FIP ING HELL!! - Tdi Fuel Injector Pump Leak

[manic]

Sorry to shout but I've almost had it with my rover! Third time I have stripped the front cover and set the timing belt. I just cant win.

This last attempt took off the timing case, which meant the FIP had to come off. I've put it all back together, timed it up and she started sweet, and sounded great.. yippee I thought, finally I can get the show on the road.

BUT NOOOOO.. It seems I must continue to endure land rover induced pain and suffering! I checked the engine bay for leaks and all looked dry and happy until I noticed the FIP leaking in rapid drops and this is at idle!

It appears to be dropping off the throttle arm. A search on google suggests the throttle shaft seal may have decided to give me a slap.
Here is a pic of where the leak is coming from:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/986.jpg


Now I'm almost sure it was not leaking like this before, but perhaps it was only under load and now its just crapped it completely. Could I have done something when I removed it? Would many test starts with air to purge cause this? The only other thing I've done is remove the top cap and rotate the diaphragm to MINIMUM fueling. I thought it best to start cautiously on my new CH.

I'm gutted, last Christmas I was supposed to do a 4x4 adventure tour with friends after just having imported it from UK (a lot of work to get it here!), but all hope of that vanished soon after it arrived in Australia - the gasket went taking the CH with it!

A whole year later and there I was thinking I had finally gotten round to fixing the motor to a reliable standard. We had planned to take a trip up to Kangaroo Island this holiday season as a first test run but now I fear for that. Not being to drive it about Auz this summer would be embarrassing... 12 months of friends and family asking 'have you got the landy running yet'... errr nooooo not yet.

I know FIP work is best left to the experts and therefore expensive... My finances are as good as booked out till the new year.

Amongst episodes of land rover despair there has been hope, and often it has been provided by the members of this great forum. So thank you for all the help over the past year. I wish I could post some photos of the LR out in the wilderness instead of just busted bits in my garage! I've now reached a point where I just want to seal up the garage and forget the blasted thing.

If anyone can offer me a way to sort out the FIP that wont cost me the earth I would love to hear it. Or even some words of encouragement may help. What also pains me is I will have to take the bloody timing belt off again to remove the pump! ARGGHH..

Right now I'm not sure that I own a land rover!

[Blknight.aus]

tis easy...

measure the max fuel screw setting
remove the fuel screw
remove the top
replace the seal
put the top back
replace the fuel screw
set at the original measurement

Use a vernier caliper to measure the screw... fractions of turns count.

[manic]

tis easy...

measure the max fuel screw setting
remove the fuel screw
remove the top
replace the seal
put the top back
replace the fuel screw
set at the original measurement

Use a vernier caliper to measure the screw... fractions of turns count.

Its always easy for you Blknight! :)
I'm still unsure.

I found this which gives a better description of the process.
How to replace the throttle spindle seal on a Tdi Injection pump - International Forum - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=15329&pid=157623&st=0&)

I have read it three times and I still cant get myself to feel confident enough to do it. I'm pretty good at stuffing things up. Perhaps I'll start by finding a supplier for the required parts.

Good that both you and those in the linked thread seem to think its easy though. Some hope that I may be able to fix myself... I must be low on confidence, because all I can think about is the consequence of stuffing it up!

[manic]

The part numbers listed are for 300tdi
spindle bush 1460324333
Oring 1460210008
cover gasket 1461015302

Anyone know the 200tdi (discovery) part numbers or a resource for looking them up?

[Blknight.aus]

I make it sound easy because that part of the pump is easy, theres nothing uber technical in there to be worried about.

the difficult bit is all the stuff down in the main pumping body and thats only hard because if you want to do an in situ you have to do it with the pump horizontal.

depending on when you want to do it you're welcome to my phone number and I'll talk you through it.

hell the donk Im ripping apart has an IP on it I was going to overhaul as a spare for SWMBO's vehicle, if you want to pay the postage once I have it off I'll send it down for you to have a practice on.

PM me for details if you're interested.

[manic]

I got some replies from a couple of reputable diesel shops.

1st
claims described throttle shaft leak fix will not last. Over 180,000KM or 8 years before these units start to throw out leaks. More will follow. $700 to repair the shaft leak and calibrate the pump. That's pump landed on counter!

2nd
Could range between $250 and $600+GST. Claims it is very unusual for the pump to be leaking from the throttle shaft due to a seal failure. The main reason for a leak is because of wear on the throttle shaft and governor cover of the pump.

