Driving on Sand

[intheozone]

Hi All

This is my First post here so please be gentle on me...

I have had my P38A for 8 months now and other than the gear box dying on me not much else has gone wrong! I love the car and look forward to many more Kms in her.

My Question is that although great on the trails (I embarrassed a couple of Nissan Patrols on the Powerlines track, and had road tyres on) when it comes to sand and the beach the P38A traction control seems to let me down taking away the power to the wheels. I seem to be getting bogged regularly.

Is there an easy way to switch off the traction control?

What tyres do you recommend, I am going get rid of the 18" rims and replace them with 16" I have heard that the Pirelli Scorpion ATR are a good tyre. What do you all think?

P.S. I am a noob so I may not understand some abbreviations

[Keithy P38]

G'day and welcome!

I've found mine to be a legend on sand, often pulling others out!

A few things to remember, tyre pressure is everything on sand. Low is good! The 18" tyres probably not helping much but should still be fine if you let them down. Driving technique also comes into play. If your Rangie begins to dig, I've found that backing off and varying the revs between 1200 and 1700 it'll find traction! More than 2000rpm when she's sinking and it starts to dig quite a bit! I run 20psi on river sand and 15psi on beach sand.

It is not possible to switch off the traction control sadly.

I can't comment on all terrains, I run BFG KM2's on my P38.

Happy 4wding mate!

Keithy

[Pete38]

Hi Keithy.

I have driven on sand in the past, at both Stockton Beach here in NSW and also Fraser Island but not in the P38.

Have you had any problems with traction control over heating on sand? I have never had traction control overheat but there are stories so its made me a little paranoid for sand driving. Rock and mud, well you'd have to be powering on well to overheat in those environments.

I also have KM2's but was ready to buy a 2nd set of rims and put the highway terrains back on for sand. But you find the KM2's OK on sand by the sound of it. Was worried even with airing down that they would still dig holes.

Cheers,Peter.

[Slunnie]

I tend to think if the TC is causing problems (or generally even engaging if you're not going too silly) then your tyre pressures are too high. I find the TC helps in sand at times, especially on potholed tracks, but I cant think of where it hinders when the tyre pressures are right for that sand.

[scarry]

TC should not be the problem.

Low tyre pressures,around 18 to 20 PSI,with 16's,lots of momentum in the soft stuff,try and limit wheel spin if possible.

I did heaps of D2 driving in all types of sand,never had any problems,TC was never an issue.

Experience is also helpful,keep trying & you will learn more.:)

Make sure CDL is in if you have it?

[wayneg]

TC should not be the problem.

Low tyre pressures,around 18 to 20 PSI,with 16's,lots of momentum in the soft stuff,try and limit wheel spin if possible.



X2.

[Slunnie]

Low tyre pressures,around 18 to 20 PSI,with 16's,lots of momentum in the soft stuff,try and limit wheel spin if possible.

Dont be afraid to go lower with 16" rims. You'll still be very happy down to about 14psi. When I'm running Simex I run them down to 10.5psi. I've not had dramas with these pressures in the ruts of Fraser Island, or the softest of sand at Stockton beach. The Land Rover 16" rims are very good at bead retention with the one exception that I know of, and thats when running the BFG AT tyre for some reason.

[mtb_gary]

Inthezone,
I too got briefly stuck in the really soft "fluffy" sand up at Lancelin a few weeks back. I had only planned on spendin 30-45 minutes or so before lunch in the dunes and along a couple of tracks showing a couple of Dutch relatives around. I had 18" wheels with scorpion Zero road tyres on, tread is at its minimum but more importantly I had 45psi all round. The sane as your experience TC kicked in and you feel like the sand has sapped all the cars power. Simple solution, drop the tyre pressure. I dropped back to around 20 psi, cleared the sand from directly in front of the wheels and drove off. I normally have maxxis bighorns 265/75/16 when heading off road and run them at 15 psi, they bag up well and haven't had any problems to date. They are also easier on the pocket than km2's and the pirelli's. the main drawback, they are pretty noisy on the bitumen so you need to turn up the sound system :D.
Gary

[p38oncoils]

I tend to think if the TC is causing problems (or generally even engaging if you're not going too silly) then your tyre pressures are too high. I find the TC helps in sand at times, especially on potholed tracks, but I cant think of where it hinders when the tyre pressures are right for that sand.

I fully agree with the above. I use 14psi in the tyres on soft beach sand and with the added footprint of the tyres you shouldn't have many issues in soft sand - provided you drive it according to the conditions. There are a number of good videos on Youtube that are a good introduction to sand driving.

[redandy3575]

Not too much to add here except be carefull when lowering tyre pressures with your 18 inch wheels, the low profile doesn't like it when going below 20 pounds, as its not designed for such low pressure and you can easily pinch the sidewalls of the tyre up agains your rim destroying the tyre completely if you happen to hit a burried log, rock or even a firm mount of sand. Not to mention getting sand wedged in between the rim and beads causing air to escape. If I were you, I'd ditch the 18 inch rims in favour for the 16" along with a good set of all terrains. AT's have a much stronger tyre sidewall construction, and are less likely to puncture from twigs and stuff burried in the sand. Plus they handle the lower pressure of around 14 PSI without too many issues and bag out better to float over the sand, rather that plowing through it. You probably would have already noticed your 18" don't bag out anywhere near as much due to the lesser tyre wall. 18" rims are really mostly for highway comfort and nothing more. I'm getting rid of mine as I do a fair amount of four wheel driving, therefor have no need for the 18" rims. And AT's give you an good balance of both. Off-course I do have my mud terrain as well for the serious stuff.

