Closer than they realise

[Bushie]

At the 33 sec mark maybe someone on this forum had a closer call than they realise.

Pretty sure all the expletives have been bleeped out.

Warning as truckie captures astounding overtake video | Toowoomba Chronicle (http://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/warning-truckie-captures-astounding-overtake-video/1696616/)


Martyn

[Ferret]

Disappointing how easily people dismiss their own stupidity, especially when its others they put at risk.

[MichaelJR]

Can't regulate stupidity unfortunately!!!

[Mick_Marsh]

Funny thing is, according to the letter of the law, the person towing the camper is at fault for failing to give way whilst merging.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/157842-merging-5.html#post1749147

[Ausfree]

As a bus driver I see similiar situations involving cars all the time. You are in the left hand lane on a double lane road and a car is hanging back off you in the middle lane, you are nearing the end of the two lanes and you put your blinker on to merge, when the driver of the car,at the last minute decides to accelerate past you just as the lanes merge.;) Sheer stupidity,the car driver has had at least 500 metres to pass you!!:mad:

That video shown above shows how dangerous it can be!!:(

[Chops]

Can someone post a link that doesn't require logging in please? :D

[Debacle]

Funny thing is, according to the letter of the law, the person towing the camper is at fault for failing to give way whilst merging.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/157842-merging-5.html#post1749147

Maybe, but you can only overtake when safe to do so. The overtaking truck had to cross double lines to do his overtaking. That isn't safe. It didn't achieve anything for him as he just sat behind more traffic, but a couple of places up in the queue.

He's an accident going someplace to happen.

[Mick_Marsh]

Can someone post a link that doesn't require logging in please? :D
Logging in to where?
I didn't have a problem. Mind you, you will have to scroll down the page a little.

[dullbird]

As a bus driver I see similiar situations involving cars all the time. You are in the left hand lane on a double lane road and a car is hanging back off you in the middle lane, you are nearing the end of the two lanes and you put your blinker on to merge, when the driver of the car,at the last minute decides to accelerate past you just as the lanes merge.;) Sheer stupidity,the car driver has had at least 500 metres to pass you!!:mad:

That video shown above shows how dangerous it can be!!:(

unfortunately I come across A LOT of bus drivers that seem to think its OK to pull out in to traffic when they have cars litterally along side them!! it appears to be I'm bigger than you and I'm coming whether you like it or not, I see this day in and day out and it has happened to me on more than one occasion, in fact it happened to me I was up almost level with the bus drivers cab and he pulled out pushing me in to oncoming traffic to avoid him, I personally think bus drivers are some of the worst on the road.

[Mick_Marsh]

Maybe, but you can only overtake when safe to do so. The overtaking truck had to cross double lines to do his overtaking. That isn't safe. It didn't achieve anything for him as he just sat behind more traffic, but a couple of places up in the queue.

He's an accident going someplace to happen.
Ahh! But, he wasn't overtaking. He was forced onto the other side of the road to avoid a collision with the fellow towing the camper who, by law, should have given way to him.

It's amazing what you pick up when you read the road rules. The printed road rules.

[dullbird]

I think he would of still been in the wrong for trying to pass two indicating vehicles, you say that he had to go in to oncoming traffic to avoid a collison I would say his dangerous driving could of potentially been the cause of a collision and had he hit them I'm sure he would of been charged for failing to avoid a collision.

[Ausfree]

unfortunately I come across A LOT of bus drivers that seem to think its OK to pull out in to traffic when they have cars litterally along side them!! it appears to be I'm bigger than you and I'm coming whether you like it or not, I see this day in and day out and it has happened to me on more than one occasion, in fact it happened to me I was up almost level with the bus drivers cab and he pulled out pushing me in to oncoming traffic to avoid him, I personally think bus drivers are some of the worst on the road. Sorry you feel that way, Dullbird, there are bad drivers in all industries, bus/truck/cabbie etc. If you are in a built up area and a bus is pulling out from a bustop, it has right of way. Now, it only has right of way if you are BEHIND the bus, if you are LEVEL with the bus it does not have right of way.:D
There are rogue bus drivers out there too, particularly in the Sydney area. I have seen them, many a time I have had to swerve because a bus suddenly pulls out from a bustop.:mad:

I drive in a country area, so we do not have the timetable pressures that Sydney drivers have, because of heavy traffic. I would hate to be a bus driver in Sydney:D:D


Merry Christmas to you and I hope Santa was good to you!!!:D:D:D

[Debacle]

Ahh! But, he wasn't overtaking. He was forced onto the other side of the road to avoid a collision with the fellow towing the camper who, by law, should have given way to him.

It's amazing what you pick up when you read the road rules. The printed road rules.

Yes, I can read, I do know what the road rules are in that situation, but were his actions safe. If he had of had a head on collision with a car coming the other way there would have been fatalities most likely and he was on the wrong side of the road at the time. He was not forced into the situation, he failed to read the conditions ahead and plan his driving.

[dullbird]

Sorry you feel that way, Dullbird, there are bad drivers in all industries, bus/truck/cabbie etc. If you are in a built up area and a bus is pulling out from a bustop, it has right of way. Now, it only has right of way if you are BEHIND the bus, if you are LEVEL with the bus it does not have right of way.:D
There are rogue bus drivers out there too, particularly in the Sydney area. I have seen them, many a time I have had to swerve because a bus suddenly pulls out from a bustop.:mad:

I drive in a country area, so we do not have the timetable pressures that Sydney drivers have, because of heavy traffic. I would hate to be a bus driver in Sydney:D:D


Merry Christmas to you and I hope Santa was good to you!!!:D:D:D

Mate you got it in one..it is the sydney buses generally around the Bankstown area and I'm sure a lot of it is to keep to timetables..especially at peak hour, still...they not gunna keep to their timetable if they kill someone.

