Issues Towing large van

[White D4]

Hi All

We have just picked up or new caravan, comes in at 3450kg totally loaded with a ball weight of 290kg the van is 9.8mtr long from hitch to spare wheel. I have fitted a McHitch 4.5t coupling.

Have had the D4 since jan 2010 and never had a problem towing our last van which was 20ft and weighed in at 2.7t

Just came back from a weekend away and this is the first time I didn't like the experience from the D4 in its towing manner, it seemed light in the front end and seemed to wallow around with the van on, even my wife noticed it and she started to feel uncomfortable with the feeling we stopped and moved things around but didn't make a difference.

It was fine in speeds under 70km but when we cruised on the freeway at between 80 & 90km it didn't feel good.

Can anyone with experience towing large heavy caravans give me some advise on this as I want to ensure my family are safe while we are towing and today we didn't feel that safe with the feel of the car.

To note, I put the car and van over a weigh bridge on Friday so the weights are correct and I also pack the van carefully taking note where I put heavy and light objects.

I have had people in the van park telling me to get a WDH but I know we cannot use them but several people with large vans said their rigs are stable with there landcruisers and WDH right up to 3.5t and 26ft long and don't wallow around and the braking and steering is firm and precise.

Help...........I love my D4 and was going to upgrade to the 3lt next year but my wife is now talking about looking at an LC200:(

[DiscoDavey]

Probably not the issue, but what was your luggage weight like in the D4? Fridges, passengers etc? Were you overloaded there?

[discotwinturbo]

G'day whited4,

We tow a heavy horse float weighing in at 3402 kgs at last weigh, and 345 on the tow ball.

Our Touareg with springs and wdh is more comfortable then our D4 3l. Virtually no wallowing in the veedub, that does occur in the D4. Steering is better in the veedub, whereas the D4 is noticeably lighter than unhitched. D4 is much easier to hitch up and has many more advantages of course, but for us towing the heavy weights is not as good as our 450kg lighter car with a wdh. But we live with it as the veedub has been towing this heavy weight for 3 1/2 years before the D4 took over, so time to give her a rest.

With our 2.5 tonne offroad trailer, the wallowing is still there but not as much.

Most people on this forum have great experiences towing heavy weight, but I have towed back to back with each of my cars, and find wdh superior in ride. Even the wife makes comment about the D4 not being as nice to tow the horse float with.

Brett....

[Graeme]

I consider that a WDH can be used with air suspension but you have to be careful not to transfer excessive weight to the front because there is not the ususal indication of the change in vehicle stance. The vehicle will stay level almost regardless of the amount of weight transferred, so try little increments until the steering feels right and perhaps checking the axle weights. A few years ago a magazime (Overlander IIRC) did a tow comparison where they fitted a WDH to every vehicle, including a D3. Initially too much weight was transferred but with a few adjustments they reported that it towed the heavy test van beautifully.

The fitting of a WDH might possibly reduce to some degree the D4's ability to detect trailer/van sway although a WDH primarily operates in a different plane to sway.

Whilst LR state that a WDH should not be used, they also state that speed should not exceed 100 kph but in the same paragraph state that high speed lowering (160 kph) will be disabled with the trailer/van electrical plug connected.

I would fit a WDH and do some experimenting. However I tend to do things that others wouldn't.

[White D4]

Hi Discodavey

All we had in the car was myself, my wife and 2 kids 18months and 3.5years old and in the back as a load was our buggy & a kids bike. So definitely not over weight.

We weighed the car while we weighed the van on Friday and and it came in at 2738kg with us in it.

Cheers

[Tombie]

You say you fitted the MC hitch...

How level is your van now sitting in relation to the vehicle?

I ask this because there was another member, whose van sat slightly nose up on the MC Hitch.

He fitted a slightly lower tongue which put the van down a little, sharing the load on the 2 axles better.

This solved his swaying problems.

Have you got a pic of yours hooked up?

[gghaggis]

Yes, as Tombie indicated, playing with slightly different tongue drops can help stabilize your rig - I assume the D4 is recognising your van, ie the little trailer icon comes on when you indicate?

