Please share your Defender 130 problems

[Sparkys]

Hi everybody, I'm a noob with a few questions about the Deefers. I currently drive a 2004 Rodeo Dual Cab which has been a fantastic car, but I'm looking to change to a newer, solid axle 4x4 dual cab chassis with a bit more off road cred. Which leaves me with two options, the new Toyota Landcruiser dual cab or the Landrover Defender dual cab (130). Or if Nissan ever get their act together and make a dual cab with the 4.2 turbo diesel! The purpose of this thread is to ask you to let me know of any problems with the 2.4 TDci powered 130 Cab Chassis Defender............I know, I know, you don't see them as problems you see them as 'character'! I want to compare them to the problems I know about with the LC79 dual cab. Please let me know of any more you may have experienced. So far I've searched this forum and come up with the following problems. * Water leaks into the cabin area including into the footwells * EGR system is best blocked off * Handbrake drum can bind up when taken offroad * Axles and CV's are a bit weak

[newhue]

Hmmm, you can open a can of worms here. As all makes have there issues. I think just have faith in the warranty period. LR at least are happy to fix issues and accept they happen. You wont find Toyota being so understanding. As for a Defender, By the end of warranty I think the truck will a solid performer.

I'm going to tell you some positives however. Fill a 130 till the brim, add the family and go for a burn into the desert. It will leave the LC behind in comfort and capability. Take it down some rocky rutted crazy hill with the family, and you are so glad first gear is only capable of 15km/h tops. A Rodeo doesn't even compare as I have had one myself, but you dont have to worry about bottoming out anymore, or GVM. And I'd forget about Nissan coming good.
A LC may blow a front diff, a Tdci may blow a rear diff. But for the money down on a defender, then nicely modded, the finish price comes to about the start price of the Toyota.

[Sparkys]

Hi newhue, thanks for your reply. One of your threads showing how water was pooling in the floorwell is where I found one of the potential problems. I'm not trying to open a can of worms so hopefully I don't! I understand that all makes/models have issues, what I'm trying to do is identify what those issues are and make a decision for a long term car that I will be happy with. The LC79 for example has a narrow rear wheel track, potential injector issues (and at $2,000 each x 8 injectors that's not a cheap fix) and (still) a pretty poor handbrake. I did the same with my Rodeo (identified the problems before buying it), I bought the petrol V6 knowing that it was an unpopular model (but that meant a cheap buy in price) with poor fuel consumption, weak clutch and faulty O2 sensors. I fit a vapour injection LPG system, a heavy duty clutch and some aftermarket O2 sensors and have had 260,000 trouble free kilometres so far. I agree, the price of the Defender is one of it's attractive points. An LC79 is $75,000 including onroads, and there are no second hand ones for sale (yet). Whereas a low km 130 (still in warranty) can be had for around $46,000 leaving $29,000ish for modifications. $29,000 would go a loooooong way to solving any of the problems leaving a very solid performer. That is probably one of the biggest factors for me at the moment. However, I want to know that I haven't missed any of the obvious problems that may pose a big cost later on.

[The ho har's]

May have missed it, what year are you looking at?

Jason's/newhue is a puma, ours is a TD5.

There are differences.

Foot well, yes water will invade but, it will get out just as fast when above the water;)

You can hose out a defender inside if it gets muddy, and it usually does:)

EGR, yes we have ours blanked off and chipped, goes like the stig now:)

We have taken ours, Plenty Highway, Tanami Track, Gibb river road and several roads all over Aus with the slide camper and have never had trouble with the hand brake.

Did do a half shaft on our driveway doing 40K's:( have Land Rover heavy duty fitted now:)


Mrs hh:angel:

[Jack Isa]

love the truck but two gear boxes within 50,000 km is a bit much, and yes always serviced by a LR "just bad luck i was told''

[Sparkys]

Thanks guys. Ho Har, looking at a Puma. By the way, sorry about my posts not being separated into paragraphs, I put separate paragraphs in and when I hit submit it lumps them all together. So the half shafts and boxes are weak?

[newhue]

EGR valves seem a definite ongoing problem, but remap will resolve that. You can also disarm the immobiliser with the remap. Perhaps worthy as it to has been know to cause some grief.
People have had rear diff issues with the P38, some have had several replaced. Mine has been good. A salisbury is a reasonably easy re fit, other wise a rover diff can do but I'm not clear if they are much better than a P38.
Some have had gear boxes issue, but many have not. I recently had a transfer case replaced, I seem to be out there on my own for that one.
Most have had a replacement clutch, but I think the upgraded replacement has been stable.
Suspension seem to be fine, as is the motor and turbos. Water, it's going to leak so get your head around it. Same with dust, but mine is I'd say 95% dust free. The 110's seem to leak more.
That's about the big ticket items. Most seem to happen with in the first 60K.

There seems to be few things that are just part of the build, like rear windows lowering 25mm. However I changed the winders to hang vertical and seems to have fixed it. Door handles working loose, just small silly stuff really.