Merry Christmas to you too mate an Apologise for the Mass generlisation I'm sure not ALL bus drivers are bad, just the ones on my route to work:D

[Ausfree]

Mate you got it in one..it is the sydney buses generally around the Bankstown area and I'm sure a lot of it is to keep to timetables..especially at peak hour, still...they not gunna keep to their timetable if they kill someone.

Merry Christmas to you too mate an Apologise for the Mass generlisation I'm sure not ALL bus drivers are bad, just the ones on my route to work:D
Couldn't agree more, I used to drive to Sydney airport quite a lot in my previous job, I noticed around the Chatswood area, you had to be very wary of buses suddenly pulling out from bustops.:D Apologies not necessary as I can understand your frustration!!:D

[Rusnut]

unfortunately I come across A LOT of bus drivers that seem to think its OK to pull out in to traffic when they have cars litterally along side them!! it appears to be I'm bigger than you and I'm coming whether you like it or not, I see this day in and day out and it has happened to me on more than one occasion, in fact it happened to me I was up almost level with the bus drivers cab and he pulled out pushing me in to oncoming traffic to avoid him, I personally think bus drivers are some of the worst on the road.
Like a BUS! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsNNLd-qUt0&feature=youtu.be)

[dullbird]

Like a BUS! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsNNLd-qUt0&feature=youtu.be)

that was gold!!:D...

he nearly wiped out that women with his bow wave:D

[uninformed]

Funny thing is, according to the letter of the law, the person towing the camper is at fault for failing to give way whilst merging.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/157842-merging-5.html#post1749147

The Video footage would prove him in the wrong. It is stated to keep left unless OVERTAKING. Overtaking has to be done safetly, this was not. Ontop of that when the Van was merging he was well in front of stupid truckie.

You can bang on about letter of the law and argue for the sake of being technically right......but The guy is a knob end of story.

[justinc]

i nearly got taken out on the newell once exactly like that, was trying to remerge and the truck next to me was accelerating to prevent me entering the lane, . i was towing a caravan and had the rangie pegged out and basically almost passed the point of no return so had to slam on the brakes to avoid certain death.

scum:mad: nearly killed us and then listened to him laughing and mouthing off to his colleagues about pushing these (Expletives) caravan towing tourists out of the way over the UHF.

I have the utmost contempt for these idiots. Time and again you see and hear these incidents, the industry is in need of an overhaul. I avoid the Newell now, much better views to be had too closer to the coast, or the New England.

JC

[UncleHo]

He was halfway over the double whites when he overtook John Coutts's truck,at 007secs and stayed over well past 14 secs 'Driving in a Manner Dangerious" used to be the charge :(

Just goes to show that dash cams are a usefull tool,because if he had of got the car and van the following truck would have had nowhere to go.

[Disco44]

I think he would of still been in the wrong for trying to pass two indicating vehicles, you say that he had to go in to oncoming traffic to avoid a collison I would say his dangerous driving could of potentially been the cause of a collision and had he hit them I'm sure he would of been charged for failing to avoid a collision.

His size their size he would have killed someone, the charge would have been" Dangerous driving causing death".He is nothing but a cowboy and a dangerous one at that.His type should never be behind a wheel of any sort ,I wonder if someone got his number.

[RichardK]

In WA, as I understand it, the person in front at the merging lanes has right of way, that truck driver is an accident waiting to happen

[Mick_Marsh]

In WA, as I understand it, the person in front at the merging lanes has right of way, that truck driver is an accident waiting to happen
Interesting. WA appears to have removed the rule. They only have the other one.
http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/pco/prod/FileStore.nsf/Documents/MRDocument:22182P/$FILE/RoadTrfcCd2000_03-d0-00.pdf?OpenElement
refer rule 128

Rule 149 in Vic.
http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://www.gazette.vic.gov.au/gazette/Gazettes1999/GG1999P002.pdf&sa=U&ei=IjnaUN_gGvGXiAf-84C4BA&ved=0CDMQFjAE&usg=AFQjCNEwYU0GYELZ8le1AP0gNPIzAxWlmQ

What is missing in the Vic. rules is this (see page 45):
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/94D911A9-4D79-4E9C-8496-64929A7A9C8B/0/DrivinginVictoriawholedoc3.pdf

I shall ask Vicroads to clarify.

[numpty]

I agree with a previous poster, the bloke is a knob head. No due care whatsoever.

Funny that there is a thread on here about P platers being bad drivers, as this goes to prove they have no mortgage on dangerous incompetence.

