Picked up my P38, Love it so far but naturally have a few Q's!

[UK_P38]

Hi,

I picked up my P38 HSE and am very pleased with it! Can't wait to get it off road after a bit of a mechanical shakedown! However, there are couple of questions that I would like to put out to the wealth of knowledge!

Firstly, when driving around the roads my steering can feel as though the car is pulling sometimes (most noticably to the left), it feels like it becomes loaded up randomly. This is not constant or under braking necessarily. Could be that the car is tramlining (ironic phrase given I am in Melbourne, but in the UK this refers to the effect of the tyres following the contours in the road, is it the same here?), is this a known tendency for these? I am currently on street tyres but these are not stupidly low profile, I plan to keep using these 'mid week' (KM2's are coming once the wheels are powdercoated :)). Should I get the alignment checked just in case? Seems odd that it is not constant or worsening under breaking.

Secondly, I think I may have an intermittent leak in the EAS, I hate to use the word again but the suspension height seems a little 'random' when I stop and turn off the ignition. I've read some other threads on this and will do a bit of investigating before repeating what's already on here.

That's it so far. I have to say these are great vehicles, every little thing appears to still work perfectly! Lovely looking, comfortable and, from all I've read/seen, great off road! Some fantastic touches like the side mirrors pointing a bit further down when reversing :p

Here's a pic of my new pride and joy:52755

[33chinacars]

I'm sure you will enjoy your P38. As for tram lineing I would get the alignment checked along with front end bushes.
EAS is wonderful when it all works as it shoild but a right pain when not. Get out the soapy water and check for leaks is a good place to start. "o" rings in the valve body etc etc

Gary

[wayneg]

I have 18`s and 16`s. With the 18`s the car pulls randomly as yours. With the 16`s all is much better including the ride. My 18`s are decorating the garage and have done for the past year.
Get used to the EAS and if you still think something is amiss go with the soapy water leak check. Once you have time and confidence rebuild the valve block and pump as part of a maintenance plan. If the air bags are suspect just change them for Arnotts, I would do that ASAP unless you know the bags are reasonably new. Never venture far without a means to reset the EAS or bypass with valves.
Enjoy your new ride and get some scratches on it. Black looks best with bush pinstipes

[Scouse]

Tramlining can be a tyre issue too. If it still does it after checking the alignment, swap the front tyres from left to right & see if it improves.

[UK_P38]

Thanks, useful suggestions as always! Will have some time on Tuesday as I get a day off for a horse race :D and will report back.
Sounds like I'm heading down the right path:
I've got a valve kit on order and an emrgency bypass kit + cable and software for EAS ECU. Was planning on fitting Arnott Gen 111's + longer dampers at some point anyway, this may come sooner than expected! Will most likely replace all the airlines too at this point (what is diameter/material, where do you get it). Other set of wheels are 16 x 8's and will be wrapped in 265/75's.

Will take it in for an alignment check and have alook at the bushes, see if I can buy my tyres from somewhere willing to throw in an alignment too ;)

Having just moved here, I got to start building my tool collection again. An expensive venture!

Will keep you posted. Thanks again

[Scouse]

see if I can buy my tyres from somewhere willing to throw in an alignment too ;)

If Camberwell's not too far away, then check out Tyrepower.
One of 'us' works there:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/boofdtl.html

[33chinacars]

Air line will be 6mm . Got mine from the local bearing/ engineering joint

Sounds like you have most things under control . Just enjoy.

I had an EAS Kicker from BBS to reset suspension faults. Small light great bit of kit .Highly Recommended.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

If you are currently running 18" wheels that could be your issue. Many lads have reported bump steering from them. Tyre pressures are also critical to this issue.

I have ventured away from manufacturers recommendations and gone 38psi in the rear and 35psi in the fronts. No bump steer and better fuel consumption than 38/28psi... And better wear on the muddies!

[glenhendry]

My neighbor just bought a set of four mudders from tirerack.com and got much better prices, even with postage and fitting. Shop around.

[UK_P38]

Will try having a play with the tyre pressure, they are 18's. The 16's are at the powder coaters, got a good deal:

$330, that includes bead blasting, acid striping and powder coating. They aren't machining them or anything but I'm not too cocerned about the few blemishes still being there. ADA Powder Coatings Pty Ltd - Thomastown powder coating specialists (http://www.adapowdercoatings.com/)

Thanks for the tyre purchase advice, will look at tyrepower. Not sure I want the hassel of importing from US...

