D3 fuel filter water sensor

[AnD3rew]

Came across this

LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 3 DIESEL FUEL FILTER WATER SENSOR | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LAND-ROVER-DISCOVERY-3-DIESEL-FUEL-FILTER-WATER-SENSOR-/220711802790?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item336372d7a6&_uhb=1#ht_1932wt_982)

On fleabay, is this a genuine part? And if so does that mean the D3 diesel comes with a built in water sensor in the fuel filter?

Not much info on the listing.

[DiscoDavey]

I think this quote from the ebay site gives it way:
"MANUFACTURER REFERS TO THE MAKE OF VEHICLE THIS ITEM IS SUITABLE FOR AND NOT THE MANUFACTURER OF THE ITEM!"

A bit cheeky really!

[AnD3rew]

I think this quote from the ebay site gives it way:
"MANUFACTURER REFERS TO THE MAKE OF VEHICLE THIS ITEM IS SUITABLE FOR AND NOT THE MANUFACTURER OF THE ITEM!"

A bit cheeky really!

Ah yes I think you are right. it would be useful to know a bit more about how it works and what it does and how you install it wouldn't it.

[Barryp]

I think that a water sensor is included as standard in the fuel filter from 2007 model LR3's. They changed the design in that year.
Regards
Barryp

[101RRS]

That looks like the standard fitting at the bottom of the 07MY on fuel filter. The only reason you would buy one of these is if you damaged the one fitted to your car.

Garry

[AnD3rew]

So I have a 2009 D3, I assume then that I have one. What happens if it senses water? A warning icon? Shut down?

[101RRS]

I am not sure - I assume the red engine fault comes on - meaning stop engine straight away.

I have checked my handbook and nothing seems to be there.

Garry

[AnD3rew]

Yes google has failed me on this one as well.

[101RRS]

It would seem that there is a an indication "Water in Fuel" but not covered in the handbook.

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Water in fuel (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic74855.html?highlight=water+fuel+sensor)

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - water in fuel (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic74602.html?highlight=water+fuel+sensor)

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - water in fuel warning (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic72010.html?highlight=water+fuel+sensor)

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Water in fuel (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic69592.html?highlight=water+fuel+sensor)

If you search "water fuel sensor" there is a whole more.

Garry

[Graeme]

On the D4 its an amber warning light. Mine gave the water in fuel warning every time the sensor wiring connector got splashed with water until I smothered the connector in silicone.

[NavyDiver]

On the D4 its an amber warning light. Mine gave the water in fuel warning every time the sensor wiring connector got splashed with water until I smothered the connector in silicone.

Warning light when off road or way out back might be disturbing. Why not add a fuel/water filter. I have one in my boat, when full of water no water or fuel gets to the motor. I have stopped about four times with a filter full of water which I simply empty and then off I go again with no water in my injectors.
An alarm sounds ok but you are stuck really if it goes off? Without a filter to remove the water, driving might be causing damage to your engine.

A filter with a glass bowl to allow inspection and removel of any water like

Fuel Manager - Terrain Tamer 4WD Parts (http://www.terraintamer.com/en/4wd-products/filters/item/207-fuel-manager)

or

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=135&item=34306
50quid for the ebay alarm option or $80 odd for whitworth and $150 for the terrraintamer kit might be a better option. The terrraintamer allows an alert other then just an inspection option. I feel that might be unneeded if they work as well as the filter which works well in my boat which would be a cheaper option again. Space in our discos it the real issue for the filter, where to mount one?

[Graeme]

The filter housing contains a water trap with a drain. When mine first went off I was far from home, it was raining, after dark and I knew what a PITA it is to get access to the water drain. I soon worked-out that it must be a false alarm because I had travelled so far since refuelling from my local servo that had never caused problems before. I will mount another seperator / alarm in the engine bay for easy access that is plumbed before the LR filter.

[NavyDiver]

The filter housing contains a water trap with a drain. When mine first went off I was far from home, it was raining, after dark and I knew what a PITA it is to get access to the water drain. I soon worked-out that it must be a false alarm because I had travelled so far since refuelling from my local servo that had never caused problems before. I will mount another seperator / alarm in the engine bay for easy access that is plumbed before the LR filter.

Will 45Lpm flow rate be enough? Might try installing one on the weekend as I will be in the bush for a dawn and sunset hunt and a few hours to kill during the day.

http://www.dieselcare.com.au/fuel-manager-filter have up to 300 Litres/hour making the marine 10 gallons or 37 odd Litres/hour look a little light on.

[AnD3rew]

Warning light when off road or way out back might be disturbing. Why not add a fuel/water filter. I have one in my boat, when full of water no water or fuel gets to the motor. I have stopped about four times with a filter full of water which I simply empty and then off I go again with no water in my injectors.
An alarm sounds ok but you are stuck really if it goes off? Without a filter to remove the water, driving might be causing damage to your engine.

