Blknight.aus]

in these cases I always reccomend that you have the investigator do a pull through on the fuel line from the filter to the engine and have the output side of the filter particulate tested.

I'll be that if either of those tests were done (or are done now) you will get a result that gets you a warranty job paid for. Especially if you can prove that the filter was recently changed and fitted by a professional mechanic.

[101RRS]

Most insurance will cover for fuel contamination as this is what caused the mechanical failure. However you are at their mercy as this type of thing is not normally specifically addressed in the policy and it is there judgement if that damage comes under their policy.

I have spoken to a claim assessor (not the call centre) at AAMI and they have paid out on many but have also knocked back on a couple - depends on the circumstances but he said they do lean to paying up.

Garry

[oldsalt]

Following on from this thread - I have a question - what after market water/sediment detection systems do members on here have fitted to their vehicles ?
What did they cost and are they effective ?
cheers

[AnD3rew]

Davis performance Landys sell a system called water watch which will alarm if it detects water in the fuel, not sure about sediment. I haven't got one, thought about it, but it is bloody expensive so decided to take the risk.

[Nate]

Hi All,

Thanks to all those who contributed to the thread. I thought I'd let everyone know the outcome of my diesel contamination claim.

The fuel company essentially said it wasn't there fuel and refused to pay.

My comprehensive insurer Lumley came to the party and paid out the $8000. It took a very long time but they paid and it wasn't ever really contested with myself. I'm sure the assessors and underwriters went back and forth for a while and that's why it took so long. The whole time I was the lucky recipient of everyone under the suns opinion that the insurer would never pay out but thanks to advice gained thru this forum I pursued it and got it thru. The loudest of all those was the insurance broker (twit) who assured me in no uncertain terms on every occasion that we were wasting our time. Seeing him eating humble pie was very sweet!

So my advice to everyone if you ever suffer a similar misfortune make a claim with your insurer. I think it just depends on the mood of the assessor on the day, you probably will get lucky as well.

Cheers
Nathan

[oldsalt]

Glad it's all sorted for you Nate - and for what it's worth never - NEVER fill up at an "independent" fuel place... they are notorious for this sort of thing.
I know somebody who collects fuel samples for the tax dept - it's all to do with cost/levies/quality etc - then they have them all lab tested and some of the results would make your hair curl - paint thinners - kero - all sorts of stuff in their supposedly "genuine" fuel...
If my car ran out of fuel in front of an "independent" I'd rather push it than fill up there !!!
This could just be a case of wrong place at the wrong time of course, but I shudder every time I see people filling up at these cowboy places just to save a few cents...
Rant over - glad you had a successful outcome.
cheers

[CaverD3]

Not all independents are bad.
If they go we will all end up paying a lot more for fuel.
If it looks dodgy then you are taking a risk.

Maybe avoid all indies for servicing too? :angel:

[oldsalt]

I'm sure you are right - not ALL independents are bad - but MANY are, and I for one won't risk a huge bill for engine repairs just to save a few cents on a litre of fuel.
As to your sarcastic (I assume?) comment re independents for servicing - I never mentioned them.
I was just warning others of the "potential" risks of "dodgy" fuel... and like all "advice" you can do with it what you will.
This forum is a wealth of information - both good and bad.
cheers :)

[CaverD3]

Glad it's all sorted for you Nate - and for what it's worth never - NEVER fill up at an "independent" fuel place... they are notorious for this sort of thing.

Yes I was being sarcastic, but given your comment above where you are writing off all indipendent servos; I think "be carefull which idependent servos you fill up at"?

[oldsalt]

Point taken Caver - but how do you tell which is a "good" one ? ... I just stick to known "brand" names where humanly possible - and before you dash off a quick reply I am aware they have had problems as well - it's not a perfect world .. alas. :(

[CaverD3]

I use a metro one at Forestville (used to be a different very indie one). No problems with fuel. A lot of the United are OK but little inies I do it by the feel and look of the place. Location is also important.

[connock]

You could use BP and keep them in buisness long enough to destroy another slab of the planet

[Tombie]

You could use BP and keep them in buisness long enough to destroy another slab of the planet

Bwahahahahahahahahaha

Yep.. That's it....

[Vern]

I use a major player for deisel, just had my iloadofcrap go into limp mode due to water in the diesel. Going to put a second filter/seperator on all my diesel cars now.
Just wondering if this will affect the warranty on the wifes Amorok? Better ask VW when we pick it up.

[discotwinturbo]

Just wondering if this will affect the warranty on the wifes Amorok? Better ask VW when we pick it up.

Vw's answer will be yes. It must be proved by the manufacturer that this was the cause of a fault. Manufacturers cannot legally state that it will effect a warranty outright....only if it is proven to be the cause of the fault.

Iload.....see a number of them as escort vehicles going north now. Spoke to one owner. He said it was the best escort car he had. Fuel cost was half, bigger bed, and bigger car. I don't have a Hyundai.....just a VW and a LR.

Brett.....

[Vern]

Personally I can't see how adding a second filter/separator will affect warranty, I thought it would help prevent engine problems due to water in the diesel.

Keep ya VW, I made the mistake of trading my transporter for the iload, bad move on my behalf. Will be going back when its time to update:)