[Cammo]

Mine is a 2011. In 16000 kms I have had 2 rear gearbox seals (the second one was to fix the ineffective first repair), a strange engine harmonic (repaired by realigning exhaust), drivers door I'll adjusted, drivers door handle worked loose, and now the tub is rubbing on the rear of the cab on the left hand side. Which is where the rear diff breather runs. So now it's not breathing. LR to look at when I can get it to them.

I love it. They're not just a vehicle. Landcruiser owners don't understand.

[lambrover]

I think it depends on what you want to use the vehicle for as well.

I don't rate the cruisers off road ability at all. The front end has little flex same as the rear and its on leafs on the rear.

When the v8 cruiser 4 door came out they did a comparison with the puma 110, the cruiser was optioned with mud tyres and factory lockers front and rear couldn't keep up with the 110 with its factory tyers.

Saying this the 110 has traction control and the 130 doesn't but with the price difference you now have money to do a few upgrades;

Lockers front and rear, this will help address the issues with the rear P38 diff.

Hy tuff axles.

With these mods they aren't needed if you use the vehicle normally it's just if you are going to use it properly.

With the P38 rear diff I think they break or fail because people don't check them even though they are a known weak spot, my mate had a puma 130 and I jumped under and yep it was loose so we fixed it up there and then, I think they shag out because the loose preload and destroy them selves. After fixing it no problems.

So get under your vehicle and inspect it catch stuff early and it will cost you less rather then waiting for it to break or the dealer to pick it up.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Sparkys]

Thanks Guys. Lambrover, who is the 'they' that compared the 110 to the 76? I would like to read that.

[brendanm]

I have had a 130 for around 140k kms. Often off road in heavy going. My biggest problem is my friends in the V8 landcruisers can not keep up. They are are happy to have me tow them through or winch them out. All our vehicles are heavily modified.

[lambrover]

Thanks Guys. Lambrover, who is the 'they' that compared the 110 to the 76? I would like to read that.

It was in a 4wd Action magazine, even though the rover went further the cruiser still scored higher.

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[jplambs]

"my mate had a puma 130 and I jumped under and yep it was loose so we fixed it up there and then"

Lambrover sorry for the ignorance but how did you test that it was loose?

Sparkys I was only up in Strath a couple of days ago with my 130, I do come up there every now and then so if you want to have a look over it PM me and we can probably arrange a time. My only major criticism of the 130 in 12000kms of ownership is the size of the fuel tank. And strangely enough I haven't had an issue with either rain or dust although as you would know we haven't had a lot of rain lately but we have had plenty of dust.

[lambrover]

"my mate had a puma 130 and I jumped under and yep it was loose so we fixed it up there and then"

Lambrover sorry for the ignorance but how did you test that it was loose?

Sparkys I was only up in Strath a couple of days ago with my 130, I do come up there every now and then so if you want to have a look over it PM me and we can probably arrange a time. My only major criticism of the 130 in 12000kms of ownership is the size of the fuel tank. And strangely enough I haven't had an issue with either rain or dust although as you would know we haven't had a lot of rain lately but we have had plenty of dust.

You park the car on flat ground or chock the wheels, hand brake off and in neutral then jump under the car and grab the pinion and give it a shack there should be no play at all in the pinion.

Whilst your under there check your uni joints as well.

From memory they have a collapsable spacer for getting your pre load on the bearings, if that is stressed and it collapses when loaded up you loose your bearing pre load and the pinion won't run correctly in its alignment and cause premature wear and ultimately diff failure.

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[Sparkys]

Thanks jplambs, I would love to have a look over it. And Lambrover, thanks for the heads up on the comparo. I watched about 10 of the 4WD Action DVD's on the weekend with Jamie's 130 Defender in it, and the car seemed to get stuck a LOT more than the LC40, GQ shorty, LC60, LC80 and GU that it travelled with. Do you think that is because of the wheelbase?

[Sparkys]

What year did the defenders get air bags?

[Sue]

What year did the defenders get air bags?

As far as I am aware they don't have them yet.. :)

[isuzutoo-eh]

I have had a 130 for around 140k kms. Often off road in heavy going. My biggest problem is my friends in the V8 landcruisers can not keep up. They are are happy to have me tow them through or winch them out. All our vehicles are heavily modified.

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

So, so true. I can't keep up in my County either.

[Sparkys]

As far as I am aware they don't have them yet.. :)

Awesome! That's a tick in their favour:) for me

[The ho har's]

What year did the defenders get air bags?

:Rolling::Rolling::eek:

pre puma 130's don't even have electric windows:eek:

Mrs hh:angel:

[rangietragic]

Thanks jplambs, I would love to have a look over it. And Lambrover, thanks for the heads up on the comparo. I watched about 10 of the 4WD Action DVD's on the weekend with Jamie's 130 Defender in it, and the car seemed to get stuck a LOT more than the LC40, GQ shorty, LC60, LC80 and GU that it travelled with. Do you think that is because of the wheelbase?Isaw that as well,might be the 130 was carrying twice the load of the other vehicles.

[Sparkys]

Thanks all for your feedback, it is very informative and helpful!

