Long Standing Jag Engine Start

[101RRS]

I haven't started or turned over my Jag engine for about 5 years - there was never then intention to leave the engine so long so no preservative action was taken, however the car has been in a dry environment in a garage with spark plugs in.

After Christmas I would like to fire the engine up - I am intending to remove the plugs and use a bore scope to check inside the combustion chambers and put some oil inside to assist in lubrication when I turn the engine over. Each cylinder is 440cc so any suggestions on how much oil (and type) to put in the cylinders before I crank it over with the spark plugs out (will have to be turned over on the starter). After I have confirmed the engine will turn with spark plugs out should I put more oil in for the start up.

Based on past experience - because of the layup and the engines very long inlet manifolds the engine will take a fair bit of cranking before it will finally fire so I am keen to have the bores with a bit of oil on them.

Any advice is appreciated.

Cheers

Garry

[Tombie]

Drop engine oil first and replace with cheap clean oil... (+New filter)
Plugs out...
Oil in each pot...
Let sit overnight
More oil in each pot...
Rags over each plug port...
Gently key engine over...
Once happy its turning over, few more cranks with the key.
Should be building oil pressure by then... (check)
** if not entirely sure, remove oil pump and prime with Vas..
Refit plugs and prepare for proper start-up.

To get it firing quicker, get some "Start Ya B_stard" and inject down inlet manifold...

Done this to several vehicles in long term storage

[Hoges]

I did this many years ago on the FIL's 48 model Jag which had been dormant for 10 yrs. It was on blocks, plugs had been left in, couple of squirts of oil in each pot and exhaust and aircleaner blocked and there it sat under dust covers...

First thing we did was change the oil/filter and also replaced the coolant with demineralised water having removed the thermostat first.

Removed the plugs and poured in about in 20ml SAE 30 engine oil per pot and turned the engine through 2 revolutions using a ratchet socket on the harmonic balancer (plugs out!!)

Unplugged the exhaust, removed the aircleaner and squirted couple of generous shots of engine starter (which contains ether) into each carby throat... waited a couple of minutes, gave it another squirt then fired it up... out in the open:D took about 5 seconds to fire then ...after the smoke cleared.... "sweet" The vehicle was stored in a small warehouse which was later torched by bored school kids trying to break in... bybye Jag:mad:
Saved future arguments about who'd "ïnherit" it when he passed away:angel:

[crash]

I know nothing about jag engines, but in older chevy engines the oil pump is driven off of the distributor. You remove the distributor out of the block and get a tool to go down and using a drill prime the oil pump and pump oil into the engine - can this be done to the jag engine? I would do this after changing the oil. It may also be wise to drain the fuel tank first and put in some fresh fuel additional to what has already been mentioned.
I would also be worried about stuck valves.

[101RRS]

Thanks for the the comments - supports what I was thinking. Oil pump will not need priming. The oil has had virtually no use so will leave it until I at least have the engine running.

I have a fresh can of "Start you Bastard" and will use it to help it on its way after I have confirmed everything is turning as it should be. Even when tis engine is running it takes a long time to fire due to the very long inlet pipes between the carbs and head so I am mainly concerned at the amount of time I will have to crank the engine with the cylinder walls not being lubricated however on the basis of information supplied I should be OK.

The tank is out of the car so fresh fuel be taken from a 25l jerry.

Cheers

Garry

[justinc]

hi garry, can we have a sound byte of its start up please? or a vid if that is easier:D

thanks,

jc

[101RRS]

hi garry, can we have a sound byte of its start up please? or a vid if that is easier:D

thanks,

jc

Why? What are you not telling me:o.

Going on past experience there will be a lot of pops and bangs with a a bit of smoking from the exhaust - then when it finally fires there will be a large backfire out the exhaust and the carbies at the same time then thick acrid smoke once it starts running - quite lumpily for about a minute then the smoke will clear and the engine will settle down to the nice smooth idle that V12s are famous for.

Garry

[justinc]

oh, i was hoping to see the odd mouse or other rodent blasted from the tailpipes....:D

no just hanging out to hear a carb v12 running again, such a fantastic engine:)


jc

[101RRS]

hi garry, can we have a sound byte of its start up please? or a vid if that is easier:D

thanks,

jc

Well I finally got around to giving the jag engine a go today - after I rigged up a 25litre (box style) jerry can as the tank.

Actually started a bit easier than I thought it would. The carby slides were a bit sticky as were the float needles as you can see at the start. The passenger side rear carby spewed out petrol the whole time but finally freed up at the end.

The camera audio got over whelmed so the sound is crap and even though the engine in some spots sounds like it is revving its guts out I only took it up to about 2800 rpm, well less than half of its 6500rpm red line. The sound is a bit better over the last minute but is a bit soft (taken on the phone).

Unfortunately the editing software had an issue so I couldn't take out much of the cranking for the first 1.50mins and the engine starts to come to life at about that point. It does idle nice and the view at the end shows it idling smoothly at 500 rpm. I double checked my records and the engine was last run in 2004 - nearly 9 years ago not the 5 I thought it had.