[rangieman]

I notice people are blaming everyone at the moment ect old drivers , p Platers and truck drivers , In my time of driving dear i say 30 + years the standard has dropped right off no matter who or what is driving:cool: , I had a very similar experience just last week on the western Hwy just west of Ballarat on my way back from SA in a semi at about 6 am , I was in a road works zone so 40 k was the limit going up hill i was in the left lane just near the end about too merge back when not 1 but 2 overnighter semis did the same too me I braked heaverly had to shuffle a few gears , I did say a few choice words over the radio in anger , What did these 2 ******* say back to me nothing ! They just kept on their merry way , i did wonder if i had gone off the road would they have stopped i reckon not :eek:

[Mick_Marsh]

I notice people are blaming everyone at the moment ect old drivers , p Platers and truck drivers , In my time of driving dear i say 30 + years the standard has dropped right off no matter who or what is driving:cool: , I had a very similar experience just last week on the western Hwy just west of Ballarat on my way back from SA in a semi at about 6 am , I was in a road works zone so 40 k was the limit going up hill i was in the left lane just near the end about too merge back when not 1 but 2 overnighter semis did the same too me I braked heaverly had to shuffle a few gears , I did say a few choice words over the radio in anger , What did these 2 ******* say back to me nothing ! They just kept on their merry way , i did wonder if i had gone off the road would they have stopped i reckon not :eek:There are more than a few cowboys on that road between Adelaide and Melbourne. I was run off the road by a Finemores truck in much the same way as shown on the original post on this thread. I stopped at Nhill for lunch and, whilst I was at the boot of the car, a fellow in a Finemores shirt came over and started abusing me and threatening to get the police to breath test me. I suggested we both go to the police station and get tested for alcohol and drugs.
By this time, others who had stopped for lunch had realised what was going on. A few wandered over and confronted the Finemores driver. It appeared I was not the only victim of this cowboys behavoir.
The Finemore driver backed down and retreated quickly.
I was surprised as Finemore drivers were usually very good drivers.

[superquag]

Does this rule (or similar) apply over there?

"...110. Keeping a minimum distance between long vehicles
(1) In this regulation —
long vehicle means a vehicle or combination 7.5 m or more in
length, inclusive of any projection and of its load;
required distance, for a long vehicle outside a built-up area,
means 200 m.
(2) The driver of a long vehicle when following another long
vehicle shall, wherever conditions permit, keep the vehicle not
less than the required distance behind the other vehicle unless
the driver is — blah blah two lanes etc, all the obvious stuff "

- Assuming that a car & caravan meets the '7.5metre' specification and the following truck also over 7.5 metres

Not excusing the Very Important Truck Driver... but even a 150 metre gap may have encouraged our idiot to slot in-between them, instead of risking cleaning up that oncoming car.
Then he could have picked the next available safe spot to cross double white lines and pass the pesky Pensioners...

In WA, AFAIK,,, the vehicle in front (two lanes, either merging or land-change) has right of way. - Any part of the vehicle that is in front of the other one... which means our favourite fool loses again.:mad:

[RichardK]

Further to my previous post, I wonder if the caravan towing car had been a police patrol car (no caravan) whether the truckie would have driven in this manner?...I suspect not.......then why do it when no police vehicle around? Some drivers are meatheads

[rangieman]

There are more than a few cowboys on that road between Adelaide and Melbourne. I was run off the road by a Finemores truck in much the same way as shown on the original post on this thread. I stopped at Nhill for lunch and, whilst I was at the boot of the car, a fellow in a Finemores shirt came over and started abusing me and threatening to get the police to breath test me. I suggested we both go to the police station and get tested for alcohol and drugs.
By this time, others who had stopped for lunch had realised what was going on. A few wandered over and confronted the Finemores driver. It appeared I was not the only victim of this cowboys behavoir.
The Finemore driver backed down and retreated quickly.
I was surprised as Finemore drivers were usually very good drivers.
No not the same company but another well known company:angel: , I did do a stint in 80,s as a interstate driver i was young and sorry to say they were way more polite and helpfull back then , There was a element of cowboys back then and they were all overnighters , I remember if you were half way between Melb and Syd about 2 in the morning id just pull over as the tricks these cowboys pulled was just stupidity and out right dangerous it seems the mentality of the overnighters has not changed at all as they all seem very young and unexperienced but still wear blue singlets and thongs :wasntme:.

I did notice with my recent stint of interstate travels no one warns you over the radio of hazzards ahead such as accidents or police which is very sad to say , I had to keep checking my UHF to make sure it was on as it was so quiet:eek:

[cewilson]

In relation to the incident that fella overtaking was plain stupid. He failed to read the road ahead and shouldn't be in any sort of a vehicle, never mind 40+ ton.

As for general road behaviour I will agree that the standard has dropped. Generally I find most motorists quite courteous however I have found that there are numerous more (what I call) incompetent people behind the wheel. Coupled with a more aggressive nature now days and it can get quite dangerous.

What is even more scarier is the amount of men down this way getting involved in road rage with their family in the car. I waved a car past me today (I was in a loaded semi) and for some reason he must have taken it as something else, because he gave me a huge mouthful and then a moment later he slammed on the brakes right in front of me.

Thankfully I had a good gap between us, but imagine if I hadn't. All I could see was his young fella through the back window of his car. I wonder if it'd be all worth it (to him) if I had of hit him and hurt his family.....I'd think now.

Courtesy and patience go a long long way.

[FFR]

In WA, AFAIK,,, the vehicle in front (two lanes, either merging or land-change) has right of way. - Any part of the vehicle that is in front of the other one...

Hi,

in Spain, during the last 10 years, they have been repainting the roads so, in case of merging lanes, the guy in the slow lane has the right of way, while the guy in the fast lane sees how his lane becomes narrower and narrower... and has to accomodate his driving to the drivers in the slow lane. This is very convenient for truckies (limit in freeways 90 km/h, conventional roads with wide shoulders 80 km/h, conventional roads without shoulders 70 km/h) as they stay in the slow lane knowing that, regardless of the number of lanes available, their lane has the right of way.