I met a 130 owner yesterday and asked him about his car. He was very chatty and we ended up talking for about half an hour. Long story short, he bought his 2.4 Puma 130 new and spent upwards of $15,000 on it in the first couple of months replacing injectors, fuel pump, EGR valve etc. It wasn't covered under warranty as LRA claimed he had bad fuel. He is pulling out the 2.4 diesel and putting in a 6.5 litre (or thereabouts) petrol based on the theory of having a large motor working easily rather than a small motor working hard.

This makes me view the 4.5 from the LC in a good light, as I have been struck by how low the power output is for such a big motor compared to the new TD's available, but it is likely in the same vein of 'big motor working easily'.

The 130 owner did say that the ride in his car is the best of any 4WD he's ever owned.

If the 130's are going to be breaking down a lot with expensive fixes then this puts the higher buy in price of the 79 in a better light also. The most expensive 'common failure' part of the 79 seems to be the injectors.

I have also had an ex Defender owner say that a lot of dust enters the cabin when on dirt roads. Can anyone confirm this?

Hmmm, lots of thinking to do.

Does anyone else have other issues I need to be aware of?

[newhue]

Bad fuel can happen to anyone. Is say ol mate there is plain unlucky. Recently a forum member has sourced an extra water collection bowl to fit the standard filter. This mod is $60 or around $250 with a dash board light that flashes when water is sensed. EGR valves are going to be a regular refit every 40 to 80k most likely. A remap can eliminate this function and give you other benifits along the way.

As for Jamie's truck getting stuck, he usually is third, has it weighing 4T with god knows what, and just maybe, it could be a bit of selective editing. I do find it surprising whÃ*t he does get stuck in, but he also goes through where others don't. I think it's more driver skill than poor car capabilities.

Dust. There are small square rubber blocks on the front and rear edges of the doors. I replaced mine with some bigger, and softer rubber from Clark Rubber. I did this half way through a trip in Alice Springs. From then on and still with the air con on I found dust entry to be minimal. Mind you, it wasn't terrible to start with, just not as good as jap doors.

[Allan]

Re dust, just get the latest model door rubbers, made all the difference to my old Puma.

Allan

[BilboBoggles]

Thanks all for your feedback, it is very informative and helpful!

I met a 130 owner yesterday and asked him about his car. He was very chatty and we ended up talking for about half an hour. Long story short, he bought his 2.4 Puma 130 new and spent upwards of $15,000 on it in the first couple of months replacing injectors, fuel pump, EGR valve etc. It wasn't covered under warranty as LRA claimed he had bad fuel. He is pulling out the 2.4 diesel and putting in a 6.5 litre (or thereabouts) petrol based on the theory of having a large motor working easily rather than a small motor working hard.

This makes me view the 4.5 from the LC in a good light, as I have been struck by how low the power output is for such a big motor compared to the new TD's available, but it is likely in the same vein of 'big motor working easily'.

The 130 owner did say that the ride in his car is the best of any 4WD he's ever owned.

If the 130's are going to be breaking down a lot with expensive fixes then this puts the higher buy in price of the 79 in a better light also. The most expensive 'common failure' part of the 79 seems to be the injectors.

I have also had an ex Defender owner say that a lot of dust enters the cabin when on dirt roads. Can anyone confirm this?

Hmmm, lots of thinking to do.

Does anyone else have other issues I need to be aware of?

All Common Rail Diesels are rooted easily with bad fuel. Lancruisers are MUCH worse, because if you do get bad fuel you have twice the bits to fix v8 vs 4 cyl, and they are Toyota GOLD plated bits. I've heard of $30K+ repair bills on these V8's from less than 50cc's of water .

Most fuel contaminations are covered by comprehensive car insurance - at least the decent policies.

[Summiitt]

I'm onto my second puma, have tallied up around 200,000ks between them and have driven them very hard with lots of heavy towing due to my work, I've been pretty impressed with them so far, reliability hasn't been an issue, did one egr at about 90k in my first, vacuum pump at 105k and the second ute,now at 75k hasn't missed a beat, dust does get in but a few bucks spent at Clark rubber fixed the issue.I'm still running all standard driveline as I havnt managed to bust it yet..

[PAT303]

Thanks all for your feedback, it is very informative and helpful!

I met a 130 owner yesterday and asked him about his car. He was very chatty and we ended up talking for about half an hour. Long story short, he bought his 2.4 Puma 130 new and spent upwards of $15,000 on it in the first couple of months replacing injectors, fuel pump, EGR valve etc. It wasn't covered under warranty as LRA claimed he had bad fuel. He is pulling out the 2.4 diesel and putting in a 6.5 litre (or thereabouts) petrol based on the theory of having a large motor working easily rather than a small motor working hard.

This makes me view the 4.5 from the LC in a good light, as I have been struck by how low the power output is for such a big motor compared to the new TD's available, but it is likely in the same vein of 'big motor working easily'.

The 130 owner did say that the ride in his car is the best of any 4WD he's ever owned.

If the 130's are going to be breaking down a lot with expensive fixes then this puts the higher buy in price of the 79 in a better light also. The most expensive 'common failure' part of the 79 seems to be the injectors.

I have also had an ex Defender owner say that a lot of dust enters the cabin when on dirt roads. Can anyone confirm this?

