Sloppy steering fixed.

[PeterH]

My steering was feeling pretty sloppy and my LHS front tyre was showing signs of uneven ware, so while my 2001 HSE was in at the mechanics getting other things done, I thought I'd let them deal with that as well.
They replaced the top ball joints on both sides, as well as all the tie rod ends, including new shafts and a wheel alignment.
Without exaggerating, it really feels like a new car to drive now, I can't believe the difference. It really is a pleasure to drive again!
I guess these things wear slowly over time, so you don't really notice until it gets bad enough.
So if your steering is feeling a bit so-so, might be time to check out what is going on under there.
Cheers, Pete.

[poleonpom]

nice one. mine's feeling pretty woolly too, how many km's do you have on yours?

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[UK_P38]

I found a small tightening, 1/8th turn, on the bearing preload screw on the steering box (hex head with a nut surround on top of the box) made a huge difference also...

[PeterH]

Poleopom, mine is heading towards the 200k mark, so thought best to do it properly.
I'll be needing a new set of tyres soonish, so probably a good move to have the front end sorted before new tyres go on.
The lower ball joints were fine on mine, but the upper ones were on the way out.
Cheers, Pete.

[jezza89]

Having a similar problem with my 2001 HSE, steering is very sloppy and not very precise. My mechanic pointed out that some steering links were worn but I have not got around to replacing.

I've replaced most of the suspension components on my Subaru, so I am hoping the Land rover stuff is similar.

[poleonpom]

Hey Pete,

Thanks for letting me know, mine's coming up to 180k so it's in the same ballpark - going to have a good look around.

BTW, maybe a good idea to change your brake lines if you haven't already done so - mine split recently and the car has had a relatively easy life

[PeterH]

I'll check the brake lines out, they would be the original ones on mine still.
I guess 11 years is a pretty good innings for parts like that, I was thinking of giving the brakes a bleed anyway, might be a good time to replace the lines.
Cheers, Pete.

[PeterH]

Jezza89, I don't think it would be too hard to replace those bits, as long as you have a ball joint popper, the rest should be straight forward.
The tie rod ends were pretty seized on to the shafts on mine, so they opted to get two new shafts, they come as a set including tie rod ends.
At least there is room to move under a P38, probably much tighter space under a Subaru.
I can't believe the difference to how it was, it really feels like a new car to drive now.
The wheel alignment was out as well on mine, I had got into the habit of compensating for it pulling to the left and being loose, I have to readjust my steering habits now!

[mtb_gary]

I've just checked under the car last night after doing a clean from the weekend before and noticed some of the rubber boots on the ball joints and steering are becoming perished, and in a couple of cases actually split....not good :o.
Looking around the usual on line sites for replacement parts there are a couple of brands that are available. Which one is the best? Both seem to claim they are superior?
Britpart or Lemforder
Gary

[lardy]

Lemforder are the way forward, britpart are good enough in many cases, but seem to allow plenty of variables in their production execution

[wayneg]

I found a small tightening, 1/8th turn, on the bearing preload screw on the steering box (hex head with a nut surround on top of the box) made a huge difference also...


Agree, this is an easy job which can have good results

[DT-P38]

Lemforder

[mtb_gary]

All done. Lemforder ball joints (upper and lower), Lemforder track rod assembly and Lemforder Drag link assembly have all been ordered, now just waiting on delivery.

Once they are all fitted I'll let you know how the steering changes ;)

Gary

[mtb_gary]

All parts have arrived from Paddock Spares, now for the fun part....getting it all fitted. This Saturday looks like it's going to be spent under the car :o

[PeterH]

Good luck with it! Remember, when all else fails, there is beer.

[Hoges]

All parts have arrived from Paddock Spares, now for the fun part....getting it all fitted. This Saturday looks like it's going to be spent under the car :o

you'll need a decent set of ball joint press adaptors. see also Ball joint Removal/replacement:Photos (http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/8253-ball-joint-removal-replacement-photos.html)

It is critical that you ensure that the mid point of the swivel hub remains the same when you put the new ball joints in else it is likely that you'll have leaking oil seals... Best way to do this is to measure the height of the taper collet before and after and make sure it is the same before you tighten the ball joint into place. Also, pack the lip of the axle seal with Retinax grease before you poke the axle through being VERY careful not to 'nick' the seal.

good luck!!

[mtb_gary]

I had read that link prior to contemplating the new joints, fortunately the collet should not need to come out? I thought I had a press sorted from a mate of mine but his version of a press and mine are a bit different. I think his would work fine on a small car but no adapters over 1 1/4" id. I need 2" and 1 3/4". I may need to purchase my own kit if I can't source some appropriate tubing.