Carlos

[cewilson]

They are trying similar down here in regards to speed limits. The trial is for minor bitumen roads to be a 90km/h zone, and gravel roads a 80km/h zone.

I understand the theory behind it, but it seems they are reacting to the degrading of skills instead of attacking the real problem behind it all.

I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet by any means, but most of these roads they are changing I comfortably sit on 100km/h in a variety of different vehicles. People adjust their speed automatically when they don't feel comfortable, in particular for weather changes.

As an example if I head up to the lakes there have been plenty of times when I've been doing 20km/h in sections where I regularly do 100km/h.

I believe driver education and in particular attitude are a major issue at the moment.



Lastly when I was 18/19 years old I was a ratbag too. I was shown 3 albums of photographs from the accident investigation policeman - I can tell you that changed the way I thought quicker than anything else ever did.

[slug_burner]

The truck driver with the stepped trailer was an idiot. I hope that they got his plate number and he gets a visit from the boys (and girls) in blue.

as cewilson says, a look at some accident scenes and probably a visit to the wards where the survivors have to learn how to drive a wheelchair would help in bringing your youthful invincibility back to reality.

[bob10]

I did notice with my recent stint of interstate travels no one warns you over the radio of hazzards ahead such as accidents or police which is very sad to say , I had to keep checking my UHF to make sure it was on as it was so quiet:eek:
I have to say, not like that on the roads north from here, either up the highway or west, on the way to the Gulf. The only annoying thing, sometimes, are the immature jerks who make animal noises, etc, but normally the truckies announce where the 'flash for cash' is, and any accidents. And any water over the road. However, the language is colourful, it would educate any children travelling, Bob

[Disco44]

There are more than a few cowboys on that road between Adelaide and Melbourne. I was run off the road by a Finemores truck in much the same way as shown on the original post on this thread. I stopped at Nhill for lunch and, whilst I was at the boot of the car, a fellow in a Finemores shirt came over and started abusing me and threatening to get the police to breath test me. I suggested we both go to the police station and get tested for alcohol and drugs.
By this time, others who had stopped for lunch had realised what was going on. A few wandered over and confronted the Finemores driver. It appeared I was not the only victim of this cowboys behavoir.
The Finemore driver backed down and retreated quickly.
I was surprised as Finemore drivers were usually very good drivers.

Dob the bastard in to the company.There is a phone number on the back of the vehicle.Steering wheel attendants like him should not be driving.My thoughts,
John

[Sparksdisco]

I have to say, not like that on the roads north from here, either up the highway or west, on the way to the Gulf. The only annoying thing, sometimes, are the immature jerks who make animal noises, etc, but normally the truckies announce where the 'flash for cash' is, and any accidents. And any water over the road. However, the language is colourful, it would educate any children travelling, Bob

same up here.

The CB has saved my life a few times when we have came back from broome in the dark.
There has been cows all across he road and if it wasesnt for the truckie calling it in i would say i would not be typing this now:(

Also the call out the wide loads. and if there are any wobbleies:p around.

[cewilson]

We run channel 14 down here, and other companies run channel 20 or 24. But once I step away from the depot I always hit scan for that reason. I just have channel 2 (repeater) blocked off because of the 'no life' brigade sitting at home carrying on - unless I want a laugh :)

[Mick_Marsh]

Dob the bastard in to the company.There is a phone number on the back of the vehicle.Steering wheel attendants like him should not be driving.My thoughts,
John
Not worth the effort. Without evidence, the company backs their driver, as they should.
The driver will deny the incident ever took place. Ask me how I know?

The phone number on the back is just spin.

My advice to all, get a good quality high resolution in car camera.

[BigJon]

While that was an atrocious piece of driving by the truck driver it possibly wasn't much better by the van tower.

Time and time again I see people in cars driving at 5 - 10 kph below the speed limit only to speed up to 5 - 10 kph over the speed limit when an overtaking lane opens up. I am sure it would be extremely frustrating for the driver of a truck which is limited to 100kph.

I am also disturbed by the number of posters in this thread who are ignorant of some basic road rules.

If you have to cross dotted lines to merge then your lane is ending and you MUST GIVE WAY. No ifs, buts or maybes.
If the lane ends and there are no dotted lines then the vehicle behind must give way.

[Mick_Marsh]

If you have to cross dotted lines to merge then your lane is ending and you MUST GIVE WAY. No ifs, buts or maybes.
A point that seems to be lost on most.

[dullbird]

regardless of the road rules...you MUST make every attempt to avoid a collision..

I think thats a point others seem to be missing.

who is to say that the caravan didn't see the truck coming? hence why he was half on half off the road...that truck should not of attempted to pass both vehicles..when their lane was ending

he failed to read the conditions ahead or not as the possible case maybe..he endangered himself, the caravan the truck behind the caravan and the on coming traffic.

I would really like some of our serving members on here to give us a more definitive answer because I personally think if someone had got killed in that scenario I'm positive it would be the truck driver driving dangerously that would be facing the more heavier charges

[Sparksdisco]

regardless of the road rules...you MUST make every attempt to avoid a collision..

I think thats a point others seem to be missing.

who is to say that the caravan didn't see the truck coming? hence why he was half on half off the road...that truck should not of attempted to pass both vehicles..when their lane was ending

he failed to read the conditions ahead or not as the possible case maybe..he endangered himself, the caravan the truck behind the caravan and the on coming traffic.

