Radiators, intercoolers and exhaust wrapping

[The Cone of Silence]

Three topics in this thread - mildly related and may be useful for other Puma owners having the same issues:

Radiator
The last two trips I've hardly got any mud even close to the radiator and I hose it out regularly so I was surprised that I went into limp mode twice on the way back from Barrington Tops recently, despite the extra weight of the Hannibal RTT, awning and rack. 100kph, very slight incline on the F3!

Do I need to take it out to clean it properly? Is removing it a simple job?

Intercooler
I've ordered my new performance intercooler from Allisport (UK) and some silicone hoses too, which should be a good weekend install project when it arrives.

Will this change in any way, the overheating issue that I'm having or will it simply increase performance because it's so much bigger?

Exhaust wrap
I have some exhaust wrap at home and was thinking of putting it on the Defender.
Will it affect engine temperature as a result of the insulation effect and back pressure at all?

Would love to hear your thoughts...as always! As you can see I'm still not that mechanically minded....but I'm getting there, little by little, with some help from you guys!

Bobby

[rick130]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/141505-hot-touch-gear-box-area-battery-compartment-area.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/124365-exhaust-wrap-110-2001-td5.html

[Tombie]

Three topics in this thread - mildly related and may be useful for other Puma owners having the same issues:

Radiator
The last two trips I've hardly got any mud even close to the radiator and I hose it out regularly so I was surprised that I went into limp mode twice on the way back from Barrington Tops recently, despite the extra weight of the Hannibal RTT, awning and rack. 100kph, very slight incline on the F3!

Do I need to take it out to clean it properly? Is removing it a simple job?

Intercooler
I've ordered my new performance intercooler from Allisport (UK) and some silicone hoses too, which should be a good weekend install project when it arrives.

Will this change in any way, the overheating issue that I'm having or will it simply increase performance because it's so much bigger?

Exhaust wrap
I have some exhaust wrap at home and was thinking of putting it on the Defender.
Will it affect engine temperature as a result of the insulation effect and back pressure at all?

Would love to hear your thoughts...as always! As you can see I'm still not that mechanically minded....but I'm getting there, little by little, with some help from you guys!

Bobby

Something is seriously wrong... A TDCi shouldn't be having cooling problems yet... They arent old enough.

How many k's and how old is yours?

If under warranty - dealer, if not, full rad flush, check pump, thermostat etc..

Sounds very much like a sticking thermostat.

[Drover]

Hey Bobby,

I agree with Tombie, it should not be over heating, even with with the extra's you have on it. I have mine loaded up and never had a problem with over heating, even in the Cape with daily temp in the Mid 30's.

The intercooler will not assist in engine cooling. It may even make it worse ! as it is twice as big and will block out more radiator than the stock intercooler.

Exhaust wrap will help with engine temps. It is my understanding that the heat from the exhaust is push down and kept in the pipe rather than building up in the exhaust manifold and turbo. The engine bay will also be cooler.

Exhaust wrap will help with in cabin temps as well.

Cheers
Grant

[Iain_B]

HI Bobby - mine has the same issue with it running hot. Dealer could not replicate the conditions or the overheating so they say there is no problem. I fitted a bigger intercooler as well, but have not had the opportunity to test if it makes a difference

Do you have a Scangauge - it is interesting to watch how the temp climbs and drops sometimes without any change in speed or grade.

I'm thinking of getting a new thermostat to start off with, just need to find it :) - anyone changed one before?



Three topics in this thread - mildly related and may be useful for other Puma owners having the same issues:

Radiator
The last two trips I've hardly got any mud even close to the radiator and I hose it out regularly so I was surprised that I went into limp mode twice on the way back from Barrington Tops recently, despite the extra weight of the Hannibal RTT, awning and rack. 100kph, very slight incline on the F3!

Do I need to take it out to clean it properly? Is removing it a simple job?