Stay tuned, Gary

[mtb_gary]

I've been doing some further research today. The cheapest I can find in Australia is just over $500 ??? So flea bay got a hammering searching overseas. I now have one on order for $160 delivered to home from USA. I really have to wonder who makes all the profits, if the kit had been around $200 I would have gladly supported the local dealer.

I guess I know what I'm getting for Xmas. ;D

Maybe I can rent it out to others wanting to do ball joints?

Gary


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[DT-P38]

Love the p38 line drawing!

Great job!

[PaulP38a]

Maybe I can rent it out to others wanting to do ball joints?


Sure, I'd rent it off you Gary.

The boots on my ball joints look to be perishing although steering is fine. I reckon I should do them but don't have the equipment.
A trip to the local independent LR workshop is going to hurt the wallet... I am confident they will do a decent job, not so sure of my own ability ;)

[mtb_gary]

If everything goes to plan, this Saturday should see the new ball joints, drag link and tie rods installed.
I'll let you know the outcome (hopefully all positive) but then again this is a 16 yo, as just like 16 yo kids they never behave as you want them to! Thankfully ours are all grown up.
Gary

[mtb_gary]

Delayed again. The ball joint press according to USPS tracking is still in Miami, Florida :mad: and now expected to arrive on 27 Dec. It was supposed to have been in Perth last week, then tomorrow. I was hoping to have it all done and finished by Xmas. I guess that means more mork around the garden instead :o.

[mtb_gary]

The ball joint press finally arrived, and so did a heat wave!!!:cool: Once things cool down below 30 I'll be getting underway. If only we had A/C in the garage:D. If the forecast is correct I should be able to start on Wednesday, or if I'm up to it maybe even New Years Day :spudnikparty:. What better way to start off the New Year than working on the Rangie??????

I'll post pictures and a report once I'm finished.

Gary

[mtb_gary]

Well the day finally arrived. Time to get serious!! This morning was a bit cooler than it has been, only in the low 30's, so time to start pulling apart the car to make ready for the shiny new components. One of the first steps is to remove the screw that holds the disc in place both sides had been molested by a previous owner that the only option left was to drill them out :mad:. Next problem the top ball joint. The ball joint shaft ended up being forced up out of the rest of the casing, at least now I could move the swivel hub out of the way far enough to get the ball joint press into position to remove the upper ball joint, much swearing and sweating and the ball joint was finally removed. Next the lower ball joint. I thought the upper one was hard going, that wasn't even a warm up. After 2 hours of belting with a hammer and using the press it still sits in there defiant, to give an idea of the amount of torque being used in the press, I was using a long handled torque wrench that measures up to 150 lbf.ft. The 150 would be surpassed easily, I estimate with approx 250-300 lbf.ft. I did end up taking the angle grinder out and cutting the shaft so that i could remove the swivel hub out of the way completely. The bottom part of the shaft eventually came away from the swivel hub but the top part of the ball joint is still in place.I need a slightly smaller removal tube for the press and then hopefully it will come out. The same goes on the opposite side. But for now it's time to sit back and have a beer...I'm knackered after that session!
Maybe tomorrow after work if I can get hold of the parts I'll try again.
Gary

[mtb_gary]

SUCCESS!!!!
A few bruises, scratches to me but the job is now complete. And what a massive difference. No more slop in the stering and very, very precise as soon as the steering wheel is moved. All up it took around 12 hours, 10 of which were removing the old parts as well as some cleaning. Reassembling was straight forward and IMO could be done by the majority of the AULRO members with a half decent tool kit and of course the ball joint press.
Pics to follow.
Gary

[Hoges]

Well done indeed! FWIW...Keep an eye on the axle seals to ensure that the swivel hub alignment is still all OK.

[wayneg]

Well done indeed! FWIW...Keep an eye on the axle seals to ensure that the swivel hub alignment is still all OK.


X1 Keep a keen eye on the axle seals and if you did not load up the outside edge of the seals with grease think about getting some lube in between the seal and the axle ring. Both Hoges and I have suffered with ripped oil seals

[PeterH]

Well done Gary, nice work! I'll be interested to see the pics, specially how the press worked. How good does it feel to drive now, mine feels like a new car!

[mtb_gary]

When I changed from standard springs to Arnott gen3's along with the off road boss shocks it was a remarkable change, but doing the ball joints, track rod and drag link is sensational. Yes, it feels like a new car :D
I should be able to post the pics tomorrow sometime
Gary

[mtb_gary]

Well done indeed! FWIW...Keep an eye on the axle seals to ensure that the swivel hub alignment is still all OK.

