2.7 TDV6 - Pause a while then go

[101RRS]

I have had my RRS TDV6 for just on 2 years and have covered 34,000km in that time. Over all it has been quite reliable with a few fault messages that come up from time to time but all have been cleared except for the EGRS which have been replaced. This is the only major non service work that has been required.

One thing that does annoy me with the 2.7 is the pregnant pause that you get when you slow for traffic lights and roundabouts but do not stop and then try to accelerate away and there is no go for a second or two and as you tend to put the foot down trying to get some zoom zoom, when everything does come together the car takes off like a rocket on a launch pad. Really dangerous when trying to get into a stream of traffic.

Now most 2.7 drivers are familiar with this issue and it has been discussed on here before.

In my view, while there may be a little turbo lag compounding the issue, most is related to the programming of the gearbox. When in D or S I have noticed that when slowing down the gearbox changes down bit while the car is still moving at about 30kph the gearbox does not go below 3rd and it is only when coming to a stop that it changes down to 1st but if you slow to about 20 or 30 then decide to take off the gearbox is still in 3rd and cannot decide what to do for a while, then changes down and off you go. I might add that if you are in Command shift and controlling what gear you are in there is no issue and the car is fully responsive.

So has anyone found out if there is a way to get around this little issue with 2.7 equipped vehicles.

I might add that on the road kickdown is fine, and when you slow down and actually stop and take off, everything is fine - it is just when you slow down to stop but decide to to take off before you stop that the issue arises.

Thanks

Garry

[Celtoid]

It's been well covered but no fix suggested. It's not only the 2.7l, as the 3.0l is just as guilty....it's all about the auto. And when it lights up...it (the engine) can be a handful.

I either anticipate or slip into sports at busy intersections.

I've also got a feeling that the auto doesn't go into first very often in mine, I think it takes off in second. When I drive it in manual, first is a very short change.

[AnD3rew]

It is a feature and I don't think it can be fully cured, but there are a few tricks which help a little, the main one is being aware of it and driving with that knowledge in mind.

But two things I do which help. Firstly I pretend I am in a manual and knock the selector over to sport whenever I will need to accelerate quickly I do this in pretty much every situation where in a manual you would drop down a gear.

The second one is that I never press the accelerator to the floor when I want a lot of go, I find going about half to three quarters of the way until you feel the surge start and then bury it if you need more. Don't know if this is just my imagination but I'm pretty sure this gives better results.

[camel_landy]

Give it a try in 'Sand' mode and see if it makes any difference.

M

[Fatso]

Not sure if have ever noticed this , RRS appears to me to drive the same as my falcon which i think has the same auto box with no issues as above . :confused:

[Graeme]

I try not to be in engine over-run where fuel is cut when I might want to accelerate by touching the throttle just enough to keep fuel flowing as the vehicle slows.

[Redback]

I do the same Graeme, always keep some throttle, it's almost like riding a 2 stroke motorcycle.

Baz.

[101RRS]

Thanks for the comments - yes there are strategies to deal with it and I also use them but time to time you do get caught out. When I have loaned my car to other people, their standard response that my car has something wrong with it and it is dangerous.

I have had a couple of close calls where there was no go and nearly T boned - likewise when power comes on there is the issue of coming close to cars in front. I have a BAS remap so launch is a bit faster than normal and with my remap acceleration is faster in drive than sport so Sport Mode is now somewhat redundant in my car - certainly to 100kph.

Some one has mentioned getting the gearbox software updated - has anyone tried this and does it work.

Cheers

Garry

[roamer]

It is an adaptive gear box,
you may pussy foot around too much, :o
lend it to the 20 year old down the road for a week
and see how it goes when you get it back

:burnrubber::burnrubber:

[TerryO]

It is an adaptive gear box,
you may pussy foot around too much, :o
lend it to the 20 year old down the road for a week
and see how it goes when you get it back

:burnrubber::burnrubber:


Not as silly as it sounds, after I have towed the van some distance especially in hilly terrain where you have to sink the welly a bit when I unhook it there is no hesitation at all, in fact the old girl goes like stink for a number of days.

As for software updates for the auto, our D3 had all the updates done 12 months ago and yes it changed the way the auto changed gear, but it did not get rid of the hesitation.

The answer is simple Garry, drive it like you stole it! ...;)

cheers,
Terry

[Graeme]

Or use your diagnostic tool to reset gearbox calibrations...