Hmmm, lots of thinking to do.

Does anyone else have other issues I need to be aware of?

Buy a Toyota,you sound like you don't want a Defender that will break down alot with expensive fix's ;).The most common failure part on the cruiser isn't the injectors,it's the whole vehicle. Pat

[Landie333]

I've come to not really favour the V8 LC. Yeah, they have nice torque and power. But I find them really poor to drive. They have no character. Being that I don't own the LCs i'm driving means I can thrash them. Which they seem to do reasonably well.

[Sparkys]

Buy a Toyota,you sound like you don't want a Defender that will break down alot with expensive fix's ;).The most common failure part on the cruiser isn't the injectors,it's the whole vehicle. Pat

I am certainly beginning to lean heavily towards the cruiser.

After hanging out on the Landcruiser forums and the Defender forum for a few months I am seeing a massive trend here with posts saying "Aargh, my Defender is doing this and this and this wrong" and very, very few posts on the Landcruiser forum saying "My Landcruiser is doing this wrong".

I am in no way knocking your Defenders either, I value all of the feedback that's been provided here and they still remain a good car in my view.

[jplambs]

Hi Sparkys, sorry I haven't been in touch, I haven't been back up your way since about two days before you first posted.

Regarding the dust issue, mine is a 2012 MY and I haven't had an issue with it at all, in fact I get almost no dust ingress at all, which when compared with my last car, a falcon, is great. That thing used to attract dust like flies. I also do about 50 - 60 % of my driving on unsealed roads.

Regarding the Landcruiser V Defender, they attract two very different sort of buyers. Most farmers I knew that had the 80 series Landcruisers took them everywhere and anywhere. Most of them that have uprgraded to the 200 LC don't take them off the road at all, a few pull trailers/caravans but never on a surface that would be considered challenging.

As far as the landcruiser utes go there are quite a few people around here that have them and like them. The biggest issue early on was the oil consumption on the engine, one bloke in NZ went through four of them. They are still only half coil sprung and your front and rear axle are different widths. (Not sure if that a bad thing, just saying) The other difference is the constant four wheel drive as apposed to the selectable version. I prefer the constant.

I've just hit 13000 Km's in the defender without any major issues, a few bolts needed tightening at the first service last month and a few things like that but those are things that on a LC would be done at about the 3000km mark.

People that buy defenders are generally speaking people that like to use them for the purpose that they were created for. I bought mine for a dual purpose farm/town car being a 130 with a 6'x6' tray it's absolutely ideal for that usage. I'm probably not going to break an axle in it anytime soon whereas somebody that goes rockclimbing every Saturday in their 90 or 110 is more likely to do that.

The take home message that I got from being on Aulro for awhile is that Landrover are great on warranty repairs, including that fact that if I break down in a paddock why'll come and get it - not many other manufactures make that sort of an offer on the assist package. Toyota on the other hand don't seem to be too good at that sort of thing.

The other thing I know from personal experience is that Toyota drivers in general don't discuss mechanical issues like we do. Take for instance my best mate who bought an SR5 hilux at the same time I bought my Defender. I asked him when he hit the 10,000 km mark if he had had any issues with it and got the usual "no, its been very reliable" speel. It then emerged later on in the conversation that the hilux had done a CV at about 8000 that had put him out of action for a couple of days. (He's a landscaper and the dealers solution was to loan him a normal car while the warranty work was done, needless to say it looked fairly funny with all his tools jammed into it.)

[akelly]

I had a major issue with my Def130 this week, the first one in ages. I'm so angry about it I may stop buying LR altogether.

I started getting a strong smell of ATF in the cabin, but it would go away if I opened the vents or turned on AC. I checked under the vehicle, no ATF leaks anywhere. ATF levels were good in the PS system and (obviously) there's no ATF anywhere else. I kept driving and the smell got worse and worse. It was driving me nuts and I hated driving the car with the smell.

Eventually after days of frustration I started ripping the car apart to find the source. Didn't take long to find it: a 1L bottle of ATF had burst under the back seat.

Screw you LRA, this is the last time I put up with your poor reliability issues!

;)

Cheers,

Adam

[PAT303]

I am certainly beginning to lean heavily towards the cruiser.

After hanging out on the Landcruiser forums and the Defender forum for a few months I am seeing a massive trend here with posts saying "Aargh, my Defender is doing this and this and this wrong" and very, very few posts on the Landcruiser forum saying "My Landcruiser is doing this wrong".

I am in no way knocking your Defenders either, I value all of the feedback that's been provided here and they still remain a good car in my view.

Mate,just between you and me,Land Rover owners are honest and will give you an honest answer if asked,Toyota owners never have any issue's at all ever,every single one of them is rock solid as told on LC forums,the two troopys I once had were the only two toyota's ever made that broke down,I must be very unlucky to get the only two bad ones. Pat

[justinc]

i 100% agree with Pat.

more than a few times in the past i have had to coax out of toyota owners the real reasons behind the fact their vehicle is either 'unavailable' or that they have traded it in....:eek:

we are talking late, expensive models here.

i also have quite a few ex toyota (and other jap 4x4) customers who now drive lr's, and love them

Toyota do make some great gear though, our family car is a 2002 Lexus LS430, which is our second one now (previously LS400), both bought at used prices:D, can't fault them on any level. The 1HDT FTE and 12HT are also awesome diesel engines, and the Denso factory A/C in all models is very reliable and efficient.