OK now I'm a bit concerned that I don't have enough grease on the seal. It won't take long to rectify the problem, but I will remove the parts and ensure they are well greased up!

Attached is a pdf with a description of the ball joint replacement project

Gary

[PaulP38a]

Thanks Gary, well done.
This has pretty much convinced me to take mine to a LR specialist instead of having a go myself.
Cheers, Paul.

[mtb_gary]

Thanks Gary, well done.
This has pretty much convinced me to take mine to a LR specialist instead of having a go myself.
Cheers, Paul.
Where's your sense of adventure? :D
Gary

[PaulP38a]

Where's your sense of adventure? :D
Gary

All I need are more tools, a bigger garage (with AirCon) ... and time! ;)

[ytt105]

I'd like to say I'll come over and help Paul, but it scared the hell out of me as well!!

Track rods OK but not the ball joints.

[mtb_gary]

X1 Keep a keen eye on the axle seals and if you did not load up the outside edge of the seals with grease think about getting some lube in between the seal and the axle ring. Both Hoges and I have suffered with ripped oil seals

It's surprising how easy the removal of the CV joint and axle was this time :D, started at 5:30pm and finished and cleaned up by 7:15pm. The axle seals are now all greased up and I had another good look at the alignment of the shaft through the seal and they both look like they go straight through the middle. Thanks to Hoges and Wayneg for the heads up on the greasing of the axle seals.
Gary

[wayneg]

It's surprising how easy the removal of the CV joint and axle was this time :D, started at 5:30pm and finished and cleaned up by 7:15pm. The axle seals are now all greased up and I had another good look at the alignment of the shaft through the seal and they both look like they go straight through the middle. Thanks to Hoges and Wayneg for the heads up on the greasing of the axle seals.
Gary

Well worth doing for peace of mind at least...

Did you see this old thread...http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/125024-axle-oil-seal-total-failure.html


And this for anyone looking to change a CV joint...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/122386-renew-cv-joint.html#post1423244

[mtb_gary]

I've just had aloof at the threads. Thankful I didn't have to do the CV joint :o
Gary

[davidsonsm]

I've just sought a quote from paddock for the Lemforder drag and track links (complete) and the 4x ball joints. All up GBP150ish, but plus GBP79 P&P. That's taking the cost of parts to $430ish. I'll try locally, to see if more competive pricing can be had. Clearly the ROE isn't helping. The parts themselves in GBP, are the cheapest I've seen.

[davidsonsm]

Versus around $540 here in australia. Incredible.

[TheTree]

Hi

Very similar to lrdirect, i got the drag link, track rod, four foamcell shocks and the tailgate struts in one order to try to reduce the shipping cost

About £300 all up including £99 shipping

Steve

[Keithy P38]

I recently got a complete Lemforder track rod and drag link plus various other bits for less than $450au (that includes freight). That was through island 4x4.

[bruce p38]

This thread prompts me to address my steering as it now wanders on the hollows created by heavy trucks ect mainly on highways. I thought maybe a castor adjustment but really have no idea. POE - Ill try the 1/8 of a turn on the steering box first and see what happens

Thats great Thanks

Bruce

[Hoges]

Regretfully there is no easy castor adjustment on the P38. One of the poly urethane bush suppliers claims to counteract the tendency of the steering to wander to the left due to road camber by supplying a radius arm bushing with an offset bolt hole... This apparently changes the LHS castor setting. I don't know how successful this is.
cheers

[TheTree]

Hi

Mine has no tendency to wander at all.

I just had a wheel alignment doen and got the full printout, the guy said it was the best numbers he had seen one of these for quite a while.

I found an interesting piece of info though

"Most road vehicles have what is called cross-caster. Cross castered vehicles have slightly different caster and camber, which cause it to drift slightly to the right while rolling. This is a safety feature so that un-manned vehicles or drivers who lose steering control will drift toward the side of the road instead of into oncoming traffic."

This is in the US of course, but perhaps explains the drift to the left some people seem to get.

Steve

[benji]

I don't see how the bushes can work. The castor of a single swivel can't be changed, in the classics you can.

If it adds more castor to the front axle then what happens at hwy height?

As they have the same castor as the classic I'm assuming it's the lack of swivel preload which is why they veer to the castor of the road a bit.
One thing I've noticed is the lsd lessens this veer due to the preload in the diff.

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