Simple/robust dual-battery set-up?

[Samblers]

I’m after some recommendations for a simple dual-battery kit for running a fridge for daytrips/weekend trips plus the odd camp light or two. Not an expedition set-up. There’s lots of dual-battery threads but I’m still a little confused as to what people consider a reliable but ‘no frills’ set-up.

My previous camping vehicle (a VW kombi) had a deep cycle battery which was connected in parallel to the main battery using a $20 fused relay, activated off a 12v signal from the engine generator (dynamo). It was crude, but this is how it seems to be done and served our purposes for many years in UK and Aus. The charging system (engine generator) wasn’t really up to the job though and we had a few trips with less than good charge, the battery eventually died and I vowed to get a better set-up next time…

Now I’m the new owner of a 2010 defender 110 with (I presume) a decent charging system, I plan on installing a deep cycle battery underneath the passenger seat.

I’m seeing installation kits for $100 and anything up to $500 all claiming certain amounts of protection, visual battery monitors, etc. What do people recommend is actually required, and what is a good kit for a basic but robust set-up that can be easily installed by an electrical simpleton (i.e. me)?

Sorry if this has been asked many times before

Sam

[Sleepy]

I would think traxide (http://www.traxide.com.au/Traxide.html) is a good start.

Talk (send a PM) to Drivesafe - he knows his stuff.

[steveG]

I'm very happy with my Traxide SC80 controller. It works well with no drama's.
Its in an older 110, but mainly just the fridge running off the aux battery.

Steve

[Samblers]

Good link, thanks

I notice this one drains the main vehicle battery (down to a safe level) as well as the leisure battery(s) - is that an issue?

I was expecting to use the leisure battery(s) only when camped

[weeds]

Good link, thanks

I notice this one drains the main vehicle battery (down to a safe level) as well as the leisure battery(s) - is that an issue?

I was expecting to use the leisure battery(s) only when camped

no issue at all, tim's system taps into the start battery to better utilise its excess power (over and above the starting requirement). its seperates the two when the start battery drops to just above the required voltage to start the car.........then you are operating just on your leisure battery

its worked well for me, i run one sometimes two fridge and a light or two...........my previous setup was a relay similar to what you are used to

[Chops]

I have just had these same concerns myself, and then said discussion/advice from Drivesafe.
On his advice, as soon as I can afford it, as in both his system and the battery, I'll be doing it.
Although my rig needs to be able to keep us good for lengths of time out on our own, a tried and proven setup is three quarters of the battle. Also, with Drivesafe being on here, and various others being on here with his setup, if/when something should go wrong (God forbid), there's plenty of help here.

[n plus one]

Get a Traxide system and a Optima D34 yellow top and never have to think about it again.

[Samblers]

Get a Traxide system and a Optima D34 yellow top and never have to think about it again.

I think you guys sold me on Traxide.

Have been reading for a while now :eek: ... seems I may have a battle with the battery tray/ floor ahead of me... which i'd prefer not to modify.

Does the Optima require any tray mods and is this (55Ah) about the largest you can get in without any mods? Was hoping for a little larger ...

[n plus one]

I think you guys sold me on Traxide.

Have been reading for a while now :eek: ... seems I may have a battle with the battery tray/ floor ahead of me... which i'd prefer not to modify.

Does the Optima require any tray mods and is this (55Ah) about the largest you can get in without any mods? Was hoping for a little larger ...

Mines just jammed in there at the moment (an has been with no dramas for over a year) - you can get a Pirhana tray to suite this set up, but I'm contemplating eith replacing the standard battery with two more Optimas or getting a D44 battery tray and two 68ah Odyssey PC1500s.

How much power do you need - you should get about 45ah out of the Optima and something in the region of 15-20ah from the main using the Traxide set up. Given that a fridge pulls around 0.8ah, this set up gets me through a w/e no dramas.

[manic]

alternator activated relay works fine for me. Isolated aux battery when switched off, both charge well with engine running.

Perhaps the kombi had a poor alternator or odd/old batteries?

I run run a matched pair of 75aH batteries driven by a standard 70amp alternator - not fancy batteries and they have been good for three years.

Only down side is no cut off when the AUX battery gets low - it can drain all the way down which will kill a batteries storage capacity.