Hope this helps.

[benji]

I know what you mean about low pressures on Fraser. We had to go down to 8 in front and 10 in the rear to get through, as two underpowered yotas got stuck up the top of North Ngkala Rocks.

Inthezone, I reckon there's no better offroading that on sand; there's nothng better than driving down a beach with bare feet and the windows open.

We've done heaps of sand driving (mostly in the Vic deserts and SA beaches) with rear traction controll and it's never hindered me once. I tend to feel in undulating sand tracks it allows you to feed a little more power on than with an open diff as it limits wheel spin, like Champaign Rocks, or some of the dunes on the Vic / SA border track where people have sunk their boot in and spun out a hole.

We've had a pretty good run with the BFG AT's, running 16 on sand we've never had one come off a rim, or sand in the rim; though I have noticed that they will 'walk' around the rim at anything lower than 18. (16 inch rims though)

[scarry]

My son has been on Fraser island over the holiday break,and the Puma had an intermittent fault which brought up the TC/ABS warning lights, disabling the TC/ABS intermittently.The problem has not yet been rectified.

While driving in soft sand without the TC operating,the vehicle was pretty hopeless compared with when the TC was operational.CDL in all the time.

In fact,has mate in a stock GU(with stock rear LSD) was better in the sand than the Puma with the TC disabled.Both vehicles were running KM2's at 20 psi.

This proves, once again, that TC is no hindrance at all in soft sand,in fact it helps considerably.

I also found the D2 i had, had no problems in soft sand,although i didn't ever have the TC disabled.

[boofdtl]

All the replys that have been posted are right just remember you still can do every thing right and still bog it this is what i do when i am on the sand..

1 tyre pressures
2 Walk a bit of the sand first just to see and look were other people have gone before right or wrong i think it helps
3 Dont be afriad to play with tyre pressures
4 Make sure beer is cold so if you get help you have a cold beer as thanks
5 Most of all have fun i love sand driving hate cleaning the 4wd out after the sand....

Have fun boof

[scarry]

All the replys that have been posted are right just remember you still can do every thing right and still bog it this is what i do when i am on the sand..

1 tyre pressures
2 Walk a bit of the sand first just to see and look were other people have gone before right or wrong i think it helps
3 Dont be afriad to play with tyre pressures
4 Make sure beer is cold so if you get help you have a cold beer as thanks
5 Most of all have fun i love sand driving hate cleaning the 4wd out after the sand....

Have fun boof

You forgot one thing:p

And a snatch strap,couple of rated shackles,for when you come across a jap thing stuck in the middle of the track:D;)

I love driving on the sand as well,lots of fun,but i just hate what the salt does to the vehicle,which is why the D4 has not been on the beach yet.
Yes i know you can get sand not near the beach,but i haven't had time to get to it yet.

[intheozone]

Cheers for all the advice guys

I have been out and bought some 16" rims and BFG KM2 Tyres. What a difference. Sand is a walk in the park now just got back from an awesome weekend in the dunes from two Rocks to Moore River. The New tyres also great on the trails. big grin from ear to ear.

[Keithy P38]

That's the go mate!

Have never ever heard a bad report on the mighty KM2's off road!

[wayneg]

Cheers for all the advice guys

I have been out and bought some 16" rims and BFG KM2 Tyres. What a difference. Sand is a walk in the park now just got back from an awesome weekend in the dunes from two Rocks to Moore River. The New tyres also great on the trails. big grin from ear to ear.

Are you going to be joining us on the Easter weekend trip to Moore. See up coming trips

[mtb_gary]

Are you going to be joining us on the Easter weekend trip to Moore. See up coming trips

Hi Wayne

I won't be able to join you on the Easter trip due to family coming over from Melbourne for a holiday. But where is the up coming trips calendar?

Gary
Ps is that your p38 fuse box on gumtree?

[wayneg]

Yes the fusebox was mine, A mate sent it over from the UK for me but even after specific instructions he still managed to get the wrong one. It Sold very quickly.
If you look at the WA section at the start there is a link to Up coming trips,
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/wa-aulroians-group/

There was a lot of upset a few years ago after the format for posting new trips was enforced. The WA section pretty much went flat for trips after there being at least one a month. All before was discussed and planned within the WA section were it was easily found. The only concession after much complaint was to add the link to the general trips section. Also keep a look out on the - W4 CHALLENGE (http://w4challenge.com/) website for upcoming events

[mtb_gary]

Thanks Wayne
The site is now bookmarked.
Gary

[intheozone]

Sorry to miss the trip I hope you all had a good time.

I headed to Dwellingup and my rear right airbag went. Ended up getting a tow on a flat bed home as the tyres were getting shredded on the bump stops. Now... Where to get a new airbag???

[Keithy P38]

Upgrade the lot with Gen III's for $1k to your door and excellent after-sales support direct from Arnotts. Plus a dramatically better ride!

Keep your stock ones for emergency spares.

Changing them gives you bonding time with your suspension. Had I changed one prior to popping an original I would have had a comfortable trip home! I could change one in 10mins or less in the bush if I had to now.

Cheers
Keithy