Intercooler
I've ordered my new performance intercooler from Allisport (UK) and some silicone hoses too, which should be a good weekend install project when it arrives.

Will this change in any way, the overheating issue that I'm having or will it simply increase performance because it's so much bigger?

Exhaust wrap
I have some exhaust wrap at home and was thinking of putting it on the Defender.
Will it affect engine temperature as a result of the insulation effect and back pressure at all?

Would love to hear your thoughts...as always! As you can see I'm still not that mechanically minded....but I'm getting there, little by little, with some help from you guys!

Bobby

[Allan]

Hey Bobby,

I agree with Tombie, it should not be over heating, even with with the extra's you have on it. I have mine loaded up and never had a problem with over heating, even in the Cape with daily temp in the Mid 30's.

The intercooler will not assist in engine cooling. It may even make it worse ! as it is twice as big and will block out more radiator than the stock intercooler.

Exhaust wrap will help with engine temps. It is my understanding that the heat from the exhaust is push down and kept in the pipe rather than building up in the exhaust manifold and turbo. The engine bay will also be cooler.

Exhaust wrap will help with in cabin temps as well.

Cheers
Grant

I also agree, I had ours towing with all the gear, roof rack loaded in 38c temps in the Kimbeleys with no problems at all. I'd have it checked for sure. The only time my Puma went into limp mode was a fuel pressure fault and this was a known problem and fixed under warrenty.

Allan

[The Cone of Silence]

Good stuff, thanks guys.

I've done 105,000kms (2008 110 Wagon) and did fill up the cooler and radiator with mud on one trip - that was the first time it happened, coming back from there. I gave it a good rinse out with the hose but suspect I'm struggling to get all the mud out.

Any climbing seems to do it. I have no scanguage but I'm due for a remap soon....early 2013 I think!

I feel the lack of throttle and immediately check the needle and watch it lift up above halfway and shoot rapidly north.....then I pull over and it goes down to halfway and I'm back on throttle. Gets worrying when there's no hard shoulder...

If it's a thermostat issue, is fitting a new one a simple change?

Bobby

[Allan]

Good stuff, thanks guys.

I've done 105,000kms (2008 110 Wagon) and did fill up the cooler and radiator with mud on one trip - that was the first time it happened, coming back from there. I gave it a good rinse out with the hose but suspect I'm struggling to get all the mud out.

Any climbing seems to do it. I have no scanguage but I'm due for a remap soon....early 2013 I think!

I feel the lack of throttle and immediately check the needle and watch it lift up above halfway and shoot rapidly north.....then I pull over and it goes down to halfway and I'm back on throttle. Gets worrying when there's no hard shoulder...

If it's a thermostat issue, is fitting a new one a simple change?

Bobby

I had the same symptoms on my old D1, anytime on the soft stuff up would go the temp. The guy who built the new radiator for it said they don't need much in them to push them over.

Allan

[DeanoH]

................. The last two trips I've hardly got any mud even close to the radiator and I hose it out regularly .........................

Have you been careful not to bend the radiator fins over when hosing out ? This can be a cause of reduced airflow and overheating.

Deano :)

[isuzutoo-eh]

Put the garden sprinkler in the engine bay aimed at the radiator for an hour or so, that'll shift the mud. It bakes on pretty hard.

[The Cone of Silence]

I've tried to be very careful not to bend the fins so I just use a garden hose on fairly low pressure. Never the Guerni.

Maybe I just need to do it for a lot longer. I'll keep monitoring but I suspect that when I take the radiator out too, that cleaning it will be far easier and even more mud will come out.

I'm still not convinced it's just mud. How can I be sure it's not a thermostat issue?

[jddisco200tdi]

I wouldn't pull the radiator out just yet.
When you are changing the intercooler, allow some time to clean the rad fully, as you will then have good access with it still in the car.