It is a pity there are also opposites to these positives:(.


JC

[justinc]

and just to add, i work on these vehicles (landies, not toyotas) for a living, yes there are some irritating and downright head scratching moments at times, but i will say that there is very little to complain about when you drive them, you just get it.

something totally lacking in nissan, toyota, ford, mitsubishi is the character and enjoyment of actually driving landies:)

thats why i have a 27 year old diesel 110. can't get much more character than one of those:)

life is too short not to 100% enjoy your ride:cool:

jc

[strangy]

life is too short not to 100% enjoy your ride:cool:

jc

While not a 130, my son has replaced his D2 with a new 76 Crusier V8 TD

Not really happy except for the grunt...which is only better than the TD5 above 110:o

[justinc]

While not a 130, my son has replaced his D2 with a new 76 Crusier V8 TD

Not really happy except for the grunt...which is only better than the TD5 above 110:o

One of my customers sold his v8 d1 to buy a flat tray v8 td cruiser for towing his 5th wheeler. he bought it second hand, the previous owner paid some huge $ when new; it was optioned up with factory lockers etc etc but every time i drive it it feels like all the previous models, except for the sound of the v8. quite disappointing really for all that dosh :(. iirc $75k on the road was the figure:o.

jc

[Allan]

Mate,just between you and me,Land Rover owners are honest and will give you an honest answer if asked,Toyota owners never have any issue's at all ever,every single one of them is rock solid as told on LC forums,the two troopys I once had were the only two toyota's ever made that broke down,I must be very unlucky to get the only two bad ones. Pat

You’re not wrong about Toyota owners and honesty. A few months ago S.W.M.B.O. and I were at middle Lagoon north of Broome for a fishing holiday. After a long day out in the boat we watched this Queenslander with his Toyota DV8 drive straight onto the beach with his Kimberley camper in tow, it went down like a ton of bricks, spring tide on the rise and only a shovel to dig out with. We offered him a winch out with the Puma but he refused, said he'd camp there for the night (would have been 2mtrs under water in a couple of hours). So we left him to it only to watch the community tractor haul him up the beach. Strangely enough a 130 TD5 showed up the next day fully loaded and boat behind we had no need to offer him assistance.


Allan

[newhue]

maybe everyone has a LC story, but it is hard to get them to open up.

Earlier this year we camped at Welford NP, while I was setting up this LC owner came over and said with hand on hips, Land Rover hey. I reply yeh mate, made it all the way out here without breaking down or an axel.
he said you like it hey, I said yeh mate, best car I've ever owned. I love baiting them.

He asked us to join him around the fire that night, and though he would not go into it, like there is some sort of LC sworn secrecy; but he did elude to he has had several ongoing issues and was not taken with the vehicle at all. He did say the v8 towed his big van well though.

My 130 must have given me more grief than most so it seems, but I still stand by what I said to the bloke.

[sashadidi]

I am certainly beginning to lean heavily towards the cruiser.

After hanging out on the Landcruiser forums and the Defender forum for a few months I am seeing a massive trend here with posts saying "Aargh, my Defender is doing this and this and this wrong" and very, very few posts on the Landcruiser forum saying "My Landcruiser is doing this wrong".

.

Re the LC V8 just do not get water in the diesel via dodgy fuel and overload your one small fuel filter, you will need a second morgage then...... like has happened here in New Zealand to some farmers $15000 plus and Toyota ran away from it saying the very small filter was adquate.
Here are some "happy" Toyota V8 people to balance your views.:angel:
200 series noisey turbo diesel - Landcruiser - Toyota Owners Club - Australia (http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/17964-200-series-noisey-turbo-diesel/)
and here TLC 200 Series VX Diesel - Bad Experience - Landcruiser - Toyota Owners Club - Australia (http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/28493-tlc-200-series-vx-diesel-bad-experience/page__hl__%2Bwater+%2Bfuel)

:wasntme:

[PAT303]

Some happy campers there. Pat

[Sparkys]

Sasha, yes there seems to be numerous problems with the 200 series V8 (as per your links), especially with the twin turbo system. However, since I'm asking about the 130 compared to the 79 dual cab, using the 200 series is like comparing a Disco and a Defender, they are two completely different cars.

RE Toyota drivers 'honesty'. Interesting thought but not really something that can be justified as a reason against buying one over a 130. It's kinda reads as though you are saying "Well we can't list problems with them so we will just say that the drivers won't tell us the problems". Again, not trying to stir trouble just stating how it appears.

JC, you state when you drive a Landie you 'just get it'. THIS makes sense! :cool: That is one of the strongest reasons I'm considering one (and the cheaper buy in price), however I need to justify it financially not just emotionally.