When I need new batteries I may add another relay to cut the power take off from the AUX when battery is low voltage.. triggered by some simple circuit.

I like knowing my starter is completely isolated and fully charged, never know when you may need to crank the crap out of it!

M.

[DeanoH]

...............................and is this (55Ah) about the largest you can get in without any mods? Was hoping for a little larger ...

Don't let the size (in amp hours) of the (Optima) battery fool you. Whilst they may be smaller in capacity than an equivalent 'normal' lead acid battery they more than make up for it with their charge rate and robustness.

Consider a 'normal' N70 lead acid battery, about 100 ah. When discharged to half capacity it would take at least 8 hours to fully recharge. If discharged to one quarter capacity you would probably need 12 hours to fully recharge.

For a similarly sized Optima (D27M @ 66 ah) the times would be 1 and 2 hours assuming the charging system was capable. The ability to rapidly charge the Optima battery and its resistance to failure from vibration (corrugated roads) more than compensate for its apparent lack of capacity.

If you're a dinosaur like me and hate vehicle electronics and its inherent unreliability with a passion you would have bought a 300 Tdi and installed your old system of alternator fed relay/solenoid coupling of the two batterys. No electronics, reliable and simple, easily understood and simple to diagnose and repair if a problem. :)

As you've invested in a modern electronic marvel with the Puma, I can only sympathise with your death wish / blind faith in vehicle electronics ;) . In this case it is no longer a blind leap of faith to trust an 'electronic' battery coupler/controller.:D

Have no fear, when it all comes crashing down around your ears there will always be a 200/300 Tdi forum member/dinosaur out there to rescue you. :D:D

Seriously though, Traxide has a number of products out there that will suit your purpose, set and forget electronic marvels, give him a hoy. :)

Deano :)

[Samblers]

As you've invested in a modern electronic marvel with the Puma, I can only sympathise with your death wish / blind faith in vehicle electronics ;) . In this case it is no longer a blind leap of faith to trust an 'electronic' battery coupler/controller.:D

Ha!

I'm no technophobe but there is an elegance in simplicity*... any 'problem' can be solved by throwing money at it. $500 for a dual battery controller, $240 for a Pirahna battery tray (wow - bent metal), $200 for the battery at least, plus wiring, connectors... may as well buy a generator!

My fridge (Waeco 40L) draws 2A/h average from memory (published figures), though i think our camping experience showed it was less than this. 55Ah gives me a day and a bit i figure, conservative. Down the track i may end up with a camper trailer so can shove additional batteries in that if required.


*Manic - yes the kombi had a poor generator and old/bad batteries. Not bad for 1964 though, and could be fixed with a lollipop stick and a hammer most times :)

[wannabeexplorer]

What are your opinions about Redarc?

Battery Isolator & Wiring Kit 12V (SBI12KIT) - REDARC (http://www.redarc.com.au/products/product/battery-isolator-and-wiring-kit-12v/)

[harro]

I’m after some recommendations for a simple dual-battery kit for running a fridge for daytrips/weekend trips plus the odd camp light or two. Not an expedition set-up. There’s lots of dual-battery threads but I’m still a little confused as to what people consider a reliable but ‘no frills’ set-up.

My previous camping vehicle (a VW kombi) had a deep cycle battery which was connected in parallel to the main battery using a $20 fused relay, activated off a 12v signal from the engine generator (dynamo). It was crude, but this is how it seems to be done and served our purposes for many years in UK and Aus. The charging system (engine generator) wasn’t really up to the job though and we had a few trips with less than good charge, the battery eventually died and I vowed to get a better set-up next time…

Now I’m the new owner of a 2010 defender 110 with (I presume) a decent charging system, I plan on installing a deep cycle battery underneath the passenger seat.

I’m seeing installation kits for $100 and anything up to $500 all claiming certain amounts of protection, visual battery monitors, etc. What do people recommend is actually required, and what is a good kit for a basic but robust set-up that can be easily installed by an electrical simpleton (i.e. me)?

Sorry if this has been asked many times before

Sam

Hi Sam,
I run one of these Smart Start SBI 12V 100A (SBI12) - REDARC (http://www.redarc.com.au/products/product/smart-start-sbi_12v_100a/)
A very simple and robust unit, has been in the car for about 5 years now with no problems.
Also a voltage panel meter coming of the aux. battery fitted in the dash so I can see what voltage is in the Aux battery when they are separated by the isolator and also the charging voltage when they are linked (vehicle running).
Simple system and has done us very well for the time it has been installed.