Definitely got an EAS leak, the poor compressor is running overtime (not constantly) and the car is on the ground after sitting overnight. The tank is completely empty as it takes a while to come back up no normal mode.

Will finally get some time to spend on it on Tueday!

[Keithy P38]

Yeah, check your bags, if they are looking perished they probably need replacement soon!

Gen III's are easy to fit and about a grand to your door. A 13mm spanner, long flat head screw driver and a pair of long nosed pliers is all the tools you need. The rears you can leave the inner guard in but the fronts are easier to get out without the guard unless you disconnect your sway bar.

[superquag]

Either go to curly metal thingies.. or replace your air-springs 'yesterday'. If you wait...your pump will die from overwork. -Their life is short anyway, and leaks will shorten it even more. Any leaks, no matter how small.

Windex works as a leak detector, comes in a handy dispenser and doubles as a window-cleaner.:D

Or buy some kid's Bubble Mix. - the bubbles grow bigger before bursting !:p

[PaulP38a]

After doing the soapy water (or windex) leak test on the valve block collets, air bag collets and the air bags themselves, if it is still losing pressure overnight, try removing the Delay Timer Relay from under the front passenger seat (black box about the size of a match box) which will stop auto levelling of the EAS. If it still loses height overnight, the leak is internal to the valve block... likely one of the solenoid shafts, diaphragm or non-return valves.

Get an o-ring repair kit from eBay (mine is officially without the diaphragm but I will include an experimental one if you ask) and replace the compressor piston seal.

Follow my valve block rebuild instructions at EAS Valve Block Rebuild Guide « PaulP38A.com (http://paulp38a.com/99p38a/eas-valve-block-renew/)

Do not go the curly things in place of air springs! If you are tempted, slap yourself! If you are convinced it is the right thing to do... sell the P38 and buy a Disco 2 :p

Go the Gen III air springs or at least the Gen II's.

If you are going to keep the P38 for a while, get a Nanocom Evo II from Blackbox-solutions.com - great tool for diagnosing and clearing faults in all ECU's.

Some 18" wheels seem to be more problematic than other and it depends on the car. My 1999 P38 gets the tramlining issue with 18" rims and 30.5" tyres, yet the same wheels and tyres on wifey's 2000 P38 has no issues.

With 16" rims and 33" BFG KM2 tyres, mine has no tramlining issues.

Cheers, Paul.

[UK_P38]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll let you know how I get on after a day of tinkering tomorrow. I take it there is no official Aus supplier of the arnott's? Just buy direct and have them shipped over. Definitely no intention of the going to metal curlys, as has been said many a time, they are part of the appeal of the P38!

[UK_P38]

Oh and Paul, I picked up one of your EAS cables. This, with the software will give the diagnostics and fault clearing won't it? Just have to carry a cheap laptop around too...

[PaulP38a]

No Aussie stockist of Arnott bags that I know of. I was stocking them for a while but it wasn't really cost-effective due to import duties and GST.

Best to buy direct from them and avoid import duties as they are less than $1K.

Some people have found them a bit cheaper through UK shops like p38spares.co.uk

The EAS Unlock Cable I supply with Storey's EAS Unlock Suite will read and clear EAS Faults and allow you to test compressor and VB operations. A cheap netbook PC running Windows XP is about the most reliable thing, but it does work on Vista and Win7. Haven't tried it on Win8 yet. Can also be made to run on a Mac Book with VMware Fusion or Parallels as long as the USB/Serial is passed through to the VM properly.

Cheers, Paul.

[UK_P38]

So I did some soapy tests and found a leak in one of my valve blocks, it was bubbling from the mating surface between the end valve (nearest the front of the car) and the next one in, see pic. I checked all the collets but couldn't get to the rears, how are these best approached. I could only find one inlet on the buffer tank (at the back of it), where is the other one? Would this small leak be sufficient to cause the problem of deflating or should I keep searching, think it is dropping in a matter of hours.. The bags all looked to be good, will get around to replacing them soon though.. The pump get's very hot, is this normal? I also noticed it was running when the car was in access mode, is something strange going on? It does turn on and off once at normal or off road mode.