I would really like some of our serving members on here to give us a more definitive answer because I personally think if someone had got killed in that scenario I'm positive it would be the truck driver driving dangerously that would be facing the more heavier charges

It's not the job of the police to make that call that's why you will never get a straight answer.
It's up to the blood sucking lawers to make a good enough arguement to convince the jury and the judge:(

[dullbird]

well that depends sparks as the police would investigate it and be the one to lay charges not the lawyers the lawyers just fight and attempt to disprove the charges.. the police would not charge someone unless there was sufficient evidence to say that an offence has been commited :)

[Mick_Marsh]

regardless of the road rules...you MUST make every attempt to avoid a collision..

I think thats a point others seem to be missing.

who is to say that the caravan didn't see the truck coming? hence why he was half on half off the road...that truck should not of attempted to pass both vehicles..when their lane was ending

he failed to read the conditions ahead or not as the possible case maybe..he endangered himself, the caravan the truck behind the caravan and the on coming traffic.
Don't forget the truck driver behind the caravan was driving too close to the caravan.

I wouldn't ask the police for their interpretation. This is one for a judge.

Oh, and I wouldn't bring the police into it. When you do, a few days later the thread is deleted after much heated discussion.

[dullbird]

fair enough, however it wouldn't get to a judge unless the police interpreted it :D....of course the judge would have the final say but its the police investigation including witness statements and findings that support the commission of an offence which puts the person in front of a judge in the first place:)..

I wont say anymore on it :)... you seemed to think that many of us had missed your point. I dont think we have I just think its not as black and white as what your saying.:)

I have sent the video to a mate that is a traffic cop anyway so I guess I will find out their interpretation :)..I want to satisfy my own curiosity...I find Law and interpretation of the law quite interesting.

[BigJon]

f
I have sent the video to a mate that is a traffic cop anyway so I guess I will find out their interpretation :)..

Which will be the interpretation of one traffic cop, which possibly (probably) won't be representative of all police.

[dullbird]

of course...:)

Still interpretation of one cop is better than many internet experts that are not in the job, that is myself included:)...so please don't take offence.

I wont be posting it here so don't worry like I said I have asked for my own curiosity.

[Graeme]

I can't understand why people are discussing the caravan driver's actions because the truck with the camera had to move left off the road to the left of the edge marking when he was already partly in the right lane so that the 2nd truck didn't hit him. Looking at the speed differential between the 2 trucks, the 2nd truck had left his run far too late to pass the 1st truck even if the caravan wasn't there.

Recently I had to slow right down when merging behind a very slow car and trailer that had a tall, unstable load but as the driver stayed out of the right lane by partly driving on the dirt, I was able to accelerate and get past without getting near the centre lines. A semi that I had not long overtaken had to slow to a crawl as the trailer driver had pulled back onto the road after I passed. That truck driver did what he was required to do, ie slow and wait for a safe overtaking opportunity.

[Ace]

At the conclusion of an overtaking lane the vehicles in the slow lane are required to merge back into the right hand lane. Vehicles already in the fast lane are required to allow room for this to occur, i.e they must give way. If the caravan was required to give way then he would have to stop in the lane of traffic until there was a safe space to move into, this is not practical. I see it all to often when someone in the fast lane just has to get past one more car thus forcing them onto the wrong side of the road as the vehicle in the left lane has no where to go but to merge into the right lane as his lane ends. If traffic is in the middle of an overtaking lane or freeway the it is up to the car in the left lane to check the right lane and merge when safe. Some vehicles slow down at the end of an overtaking lane to allow the faster cars to get past, this is purely courteous driving, if tge want to merge then the cars in the right lane should allow them space.

[TD50WA]

In WA the truck would be charged with reckless driving. Caravan and camera truck have not committed any offence.

In merging situations on any road, vehicle in front has right of way.

WA removed that dotted line rule many years ago because it caused more accidents than it created to avoid.

Don't confuse dotted lines on feeder or slip lanes with merging lanes.....this incident is on a merging road.

There are several offences committed here by the truck, but the most serious would usually be applied.

In all cases, regardless of the right of way, every driver must ensure it is safe to proceed, otherwise they can be held accountable for any unfortunate outcome.

What's the good of being in the right if you are dead?

Cheers all
Kev
Ex crash investigator.

[Mick_Marsh]

bigkevg, thanks for your take on this.
I find it interesting WA has got rid if this confusing road law. The rest of Australia says WA means "wait awhile" and laughs at how backward they are. Quite rude really.
You have just demonstrated how progressive WA really are. All we need is for the eastern states to catch up to Western Australia.

[Sparksdisco]

bigkevg, thanks for your take on this.
I find it interesting WA has got rid if this confusing road law. The rest of Australia says WA means "wait awhile" and laughs at how backward they are. Quite rude really.
You have just demonstrated how progressive WA really are. All we need is for the eastern states to catch up to Western Australia.

Na us westies are foward in going backwards:p

[TD50WA]

Yeah, don't follow us.....1 step forward, 2 steps back.....:D....don't worry, our govt will balance out the good with stuffing something else ;).

Cheers
Kev

[cewilson]

Biggest problem is the lack of consistency between all of the states and territories. The differences are laughable.

Surely a NATIONAL set of road rules, vehicle regulations etc etc isn't THAT hard.....

[dullbird]

didnt someone say not that long ago that the road rules are national? its only the signage that differs from state to state

[Bushie]

There is a set of Australian Road Rules, but then there's all the exceptions that the states have, it is coming together though.