Interesting.. Does that sound right?


I cant do $600 now so I have to try and take a look at it myself. I'll post pictures on here for help with diagnosis. I'll be happy if it only clears the leak long enough to get some holiday motoring done!

[manic]

My Pump# 0460 414 069
Spindle Bush $16.90+gst
Spindle O-Ring $1.60+gst
Throttle Cover Gasket $3.50+gst

They need to be ordered in so I wont be able to pick them up until Monday. I'll be taking the top cover off this weekend to have a look at the throttle pin.


Note to self:
I'll clean the pump and work area before I start, go slow with lots of photos and hopefully get the throttle pin out without cocking it up. Once out I'll wrap the pump in cling film, and take a breather (aka beer!).

The story so far in emoticons: :o:mad::confused::eek::no2::bangin::) [to be continued...]

[Blknight.aus]

I'll back the second opinion but remember just because the shaft doenst often leak doesnt mean it cant. The mob that I PM'd you the number for have the kit on shelf

the pump in the tdi200 I have appears original and is over 400K Km (odo doesnt work) and still has the paint marks on the linkages.

the complete pump reseal kit is about $70 (about 80% of this can be DIY on the engine)
the common overhaul kit is something like $140 (80% of this can be DIY on engine)
and the rebuild kit is about $250 (youve got to pull it)

[manic]

OK I have started.

Everything clean as can be, I've removed the banjos, the throttle arm ajd loosened the four bolts holding the top cover down.

Looking at the max power screw it appears to have some kind of anti-tamper thing on it.

How do I remove it?


hmm not so clean back here.. :blush:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/325.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/326.jpg

[manic]

broke off the plastic collar with a screwdriver. I let the metal sleeve stay, no problems screwing it out.

The problem I did have was getting the top off, it was stuck on the bottom rear bolt mounting point, the one you cant see! After double checking that I had removed all the fixing points I tried as I could to gently move the top off whilst pushing the throttle spindle through

The bottom right had a dowel which was stuck and even with careful pulling when it let go the top jolted up and off and took the spindle out with it. Bloody dowel!

So I've probably shafted it now right?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/317.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/318.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/319.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/320.jpg

I can't see anything broken, so I'll so I'll do myself a favor and pretend all is just fine whilst I take my job done beer break! :beer:

[Blknight.aus]

nahh all good, the res and focus of the pics isnt helping but it does look like the receiver plate on the flyweight balancer is bent.


heres how it all hooks up...
53639

usually when I've pulled them apart the shaft has fallen out of the cover allowing dis assembly.

on the re-assembly I load the thing up with a healthy dose of Vaseline to hold it all in place and to keep the shaft upright enough to get it started in the sleeve.

Dont forget to wipe down the new top cover seal with a little clean diesel prior to installing it and to dry off and clean the sealing surface.

[manic]

Thanks Dave for the tech support :)

I didn't notice anything bent, looks OK to me so hopefully it will go back on OK. I'll try and take a better round of pictures when I get back to it with the replacement seals.

Your picture is low rez so I cant quite make out the attachment but I'll see what I can figure out when the time comes.

I'm going to take the cover and spindle to the diesel shop when I pick up the seals, the spindle does not look worn to me but I'll get a second opinion. Also with a bit of luck they may be able to replace the bush for me there and then.

Matt

[camel_landy]

Just as a little side here...

Did the car get run on Bio or veg oil when in the UK?? FWIW - I've seen that as the cause of leaks in injector pumps.

Good luck.

M

[manic]

Just as a little side here...

Did the car get run on Bio or veg oil when in the UK?? FWIW - I've seen that as the cause of leaks in injector pumps.

Good luck.

M

I have not experimented with bio. But quite possibly the previous owner may have. The brown rusty colour of the pumps internals shown in the pictures suggests that water has passed through it, so it has had some bad fuel, maybe it was cause by poorly filtered bio. It rubs off pretty much, like a thin film, so not major - i hope.

I looked today for a sedimentor on the fuel pick up but nothing found. So some kind of water separator is now the list of things to do.

Also whilst looking in vain for the sedimentor, I found the bottom of my fuel tank weeping. So I have a leaky tank to deal with too!:wallbash::toilet:

[manic]

progress is being made after some time off.

I got the seals and bush from MTQ in Dandenong. They were very helpful. I now have the top of the pump back on with the spindle poking through but stopped there because I don't have access to my reference photos with measurements etc.