I think this thread has probably run its course as there don't seem to be any new faults/problems from Defender owners that I can include in my list for comparison. Thanks all for your input, it's been very valuable. Now to make a decision. :D

[wally]

Cheaper to buy. Cheaper to register. Cheaper to run. More enjoyable to drive. Better load carrying. Better off road. Buy the Toyota if you have trouble fitting in the LR (it's a bit cramped for large bodies), but I honestly can't think of too many other reasons why you would. Land Rover dealerships are a bit thin on the ground, however, and Toyota ones are everywhere. That's probably a factor for many people.

[easo]

I am certainly beginning to lean heavily towards the cruiser.

After hanging out on the Landcruiser forums and the Defender forum for a few months I am seeing a massive trend here with posts saying "Aargh, my Defender is doing this and this and this wrong" and very, very few posts on the Landcruiser forum saying "My Landcruiser is doing this wrong".


Never seen a LC/Nissan/Other owner talk about faults. Have seen them with faults, have seen then with issues no different to ours. Have helped LC/Nissan/Other with break down recovery and had them sit in the passenger seat of my 130 telling me all about Land Rover Faults while their car is on my trailer.

Had my TD5 130 since new in 04, 90% of my faults have been stupidity and self inflected. (i.e. "probably can't get up that", diff locks, lets go... "hey we got up! lets do it again..." Axle and CV go bang).

My 2cents, do some test drives and make a decision.

Regards Easo

P.S. 130s RULE!

And an image for sex appeal demonstration....
Mt Terrible, VIC
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/515.jpg
Durrack, NT
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/516.jpg

[lardy]

I have a 1998 so 300 tdi130,totally mechanical but I guess you would be looking for goodies, either way keep em serviced and no dramas.
They are great straight from the factory but you can chuck money at it to make it shiny if you wish.
If you are above 6ft buy seat rails from mud uk or similar.
I don't have air con on mine and I live in the pilbara and is totally do-able.
Great off road and not bad to drive to Perth and back, which I have done heaps of times.
I would go a pootrol before going a Tojo if I was into supporting the Japs

[newhue]

Sasha, yes there seems to be numerous problems with the 200 series V8 (as per your links), especially with the twin turbo system. However, since I'm asking about the 130 compared to the 79 dual cab, using the 200 series is like comparing a Disco and a Defender, they are two completely different cars.

RE Toyota drivers 'honesty'. Interesting thought but not really something that can be justified as a reason against buying one over a 130. It's kinda reads as though you are saying "Well we can't list problems with them so we will just say that the drivers won't tell us the problems". Again, not trying to stir trouble just stating how it appears.

JC, you state when you drive a Landie you 'just get it'. THIS makes sense! :cool: That is one of the strongest I can have it for 2500 if I'm he first one there it financially not just emotionally.

I think this thread has probably run its course as there don't seem to be any new faults/problems from Defender owners that I can include in my list for comparison. Thanks all for your input, it's been very valuable. Now to make a decision. :D

Ol mate did drive a 79 series. If the bloke is too embarrassed to tell what problems he has had with his all mighty land cruiser, I'm not pressing him.

I also had a chat with a NSW high country parks guy. They reverse park their 79's off the track when on a service roads. He was saying how gutless the V8 was under 3000rpm. They were finding they could not crawl back onto the road with out giving it heaps. They could in there previous LC's with the 6 packs. Again just another driver story. I don't know, never driven one.

Again NSW NP have 2 79's, and one 130 at Girraween, or did have. A ranger told me one day when they have serious off road maintanence or work to do thay take the 130. But drive into town they like the 79's. Again just diver conversations. Ring Toyota or Land Rover if you want paper proven facts. Let us know how you go.

[RVR110]

Hi Adam,

Could you please post a link to the corresponding "Please share your LC79 problems" thread that you would have posted on the land cruiser forum? I've been following this thread with interest and I' very keen to hear what the LC owners had to say about LC79 problems.

Cheers,
John

[PAT303]

Ol mate did drive a 79 series. If the bloke is too embarrassed to tell what problems he has had with his all mighty land cruiser, I'm not pressing him.

I also had a chat with a NSW high country parks guy. They reverse park their 79's off the track when on a service roads. He was saying how gutless the V8 was under 3000rpm. They were finding they could not crawl back onto the road with out giving it heaps. They could in there previous LC's with the 6 packs. Again just another driver story. I don't know, never driven one.

Again NSW NP have 2 79's, and one 130 at Girraween, or did have. A ranger told me one day when they have serious off road maintanence or work to do thay take the 130. But drive into town they like the 79's. Again just diver conversations. Ring Toyota or Land Rover if you want paper proven facts. Let us know how you go.

It's interesting about the lack of torque,last weekend I drove up one of the local lookouts here with another group in a cruiser,the cruiser with 4 adults on board never looked like getting up until low range was selected,my TDCi never looked like stopping with five adults on board in high.There's more to vehicle's than big power figures. Pat

[Sparkys]

Hi Adam,

Could you please post a link to the corresponding "Please share your LC79 problems" thread that you would have posted on the land cruiser forum? I've been following this thread with interest and I' very keen to hear what the LC owners had to say about LC79 problems.

Cheers,
John

Hi John.