However saying all that I have never seen a negative comment for the Traxide system recommended here and if I didn't already have the Redarc unit I probably would have gone that way.

12 volt Led panel meters are sold on Ebay very cheap with some reading amps as well although I was happy with just volts.

Cheers,
Paul.

[harro]

What are your opinions about Redarc?

Battery Isolator & Wiring Kit 12V (SBI12KIT) - REDARC (http://www.redarc.com.au/products/product/battery-isolator-and-wiring-kit-12v/)

As said in my previous post, I am very happy with mine.
Although I just purchased the Isolator and got the wiring and terminals separately.

Cheers,
Paul

[Samblers]

Just ordered a Traxide isolator and an Optima D34 battery … thanks for all the input. Tim was v helpful.

Two further questions:

Best routing for cabling front to back? Presume exit underneath battery tray and run under the body? I will be installing a couple of accessory sockets and an Anderson plug for connecting to camper trailer.

Also what location are people typically using for the accessory sockets in the back of the car?

Cheers, Sam

[Chops]

Just ordered a Traxide isolator and an Optima D34 battery … thanks for all the input. Tim was v helpful.

Two further questions:

Best routing for cabling front to back? Presume exit underneath battery tray and run under the body? I will be installing a couple of accessory sockets and an Anderson plug for connecting to camper trailer.

Also what location are people typically using for the accessory sockets in the back of the car?

Cheers, Sam

Hopefully won't be too long before I can order mine :)

Don't forget to post some install pics Sam. :D

[Babs]

Here is mine done, original battery turned sideways allows to fit another the same size, two 90AH

54174

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[JayBoRover]

Here is mine done, original battery turned sideways allows to fit another the same size, two 90AH

54174

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
Did you do the instal yourself Babs? Was it a "kit"? Is there a plate that the batteries sit on? What isolator have you used? Too many questions??:D

[Babs]

Did you do the instal yourself Babs? Was it a "kit"? Is there a plate that the batteries sit on? What isolator have you used? Too many questions??:D

No, my mechanic did this mod, the isolator/electrics are Redarc, and he made a custom plate.

I'll get some more pics and info up, soon. :)

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Samblers]

Here is mine done, original battery turned sideways allows to fit another the same size, two 90AH

54174

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

I had a quick play and the optima d34 doesn't seem to fit with the original battery in place. May have to rotate both or shove the main cranker over a little to get both in there. Did others find this?

[n plus one]

I had a quick play and the optima d34 doesn't seem to fit with the original battery in place. May have to rotate both or shove the main cranker over a little to get both in there. Did others find this?

Yep, I pulled the original battery mounts, pushed the original battery sideways and dropped the D34 in (almost cost me a thumb nail).

It was a temporary job just to get things going - 35k later it's still like that...

[Samblers]

I have the mulgo dual battery clamp... If I can get that in with the two of them I'll be sorted

[5teve]

just another vote of confidence for traxide (its not like he needs it) I have had an SC40 running in my boat for the last 4 years. It lives on top of the battery in a plastic battery box at the back and cops a lot of vibration (its a 6m ally) cops a lot of salty dampness and i never ever maintain it! It keeps running and working and i have the simplest boat charge system around. No more selecting which circuit i want to use or charge.. i just start and go.. :) Great quality stuff..

Steve

[Albert]

I got this, (Aussie made)
GSL Smart Battery Isolator 100Amp - 12v
from here,
Caravan Switches & Relays | Shop Online CaravansPlus (http://caravansplus.com.au/catalog/index.php?cPath=994_32_1060_47&osCsid=mt23a4cqge9u1gnou7vr5oubn4)

I did have a similer unit from autobarn but the contacts burnt after 8 months of being used very little. GSL also make a 150A unit that I would have got if I knew of at the time.
I used to have a solenoid run off alt but couldnt find a live when running/dead when not when I changed to internal regulated alt.

[Samblers]

Some install pics of the dual battery system. Nothing too big or flashy, but hopefully reliable.