Cheers,

Gordon

[White D4]

Hi guys

My van is dead level to the car as I run a Rapid Hitch with the McHitch as In the pictures.

The little trailer light doesn't come on when I indicate and has never with any van or trailer I have towed, I questioned my dealer about this and they said its correct that only comes on when trailer stability assist is fitted and my 2.7 doesn't.

I don't have a sway problem the van tracks nicely behind the car, it's the light steering and the wallow in the suspension that I find of concern.

[White D4]

Now for the picture of the D4 & caravan, couldn't figure out how to attach 2 pictures at the same time:p

[Tombie]

All D4s have trailer stability.

I'm thinking maybe you would benefit with firmer (aftermarket) shocks fitted (something any Cruiser would need as well)

[Tombie]

Nice rig.

The front bar work and winch will help provide some benefits. Mine got better once the bar/winch were added.

I tow a very heavy boat trailer combo and its a dream.

I would think the extra mass up front would return the feel your looking for...

[White D4]

Thanks Tombie, we love it. Only van we could find that would fit all the family, even the mother-in-law at times.................:o

It was explained to me by my dealer and another that the 2009 build 2.7tdv6 didn't come with trailer stability and apparently the trailer dash light isn't on mine either, can anybody confirm whether their 2.7 has it?

With your mention of the shocks, I thought the airbags did it all, is there shocks under that as well?

What bar did you put on? And does it mean the wallow feeling is diminished?

Cheers

[101RRS]

Thanks Tombie, we love it. Only van we could find that would fit all the family, even the mother-in-law at times.................:o

It was explained to me by my dealer and another that the 2009 build 2.7tdv6 didn't come with trailer stability and apparently the trailer dash light isn't on mine either, can anybody confirm whether their 2.7 has it?

With your mention of the shocks, I thought the airbags did it all, is there shocks under that as well?

What bar did you put on? And does it mean the wallow feeling is diminished?

Cheers

I think you have hit on your issue - all D4s have stability assist (never believe a stealer) and if the trailer light is not coming on I would suggest your D4 is not detecting the van is connected.

Garry

[White D4]

Would that make that much of a difference or does it change the suspension dynamics and gearing etc that much?

[sniegy]

(never believe a stealer) Garry

Easy bloke. ;-)

WhiteD4
YES every D4 has TSA regardless engine config.
YES the trailer icon should illuminate when connected, do you have LED's ?
If so you need to have an LED module fitted!
If not then ask the dealer or someone with a Faultmate to turn it on for you, when it asks choose 12N/12S (12 pin connection-black plug has 7 & white has 5) hopefully this will fix issue.

The TSA works regardless of a trailer connected, just the oscillation pick up is different.

HTH
Cheers

p.s. I'm not lying I promise :-)

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[White D4]

Thanks Sniegy

I take it your in the trade?

Where would I find a LED module off the shelf?

Does this change the air suspension setup also?

Cheers
Paul

[sniegy]

Thanks Sniegy

I take it your in the trade?

Where would I find a LED module off the shelf?

Does this change the air suspension setup also?

Cheers
Paul

Paul,
Have worked for a dealer for nearly 14yrs & with LR another 10yrs prior to this job. So Yes :-)
There are a few around & I have one of these.
http://www.linearelectronicdesign.com/
I know the owner of the company & you can order direct from him.
The unit has nothing to do with the Air Susp.
You need a Llams kit for that, contact Graeme on here for one of those.

Cheers

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[Graeme]

If the rear parking sensors are disabled with the van connected then the vehicle knows that the van is attached, even though the instrument trailer indicator does not light. My trailer has incandescent globes that don't light the indicator yet my van's incandescent globes do light the indicator.

There are shocks inside the air springs and they wear-out like every other shock, sooner if used on rough roads at higher speeds regularly or later if primarily smooth roads at slower speeds. I've just thoroughly worn-out a set of D3 shocks in 60K kms.

That's quite a long van!

Edit: Do you have high enough pressure in the rear tyres? Too soft can make the front feel like its wandering.

[Tombie]

As above.

- Tyre pressure up in the rear a bit
- look at new shocks
- yea the mass of a Winchbar and winch on the front will help distribute the feeling back to the front a noticeable amount.