My name is actually Sam. Here is the link to the corresponding thread I started on LCOOL. LCOOL.org :: Log in (http://www.lcool.org/forum/viewtopic.php't=26790)

I'm pretty sure you have to be logged in to read it though.

[Summiitt]

To my knowledge, act forests are looking at the defenders at the moment because a kitted out lc 79 needs all new suspension and gvm upgrade to handle the fire fighting equipment required... The defender is legal as standard with the same kit... Will keep you posted

[RVR110]

Hi John.

My name is actually Sam. Here is the link to the corresponding thread I started on LCOOL. LCOOL.org :: Log in (http://www.lcool.org/forum/viewtopic.php't=26790)

I'm pretty sure you have to be logged in to read it though.

Thanks for responding and sorry about mixing your name up. As you suspected I can't read the thread without being logged in. I started to fill in the registration form but partway through found out that I would have to lie about owning a LC to proceed so I didn't proceed. I'll see if a friend can email me a copy.

[Sparkys]

Yes I was lucky, I own an LC single cab as a work ute so I listed that when I joined.

[jplambs]

Thanks for posting the link Sam, I joined up today so as to read it. (Before anybody asks, yes I do have a landcruiser - HZJ75 ute that I use on the farm). I had better withdraw my generalist comment about most Tojo drivers. That forum is really good and reminded me a lot of the openness and frankness that we experience here on Aulro. It's a real shame that it is not "viewable" without joining up. I've used the the LCOOL website before when looking for instructions on repairing farm utes but never realised that they had a forum.

Was interesting to see the thread you started on that site almost mirror the one on Aulro Sparkys. Started off with people telling you about issues and then descended into a bit of "our car's better then their car".

[newhue]

Perhaps the question is a bit useless in the first place.
Both companies have been making cars for long time now. Both models have their issues be it small or large in the owners eyes. And within both models there are random cars the experience more difficulties than others.
If it were a new model, like when LR launched the Tdci in 07, and the question was asked whats it like compared too? Then it may be of use.

Toyota work the dealer ship pretty hard from what people I know have said who have been into a dealership. In reality cars sit in workshops waiting for parts either from Melbourne or Japan, as do LR's, but from the UK.

I find my dealership work very hard to make my car like new for me. I don't abuse it but I do use it. They find problems with it regularly and go about ordering in parts to keep it new. I don't ask, but I do have a good relationship with them. I have not met anyone who can tell me the same regarding Japanese brands, and when I owned one it was definitely my experience.

When my car is working well it's great, when it's not it a heap. Overall it's been my favourite car to own for many factual and non factual reasons. Articulation and gearing with open diffs is pretty amazing off the show room floor. No need to modify anything, and at 3.5T it pulls itself very well at legal speeds anywhere I have been. To beat my chest I go camping 2 to 3 times a month, and fit in 5 to 8 weeks a year of off road touring. I can also walk up to another Defer owner and almost guarantee I have a mate to talk to for hours if possible.

I can tell you mine has had an ECU, starter motor, ignition, 2 immobilisers, ERG valve, clutch, transfer box, brake booster, master cylinder, swivel hub seals, door locking issues, fuel tank breather, loose door handles, fuel cap, and maybe some other stuff that I cant recall. Some big, some not, and has been flat bed towed 3 times in 2 years, or 60K km. All electrical, 2 very early in the piece, one not so long ago.

would I buy another, most likely yes. The package is not perfect, but sits a whole lot better in my mind than Toyota. Over priced, under specked, and under serviced.

[Sparkys]

Perhaps the question is a bit useless in the first place.
Both companies have been making cars for long time now. Both models have their issues be it small or large in the owners eyes. And within both models there are random cars the experience more difficulties than others.
If it were a new model, like when LR launched the Tdci in 07, and the question was asked whats it like compared too? Then it may be of use.

Toyota work the dealer ship pretty hard from what people I know have said who have been into a dealership. In reality cars sit in workshops waiting for parts either from Melbourne or Japan, as do LR's, but from the UK.

I find my dealership work very hard to make my car like new for me. I don't abuse it but I do use it. They find problems with it regularly and go about ordering in parts to keep it new. I don't ask, but I do have a good relationship with them. I have not met anyone who can tell me the same regarding Japanese brands, and when I owned one it was definitely my experience.

When my car is working well it's great, when it's not it a heap. Overall it's been my favourite car to own for many factual and non factual reasons. Articulation and gearing with open diffs is pretty amazing off the show room floor. No need to modify anything, and at 3.5T it pulls itself very well at legal speeds anywhere I have been. To beat my chest I go camping 2 to 3 times a month, and fit in 5 to 8 weeks a year of off road touring. I can also walk up to another Defer owner and almost guarantee I have a mate to talk to for hours if possible.

I can tell you mine has had an ECU, starter motor, ignition, 2 immobilisers, ERG valve, clutch, transfer box, brake booster, master cylinder, swivel hub seals, door locking issues, fuel tank breather, loose door handles, fuel cap, and maybe some other stuff that I cant recall. Some big, some not, and has been flat bed towed 3 times in 2 years, or 60K km. All electrical, 2 very early in the piece, one not so long ago.

would I buy another, most likely yes. The package is not perfect, but sits a whole lot better in my mind than Toyota. Over priced, under specked, and under serviced.

