Three Point Five Tons.

[mowog]

I towed my big heavy van on the weekend and I was reminded that the Discovery is a bloody fantastic tug. After a few posts here around towing issues I thought I would just say I love my D4 and there is no better 3500kg tug on the planet.

[time2]

Hi Mogwog

I was having some issues with towing a trailer on the weekend. The trailer has an ATM of 2 tonnes and I was trying to fit the rated shackles to the D4 but couldn't get them to fit. Is their a secret method to doing this? How do you fit 3.5T shackles?

Hope you can help.

[mowog]

Maybe I don't have 3.5T shackles. I will have to check now.!

[TerryO]

A dumb question maybe but do you need 3.5 ton shackles or 2 x 1.75 ton shackles?

cheers,
Terry

[gghaggis]

Attach the shackles to the rear recovery point - you may need to juggle it around a little.

Cheers,

Gordon

[robbotd5]

A dumb question maybe but do you need 3.5 ton shackles or 2 x 1.75 ton shackles?

cheers,
Terry

X2. But make sure they are rated gal bow shackles. Bullivants or any lifting equipment suppliers will stock these. I run two 2 tonne bow shackles with my van (ATM 2581kg).
Ps: My D2a does a preaty admirable job at towing our van if I don't say so myself!!
Regards
Robbo

[rufusking]

You're not trying to lift the full weight of the trailer with the shackles, lifting is what "rated shackles" refer to.

I believe the applicable Australian Standard (AS4177.4) is lacking in not clearly stating requirement for shackles. For 3.5 tonne the chain welded to the trailer needs to be 13mm and that's for each chain. 13mm chain has a breaking load over 20 tonne! "Proof" is around half of this. Appears to be a bit of an overkill but I'll except it.

As for the shackle, unless someone can point me to a standard, ADR, state / federal road authority or legislation I would be happy with a shackle that has a material diameter equal to the chain, preferable a "rated" shackle as the material used to manufacture it is held to higher specification and tolerances.

Well that's my two cents worth.

My preference is to cross over the chains under the coupling so if it does let go the coupling / drawbar is carrier by the chains instead of hitting the road and flailing around banging into the vehicle.

[Drafrete]

Hi,

There has been a lot of debate about this on the caravan forum. The upshot seems to be that most states require a given size shackle for a van of given mass. See this thread (http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31110&hilit=rated+shackle+qld)

The clearest commentary seems to be that of QLD, who have a bulletin called "safe towing" found here (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Vehicle%20standards%20and%20modifications/Loads%20and%20towing/Safe%20towing/Safe_towing_guide.pdf)

This guide defines....
Safety chain connections (shackles, pins or bolts)
A suitable shackle is where:
+the shackle is rated and complies with Australian Standard AS 2741-2002 “Shackles”
or other equivalent recognised standard; and
+the break load limit of the shackle is rated at least 1.5 times greater than the ATM of
the trailer

So it seems that you need two shackles of at least 1.5 times the ATM of the trailer (for trailers or caravans under 3.5 tonne).

Which is why the question of what size shackle fits through the eye in the tow pintle is important.

[Tombie]

BLL if I remember correctly is 5 times the WLL.

A 1.5 tonne shackle will not fail till at least 7.5t is applied.

And SA requirements are for rated chain and rated shackles attached to rated points.

[rufusking]

I thought it was closer to 6.

So 3.5 tonnes by 1.5 is breaking strain of 5.25 tonne. Divide by 5 (or 6) gives a working load of 1.05 (or 0.875) tonne.

Those threads are a long and heavy read which certainly highlights the need for some national requirements for this issue.

Thanks all.

[Piddler]

BLL if I remember correctly is 5 times the WLL.

A 1.5 tonne shackle will not fail till at least 7.5t is applied.

And SA requirements are for rated chain and rated shackles attached to rated points.

Yep Correct Tombie
Cheers

[chuck]

I would be very surprised if the chain used on trailers and caravans is any where near rated shackle capacity.

The old way of working out chain capacity was D x D x G x .3

i.e.12mm mild steel chain = 12 x 12 x 30 x .3 = 1296kg WLL or approx 4-5 times that for minimum breaking load.

An 11mm rated shackle has a WLL of 1500kg.

Cheers

[Tombie]

We're not talking lifting here though... Where the safety margin/factor is high.

Were talking BLL... Think snatch straps... ;)

[gghaggis]

To drill through all the technicalities - I think it's safe to say that two shackles, each rated at 1.5 T WLL are more than enough and legally sufficient.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Tombie]

Egg Zackary

[Disco4SE]

Egg Zackary
I used to know an Ed Zackary. Wonder if they are related??

[rufusking]

Reading through the March 2015 edition of the RACV's RoyalAuto magazine I came across this interesting article which I thought I'd share. Timely with the Victoria Labor Day long weekend and Easter coming up.


D-RUMOURS DEBUNKED

Rumours of police in several states clamping down on non-load-rated D-shackles being used to tow caravans, boats and other trailers are just that: rumours.