Checked the tyre pressures and they were ok, I am starting to think the bushes are worn, it seems too unpredictable to be alignment. The weight of the steering varies between heavy and light.

Can't wait to get all these little niggles sorted and get some off roading done!

[wayneg]

The pump does get very hot under normal conditions. The pump fills a tank so will run under any conditions to get the tank up to pressure regardless of ride height
The Valve block re seal is not so hard to do as long as you take your time and be systematic in your approach. I would start planning for the job, give yourself 5 uninterrupted hours.

[PaulP38a]

Only one line going in/out of the tank back to the valve block and separate lines in/out of the dryer. Refer to my schematic at http://hardrange.com/downloads/manual/EAS-ValveBlock-v1.5.pdf

Wayne is correct in saying that the compressor gets hot under normal operation. It gets even hotter when it runs a lot trying to maintain pressure in the tank due to a slow leak somewhere.

If your VB is leaking at the Non-Return Valves end, it could cause a leak in any or all of the bags as well as the tank.

[UK_P38]

I have got a valve and compressor seal kit coming from the UK, my parents are bringing it as my Christmas present (said they counldn't fit a set of gen 111's in their bags ;) ! Unfortunately I asked for it as a precaution some time ago, I didn't realise I would need it soo soon! It doesn't include the diaphragms, should I order a set of these as well?

Hope to get the steering looked at today... Will keep you posted when trace the problem. It has one new tie rod end and the bushes don't appear to be excessively worn....

[PaulP38a]

I have got a valve and compressor seal kit coming from the UK, my parents are bringing it as my Christmas present (said they counldn't fit a set of gen 111's in their bags ;) ! Unfortunately I asked for it as a precaution some time ago, I didn't realise I would need it soo soon! It doesn't include the diaphragms, should I order a set of these as well?


Did you know there is a guy on this forum who can get you the VB O-ring kit and compressor seal quicker and probably cheaper than the UK crowds? ;)
I can include the new/experimental diaphragm as well...

[andrew53]

Well you will find your P38 a great car and it will take a little time to get to know how it works. regarding your steering check the obvious things like correct tyre pressure as wrong pressure will cause it to follow uneven bitumen. From there I would check tyre wear and alignment and then maybe have the front wheel bearings serviced. Regarding the air suspension, when you park your car it detects that you have got out so what it does is goes into leveling mode to keep the car level. Sometimes it goes around each corner letting out a little air to get it level and this is normal. As you drive it will drop to it's lowest level at around 80 Klm hour for stability and then back to the middle setting for around 60klm hour. Off road it will jump up to the highest as it detects the rougher terrain. I usually push the button on the dash and just hold it in the middle setting for around town. Check the bottom of the air bags to see how cracked they are and if they are bad change them out as they will eventually have slow leaks. take time to read from the internet about your car as you will find it very helpful. don't be put off if it seems like they have heaps of problems as they are a really good car if you look after it. With the air suspension they are really easy to change but google it so you know what to watch out for. Finally buy most things straight from the UK as it is a mere fraction of the price. I buy from " Island 4x4" as they are well priced and usually get my order within a week, the best being 4 days. Another thing is if you think that it takes a long time to pump up the air springs then the pump might need a new kit in it. I bought a new pump and a kit so that I have a spare and both jobs are a 5 minute job to do. "scaffolder.jones@gmail.com" is my email if you have more questions so contact me if you need as it is a help in the beginning. At the end of the day they are a beast off road and many Toyota/Nissan people underestimate their ability. Go to Youtube and type "sevketselim's channel" . These guys are in Turkey, scroll through til you get to their 4x4 videos and watch and see just how good these RR are and you will learn that way what they are capable of. Cheers Andrew

[wayneg]

Did you know there is a guy on this forum who can get you the VB O-ring kit and compressor seal quicker and probably cheaper than the UK crowds? ;)
I can include the new/experimental diaphragm as well...

There is also the invaluable benefit of after sales service and telephone help which Paul ( HardRange) has provided time after time for those having issues with the re-builds. I for one crushed one of the tiny seals during the VB rebuild and Paul offered a replacement free of charge to save the day. Paul also sells a superior EAS lead, having a cheap one proved false economy, the replacement from Paul is much better quality. Paul also pays a royalty fee to Storey Wilson, to guy who developed the EAS unlock software.