On the power front - Bluefin tune the vehicle. Not quite 3.0l performance but much improved.

A guy here did an exhaust mod which is netting him better towing performance too. He's very pleased with and and not loud.

So, I'd go the winch bar first (a good idea anyway)

[mowog]

Adding a lot more weight will change the dynamics a whole lot.

I went from a 2300kg Coromal to a 3500kg Lotus.

I think there are a number of factors at play here.

You are noticing the extra weight as feedback my guess is your van has Simplicity suspension? It is hard riding and can cause a good deal of feedback.

I had Simplicity suspension on my van it was dumped for Control Rider independent all the towing sins went away when that was fitted.

DONT use a WDH.

[Tombie]

^agree with this last line 119%

[TerryO]

Good shocks make a massive difference when towing even on a air suspended D3/4.

When I had the original set of Koni's fitted, before they failed not only did it make the D3 handle extremely well it made towing our 2.5 ton van an absolute pleasure. When the shocks started to go off the D3 towed like a dog.

As for Simplicity suspension my van has it and it tows really well with no issues.

As others have said higher than standard pressure in the tyres also makes a big difference, as does having a level van when towing.

cheers,
Terry

[mowog]

I was sleepy last nite when I wrote my last response.

Lets see if I can be helpful today.

You have the same combo I have by the looks of it. McHitch, & Rapid Hitch

Are you still using the standard Land Rover hitch system?

With the Rapid Hitch and the standard Land Rover hitch you have a lot of moving parts that contribute to feedback issues between the D4 and the Van. Very minor movements can felt as as a very solid movement.

Issue 1. The Rapid Hitch can move around on the slider section.
Issue 2. The Rapid Hitch will rock on the locking pin in the Land Rover Reciever
Issue 3. The Land Rover Reciver dose move around a bit as well.

Put them all together and you have lots of movement in the hitch system.

Issue 1 no fix that I know of.
Issue 2 Shim the Land Rover reciver to stop the Rapid Hitch rocking on the pin.
Issue 3 Dump the Land Rover reciver and get a Mctichell brothers reciver.

If you do fix number 3 it should be pretty good.

If you were in QLD we could hook your van up to my D4 and see if the things I have done will solve your issues.

[mowog]

Good shocks make a massive difference when towing even on a air suspended D3/4.

When I had the original set of Koni's fitted, before they failed not only did it make the D3 handle extremely well it made towing our 2.5 ton van an absolute pleasure. When the shocks started to go off the D3 towed like a dog.

As for Simplicity suspension my van has it and it tows really well with no issues.

As others have said higher than standard pressure in the tyres also makes a big difference, as does having a level van when towing.

cheers,
Terry

It wasn't my intention to question the capabilities of the Simplicity suspension. But I have direct comparison experience with my Lotus. It went to Melbourne from Brisbane on the Simplicity. It then had control rider fitted. And back to Brisbane. The difference is just incredible.

I won't ever buy another van with simplicity suspension.

[TerryO]

Hi Mowog,

Yep Control Rider suspension is excellent and I agree a better set up in general than Simplicity, but a number of van makers only offer either Simplicity or old school non independent leaf spring and straight axle. That being the case for off road vans where extra ground clearance and independent suspension is a good thing then Simplicity is often the choice, plus unlike control rider it is load sharing which offers its own advantages.

While you had issues with yours I have not had any with mine and I have towed our van to some very out of the way rough spots for over two years now without issue.

cheers,
Terry

[mowog]

Hi Mowog,

Yep Control Rider suspension is excellent and I agree a better set up in general than Simplicity, but a number of van makers only offer either Simplicity or old school non independent leaf spring and straight axle. That being the case for off road vans where extra ground clearance and independent suspension is a good thing then Simplicity is often the choice, plus unlike control rider it is load sharing which offers its own advantages.

While you had issues with yours I have not had any with mine and I have towed our van to some very out of the way rough spots for over two years now without issue.

cheers,
Terry

The issue with mine was they fitted 3000kg suspension and not 3500kg so when it needed to be changed I opted for the control rider.