I will see if I can get it out of the garage tomorrow for a once around the block drive to annoy my neighbour who has been working on a earlier 6 cylinder for the last 2 years who point blank refuses to believe I could have it on the road in 2 weeks if I ignored the cosmetics.

After that out comes the engine, gearbox (currently a Commodore 5 litre getrag and rear end and the body will be off to get some repair work done before painting in signal red.

I have owned this car for 30 years (almost to the day) and it will be good to get it back on the road - 2013 is the Year of the Jag.

Forum Posts Album :: output.mp4 video by gazzz21 - Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://vid42.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/output.mp4@@AMEPARAM@@vid42@@AMEPARAM@@42@@AMEPARA M@@e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/output@@AMEPARAM@@mp4

Garry

[Pedro_The_Swift]

sounds awesome Garry:cool::cool:
Thanks for the vid

[justinc]

...How do I press the thanks button twice, or even 3 times??:D

They are a beautiful engine, thanks for indulging us!

JC

[Chops]

G'day Garry, I'm workin with an iPhone, is there a reason I can't view the clip?

Being a lover of all things fine, I'd certainly love to hear her start up.

[101RRS]

Sorry - cannot help with that one. Seems to be working for other people. Maybe you should a more modern phone - maybe one that uses Android :D

I tried it on my Android and it works on my phone but a little message does come up saying that the video is not optimized for mobiles but it still works - just a bit jerky.

Garry

[sheerluck]

What a sound. And in one of the most beautiful cars ever made too.

[101RRS]

Unlike most carby V engines that have the carbies on top of a manifold inside the V, as you can see the jag V12 has its carbies on the outside with very long inlet tubes. It helped get the engine under the bonnet and helps with low torque off idle.

As a result it takes a while for the fuel to get sucked in from the carbies. In everyday use the engine fires up first go as the intake still has remnants of fuel but if left more than a week or so it takes a good 30 secs of cranking to suck fuel in from the carbies. This requires a battery in top condition though on starting this time around I was using a Supercrap 1200cca starting pack and its worked well.

I think the Jag V12 is one of the best mass produced car engines of its era. It was a "saloon" engine rather than a sports car engine and the equivalent V8 car engines in Aust of similar size produced much less power and at much less revs - the Jag has a readline of 6500rpm when the old V8 dinosaurs were lucky to get to 5000rpm.

Like many kids of my time I followed Aussie muscle cars of the late 60s early 70s and can remember seeing a pic of a speedo in Wheels or Modern Motor with a showroom version of the Falcon GTHO Phase 3 sitting on 145 mph across the Hay Plain and the caption "the Fastest 4 door sedan in the world". I later got confused because the series 1 Jaguar XJ12 (a four door sedan) was able to do 150mph so I thought the Ford claims must have just been propaganda. However when the XJ12 came out the GTHO had just ceased production and the XA Falcon released so I guess the claim was fair enough.

Sorry the sound on the video wasn't better because in real life the exhaust is crisp and raspy and not distorted. I do not have the rear resonator on at the moment and as it really dumbs the sound down I think I will leave the rear resonator off.

Garry

[justinc]

Garry, one more bit of info (that I am sure you are privvy to) is that the flexibility is amazing. apparently from 35mph to 150mph ALL in 4th gear is done with ease...show me a V8 of the time that would do that:cool:
I worked with a guy many years back that assured me his HJ monaro 308 TH400 would out pull a V12 XJS etc for top speed.....and driveability...:(

I had nothing to say to such a line. :p

JC

[101RRS]

I will get beaten from the lights by a V6 Dunnydoor and when they think they have me at about 50kph the torque in my engine comes online and they are blown away. By todays standards there is nothing special about the performance of the car but when you look around what was available in the early 70s not much comes close. You needed something like a Ferrari or a GTHO Phase 3 to come close - Porsche did not even have a road car that was a match.

Just remind you mate with the Monaro what Jaguar did to the Holdens and Falcons in the mid 80s in just one outing at Bathurst with their XJS race cars:o. Wiped the smile off their faces.

Well I started it up again today - started on first turn. I soon had a large pool of petrol under it as one of the carby floats stuck open - a few decent taps with the hammer and all fixed. Brakes still work so took it for a spin around the block and dragged my mate away from working on his e-type to remind him that despite what he thought my car does actually work. (in my street we have 2 etypes, a Porshe 911 convertible, a 65 Mustang Coupe, a 65 Mustang convertible, a 2010 Mustang Coupe, my Haflinger and of course all my landies).

Here is my car as bought 30 years ago :)
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/My%20Cars/Asbought-UK.jpg

Here it is this morning :(
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

So the work starts - along with the assembly of the 4.6 Rover engine, work on the front end of the 101, getting the haflinger on the road, digging the ensuite sewer pipe, putting an extra bay on the garage - and on and on.

Garry

[sheerluck]

............Here it is this morning :(
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/2013-01-13_14-53-34_871.jpg
Still looks good to me Garry!



So the work starts - along with the assembly of the 4.6 Rover engine, work on the front end of the 101, getting the haflinger on the road, digging the ensuite sewer pipe, putting an extra bay on the garage - and on and on.

Garry
So that'll take you to Tuesday arvo Garry, what you doing after that? :D