First things first, I equipped myself properly:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/7.jpg

I took out the factory battery support and flattened the floor off with some wood:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/8.jpg

Factory battery was able to be shoved sideways to accomodate second battery:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/9.jpg

Theres two factory cable straps on the front wall of the battery box. I drilled these out and mounted a wood panel using the same holes and use this to mount the isolater (traxide SC80) unit and other electrical items:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/10.jpg

Optima D34 came next. Secured with a front runner dual batt clamp (had to be butchered):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/11.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/12.jpg

Cables run in conduit exiting battery box to rear through the factory gland:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/13.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/14.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/15.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/16.jpg

Anderson plug at rear, plus accessory sockets in the back of the car:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/17.jpg

A sheet of rubber matting was placed over the whole thing, lest the Mrs should get an unpleasant zap in the ass :)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/18.jpg

Plus I left the circuit diagram on the lid, for reference:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/19.jpg

Seems to be working OK so far, fingers crossed. Thanks for all your input :BigThumb:

Sam

[JayBoRover]

Hey Sam.
Great photo's:arms:. Thanks for taking the time to put it together. Did the factory cables reach the new location or did you have to extend them or replace them? Did you have the extra cables for joining the two batteries pre-made or did cut and crimp to suit as you installed?
My turn to do the same install is not too far away.
Cheers
John B

[Chops]

Top work Sam. Thanks for posting the pics, it looks great.

I'll be going through the same thing shortly when I order mine soon.

[Samblers]

cheers fellas

I kept the original battery leads as they were, they reach the new location for the battery ok. the kit I bought from traxide came with some of the leads pre-wired with some of the others requiring soldered connections. I found that my soldering iron wasn't really man enough to solder these large diameter cables so it took a while and was a bit of a struggle. I also had some learning to do with the Anderson plug as I was not familiar with this or the terminals used... Time will tell if I got it right or not!

cheers, Sam

Another thing - the circuit diagram suggested running just one big fat +ve feed from front to back but i took advice and installed a separate additional feed (so that's one for the Anderson and another for the accessories in the rear). The accessory feed (smaller cable) I put a 20A fuse on. I just mention this as if id have done both at the same time it would have been a lot quicker

[Jode]

I didn't notice any comments regarding where to put the plugs in the rear, so here's what we did:

We put one each side at the bottom of the black sheet metal post behind the side doors, just above the sloping ends of the tub sides, as this seemed to keep el. leads well away from our stores (which are boxed below, as well as on top of, a wooden platform that lies on the tops of the tub sides). Although far from the rear door, this set-up suits our needs (fridge/freezer that sits on top of platfrom at extreme right rear; plug to left for charging torches etc.). We also have two plugs in the Mud4X4 consol unit that we fit to the dash; and as our GPS is wired permanently, we're well covered.

[Samblers]

I put mine in the back, here ...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1541.jpg

Easy to run cabling to using same route as rear light wiring, and can be easily reached with back door open.

Sam

[drivesafe]

Hi Samblers and an excellent write-up.

If you get a chance, let me know how much split tube you needed and I’ll add it to future Defender kits.

As I do not have ready access to a Defender, if you have any other suggestions, please post them up as well.

The large terminals can be a problem but unfortunately there are only two options, crimp then which is fine if you have a large terminal crimper or have access to one.

Or solder them, which is what I recommend if someone is not use to working with these large terminals, but as you found out, use need a large enough soldering iron.

[Samblers]

Thanks Tim

I bought 20m of 16mm conduit from supercheap - I guess I used about 5m, that would be enough.

I have a crimp tool (not sure if it was a large one), which requireda lot of straining to get the terminals to collapse/bite... then did my best with the soldering iron so i hope they'll be ok. If not, i'll get a larger iron and try again.

A little more heatshrink would have been handy, to account for stuff-ups. Otherwise, happy.

Cheers, Sam

[Samblers]

I should also mention that Tim gave me a discount for being an AULRO forum member :thumbsup:

[steveG]

Hi Samblers and an excellent write-up.

If you get a chance, let me know how much split tube you needed and I’ll add it to future Defender kits.

As I do not have ready access to a Defender, if you have any other suggestions, please post them up as well.

The large terminals can be a problem but unfortunately there are only two options, crimp then which is fine if you have a large terminal crimper or have access to one.

Or solder them, which is what I recommend if someone is not use to working with these large terminals, but as you found out, use need a large enough soldering iron.