[UK_P38]

Paul, I'm kicking myself I didn't get the kit from you! Unfortunately with my parents coming they really wanted to get me something for Christmas and that was the only thing I could think of that would fit! Got to keep the olds happy :) I will need a set of diaphragms though and heard you do a great front tow point?

Got in touch with 'boofdtl' and went to Tyrepower in Camberwell, Micheal down there is a great guy, really helpful and knowledgeable! Highly recommend him! He spoke very highly of Hard Range also, hope to meet you guys soon! Went over the bushes, nothing excessively worn, nothing was bent. He tightened the bearing tensioner in the steering box (only around 1/8th turn) and that took a lot of the 'slop' out the steering and reduced the light to heavy loading up feel I was getting, think that was exaggerating the tramlining. Went back and checked the the alignment, it was out, not huugely but enough to cause extra tramlining, he bought the toe back into spec and it is driving much better. Still some slight tramlining but nothing like before. Hope changing to 16's will cure it completely! Collect the wheels tomorrow and will order up the tyres!

Getting closer to finally getting it muddy! boofdtl shared my thoughts that it looked like it hadn't ever been used off road :D

Will have another look over the EAS system, airbags all look in good condition. It's my front valve leaking, which is the exhaust right? It's not lowering much over night (maybe an inch), but is taking time for the access mode to stop flashing when I first get in. Would it make sense that the tank is emptying and a bit out of the springs, then the tank has to refill before it'll lift it?

[Keithy P38]

That's right mate! I make a habit of letting the car idle for a minute to fill the tank before I raise it.

[wayneg]

Off road it will jump up to the highest as it detects the rougher terrain.


This is not exactly correct. The High setting is driver selection and you are probably better off leaving it at standard hight when off road unless you need the extra clearance or are running oversized tyres. The system can also sense if the car is bellied out and gives an automatic extra lift to try and gain traction, this extra hight is not driver controllable.

[UK_P38]

So when you turn off the ignition, it isn't meant to stay in normal mode but drop to access, then go back to normal when you start it up again?? I thought access mode was only activated manually and it should just stay in normal mode while standing....

[justinc]

ignition off, stays in normal mode or whichever mode it was in prior to switching off. if left in access mode, then as you drive off it will automatically select normal mode.


jc

[Keithy P38]

While self leveling when the car is off it may whittle its way down to access. Uneven ground or leaks in the system will cause this!

[justinc]

While self leveling when the car is off it may whittle its way down to access. Uneven ground or leaks in the system will cause this!

Yes if parked on reasonably level garage floor with no leaks it should stay almost at normal. It will alter as passengers alight and the doors are then shut.

I have one parked at work at present on a slope, it has now settled to try and level itself, as soon as I start it it goes straight to normal height. The same vehicle when left inside the workshop for 3 days while I fiddled about with blend motors and heater orings etc etc stayed at the height it was when I switched it off.

JC

[Harry Safari]

Ive only just bought a 97 RR hse Im pretty sure the block is cracked . Is the 4.6 really that prone to cracked block problems as all Ive been able to find are tales of woe. Are there any economic replacement options ie 3.9 for 4.6 changeover. Im not worried about power loss or performance just love the car but am finding no option other than the scrap heap. Thanks for any help.Harry

[UK_P38]

Thanks guys, probably just occurring due to the leaky valve then. It's great getting to understand this system, never owned a car with so many electronic controls. Pretty sure my system is working fine, just the leak is lowering a little bit and emptying the tank. If only I didn't have to wait for the valve kit!

[PaulP38a]

Check my VB rebuild guide at EAS Valve Block Rebuild Guide « PaulP38A.com (http://paulp38a.com/99p38a/eas-valve-block-renew/)

If you are sure it is either of the front solenoids leaking (exhaust and inlet), easy enough to take off the solenoid cap and solenoids to check if they are ok. A bit of o-ring lube or Vasolene will sometime help to reseal them.

If you PM me your address and undertake to send a half-decent bottle of red for Christmas, I can send you an o-ring kit that will be with you before the weekend ;) Keep the o-ring kit from your parents as a spare for the proactive 12 month maintenance of the EAS.

