Puma power and diff options?

[ant_schomacker]

Hi guys,

I'm currently looking at options to make my defender slightly more user friendly when towing. Ideally more power down lower (wider power band) and improved fuel economy, I'm not interested in turning it into a rocket taking off at the lights but hopefully something that doesn't bog down too greatly on take off!

At this stage what I'm looking at is something along the lines of a larger intercooler and silicon pipes for it along with some form of ECU remap. I am assuming that I will need some way to measure the EGTs, or will they remain low enough to not be an issue?

My options at this stage are either the BAS or Atric remap - any preferences for one or the other??

I think I've decided on the silicon hoses and intercooler from Landrover Tuning unless someone can suggest a better option.

The final item I'm not too sure about... I'm considering fitting a locking diff to the rear, but apart from wanting something selectable (ARB etc) I have no idea. Will a diff lock provide any benefit when towing, or am I better off spending my money elsewhere? Which of the locker brands would you recommend? And can someone please confirm that I've got the rover diff in the rear? (2010 130 dualcab)

Thanks in advance
Ant

[Tombie]

BAS

And he can supply everything you want...

IC
Hoses
Map
etc...

[isuzurover]

...And can someone please confirm that I've got the rover diff in the rear? (2010 130 dualcab)



Well technically you have a P38-type diff, which is basically a "snub nose" rover diff.

They are a very poor design (as confirmed by the Ashcrofts - the leading experts on rover drivelines). In a 130 that tows regularly, it is not a question of if it will fail, but when.

Your money would be better spent swapping the rear axle for a salisbury type, as fitted to defenders until 2002/2003.

[Drover]

I have the BAS remap and find very good. Pete Bell will custom write a map for needs and vehicle specs. BAS writes his maps to stay in the safe range for EGT's, but a gage is still good idea.

I also use a AliSport intercooler as recommended by BAS, with silicon TF hoses. In addition I also have a decat pipe and centre muffler removal pipe.

All the mods work very well together, but I think the intercooler is of the biggest benifit.

You hear lots of "doom n gloom" prediction on your rear diff, and while I do agree that Ashcroft have stated they are a poor design. I have not had any issues with mine. I tow a off road van and do my shre of off roading.

If you go for a locker make it an Ashcroft, but it will not help with diff strength or your towing ability unless you towing extreme off road.

[Summiitt]

I agree with drover regarding the diff, I'm on my second puma, tow 3.5 ton for work 3-4 days a week, the ute is always heavily loaded, and I drive it pretty hard off road, no diff issues, no noises, no doom and gloom, if it breaks fix it then, if your in the scrub and it breaks, it's not the end of the world, you can still get home..remember that these vehicles are designed to take a fair amount of punishment before they break..trust me!

[Marty110]

I have the BAS remap and find very good. Pete Bell will custom write a map for needs and vehicle specs. BAS writes his maps to stay in the safe range for EGT's, but a gage is still good idea.

I also use a AliSport intercooler as recommended by BAS, with silicon TF hoses. In addition I also have a decat pipe and centre muffler removal pipe.

All the mods work very well together, but I think the intercooler is of the biggest benifit.

So Drover, if you did it again is there anything you would leave out. I've got a autologic remap and am waiting on my Alisport intercooler (have the TF hoses already as I had a hose let go). I also tow for owrk and an off road van plus do 4WD challenge events - no probs with diff so far touch wood (he says while touchinghis forehead...) thanks

[POD]

A locking diff will make no difference whatsoever to power, it's purpose is to apply the power that you do have to both wheels in a situation where the vehicle is not moving due to a loss of grip.
In my current shopping for a 130, the owner of one that I looked at had fitted a 3" exhaust system, said it made a big difference to power and driveability. My short test drive was not enough to confirm or deny.

[Drover]

Hey Marty,

Happy with all the mods (exhaust, map and intercooler) and would certainly do it all again.

Iam however cautious of looking after my engine and don't like having it pushing maximum power.

I use a have couple of maps loaded on my tuning device. Currently I just run a stock map with EGR closed, speed limiter removed. This combo is nice, releases extra power with causing much extra strain and keeps the EGT's low.

Cheers

[ant_schomacker]

Thanks guys,

So at this stage I'm looking at the remap, IC and hoses from BAS... Still considering the rear locker as I'm planning on towing on sand a bit (condsidering the simpson as well) and thinking more along the lines of avoiding losing traction as much as possible with the extra weight behind me.