Many members have raised concerns with RACV that they'd be fined for using what they thought was a common towing hitch component.

The Caravan Industry of Australia has told RACV various police and state transport departments have denied any sort of crackdown.

The CIA also confirms there is no specific requirement for D-shackles such as when attaching a trailer to a tow-bar. The Australian Standard on shackles [AS 2741-20021 only covers their use for lifting].

"Our understanding is that there is currently no regulations requiring shackles used on trailer safety chains to comply with the standard," says Stuart Lamont of the CIA. "However,some state authorities provide guidelines or advice for selecting suitable shackles."
Mr Lamont says the CIA does recommend using shackles that meet AS 2741-2002 to secure safety chains up to 3500kg capacity.

The grade should be 'S' or "6",have a 10mm diameter and a working load limit of 1000kg.

Mr Lamont says either bow-shackles or D-shackles are suitable, noting that the bow design provides greater angular uses.

But there is a lot more to safe towing and caravanning than just the shackles. Go to racv.com.au/mycar and follow the Safe Driving link, where you'll find a safe towing article with dozens of tips and guidelines to better caravanning.

[Redback]

I use a simpler method(rated shackle only, couldn't be arsed working all that maths out) If it has a lifting load of 1500kg, double that for the pulling load limit, can't go wrong.

Baz.

[p38arover]

The weekend before last, I saw a loaded trailer being towed, restrained only by the chains. I could see it as it came around a corner ahead toward me.

I stopped her and told her the trailer was not coupled to the car. The driver seemed oblivious to the trailer swaying behind her.

[LGM]

The weekend before last, I saw a loaded trailer being towed, restrained only by the chains. I could see it as it came around a corner ahead toward me.

I stopped her and told her the trailer was not coupled to the car. The driver seemed oblivious to the trailer swaying behind her.



I don't know about others here but I reckon I see a fair number of 'Oblivious' drivers in my travels!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I bought two rated 1.5T shackles for the van in Tassie,, put them on and drove away. A guy stopped me and said you cant use gal shackles to tow with,, I said they are rated, he then said why dont they have a coloured pin.
so now I have another two rated shackles with pretty red pins,, though after two months of constant use the red paint is starting to wear off !
:wallbash::Rolling:

[Tombie]

And yet you didn't need to do it.... :)

[Don 130]

A test a few years ago by a popular, nameless 4x4 magazine, showed a 4.75 tonne rated shackle, fail at around 30 tonnes.
Just adding it to the mix. I use two 2 tonne rated shackles.
Don

[jonesy63]

... red pins,, though after two months of constant use the red paint is starting to wear off !
:wallbash::Rolling:

In that case, you had better get them galvanised! :wasntme::D:D

[TerryO]

Or paint your original set. ... :angel:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

The original steel shackles were bigger than all the rated ones:p

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I use two 2 tonne rated shackles.
Don

Must be substantial chain Don?

[Boggs]

A mate at work told me he was pulled over in Qld for towing his camper without rated shackles. He was fined $120 on the spot. This is not a regulation in WA.. or at least if it is, no-one enforces it. So disappointing, I thought Queenslanders were sensible, pragmatic folk like us West Aussies and didn't get into such anal regulatory stuff like those silly Victorians who fine you for putting antennae on bull bars!
This guy is actually a qualified rigger and pointed out to the cop that the colour coding means zilch anyway unless the shackle is regularly inspected for wear and tear. I wonder if the cops bother to do this?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

This whole thing is an urban myth,, log onto any caravan website, or was it Bunderburg Police? that refutes all this crap,,

[loanrangie]

No myth , my bil was booked for non rated safety chains on his trailer that he tows with a Merc truck.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[gghaggis]

There is a VAST difference between "rated safety chains" and "rated shackles" .

There is also quite a difference between the sentence "no rated shackles" and "no shackles". Which one is it?

Cheers,

Gordon

[Mick_Marsh]

A mate at work told me he was pulled over in Qld for towing his camper without rated shackles. He was fined $120 on the spot. This is not a regulation in WA.. or at least if it is, no-one enforces it. So disappointing, I thought Queenslanders were sensible, pragmatic folk like us West Aussies and didn't get into such anal regulatory stuff like those silly Victorians who fine you for putting antennae on bull bars!
This guy is actually a qualified rigger and pointed out to the cop that the colour coding means zilch anyway unless the shackle is regularly inspected for wear and tear. I wonder if the cops bother to do this?
That is rubbish. I'll tell you why as soon as I find the Victorian law that applies.
Tell him to take it to court.

[scomac]

A little bit off topic but I saw GGHaggis in "rockcrawl " on the Kwinana FWY north bound towing a nice looking van yesterday. Hope his shackles were rated. :cool:

Sent from my GT-N5120 using AULRO mobile app

[Pedro_The_Swift]

WARNING: The (http://www.boatpoint.com.au/content/boat-news/warning-the-%E2%80%98d%E2%80%99-shackle-scam-in-qld-45284)

[Tombie]

Your Qld mate was scammed, off to the courthouse and he'll walk out without the fine.