Regards

John D - Defender 110 2.4

[MD5]

...The only time my Puma went into limp mode was a fuel pressure fault and this was a known problem and fixed under warrenty.Allan

Sorry for the OT. Allan, could you better describe the fuel pressure problem, even in PM if you prefer, thanks.

[Allan]

P.M. sent

Allan

[JaYwALk]

Howdy - thought I'd jump onto this one as I seem to be having a similar problem. A little while ago after very muddy trip out with the boys I experienced loss of power and then overheating. After returning home I gave everything a good clean but failed to get a decent chunk of mud on the back of the radiator which Land Rover Geelong subsequently found for me and cleaned out. Today however I got the same symptoms; air-con started blowing hot air, loss of power, and then temp gauge heading north. After pulling off the side of the road for a bit I resumed my journey (at 90kmh) and managed to get home. No engine warning lights or anything. Any thoughts on what may be the cause if the radiator has already been cleaned out?

By the way it's a 2009 DCPU Puma with about 65,000kms on the clock.

Cheers - Jono

[The Cone of Silence]

G'day Jono,

If memory serves me correctly, my air con was still working - but I shut it off as soon as the engine went into limp mode (when the temp needle ascended)....so we may have different problems.

I'm going to get in and give mine a serious clean out when I have the intercooler out and will see if that helps. I guess I won't know until then.

I shall start using the seed net and wading cover too - I need to be far more disciplined with that.

Bobby

[Iain_B]

Mine had about 55,000km on it when the symptoms started - I'm still wondering if it is a thermostat problem as my radiator was clean on the outside. Aircon worked great ( 48 degrees outside) - in fact the temp rise was more with the a/c off, the fan must have added more air to the cooling than the hot air given off.

At the 50,000km service, they changed all the fluids including the coolant, never had a problem before that.

[JaYwALk]

Hmmmm..... on both occasions where it was particularly bad it was close to 40deg outside and I had a full tank of fuel. Not sure if the full tank had anything to do with it - probably more the heat I'm thinking as I did the same journey today (high 20's) and no problem. Oh well - its in for a service soon so hopefully they can sort it out once and for all!

Cheers - Jono

[Brid]

Has anybody had the insulation wrap on their engine pipe for a few years now?

I was speaking to an exhaust shop owner today, and he warned about wrapping mild steel exhaust pipe, saying it can fatigue and fail, in as quickly as 1 year!! I bought the wrap to do mine, but not sure now. He said ceramic coating is a better option.

I'd like to hear anyone 's comments here please?

[rick130]

Has anybody had the insulation wrap on their engine pipe for a few years now?

I was speaking to an exhaust shop owner today, and he warned about wrapping mild steel exhaust pipe, saying it can fatigue and fail, in as quickly as 1 year!! I bought the wrap to do mine, but not sure now. He said ceramic coating is a better option.

I'd like to hear anyone 's comments here please?

Stainless will fatigue crack, I seriously doubt mild steel will.
I haven't had a problem in five years/well over 100,000km and Inc has had his exhaust wrapped a lot longer. ;)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/445170-post12.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/583935-post17.html

[Allan]

Has anybody had the insulation wrap on their engine pipe for a few years now?

I was speaking to an exhaust shop owner today, and he warned about wrapping mild steel exhaust pipe, saying it can fatigue and fail, in as quickly as 1 year!! I bought the wrap to do mine, but not sure now. He said ceramic coating is a better option.

I'd like to hear anyone 's comments here please?

I have my doubts regarding that. A guy I know has a very modified Subaru STI with equal length front pipes and they are wrapped by the manifacturer. I was under the impression it's stainless that has the problem when wrapped.

Allan

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Bobby,

As others have said it shouldnt be overheating.

I'd start by removing the cowling and fan and get the garden sprinkler to the back of the rad for a few hours, my money would be on it still being partially blocked with mud.

If you can get the air con rad and intercollegiate out of the way all at the same time you should be able to see daylight right through it, everywhere!


I doubt the inter cooler will make any difference to cooling, or performance until you get a remap.