Thanks Newhue.

I don't think the question is useless, it has had great benefits to me to compile a list of things to help me with my decision. And the DC79 is a completely new model hence it is particularly relevant, for a long time the 130 has had a monopoly on the solid axle dual cab.

You have been a great, open, honest help :)

[Sparkys]

Thanks for posting the link Sam, I joined up today so as to read it. (Before anybody asks, yes I do have a landcruiser - HZJ75 ute that I use on the farm). I had better withdraw my generalist comment about most Tojo drivers. That forum is really good and reminded me a lot of the openness and frankness that we experience here on Aulro. It's a real shame that it is not "viewable" without joining up. I've used the the LCOOL website before when looking for instructions on repairing farm utes but never realised that they had a forum.

Was interesting to see the thread you started on that site almost mirror the one on Aulro Sparkys. Started off with people telling you about issues and then descended into a bit of "our car's better then their car".

No problems JP. Yes, I found the Tojo owners to be just as open as the LR owners so I wasn't quite accepting of the 'Toyota owners won't tell you their problems' line.

And yes, I agree it was interesting to see it evolve into a 'my cars better than their car' thread.

FYI to anyone who is interested I've just purchased a Suzuki DR650SE to ride to work and back whilst I'm making my decision. Now there's a reliable vehicle :cool:

[jplambs]

Hi Sam, have a look at the following link, New Landcruiser 70 Dualcab ute - now with ABS, Bluetooth and more! | 4WD Book & 4X4 News (http://www.4wdhandbook.com/rmp/blog/toyota-70-series-dualcab-ute) its about the only webpage I could find that compares the two vehicles (sort of). As I mentioned earlier the only thing I find annoying about the defender is the size of the factory fuel tank, after seeing that the LC's is twice the size I'm a little jealous.

Have you been able to ascertain if the wheel base of the LC DC is longer than that of the single cab? I seem to find conflicting reports on the web.

[Sparkys]

JP, thanks for the link.

I also have found conflicting reports on the wheelbase of the LC Dual Cab. I had a look at one earlier this week, and visually they appear to be a little longer than the single cab, but this was only by eye and not measured.

[Tombie]

Well...

I spend my time OFF in LR vehicles and my time ON in Toyotas (and the occasional Nissan) so well positioned to see both.

The best vehicles I have used are the Land Rovers, hands down.
Comfort, capability, suitability are all well bias towards LR.

The best Toyota(s) in the fleet - Prado
Most comfortable of them.
Worst in the fleet - The V8 Diesels and particularly the Utes.

Even the newest ones are eating oil, they are gutless, yes they pull off in 3rd but they have no grunt at all... Quite disappointing for a decent lump of V8.

Front diffs. We've done lots, Hubs fail regularly, driveshafts that squeak within 1000km of greasing.
The whole vehicles rattle and bump.

On loose ground / mud they are a handful as the arse wont follow the front - in sand they jump up the inside mound due to track.

Seats - I'd replace with a block of concrete and broken glass for more comfort.

Pinion leaks, 5th gears that pop, gearbox seals, rattling glass, headlights which rival the 1960 Volkswagon Beetle.

Want to hear about the cracks? Like the welds tearing in the engine bays from the vibration? Or seams splitting the sealant and then rusting? Perhaps the bullbars vibrating so much they break their mounts?

Or the leaf packs twisting? The rear leaf bushes flogging out in short order?

Mirrors that vibrate so much from NVH you cant see in them...

Bad clutches that slip or shudder... Or dont disengage enough to allow gear changes.

Electronics and electrics which play up, engines wont fire some times.

Or how about the weak oil filters that leak?
The 160,000km service that will cost you a full fuel system replacement? Its about $8k

Or the fact that when they break - Toyota dont have spares in the country for 4-8 weeks? Its happening here right now.

We just got a heap of new ones - dirt cheap... Through TFM (Toy Fleet Management) - WHY? Because they are struggling to sell them...
No-one is buying them at the moment.... And why would they? Toyota cant provide spares, their reliability is fading and their reputation is now recognised as the PR and Marketing hype that it always was.


Both brands have their issues - but they are not any better than the rest...


As for Old mate and the 6.0L engine swap.... That should make that vehicle useless... And cost more than just sorting the one he has.

Japs dont do good high output diesels - Europeans do....
Hence the 4.2 patrol = good, 3.0L patrol = crap...
Hence big arse Toyota V8 = power output of a Hamster on a treadmill :angel:

[PAT303]

My experience with Toyota's is the same as Tombie,it's not until you drive them on the dirt and make them work that you really see what breaks on them,too many are nothing but tow tugs that stay under 80 and never go off the tar and up here and in the Goldfields many companies were replacing them long before the 5 star crash rating came into affect,a good friend of mine is the manager for a large vehicle rental company up here,parts supply is a non event,the worst vehicle becoming a donor vehicle for the others,they are now not buying them and have switched to Rangers and many Great Walls are around and the Amorak is the most popular fleet ute ATM.Toyota are killing off the cruiser,Land Rover are re-inventing the Defender,enough said. Pat