A filter with a glass bowl to allow inspection and removel of any water like

Fuel Manager - Terrain Tamer 4WD Parts (http://www.terraintamer.com/en/4wd-products/filters/item/207-fuel-manager)

or

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=135&item=34306
50quid for the ebay alarm option or $80 odd for whitworth and $150 for the terrraintamer kit might be a better option. The terrraintamer allows an alert other then just an inspection option. I feel that might be unneeded if they work as well as the filter which works well in my boat which would be a cheaper option again. Space in our discos it the real issue for the filter, where to mount one?

The terrain tamer looks good and several hundred cheaper than the Water watch one that Davis and others sell. Any one here have one installed?

[NavyDiver]

CAV Fuel Filter Adapter | 4WD Systems | Gear to Goannawhere (http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/index.php?id=28)

Looks like the Delpi 296 which is the marine link from Whitworth Marine at $89.90 I posted is used in 4wds by 4WD Systems Gilles Plains (Adelaide)

The prices for the others seems more than a little high and more suited to semi trailer engines or bigger.

Marine engines and parts are usualy tougher then most. Given my expiriacne with a overload of water stopping any fuel getting to my boat engine I am happy to try this one especially given the '4WD Systems Gilles Plains' using them.

[Graeme]

I would want one that triggers an alarm.

[NavyDiver]

I would want one that triggers an alarm.
The KISS principle works for me. You should see my "alarm" on the very few occasions my boat has stoped due to water in the filter:D.

If there is a little water (another post on long range tanks mentioned 5ml) what would we do? If I had a filter, I would simple keep driving and drain daily the filter or more. That works for my boat. If I had no filter I would stop, drain the both tanks and fuel lines and then load up with new fuel. This last option would not be a happy event if we are a long way from home and is not an option on my boat 50 miles off shore.

The alarm might be an additional bit of information which would only be useful 'if' you chose to dump all fuel even if you had the filter. It would give you an another option. A daily check while on tour or each time we fill up would be enough to keep me happy. Love my LLAMS, dual batteries, lights and even want the eletric trailer brakes but do not want to much more wiring or other bits in my disco.

[101RRS]

If I had a water alarm on my Common Rail I would be stopping immediately and getting the tank and lines cleaned out - given the cost of repair to the system I would not be relying in just draining the water catch on a regular basis. Now obviously if you are a thousand kms from anywhere with no one around then things are different and I would try and pump the dirty fuel out and separate the water from the fuel and top back up - then relying on the water catch to capture any that is left.

Garry

[Tote]

As Garry says the issue with common rail diesels is that you need to have a water seperator capable of withstanding the flow rate of several hundred litres an hour as the fuel pump circulates the diesel at this rate to cool and lubricate the high pressure pump.

The other problem is thatif you get a large amount of water in the fuel ( greater than the capacity of the trap ) then in all likelyhood the water alarm won't save you unless you shut down immediately due to the trap being overwhelmed.

Most water trap devices installed in line between the tank and the high pressure pump have the potential to void warranty on the injection system as well.

Regards,
Tote

[NavyDiver]

As Garry says the issue with common rail diesels is that you need to have a water seperator capable of withstanding the the diesel at this rate to cool and lubricate the high pressure pump.

The other problem is thatif you get a large amount of water in the fuel ( greater than the capacity of the trap ) then in all likelyhood the water alarm won't save you unless you shut down immediately due to the trap being overwhelmed.

Most water trap devices installed in line between the tank and the high pressure pump have the potential to void warranty on the injection system as well.

Regards,
Tote

Fasinating stuff- thanks Tote. Do our Discos 3 and 4s have that "flow rate of several hundred litres an hour"?

I was estimating based on fuel consumption not aware of the flow rate for recirculation../cooling... - "A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing:D"

Regards James

[Graeme]

Most water trap devices installed in line between the tank and the high pressure pump have the potential to void warranty on the injection system as well.The reason why my D4 doesn't yet have an after-market trap/alarm device.

[CaverD3]

Stop talking about VOIDing warranty. Your warranty (or part of it) cannot be voided by aftermarket modification. Manufacturer however may refuse an inividual claim if the modification caused the fault.
Generaly LR are ok is most claims and do not look for the out clause.

[AnD3rew]

Stop talking about VOIDing warranty. Your warranty (or part of it) cannot be voided by aftermarket modification. Manufacturer however may refuse an inividual claim if the modification caused the fault.
Generaly LR are ok is most claims and do not look for the out clause.

Pfffft. Sorry but not my experience at all, not the bit about modifications I haven't had to deal with that, but pretty much every time I have attempted a warranty claim LRA have tried to find a way out of it and it has always involved grief and argument.:twisted:

[CaverD3]

Interesting...different experience. Do you use a dealer for service?