[Celtoid]

I'm with Terry.....sink the welly every now and again to let the transmission know what it's connected to....:D

In affect, dropping into sports mode at each busy intersection/roundabout probably achieves a similar thing.

My car was just recently serviced but flipping the shifter has become so second nature to me, I'd have to try not to...just to see how it drives lately. I'll give it a go.

[MichaelJR]

I owned the RRS MY2007 2.7 and now the D4 MY2012 3lt. Both have the same issue. The only way I have found to get around it is, as already suggested, keep the revs up by down shifting as you approach the stop. I was always under the impression this was turbo lag?

[~Rich~]

I try not to be in engine over-run where fuel is cut when I might want to accelerate by touching the throttle just enough to keep fuel flowing as the vehicle slows.

Hi Graeme, does that mean you do left foot braking with the right foot slightly on the accelerator?

[101RRS]

It is an adaptive gear box,
you may pussy foot around too much, :o
lend it to the 20 year old down the road for a week
and see how it goes when you get it back

:burnrubber::burnrubber:

Makes no difference.

[adzee]

LR have commented stating it shifts down slower to increase fuel efficiency and smooth driving. I see it as a pain cause I drive a Vito everyday and it has good engine braking and assistance from the auto when slowing down, and is ready to go when ever needed. Love the smooth driving but sometimes you just want it to move a little more quickly. :D

[Celtoid]

I owned the RRS MY2007 2.7 and now the D4 MY2012 3lt. Both have the same issue. The only way I have found to get around it is, as already suggested, keep the revs up by down shifting as you approach the stop. I was always under the impression this was turbo lag?

Technically it can't be turbo lag in the 3.0l, as the first turbo produces boost right off idle....supposedly

[Graeme]

Hi Graeme, does that mean you do left foot braking with the right foot slightly on the accelerator?
No, its usually because I do most of the braking early and allow the vehicle to coast the last bit into the intersection or roundabout so can hover between the accelerator and brake.

[Graeme]

Technically it can't be turbo lag in the 3.0l, as the first turbo produces boost right off idle....supposedlyI suspect there's more exhaust pressure for the turbo at idle than at a few revs higher on over-run with a closed throttle and no fuel to combust. That boost is within 500ms of the throttle being opened from idle rather than at idle or on over-run.

[Barryp]

I found that my 2.7 litre LR3 had the lag but have no such issue with my 3 litre RR Sport which has the dual turbos. LR claim 500NM of 600NM of torque available in less than half a second from opening the throttle and mine behaves as per LR specification. I could not believe the difference between the 2.7 litre single turbo engine (very slow pickup) and the 3 litre twin turbo (virtually instantaneous).
Regards
Barryp

[Celtoid]

I suspect there's more exhaust pressure for the turbo at idle than at a few revs higher on over-run with a closed throttle and no fuel to combust. That boost is within 500ms of the throttle being opened from idle rather than at idle or on over-run.

I accept that to be a fact, however if I sit completely stationary and nail it, I'll get a variety of outcomes ranging from instantaneous through to significant lag. So that has to be the box.

I do need to test it again though, as it may have been sorted with the numerous software upgrades that have been updated since the car was released.

[101RRS]

I accept that to be a fact, however if I sit completely stationary and nail it, I'll get a variety of outcomes ranging from instantaneous through to significant lag. So that has to be the box.

I do need to test it again though, as it may have been sorted with the numerous software upgrades that have been updated since the car was released.

I agree - it is gearbox not turbo lag - this is reinforced as the pause issue does not exist when you use Command Shift. If it was turbo lag the issue would then the pregnant pause would still occur. When the bit of turbo lag does show is when you are actually stopped and already in first gear and take off - the initial roll is a little slow until revs build up then full acceleration comes online - typical turbo lag.

Garry

[camel_landy]

...which is why I was curious about your experiences in different TC modes as these will 'tune' various elements of the systems.

If it didn't happen in 'Sand' mode, with the g'box in auto, then it's going to be down to software more than a turbo thing.

M

[101RRS]

Haven't tried it in different TR modes - next time I go out I will see what happens - I assume there is no issue driving on the bitumen win sand mode.

[~Rich~]

I use it quite often, bigger smile!
No problems using it at all.