One tip for anyone looking to do this. Put the new seal on the spindle, wet it with some diesel and push it through the bush in the top cover once or twice before you try to do it with the spindle arm connected to the pump. It will make it easier to push through when you do it in situ and you will know how much force to give it.

Also when the top threaded section of the spindle pokes out clear of the bush you can put a nut on it and gently pull it the rest of the way with some pliers whilst pushing the top down onto the pump.

I'm not sure how far the spindle is supposed to protrude out of the top cover, I stopped when the cover settled onto the pump. Should I pull it up until it locks, cant go any further?

Also is there a torque setting for the top cover bolts?

MTQ fitted the bush for me, and used some kind of loctite/sealant around the top outer diameter of the bush. So that was one thing I didn't have to worry about stuffing up :)

[manic]

I think I finished the FIP this morning. Got my reference photos off my GF's phone so I could set all the screws and throttle back to position.

Started her up, it idled and I could apply throttle as normal. I couldn't run the engine for long because no coolant, but couldnt find any fuel leaks :). Spindle was leaking immediately on start up before, so its looking good.

Unfortunately I didnt have a camera to take pics but there were no surprises given the info in this thread and the linked lr4x4 thread.

The spindle needed to come all the way through the top cover til it couldn't go no more. I did the top cover bolts up as tight as is comfortable using a short allen key.

One thing that may help others is a method for getting the throttle spring back into position:

- After setting all the screws back to position place the spring along with the plastic spacers so that the bottom hook of the spring is in position (use a reference photo).

- Pull the top hook back and down slightly so that it catches on the pump body, this will hold the spring in place so you can but the throttle arm on.

- Before you put the arm on tie a bit of string onto the top hook of the spring.

- Line the arm up onto the spindle so it is in the correct position (from reference photo / marks)

- Put the nut on to hold the arm on the spindle, then pull on the string to bring the top hook of the spring all the way round and onto the throttle latch point. Makes it real easy.

Moving on with a :)

[Blknight.aus]

so now summate for us...

you were worried because?

[manic]

so now summate for us...

you were worried because?

yes OK you were right - it wasn't so hard, and yes the initial post now seems a tad melodramatic... for 12 months now I've had the car in an unusable state - so I simply lost my patience and doomed it all to hell... poor form i know! Thanks for the push.

With renewed stoic resolve and a splash of optimism I will aim to have the front cover and ancillaries back on, add some coolant and go for a drive this weekend! :cool:

[damienb]

Anyone got a torque wrench setting for the top bolts?

[MacFamily]

Well I would like to thank manic/Blknight for there informative information and links in this thread. I had just done this myself just this weekend and with out the information on this thread would have been a otherwise difficult job and also having the part numbers made it even easier.

I was very nervous when putting it all back together, but would like to inform that the old girl fired up without hitch and so far is not leaking diesel. This seal was just replaced 70k ago when I had the pump overhauled and I was very disappointed when it started leaking 2 weeks ago. When I was told it could cost up to $600 and there was a 3 week wait to get the car into the mechanic, well that's when I started researching on the old AULRO and found this thread. So instead of being a few hundred, it cost me $30 bucks in parts $20 bucks to the local mechanic to replace the bush for me as I don't have a workshop press and about 5hrs of my time.

[damienb]

Fantastic - got it all back together and no leaks. Two days later it's leaking from the lower half - looks like the main head oring :( Don't know what I'll do now :(:(

[manic]

Good to hear others are enjoying some success with the help of this thread ....

damienb: Is the main head the top piece you removed to sort out the spindle leak... is it leaking at a gasket you replaced? I replaced the gasket between the base of the pump and the top cover with a new one, thoroughly cleaning the mating surfaces and doing up the top bolts evenly.

[damienb]

No everything in the top half is now good.

It's now leaking from the big o-ring at the injector head.

I started with a rocker cover leak. I fixed that and it started leaking from the oil pipe o-ring. Fixed that and the oil filter head gasket started leaking. Fixed that and the IP top cover gasket started leaking. Fixed that and now the big o-ring is leaking. Conspiracy right? What else?

[manic]

Ah ok, I'm with you. The head is the bit where the injector lines attach...

That is a pain, although perhaps not so bad after you have done it?
Found this: TDI Pump Head Seal Replacement Procedure (http://www.dieselgeek.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1873)
For kit: http://www.dieselgeek.com/Viton_Pump_Head_O_Ring_Seal_Kit_p/pmp-viton.htm

[damienb]

Got this o-ring in green as part of the Bosch kit. Should be OK right?
Damien