[AnD3rew]

Interesting...different experience. Do you use a dealer for service?

Now my D3 is out of warranty I have just shifted to an independent but all of my issues have been while using Dealers. Which is one of the reasons I felt ok going to an independent because tbh the dealers don't seem to have made much difference.

[Tombie]

CAV Fuel Filter Adapter | 4WD Systems | Gear to Goannawhere (http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/index.php?id=28)

Looks like the Delpi 296 which is the marine link from Whitworth Marine at $89.90 I posted is used in 4wds by 4WD Systems Gilles Plains (Adelaide)

The prices for the others seems more than a little high and more suited to semi trailer engines or bigger.

Marine engines and parts are usualy tougher then most. Given my expiriacne with a overload of water stopping any fuel getting to my boat engine I am happy to try this one especially given the '4WD Systems Gilles Plains' using them.

Not a comforting statement I can tell you!

[101RRS]

CarverD3 is totally correct in that unless an aftermarket item has directly caused an issue a warranty claim cannot be declined - HOWEVER - they will often use it an excuse to say NO and then it is up to you to fight the system though the dealers/LRA and then maybe legally - yes you may very well win in the end but only after a lot of grief and stress.

If you are prepared to to fight then go for it - noting how can an additional filtering/water catch system cause damage - hopefully common sense would apply before the argie bargie went too far.

Garry

[CaverD3]

:BigThumb:

If you know that is the legal situation it helps when fighting a claim.
The risk of adding versus the risk of not having one is what you need to decide. If travelling outback I would fit one because LR are definately not going to entertain a warranty claim for fuel contamination (water or sediment) when if f%@ks your fuel injecors and/or pump.

[Barryp]

Hi Guys,

For those that are interersted LR have the info in the Handbook under the Fuel and Refuelling section.
Quote below:

WATER IN DIESEL FUEL SENSOR
If the warning

WATER IN FUEL SEE

HANDBOOK

is displayed in the

message centre, an excessive amount

of water has collected in the fuel filter

bowl. Seek assistance from a Land

Rover Dealer/Authorised Repairer to

have the filter drained as soon as

possible.

Regards
Barryp ;)

[Steve223]

played yesterday with my Hawkeye and it actually has a live status which shows
if there is any water in the fuel.

would be interested to know whether that would actually work with my 05 model.

[oldsalt]

Has anyone here actually installed a water trap system on their D3/4 - and if so... has it been effective ? Cost ? Brand name ? comments ...
cheers

[Barryp]

Hi Steve223,
My guess is it will only work on 2007 and newer as the older fuel filter doesn't have the electronics for the water sensor.
Regards,
Barryp

[Steve223]

Thanks Barry

I was quite amazed what live data is available via the Hawkeye would be awesome to hook it up to a iPad and transfer all or some of this data live to you iPad / dash board.

Does anyone know with which programming language you can extract the info?

[101RRS]

Time to change the fuel filter in my 07 RRS TDV6 (D3 equivalent). I have changed this four times in the past so thought it would be routine.

When I climbed under the car there was a light smear of oil on the underside - was diesel from the fuel filter - not enough to drop on the ground but enough to mark the underside.

For some reason the filter was a bitch to get out and was messy because of the small leak. Got the new filter ready and put new seals on the sensor. New filter went in easier than the old one came out but when I turned on the ignition to prime the fuel system fuel came rushing out - due to the idiotic position I could not see where exactly from.

Out came the filter again and I put the old seals back in on the sensor - I noticed where the wire comes out of the sensor the black sealing was a bit battered bit otherwise seemed Ok - put the filter back in and it leaked again - pulled it out and it seemed the leak was from the sensor so I tightened it a bit more and of course the plastic broke - bummer.

Quickly down to the dealer - hasn't got any but says that they are $253 each - :-( what the ..... $253 for a bit of threaded plastic and some wire - worth about $50. BUT here is the interesting bit - if you buy the entire fuel filter assembly - that is the fuel filter bracket, housing, fuel filter, and the sensor it is $6 cheaper at $247 for everything - Landrover Pricing is amazing sometimes.

A indy had a genuine one in stock and as I needed to get my car on the road - I paid the $253 and refitted the fuel filter - no leaks so it was the old sensor that was the problem.

I cannot believe the costs of some parts - I was quoted $185 for none genuine but none in stock.

So if you need a new sensor - buy the entire fuel filter kit - it is cheaper than just the sensor by itself.

On a side issue - has anyone moved the fuel filter forward about 8" so it is clear of the cross member?

Cheers

Garry

[DiscoJeffster]

It knowledge (not necessarily common though) that the whole assembly is cheaper (including filter) than the water sensor alone (stupid). I've been getting water in fuel errors recently so have a whole assembly ready to fit.