Series 1 Diesels?

[4x4 MORE]

Hi Guys I know that the 88 inch series 1 was made to fit a diesel engine..but did we get them over here?:confused:

The Diesel I mean..I know we got the 1.5 and 2 litre petrol's..but diesels?

[JDNSW]

Yes, as far as I remember they were sold here, but were quite uncommon. The 2.0l diesel continued in the Series 2 and these were more common, but still rare. There are few of these engines about today in either Series 1 or 2, as they have, if the vehicle is still going, usually been replaced with a 2.25l engine, a drop in replacement superior in all respects. (or some other engine) Parts for the 2.0l diesel can be hard to find.

In the late 1950s in Australia diesel engines in this type of vehicle were not something most buyers would even think of. By the early sixties, they were very much more popular. I owned a 2a diesel in the mid sixties, and even then it was quite difficult to find fuel away from the main highways.

John

[S3ute]

Hello,

John is right.

My family sold Land Rovers and IH tractors and trucks in the 50s through to the 70s and the garage sold fuel and lubricants.

Basically, in the 50s petrol was cheap, diesel was scarce, small tractors and many trucks generally ran on standard petrol while the larger tractors used power kerosene. We sold very little diesel because no one used it and the garage wasn't on a major highway.

Beyond that, the road performance of the original diesels was not fantastic and they weren't necessarily much better than the petrol engines.

Cheers,

[JDNSW]

Hello,

John is right.

My family sold Land Rovers and IH tractors and trucks in the 50s through to the 70s and the garage sold fuel and lubricants.

Basically, in the 50s petrol was cheap, diesel was scarce, small tractors and many trucks generally ran on standard petrol while the larger tractors used power kerosene. We sold very little diesel because no one used it and the garage wasn't on a major highway.

Beyond that, the road performance of the original diesels was not fantastic and they weren't necessarily much better than the petrol engines.

Cheers,

The main buyers for the first Landrover diesel were operators who were using diesel fuel already, typically for heavy trucks or tractors - although as you point out, most small trucks and tractors were petrol. The company I worked for in the 1960s ran a fleet of medium trucks plus fairly heavy trucks with drilling rigs on them (some tandem drive or 6x6). All were petrol into the seventies; the only diesel we had was for the camp generator.

The longer range for the same fuel tank led to some diesel sales in places where the distances were long such as central Australia, and in this case the immunity to vapour lock was another selling point, although this was never really a problem with any Landrover.

When Rover introduced that first diesel, it needs to be borne in mind that there were virtually no comparable engines in existence. There were small Perkins, with an inferior power/weight ratio, and there was the somewhat smaller Mercedes - and that was about it! The first diesel Landcruiser was almost fifteen years into the future. (There were a few exotic engines fitted aftermarket to Landrovers, but they were expensive, heavy, gutless, and found the gearing unsuitable)

This engine was really pioneering new ground, especially in coming up with an engine that could use the same drive train as the petrol engine - other small diesels of the time had much lower maximum rpm, and would have needed different gearing. It was one of the first applications of the distributor type injection pump, and probably, in terms of numbers, the largest.

John

[Landy Smurf]

i thought i heard that there were 12 diesels that came here i know of one of them nearby

[digger]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/42367-spotted-3.html

post 21.

[Blknight.aus]

This engine was really pioneering new ground, especially in coming up with an engine that could use the same drive train as the petrol engine - other small diesels of the time had much lower maximum rpm, and would have needed different gearing. It was one of the first applications of the distributor type injection pump, and probably, in terms of numbers, the largest.

John


in essence it was amongst the first of the "high speed diesels" in the day a diesel engine that could crack it past 3K Rpm.. it'll never hold together.

[JDNSW]

in essence it was amongst the first of the "high speed diesels" in the day a diesel engine that could crack it past 3K Rpm.. it'll never hold together.

Yes. Of course, the term 'high speed' can mean anything! I have in front of me "The Modern Diesel. A review of High Speed Compression Ignition Oil engines". Published in 1935, the book reviews engines from 108 manufacturers. Perhaps a typical 'high speed' engine of the day is the Mercedes engine that produced 77BHP at 1650rpm from 7.0l and weighed in at about 580kg.

OK, the Rover engine was designed twenty years later, but considering little advance was made in small diesels from 1939 - 1945, it is still a pretty impressive performance, largely based on the work of Ricardo in the 1930s and CAV in the 1950s - the key to high speed diesel operation is getting the fuel and air mixed. Especially when you consider that Rover had never designed or built a diesel before.

John

[dennisS1]

I have 1, Photos posted here under "2013 project"
Dennis

[4x4 MORE]

Thanks Guys..the 2.0 Petrol is probably good enough off road anyway:D

[lro11]

i thought i heard that there were 12 diesels that came here i know of one of them nearby

I don't think this is the case I have a couple of 2ltr diesels and I know of a couple more but I do agree hard to get and rebuild kits don't exist

[chazza]

hard to get and rebuild kits don't exist

I once had a forum discussion with a chap in Ireland who was restoring a 2 litre diesel and I asked him how he was going with parts. He said that just about everything was available, which surprised me greatly, seeing that the magazines at the time were warning people off owning one.

Unfortunately, I can't remember any great detail now, but I think the crankshaft is unique; however; most of the other engine internals can be sourced from other Land Rover diesels,

Cheers Charlie

[JDNSW]

I once had a forum discussion with a chap in Ireland who was restoring a 2 litre diesel and I asked him how he was going with parts. He said that just about everything was available, which surprised me greatly, seeing that the magazines at the time were warning people off owning one.