[camel_landy]

No problem at all but you should find the throttle a little more 'lively'... ;)

M

[101RRS]

Well I drove about 100km around town yesterday and drove the first half in sand mode and the second switching back and forth - to be honest I could not detect any real difference except that when in sand mode it hung onto 5th gear a lot longer before changing into 6th. Still has the pause in Sand mode.

However my engine is mapped and Drive is now quicker that Sport so that may also be the same with sand mode.

If I have bought my car new - it would have spent most of its life at the dealers trying to get this pause fixed - then I suppose with Consumer Affairs trying to get it sorted. It really is not good enough and is dangerous.

On a slightly different aspect part of the trip was to get some Castrol engine oil from the distributor but they only sell it in 20litre drums - good price but I don't want 20 litres at the moment so looks like I will continue to use a synthetic Nulon which is near enough.

Why don't vehicle makers use oils that are commonly available (other than dealers) because most of the required oil that meets all specs rather than just some of the number are just not available in Aust. It seems near enough has to do.

Garry

Garry

[AnD3rew]

If I have bought my car new - it would have spent most of its life at the dealers trying to get this pause fixed - then I suppose with Consumer Affairs trying to get it sorted. It really is not good enough and is dangerous.


Whilst I agree it is sometimes a little annoying, I think you may be slightly overstating it. Once you know the car and drive to is capabilities it is not dangerous unless you drive it dangerously and it's not that big a deal. You do need to be aware of it though and sometimes you might need to wait for a slightly longer gap in the traffic before pulling out.

The lag is nothing like the lag you used to get in an auto D1 300 TDI:) I had a manual one, but I had an auto as a loaner once and was shocked by the lag that used to have.

[adzee]

Completely agree with Andrew, your view of it been dangerous suggests you are driving irresponsibly. As noted you are aware of this very minor delay but hold Land Rover responsible for the events that could occur because if it.


Where is this world heading when we can't take responsibility for our own actions.

[101RRS]

Completely agree with Andrew, your view of it been dangerous suggests you are driving irresponsibly. As noted you are aware of this very minor delay but hold Land Rover responsible for the events that could occur because if it.

Where is this world heading when we can't take responsibility for our own actions.

Nonsense - and I am not the only person to have raised this as a safety issue both here in Aust and in the UK.

When you wait for a break in the traffic and then go to pull out and it dribbles out at 5kph with nothing happening when my old lumbering 101 would have no trouble then it is dangerous - and I am not first to raise the issue.

Garry

[adzee]

It isn't severe enough to cause an accident if you understand the vehicle you're driving and adapt to its characteristics.

[Graeme]

When you wait for a break in the traffic and then go to pull out and it dribbles out at 5kph with nothing happening when my old lumbering 101 would have no trouble then it is dangerous - This is very reminiscent of my 1st TD5 D2 where I was told over and over that it was normal after a multitude of road tests during the warranty period. Eventually I replaced the MAF at my expense after trying one from a used vehicle on the dealer's lot.

[SBD4]

This is very reminiscent of my 1st TD5 D2 where I was told over and over that it was normal after a multitude of road tests during the warranty period. Eventually I replaced the MAF at my expense after trying one from a used vehicle on the dealer's lot.

Graeme, did it solve the problem for you?

[Fatso]

My RRS sport must come have from a bad batch or a friday car as it does not pause and sit around when i want it to go , it just goes .

Feelin a bit left out :wasntme:

[Graeme]

Graeme, did it solve the problem for you?
Yes and I knew it as soon as I started the engine then confirmed when I went to take-off with the swapped sensor. I was heading off on a 2K journey that afternoon but the dealer wouldn't allow me to keep the swap even for a couple of days. At the time I didn't know about non-LR suppliers so paid the full retail price when it should have been replaced under warranty during the preceding 2 years / 50K kms.

[Calis]

garry My D4 does the same thing. If Im in a hurry around town with allot of stop start I use command shift. I know its not ideal or a permanent fix but at least the option is there.
I dont like the lag either but I am also a "manual" lover and auto boxes typically drive me crazy at the best of times.

I do agree it can be dangerous when coming up to round-about or the like where you typically get of the throttle to slow up a bit then hit it again with no response for a second.

I've also found I dont seem to be heavy footed enough for the throttle/software they use. Seems where a more immediate and liner power application would happen in a manual in the D4 I have to virtually floor it to the floor with the auto initially.

just some thoughts/musings. :)