[UK_P38]

Good news so far! The new tyres are on and the car barely tramlines at all now. I've rebuilt the compressor and valves/valve block, seems to be much faster. The old seals were knackered and brittle, glad I did it and found the leak between the inlet and exhaust valve block. Compressor teflon piston seal was also very worn. Only finished late this evening so will see how it gets on tomorrow. But it fills, drops and raises much faster. I hope it will stop dropping overnight or at least raise up faster in the morning.
Think I will start looking at the brake pump next...

[UK_P38]

Oh and while the car was fully depressurised it was clear the tyres will rub at full articulation on the 'top outer part of the inner guard' on the rear and the front inner guard needs is very close, the front section needs to be fully retained forward....

Will put up some more pics soon, very pleased with the wheel/tyre combo.

EAS bypass kit should have been here a week ago, once that's in I'll be looking to get out and muddy!

[UK_P38]

I am starting to get a little frustrated with the EAS system, I am giving it all the love it deserves. I think I still have a leak...
All seemed fine in the morning, it had dropped a bit but I was not parked on the level. Raised up to normal in less than 1 minute.
Lunch time, was parked on the level, had dropped a little but raised quickly.
Home time, front left had dropped to the bump stop. It raised up and drove home. Had a very small leak from the eshuast valve solenoid and presumed the Front left valve had a massive leak. (clearly my o-ring seating was not ideal!) Took the valve block out, reseated all the o-rings in these two solenoids. No leaks from the top valves, can't check bottom but the front left was no longer dropping. Car still appears to drop a little when parked. In high mode the pump turns on then you can hear the exaust solenoid turning on and off, then the pump starts again. Could one of my height sensors be out and the car constantly trying to self level?

Just want it to be working perfectly, get in and the height be as I left it. Want to preserve my pumps life and it not be constantly on/off.. It seems so close! Do I still have leaks!?

No leaks from the grommets.

How is it best to acess the rears? I have not checked these grommets..

Should I use the rsw software to check for any discrepincies in heights?

Cheers!

[Keithy P38]

I did an arch to wheel centre measurement when I was adjusting my heights. It's not the proper way to do it, but as I was idling the car the whole time I didn't want to be measuring the bump stop pad to axle heights.

Mine sits for a week at a time, stays exactly where I left it when I return home. If you don't have a leak my money is on the sensors conflicting. What happens at one corner will effect the opposite corner in the opposite way (ie front left drops, right rear raises). This could be your problem.

[DT-P38]

I am starting to get a little frustrated with the EAS system, I am giving it all the love it deserves. I think I still have a leak... All seemed fine in the morning, it had dropped a bit but I was not parked on the level. Raised up to normal in less than 1 minute. Lunch time, was parked on the level, had dropped a little but raised quickly. Home time, front left had dropped to the bump stop. It raised up and drove home. Had a very small leak from the eshuast valve solenoid and presumed the Front left valve had a massive leak. (clearly my o-ring seating was not ideal!) Took the valve block out, reseated all the o-rings in these two solenoids. No leaks from the top valves, can't check bottom but the front left was no longer dropping. Car still appears to drop a little when parked. In high mode the pump turns on then you can hear the exaust solenoid turning on and off, then the pump starts again. Could one of my height sensors be out and the car constantly trying to self level? Just want it to be working perfectly, get in and the height be as I left it. Want to preserve my pumps life and it not be constantly on/off.. It seems so close! Do I still have leaks!? No leaks from the grommets. How is it best to acess the rears? I have not checked these grommets.. Should I use the rsw software to check for any discrepincies in heights? Cheers!
We should try to have a Melbourne P38 EAS gathering before Xmas. I am going away the next 2 weekends but perhaps the following Saturday or Sunday would be worthwhile talking about? Alternatively Fantom might be doing some EAS work this weekend? He is pretty experienced in fault finding and rebuilds now ;-).

I am also looking to order a nanocom evo this week. Yippee! Not sure how long it takes to deliver from Cypress but within a couple of weeks I would hope. No doubt it will be handy for fault finding on sensors and EAS in general. Can someone confirm they are multi car?

[UK_P38]

Sounds like a great plan. Phantom commented on another link about a meet. Either day of the weekend 8/9th would work for me. Be awesome to get some local knowledge!
Not had a chance this eve to look at the EAS again but will tomorrow.