Unfortunately, I can't remember any great detail now, but I think the crankshaft is unique; however; most of the other engine internals can be sourced from other Land Rover diesels,

Cheers Charlie

The sleeves are almost certainly unique, and are likely to be one of the needed parts. Pistons, not too sure, but again, likely to be unique. Precombustion chambers are unique, and likely to need replacing, but the entire head is, I'm pretty certain, interchangeable with the 2.25. Things like the seals on the sleeves could be a problem as well.

But parts such as valve gear, everything in the timing case, etc are almost certainly the same as or interchangeable with other Rover engines.

John

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Guys I know that the 88 inch series 1 was made to fit a diesel engine..but did we get them over here?:confused:

The Diesel I mean..I know we got the 1.5 and 2 litre petrol's..but diesels?

Yes, I once owned a 2 litre Land rover diesel which I had fitted to a 4" centrifical pump for flood irrigation, I sold it on to a saw miller who then used it for years driving a Lincoln Welder.

Now I own a 88" series one that has no motor, sigh! :(
.

[lro11]

most of the other engine internals can be sourced from other Land Rover diesels,

Cheers Charlie


Wish it was the case. The liner is easy enough to remanufacture but the pistons are a problem I could get some made but I would have to buy moq of 500.
So if someone can help us with a supplier I have three engines that could use some new slugs.

[turkeybrain]

I'm pretty sure a company called JP Pistons are happy to make one-off specials. I haven't had any dealings with them though, I've only seen them advertised in a magazine.

http://www.jp.com.au/JPPistons.html

-Martin

[wrinklearthur]

I'm pretty sure a company called JP Pistons are happy to make one-off specials. I haven't had any dealings with them though, I've only seen them advertised in a magazine.
JP Pistons Home Page (http://www.jp.com.au/JPPistons.html) -Martin

I was recommended to contact this company by a vintage car enthusiast, to replace an oversized piston in 'Freds' 300TDi engine.
.

[chazza]

Top link to JP Pistons Martin! If they can't make them nobody can!

The parts or the ability to make them are out there somewhere in the World - it would be nice to see some running 2 litre diesels :)

Cheers Charlie

Found this link on the Series One Club site http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php'topic=5192.msg32756#msg32756 http://www.fwthornton.co.uk/ according to Lyndon (the chap I emailed years ago about a 2 litre diesel) Thornton can supply liners and pistons. Someone else on the forum thinks that the crankshaft is dimensionally similar to the 2 1/4 litre engine. I have emailed Lyndon to see if he can aid my failing memory.

[chazza]

Here you are all you lucky 2L diesel owners!

Quote from Lyndon on the Series One Club forum,


When I first got my 2L diesel it had a 2.25 diesel head fitted - at least one of the coolant holes in the 2.25 head doesn't line up to those in the 2L block but it appears to have been a very common swap to keep the engine running. The 2L manifolds are completely interchangable with those from the 2.25 diesel. The 2L diesel heads are fairly difficult to find but I think you are in the right place to find a good one! The tappet assemblies remained the same right up to 200Tdi production - so should be easy to source. From memory, the parts numbers quoted for the crankshaft are the same as those for the 3 main bearing 2.25 petrol and I think the part number for the camshaft was the same as one of the later engines too. Before I'd part with cash I would check the journal dimensions first though... Given that the later 2.25 petrol and diesel engines were based on the 2L diesel, I suspect that the oil pump could be a common fitment. A good starting point to check parts commonality would be John Craddock's web site - they still have some 2L diesel engine parts and it states where there is a crossover in application. With regard to the fuel injection pump, the chap who reconditioned mine suggested that he could set it up to either 2L or 2.25 diesel spec. If that is the case, another old fashioned diesel fitter should be able to set up a later 2.25 pump to suit a 2L diesel engine.
FW Thornton in the UK make replacement pistons and liners (or did produce them)

I have just had a look at the John Craddock website and the search term "2 litre diesel" showed quite an array of parts common to the 2.25 diesel, including pre-combustion chambers; oil pump; camshaft and heaps more.

So it appears that pistons; cylinder head and liners are unique but that is about it. FW Thornton used to make liners and may still do so; pistons can be made by JP Pistons and Thornton I think; and a 2.25 cylinder head can be substituted if the head isn't available. PA Blanchard have a new 2 litre cylinder head in stock, found by Googling the part number.

If you find a 2 litre diesel restore it!

Cheers Charlie

[lro11]

Well thanks to all for some good diesel info I have stumbled across some nos pistons so my diesels will get a birthday

[Chris72]

I'm pretty sure a company called JP Pistons are happy to make one-off specials. I haven't had any dealings with them though, I've only seen them advertised in a magazine.

JP Pistons Home Page (http://www.jp.com.au/JPPistons.html)

-Martin

I had JP pistons made up for my 149 motor back in 07, very good quality pistons service was great, they supplied rings and bearing as well.

Cheers chris

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Grenville Motors NSW distributed 1958 88" diesels: 118800001
118800002
118800003
118800004
118800005
118800006
118800028
118800029
118800030
118800031
118800032
118800033
118800034
118800035
118800036
118800037
118800038
1188000391958 109" diesels: 128800032
118800033
118800046
118800047
118800048
118800049
118800062
118800063