NSW has incorporated the Australian Road Rules and our local rules into a single set of NSW road rules.
The July 2008 nationally agreed changes to the Australian Road Rules included some minor amendments to existing rules and new rules attracting fines and/or demerit points.
From 1 November 2012, changes to NSW Road Rules will come into effect.
Each state has to enact the legislation/regulations that changes the existing rules.

and our local rules
Martyn

[BigJon]

I
In merging situations on any road, vehicle in front has right of way.

WA removed that dotted line rule many years ago because it caused more accidents than it created to avoid.

Don't confuse dotted lines on feeder or slip lanes with merging lanes.....this incident is on a merging road.


Cheers all
Kev
Ex crash investigator.

That might be the case in WA, but is not in SA and quite possibly all the other States and Territories in Australia. The rules in SA and Vic are quite clear. If you cross a dotted line then you have to give way to traffic which is not crossing a dotted line.


148—Giving way when moving from one marked lane or line of traffic to
another marked lane or line of traffic
(1) A driver who is moving from one marked lane (whether or not the lane is ending) to
another marked lane must give way to any vehicle travelling in the same direction as
the driver in the marked lane to which the driver is moving.
Offence provision.
Note 1—
Marked lane and multi-lane road are defined in the dictionary.
Note 2—
For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a
collision—see the definition in the dictionary.


The above was taken directly from a website linked from the SA government.

[Mick_Marsh]

At the conclusion of an overtaking lane the vehicles in the slow lane are required to merge back into the right hand lane. Vehicles already in the fast lane are required to allow room for this to occur, i.e they must give way. If the caravan was required to give way then he would have to stop in the lane of traffic until there was a safe space to move into, this is not practical. I see it all to often when someone in the fast lane just has to get past one more car thus forcing them onto the wrong side of the road as the vehicle in the left lane has no where to go but to merge into the right lane as his lane ends. If traffic is in the middle of an overtaking lane or freeway the it is up to the car in the left lane to check the right lane and merge when safe. Some vehicles slow down at the end of an overtaking lane to allow the faster cars to get past, this is purely courteous driving, if tge want to merge then the cars in the right lane should allow them space.
Yes. All courteous and sensible.
Can you explain this?
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=54934&stc=1&d=1356866897
Changing lanes

Whenever you change lanes from one
marked lane or line of traffic to another,
you must give way to vehicles already in
that lane or line of traffic. This includes
crossing over any broken line marked
on the road which indicates that a lane
ends, for example when merging into
freeway traffic.
Note: If you cross any lines marked on
the road, then you are not zip merging
but changing lanes and you must give
way accordingly.


Proclaiming it is a stupid rule is no defence. I've been the victim of stupid rules before.

What I would like to see is government gazetted direction that this rule no longer applies.

[cewilson]

That rule has been in for years in most states etc. But it doesn't negate the fact that there has to be some 'reading' of the traffic ahead, and doing whatever is possible to avoid an accident.

Simple fact is that truckie should never have tried what he did. It won't matter what the law says when an accident that could've been avoided ends up killing a family or more. That isn't going to stop the nightmares for anyone involved, or the fact that people have lost their loved ones.

And all for saving (most likely) 5 minutes, as frustrating as it can be sitting behind someone at times. Is it all really worth it???


Oh - and I know in my last two jobs that if anyone was ever caught doing that, they wouldn't have a job when they got back. That simply isn't tolerated at all.

[Ace]

So if the red car gives way and slows down what about the car following the green car and so on.

Its like roundabouts, the law is the first car on the roundabout has right of way but we all give way to the right because that is easiest to work out and works best. Could you imagine trying to police who crossed the line first.

Its a stupid rule, i agree, theres lots of them.

[Mick_Marsh]

So if the red car gives way and slows down what about the car following the green car and so on.

Its like roundabouts, the law is the first car on the roundabout has right of way but we all give way to the right because that is easiest to work out and works best. Could you imagine trying to police who crossed the line first.

Its a stupid rule, i agree, theres lots of them.

Yes. Stupid rule, I agree but it is the rule and will remain a rule (which police will book me for if I disobey it) until it is repealed.

Roundabouts. Good topic of discussion which has been covered elsewhere on this forum.
I think you have grasped the wrong end. "You must give way to any vehicle on the roundabout (and this includes slipways)." It does not follow the first car on the roundabout has right of way.
Basically, if you're on or entering a roundabout and you drive into something, you're at fault.
From the Victorian road rules:

Rule 114
Giving way when entering or driving in a roundabout
(1) A driver entering a roundabout must give way to—
(a) any vehicle in the roundabout; and
(b) a tram that is entering or approaching the roundabout.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
Note 1 Tram is defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary,
stop to avoid a collision—see the definition in the dictionary.
(2) A driver driving in a roundabout must give way to a tram that is in, entering or
approaching the roundabout.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
(3) In this rule—
tram includes a bus travelling along tram tracks.
Note 1 Travelling along tram tracks is defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 For the give way rules applying to a driver moving from one marked lane or
line of traffic to another marked lane or line of traffic, see rule 148.

No mention of anyone having right of way.

[Disco44]

While that was an atrocious piece of driving by the truck driver it possibly wasn't much better by the van tower.

Time and time again I see people in cars driving at 5 - 10 kph below the speed limit only to speed up to 5 - 10 kph over the speed limit when an overtaking lane opens up. I am sure it would be extremely frustrating for the driver of a truck which is limited to 100kph.