I've never played with exhaust wrap, but my first consideration would be to long term damage of the CAT and increased heat dissipation around the gearbox & transfer box (once the wrapping stops) just where you don't need extra heat! At least leaving the manifold & down pipe un-wrapped allows for heat dissipation via a greater air mass under the bonnet where its largely irrelevant.

Jon

Sent using Forum Runner

[TeamFA]

In an effort to reduce cabin heat, especially the front passenger seat and footwell, I wrapped the exhaust last weekend. We don't use the air con at all, so anything we can do to cool inside the car is worth a try.

I wrapped the two sections of exhaust, the first piece that bolts to the turbo that goes to the join under the front passenger seat, and the second piece that goes from there to just in front of the rear axle.

First drives on Sunday and Monday afternoon indicated that the passenger seat and footwell were noticeably cooler, and those days were reasonably warm. Proper long drive test will be at Christmas/New Year, heading down to Inverell/Bundarra.

[rick130]

[snip]

I've never played with exhaust wrap, but my first consideration would be to long term damage of the CAT and increased heat dissipation around the gearbox & transfer box (once the wrapping stops) just where you don't need extra heat! At least leaving the manifold & down pipe un-wrapped allows for heat dissipation via a greater air mass under the bonnet where its largely irrelevant.

Jon

Sent using Forum Runner

Mines wrapped to the back of the t/case, so that's a non issue ;)

[Landie333]

I've never played with exhaust wrap, but my first consideration would be to long term damage of the CAT and increased heat dissipation around the gearbox & transfer box (once the wrapping stops) just where you don't need extra heat!

It's not going to do any damage to the cat. The amount of heat that will dissipate out of the pipe won't be much. Even if it was doing damage, it wouldn't be anywhere near as much compared to the unburnt fuel being fed into the cat. Same goes really for the heat transfer after the heat wrap finishes. It's not going to concentrate heat anywhere. That area has a fairly constant supply of passing air anyway.

I've had no experience with heat wrap, or ceramic coating. I can only give my understanding from what i've seen others do and heat wrap tends to cause the wrapped pipe to rust quick. Ceramic coating is the best way to get better underbonnet temps. That's not to say there may be a combination of metal and certain heat wraps that don't cause the corrosion. But I havn't seen anyone do any research into it.

First thing I would do is pressure test your cooling system. I would also check the concentation. Just to see. Provided that yields no results, I would then go to pulling the radiator out and sticking the hose into it. Both inlet and outlet feeds untill what comes out is fresh water. Stick the hose into the fins making sure they're clear. Be carefull with the pressure. It can bend them.

While the radiator's out, check that there's no mud between the intercooler and condensor. I have personally seen a shiite load of mud get stuck between radiators and condensors after dips in the mud.

I would then pull the thermostat out aswell as any drain cocks in the block. Then hose the block out. Making sure all gunk comes out and the hoses for the drain cocks arn't corroded up. Just get some wire and shove it up there. A good length up there too. While it's out, stick the thermostat in a pot and cook it. Keep an eye on water temps and make sure that it pops open at the correct temp. It 'should' say it on the TS somewhere.

Once the system is clean, put it back together, refill, bleed and pressure test again. To be confident (aswell as to check you havn't cocked up anywhere) Drive it and see where that takes you. If it still does it. I would be going straight to the water pump. Pulling it off and checking the fins on the impeller. Check to see whether it slips on the shaft too.

It should'nt even matter once you get above 50-60km/h, but check and see if your fan's kicking in properly. If after all that, you still get the same thing, I would book it in and get the headgaskets checked.

Good luck!

[goingbush]

Exhaust wrap is excellent, keeps my Defender much cooler, bummer in winter tho it takes ages for the heater to work.

heres a pic of a genset from my ex work, All the exchange generators are heat wrapped, turbo and all. Dosent phase them

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/915.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/916.jpg