If you're meaning battery cable size terminals, I've had really good success with an alternative method using a vice, hammer, and center punch.

I open the jaws of a vice slightly (probably about half the diameter of the cable part of the crimp lug), rest the lug on the top, insert the stripped cable end, then use a hammer to drive a center punch into the lug to crimp it. Usually I just use a single indentation, but have sometimes used a second one on larger (70mm2) cables.
End result is similar to the Anderson plug crimping tools that have a single conical part to do the swaging.
In the absence of proper crimp tools, I've tried many methods of butchery over the years, but this one is by far the most successful.

The joints end up mechanically strong ie I haven't yet managed to pull one out by giving it a decent yank while clamped in the vice, and seem to perform well electrically. Beats the heck out of trying to solder them with not enough heat (and subsequent dry joints), or resorting to trying to squash them in a vice.

Steve

[Samblers]

If you're meaning battery cable size terminals, I've had really good success with an alternative method using a vice, hammer, and center punch.

Battery-sized terminals, and the slightly smaller diameter 50A ones for the anderson plug.

I considered the method you describe but had to add the terminals after threading the cable through the chassis, i.e. everything has to be done on the car, within confined space.

[Chops]

Thanks Tim

I bought 20m of 16mm conduit from supercheap - I guess I used about 5m, that would be enough.

I have a crimp tool (not sure if it was a large one), which requireda lot of straining to get the terminals to collapse/bite... then did my best with the soldering iron so i hope they'll be ok. If not, i'll get a larger iron and try again.

A little more heatshrink would have been handy, to account for stuff-ups. Otherwise, happy.

Cheers, Sam


What ever happened to measure twice cut once :wasntme:

Umm, Mr Drivesafe, (Tim), umm, could you please ensure you send me some extra ;)
I'll be ordering my system this week :D

[Samblers]

What ever happened to measure twice cut once :wasntme:

"measure twice, cut once... bang three times, solder five times, heatshrink once, swear three times, remove heatshrink... repeat, etc"

[Chops]

Hey Sam, where abouts did you end up placing the main module? Have you mounted it on the dash somewhere or is it in the Bat compartment, although that doesn't seem like a good place for it (?).

[Rustbucket]

Did an almost exact Traxide install as Sambler about 18 months ago. Everything fits under passenger seat with a bit of juggling. The SC80 unit was screwed onto front side of battery compartment. Still working well.

[gitney]

+ 1 for SC80 and almost identical install as above. It kept the engel cold for a lap around aus last year without any problems.

[Samblers]

Hey Sam, where abouts did you end up placing the main module? Have you mounted it on the dash somewhere or is it in the Bat compartment, although that doesn't seem like a good place for it (?).

Its on the front of the battery compartment, on the bit of jarrah, like the other fella above...

Seems to be working without issues (touchwood) - did 1 week of camping and didnt even think about it :)

[Chops]

Ahh, ok,, my bad,, let's try again ;)

So where did you place the LED Switch (in-cab module) ? :angel:

[Samblers]

So where did you place the LED Switch (in-cab module) ? :angel:


Ugh? Didnt get me one o them???

Would like an LED in-cab to indicate status, is that what it is and where can I get one???

[Chops]

I bought the USI-160 unit, so mines got that, so I'm trying to work out the best place to mount it.
As its not hooked up yet, that's the weekends job, I'm not sure if the lights on/off or flashing all the time, so I don't want it in what could potentially be an annoying spot.

With your original battery, it looks like you were able to use the existing clamps, is that right?

[Samblers]

The LR battery (main cranker) on mine didnt have an 'over the top' style clamp... it was clamped at the base. I re-used the little base clamps, screwing them into the wood with some roofing screws.

The 2nd battery i fixed in using a mulgo battery strap (which i had to hit with the hammer. a lot.)

[mfc]

i used a redarc isolator 100 amp smartstart {td5} and ran enough "battery cable" to an anderson plug
If you mount whatever size battery you want in the rear in a battery box you can leave the battery/fridge/solar set up at a campsite
you will find you get more deep cycle for youre buck than the sizes you can shoehorn under the seat..
{no slights on traxide either, i needed an isolator on that day and didnt have the time to wait for postage as my medication was defrosting due to a cheep isolator}