Drover, where did you get the decat and centre muffler pipes? Is this something that any exhaust shop can do? Is it something that is a simple bolt-out / in job?

Sorry for all the questions, (I did search) but this grasshopper has much to learn :D

[isuzutoo-eh]

Lockers are great for digging holes in sand! Consider an Ashcroft ATB or Detroit Trutrac, they are LSDs and are much better in sand than a locker.
LSDs are also gentler on the rest of the drive train than a locker.

[Tomo]

I got a decat pipe and centre muffler removal pipe from Alive tuning in the UK.
Alive Boutique - Land Rover Tuning Excellence. (http://www.alivetuning.com/alive-boutique/index.php?route=common/home)

The website seems to be undergoing some changes and does not seem to list them anymore......

[patclan]

I don't think you want to be towing anything through the Simpson.

We just did the Simpson in our 110 Puma, 3 adults and fully loaded, roof top tent 2 fridges and all the other stuff, no issue at all in the sand, did Big Red also, took a few goes to get over but did it.

I have remap, inter cooler, decat, but I ran the original map for the desert. No lockers on mine, used the Centre lock on most of the big dunes and only needed to go into low for big red.

They are very capable out of the box, I do like the extra power from the remap though :-)

Pat.

[Drover]

Thanks guys,

So at this stage I'm looking at the remap, IC and hoses from BAS... Still considering the rear locker as I'm planning on towing on sand a bit (condsidering the simpson as well) and thinking more along the lines of avoiding losing traction as much as possible with the extra weight behind me.

Drover, where did you get the decat and centre muffler pipes? Is this something that any exhaust shop can do? Is it something that is a simple bolt-out / in job?

Sorry for all the questions, (I did search) but this grasshopper has much to learn :D

I got mine from these guys, I picked it them up but they do online sales, also they are a site sponsor.

Simply bolt up job, PIA to remove factory cat pipe, you need to remove front prop shaft and crossmember to get it out in one piece. Also wrap the new decat pipe with a ceramic heat tape. Makes a world of difference to heat in side the cabin and much easier while pipe is off.

Defender (2) - sydney4x4accessories (http://www.sydney4x4accessories.com/69-defender?p=2)

You can import them cheaper, just so you know:)

[uninformed]

summit towing 3.5t :eek::eek::eek: holy crap!!! my poor little def tows 1.8t daily and I can notice any weight on top of that...even just 100kg...Im guessing that extra low 1st and the computer controlled engine must make a difference, but hell towing 3.5t regulary in a 110 doesnt seem fun...

Lockers are crap in sand......this is crap :D

locker wont add strength....crap again. One area of concern with some rover diffs are the carrier and side gears. A good quality locker will remidy this. Im not a fan of the P38 diff at all, but Its failure is over hyped here on Aulro. If the backlash is set properly, good oil used and regular changes it should be ok...If this is done and it fails, then I would throw in a 2nd to get me by while I researched a replacement....

I know where there are a few Sals complete disc to disc that may come up for sale in the future...

[isuzurover]

...
Lockers are crap in sand......this is crap :D
...

Indeed. Many times on the beach/sand my lockers have meant I could drive out of situations that would see others stuck (or recover others who were stuck), etc...

[Marty110]

Indeed. Many times on the beach/sand my lockers have meant I could drive out of situations that would see others stuck (or recover others who were stuck), etc...

yeah, I do a lot in sand including towing and use my rear locker. IMHO lock the diff, select the right gear, use the least revs possible and of course only after dropping the tyre pressures. I have used this method during soil surveys on 25,000ha including of a lot of sand and constant stop start

[harro]

Lockers are great for digging holes in sand! Consider an Ashcroft ATB or Detroit Trutrac, they are LSDs and are much better in sand than a locker.
LSDs are also gentler on the rest of the drive train than a locker.



Don't know about digging in sand as I have never had a true locker but for towing and sand work I have chosen Ashcroft's ATBs front and rear.
All my research agrees with the above post.
Originally I was looking at the Detroit Truetrac but the ATB is supposedly a better design and priced pretty well too.
Easier on the driveline and in conjunction with TC a very worthwhile alternative to a manual locker. Although I must admit I have yet to really try them out.
We plan on doing some of the more remote desert tracks towing a camper where possible and as I said after all my research and considering my Defender (02) has the P38 rear and rover front diff, LSD's were the final choice.

And quite easy to fit:).
6 hours for 2 of us to fit both.
And I learnt how to use a dial gauge indicator:D.

Cheers,
Paul.