I am also disturbed by the number of posters in this thread who are ignorant of some basic road rules.

If you have to cross dotted lines to merge then your lane is ending and you MUST GIVE WAY. No ifs, buts or maybes.
If the lane ends and there are no dotted lines then the vehicle behind must give way.

Here in Queensland it is an offense to hold up traffic.You have to pull over and let the build of traffic pass or it will cost you quite a few dollars..Please take note Victorian drivers,you are a pain in **** when doing that under the guise of sight seeing,look in your mirrors some time.
John.

[Ace]

So from your pictures Mick if the green car wasnt along side the red one who gives way then? Does the green car have to slow down and allow space for the red car to merge? Does that law only apply if the green vehicle is in any way along side the red vehicle?

[Mick_Marsh]

So from your pictures Mick if the green car wasnt along side the red one who gives way then? Does the green car have to slow down and allow space for the red car to merge? Does that law only apply if the green vehicle is in any way along side the red vehicle?
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/general-chat/54934d1356866897-closer-than-they-realise-road-rule.jpg
Whenever you change lanes from one
marked lane or line of traffic to another,
you must give way to vehicles already in
that lane or line of traffic. This includes
crossing over any broken line marked
on the road which indicates that a lane
ends, for example when merging into
freeway traffic.
Note: If you cross any lines marked on
the road, then you are not zip merging
but changing lanes and you must give
way accordingly.

The vehicle in the left lane gives way to any vehicle in the right lane. The vehicle in the right lane does not have to slow down to allow zip merging.

Ace, you are getting confused with this rule:
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/image/inforce/%28%28Type%3Dsubordleg%29%20AND%20%28No%3D179%29%2 0AND%20%28Year%3D2008%29%29%20AND%20%28%22Historic al%20Document%22%3D%220%22%29%20AND%20%28Repealed% 3DN%29/oLRoEPLGPIYijXjAVtkw2g%3D%3D_g177.gif
If you are on a road where there are no
lines marked and the road is such that
two rows of vehicles must merge into
one, you must give way to any vehicle
which has any part of its vehicle ahead
of yours. This is called zip merging.
Note: If you cross any lines marked on
the road, then you are not zip merging
but changing lanes and you must give
way accordingly.

It's all in the placement of the dashed lines.

If you attend a Wombat trip, around the campfire you would probably hear my mate John go on about "laws" and "unintended consequences". This is one such case. Some bureaucrat decided to paint little dashed lines, another bureaucrat decided we nedded a new rule for these little dashed lines and now we have another confusing road rule and unintended consequences.

If you elected me dictator, I would have all those stupid dashed lines removed.
But I'm not dictator and them's the rules in black and white. The rules those angry men in blue are paid to enforce.

[BigJon]

Here in Queensland it is an offense to hold up traffic..

That is an offence all over Australia, albeit one I have never seen enforced.

[BigJon]

So from your pictures Mick if the green car wasnt along side the red one who gives way then? Does the green car have to slow down and allow space for the red car to merge? Does that law only apply if the green vehicle is in any way along side the red vehicle?


As Mick says (and I did earlier) the car crossing the dotted line has to give way. There is no further discussion to be entered into.

[Mick_Marsh]

Here in Queensland it is an offense to hold up traffic.You have to pull over and let the build of traffic pass or it will cost you quite a few dollars..Please take note Victorian drivers,you are a pain in **** when doing that under the guise of sight seeing,look in your mirrors some time.
John.
I think that one is here in Victoria as well. (Rule and drivers.)
They certainly need to enforce it with the locals in South Australia.
Just after Christmas, I was following a NSW registered vehicle on the road between Strathalbyn and Goolwa. He was travelling at 80km/h on the curvy bits where I could not pass and on the long straight bits where I could pass, he was accelerating up to 110km/h.
Obviously, from his point of view, he was in unfamiliar territory and travelling at a safe speed around the difficult bits and did not want to hold up the traffic behind him on the easy bits. He thought he was being courteous but he was driving, as you say, like a Victorian in Queensland.
I always say to people, "If you drive at 80km/h on the curvy bits, drive at 80km/h on the straight bits to allow those behind you to overtake. Be a consistent driver."
Is that wrong? I would rather have a consistent driver in front of me and an erratic one behind me.

[Ace]

I knew in my head what i meant, thanks Mick, cleared that up nicely.

[cewilson]

I know what you mean about drivers not knowing a road. I like to get behind a local and follow them or if in the semi then I'll let another truck past and pace myself off of them.

[Disco44]

I think that one is here in Victoria as well. (Rule and drivers.)
They certainly need to enforce it with the locals in South Australia.
Just after Christmas, I was following a NSW registered vehicle on the road between Strathalbyn and Goolwa. He was travelling at 80km/h on the curvy bits where I could not pass and on the long straight bits where I could pass, he was accelerating up to 110km/h.
Obviously, from his point of view, he was in unfamiliar territory and travelling at a safe speed around the difficult bits and did not want to hold up the traffic behind him on the easy bits. He thought he was being courteous but he was driving, as you say, like a Victorian in Queensland.
I always say to people, "If you drive at 80km/h on the curvy bits, drive at 80km/h on the straight bits to allow those behind you to overtake. Be a consistent driver."
Is that wrong? I would rather have a consistent driver in front of me and an erratic one behind me.

I was taught and I don't know if it is law or not the driver who can least cause an accident to give way.How many motorists use round a bouts correctly i.e.that the first on the round a bout dictates right of way.Most think that they have right of way if they are on your right.incorrect it is as described above.

