Steering brakes on a Defender

[wrinklearthur]

I would like to try steering brakes in my Defender, fitted to the back axle only and with a toggle lever for control beside the handbrake.

To actuate the brake it could be done by using the type of lever that the Volkswagen sand buggies use.
Or if I can find a rear calliper that is a direct swap for the Land rover one from a car that has a handbrake cable fitted to it's calliper and set it up with two cables running back from the toggle lever.

Locker work well in a straight line, but don't help much when climbing around sharp corner's and Tasmania has a lot of bush track's like that .

On my tractor ( MF165 ) , I used the turning brakes a lot, but I hardly ever use the diff lock when working around home, to the point that I have to be careful and watchout that it hasn't started to seize and after engaging the diff lock, it then doesn't stick on.

[123rover50]

Good idea Arthur. I did this on my first car a 29 Model A back in the early 60,s. Could not afford a Landy then. The park brake was on separate shoes on the back wheel so I had two hand brake levers one for each side.
Worked well.
Will be watching this with interest.
Keith

[mick88]

Arthur I know what you mean by the diff lock not engaging!
We have a vineyard and many a time in past years when we worked the soil a lot I would have a need to engage the diff lock.....but when you get to the end of the row and have a need to turn sharp and the bloody thing hasn't disengaged it makes for some interesting moments!

Cheers, Mick.

[Reads90]

Lots of the winch challange defenders in the Uk have them.

That are know as fiddle brakes. Can break one rear wheel to make turn a lot tighter

Do a search for fiddle brakes on defenders and you will find some details on them and how it is done.

[wrinklearthur]

Lots of the winch challange defenders in the Uk have them.
That are know as fiddle brakes. Can break one rear wheel to make turn a lot tighter
Fiddle brakes !!! :D I have Google searched and hardly found a thing, knowing the name and hey presto there it all is, so thanks for that tip.


Do a search for fiddle brakes on defenders and you will find some details on them and how it is done.

I have read a couple of articals and think if the vehicle that these turning brake's is to be fitted to is to remain registered, then the original braking system shouldn't be interfered with and the turning brakes should be a separate system.
I will read some more.
.

[wrinklearthur]

Found this warning and it makes sense to me.

Ref; Land Rover Owner • View topic - What are these 2 levers for? (http://www.lro.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84284&start=10)


Re: What are these 2 levers for?
by mmgemini » Fri 19 Oct 2012 1:55 pm
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Depending how these are plummed in DON'T ever tough the footbrake and handbrake together, otherwise the barkes will lock on
.

[wrinklearthur]

Arthur I know what you mean by the diff lock not engaging!
We have a vineyard and many a time in past years when we worked the soil a lot I would have a need to engage the diff lock.....but when you get to the end of the row and have a need to turn sharp and the bloody thing hasn't disengaged it makes for some interesting moments!

That reminds me, I pressure washed the MF a couple of days ago.
I had better squirt some CRC into the joint where the diff lock shaft enters the housing.
.

[goingbush]

easy. put one of these on each brake. flick appropriate switches and put foot on brake

Disc Brake Lock Out Valve- 11253a | Disc Brake Lockout Soleniod & Misc | Tie Down Eng | TrailerPartsDepot.com (http://www.trailerpartsdepot.com/itemdesc.asp?Ic=11253A)

i used to have one to lock out rear brakes to do burnouts, shame on me.

[101 Ron]

A detroit locker in the rear will give you traction on tight turns when you need it without wanting to go straight ahead or not unlocking like a normal manual locker.
You will need to up grade the drive axles if fitted.

[Reads90]

A detroit locker in the rear will give you traction on tight turns when you need it without wanting to go straight ahead or not unlocking like a normal manual locker.
You will need to up grade the drive axles if fitted.

Mm disagree seen personal far too many times in sand and mud where a Detroit and turetrack will STOP the car from turning as it just pushes the car forward. This was the main reason they were never used in winch challenging in the uk as you could not turn them of like an ARB or Maxi Drive locker. Seen people get really really stuck and have to be towed out jut because of a Detroit and then see a car with nothing just drive straight around an obsitcal with ease.

The fiddle brake I have seen over my time on land rovers have been totally separate from the original brake system. Normally another set of calapers put on each rear disc with a separate weld on mounts and separate system.

Ali

[wrinklearthur]

Mm disagree seen personal far too many times in sand and mud where a Detroit and turetrack will STOP the car from turning as it just pushes the car forward. This was the main reason they were never used in winch challenging in the uk as you could not turn them of like an ARB or Maxi Drive locker. Seen people get really really stuck and have to be towed out just because of a Detroit and then see a car with nothing just drive straight around an obstacle with ease.

That's been my impression also, the Truetrac Eaton locker seems to work a bit better in that regards.


The fiddle brake I have seen over my time on land rovers have been totally separate from the original brake system. Normally another set of calipers put on each rear disc with a separate weld on mounts and separate system.

I would like to look at a bracket that is used to fit disc brakes to the rear of a drum braked Defender, then see what is available in electrically operated disc calipers for trailers.
.

[101 Ron]

Mm disagree seen personal far too many times in sand and mud where a Detroit and turetrack will STOP the car from turning as it just pushes the car forward. This was the main reason they were never used in winch challenging in the uk as you could not turn them of like an ARB or Maxi Drive locker. Seen people get really really stuck and have to be towed out jut because of a Detroit and then see a car with nothing just drive straight around an obsitcal with ease.

The fiddle brake I have seen over my time on land rovers have been totally separate from the original brake system. Normally another set of calapers put on each rear disc with a separate weld on mounts and separate system.

Ali

We all have different views and every one to their own.
I have found the opposite and the detroit shines in snow/ mud with the need to do tight turns.
The newer soft lockers are much improved on older types.

[Reads90]

We all have different views and every one to their own.
I have found the opposite and the detroit shines in snow/ mud with the need to do tight turns.
The newer soft lockers are much improved on older types.

Time frame might be the difference. Most of my experience with fiddle brakes and Detroit lockers is from 10-15 year ago

[bee utey]

I built a couple of sets of hydraulic turning brakes as a lad when I was into dune buggies. A couple of modified trailer brake cylinders with levers operate the standard rear wheel brakes, one for each side, i.e. you need two brake lines and flex hoses to the rear axle assembly. The foot brake is then plumbed via a tee piece to the reservoir inlet ports of each trailer cylinder. The reservoirs are cut off and the inlet nipple is drilled into the casting opposite the reservoir inlet port. A stout stop prevents foot brake pressure popping out the trailer brake pistons. The foot brake overrides the hand lever, indeed it pulls it out of your hand. There is no way the brakes can lock on with either lever or pedal. You bleed the system the normal way, by pedal.

If I dig around the back shed the remains of one may still be there for piccy purposes.