[PaulP38a]

I am also looking to order a nanocom evo this week. Yippee! Not sure how long it takes to deliver from Cypress but within a couple of weeks I would hope. No doubt it will be handy for fault finding on sensors and EAS in general. Can someone confirm they are multi car?

Dave! you don't call, send flowers or chocolate any more :p

Wish I could get down there for your P38 catch-up day. Really enjoyed the couple I did manage to get to.

Nanocom software modules are multi-vehicle for the model they are licensed to, and not locked to the VIN, i.e.:


you will get the P38 GEMS module and green cable, so your Nanocom may be used on any GEMS P38
if you also wanted to use it on Motronics/Thor P38's you would simply order the unlock code at time of initial purchase or some time later.

[Darth Rover]

Hi all,
I had similar tramlining issues with my P38, as well as suspension 'dancing'. I cured the tramlining by fitting 4 new tyres (Toyo 255/55 18). Huge difference. The EAS problems were cured by putting a seal kit in the valve block. I also had a dodgy height sensor and after changing it, the car has behaved itself ever since. All my suspension issues were cured by a specialist company in Carlton and I've been very happy.
I'll be in Melbourne with my P38 over the 8/9th Dec. weekend, and it will be great to catch up with other P38 owners. Keep in touch with details if it happens.:)
DR

[DT-P38]

Dave! you don't call, send flowers or chocolate any more :p

Wish I could get down there for your P38 catch-up day. Really enjoyed the couple I did manage to get to.

Nanocom software modules are multi-vehicle for the model they are licensed to, and not locked to the VIN, i.e.:


you will get the P38 GEMS module and green cable, so your Nanocom may be used on any GEMS P38
if you also wanted to use it on Motronics/Thor P38's you would simply order the unlock code at time of initial purchase or some time later.


Thanks Paul. Been slack in car front of late. Family pressures have been a bit more than normal. Will give you a call tomorrow some time to have a quick catch up.

[DT-P38]

Hi all,
I had similar tramlining issues with my P38, as well as suspension 'dancing'. I cured the tramlining by fitting 4 new tyres (Toyo 255/55 18). Huge difference. The EAS problems were cured by putting a seal kit in the valve block. I also had a dodgy height sensor and after changing it, the car has behaved itself ever since. All my suspension issues were cured by a specialist company in Carlton and I've been very happy.
I'll be in Melbourne with my P38 over the 8/9th Dec. weekend, and it will be great to catch up with other P38 owners. Keep in touch with details if it happens.:)
DR

Will do Darth. Just gotta get a few things sorted early this week and I will get something happening.

[poleonpom]

We should try to have a Melbourne P38 EAS gathering before Xmas. I am going away the next 2 weekends but perhaps the following Saturday or Sunday would be worthwhile talking about? Alternatively Fantom might be doing some EAS work this weekend? He is pretty experienced in fault finding and rebuilds now ;-).

I am also looking to order a nanocom evo this week. Yippee! Not sure how long it takes to deliver from Cypress but within a couple of weeks I would hope. No doubt it will be handy for fault finding on sensors and EAS in general. Can someone confirm they are multi car?

I've always wanted to meet other P38 owners - I can provide the homebrew! My EAS is up the proverbial and I have been meaning to get my act together and do something.

Jonathan

[FANTOM P38]

Well guys hopefully this isnt too premature but I spent most of the day today playing with air lines/fittings and testing inbetween and looks like have sorted EAS system leaks finally. Found a couple of tees leaking in bypass system as well as R/H rear solenoid leak so I pulled out solenoid and plunger oring crushed so was replaced also noticed very evident depression in rubber seal on bottom of plunger so out came drill press & 1200 wet & dry (wet) and ground off depression & replaced solenoid. Re pressurised system manually first and seemed to be holding so switched EAS back on with my new switching setup beats removing relay etc! Anyway took for quick run and then parked out on street in level position and all seems good so far! Guess I will know for sure in morning but cerainly looking promising.
So Dave your turn next! after you get that blown bag sorted of course.
Happy to hook up for EAS day soon with other guys too! :BigThumb:

[UK_P38]

Didn't get the chance to look into mine again this weekend but will this week. Have a valve bypass kit to fit too. Would definitely been keen for a meet up, perhaps with a little introduction to some nearby track too ;)