[Sparksdisco]

I was taught and I don't know if it is law or not the driver who can least cause an accident to give way.How many motorists use round a bouts correctly i.e.that the first on the round a bout dictates right of way.Most think that they have right of way if they are on your right.incorrect it is as described above.

yea but if you have traffic comming on your left then...

your doing it wrong;)

[UncleHo]

There is also the unwritten rule,"He that is largest or has the biggest bull bar has right of way" :twisted: :D


And in, Qld. it is the right of interstate tourists to drive 10kph below the speed limit in the outside lane on multi lane highways :( :vampire:

[Mick_Marsh]

I was taught and I don't know if it is law or not the driver who can least cause an accident to give way.How many motorists use round a bouts correctly i.e.that the first on the round a bout dictates right of way.Most think that they have right of way if they are on your right.incorrect it is as described above.
I wonder how many people know the "Give Way to the Right" rule has not been in the road rules for quite some years?

[lewy]

I wonder how many people know the "Give Way to the Right" rule has not been in the road rules for quite some years?

only at roundabouts::D

[ecn226]

Giveway to the right is still there. Think cross road normally controlled by traffic lights but they are flashing orange or not working at all. Normal give way rules apply, which is give way to the right in this instance. This is however the only time I can think of at the moment where it would apply.

[Mick_Marsh]

Giveway to the right is still there. Think cross road normally controlled by traffic lights but they are flashing orange or not working at all. Normal give way rules apply, which is give way to the right in this instance. This is however the only time I can think of at the moment where it would apply.
Thanks for the prompt. It still exists. Rule 72.
Right, off to the local lawman to tell him how wrong he was.
Wish me luck.

[lewy]

unless its a roundabout,
(1) A driver entering a roundabout must give way to:
(a) any vehicle in the roundabout; and
(b) a tram that is entering or approaching the roundabout.

[Sleepy]

I think Dullbird nailed it. It is not about the "rules".

I think what happens on our roads is more about that same old "point of failure" - The Nut Behind The Wheel!

In aviation there is an unwritten code called "airmanship". It is hard to define but relies on empathy, patience and an overriding theme of safety-first.

Those of us that venture into more remote areas often display a similar nature:


Passing on road conditions to those we meet.
Slowing down to avoid dust or gravel nuisance
Rescuing others
Lending tools.....or just a tent peg!


We could call this 4wdmanship.....................or just respect!

Unfortunately we just don't see that same sense of camaraderie on the roads. (A reflection of our selfish society?)

Thank god for dash-cams. Hopefully the same uncompromising policing that we see focused on drugs, alcohol and speeding will be aimed at such idiots - the only way they will "get it" is when they loose their license.

[vnx205]

I think Dullbird nailed it. It is not about the "rules".

I think what happens on our roads is more about that same old "point of failure" - The Nut Behind The Wheel!

In aviation there is an unwritten code called "airmanship". It is hard to define but relies on empathy, patience and an overriding theme of safety-first.

I often wonder whether a story a mate of mine told me about 40 years ago was true.

He claimed he asked an acquaintance of his what he was going to do about the serious rust problems in his car. The acquaintance replied that he wasn't going to do anything about the rust. He said would just wait for someone to fail to give way to him at an intersection when he had right of way. He would run into the other car so that he could claim on their insurance.

Sadly, I think it might be possible that some people on the road think it is more important to insist on their right of way than it is to avoid a collision.

[Mick_Marsh]

I often wonder whether a story a mate of mine told me about 40 years ago was true.

He claimed he asked an acquaintance of his what he was going to do about the serious rust problems in his car. The acquaintance replied that he wasn't going to do anything about the rust. He said would just wait for someone to fail to give way to him at an intersection when he had right of way. He would run into the other car so that he could claim on their insurance.

Sadly, I think it might be possible that some people on the road think it is more important to insist on their right of way than it is to avoid a collision.
That is why the road rules are written "You must give way to...." and not "You have right of way if ....".

I think the road rules are written in such a way that it implies you must avoid accidents.

[Chops]

That is why the road rules are written "You must give way to...." and not "You have right of way if ....".

I think the road rules are written in such a way that it implies you must avoid accidents.

When I acquired my first Landy and built a good bullbar for it, I always said, "now let's see those knobs cut me off, I'll just push them off the road".

It's amazing how "Self preservation" takes over, regardless of the offenders size. :eek:

[Disco44]

There is also the unwritten rule,"He that is largest or has the biggest bull bar has right of way" :twisted: :D


And in, Qld. it is the right of interstate tourists to drive 10kph below the speed limit in the outside lane on multi lane highways :( :vampire:

Uncle tell that to some young shielas up here in their little lawn mowers.They drive like they are a protected species with the power they have just obtained with their new drivers licenses.I have heard more then one heavy vehicle driver say "They aren't scared of us are they?" Especially in Brisbane they have no qualms what-so-ever in pinching your braking distance and half of them don't know the length of their own car and try and merge just missing you. End of rant.
John.

[Brad110]

It must be the Hume. Travelled Melb to Canberra yesterday similar incident green and red P players weaving in and out heavy vehicles at over 120kmhr.

Saw one copper.

LROCV POST..

http://www.going bush.com/land/20130101_170905_N.mp4

[Mick_Marsh]

It must be the Hume. Travelled Melb to Canberra yesterday similar incident green and red P players weaving in and out heavy vehicles at over 120kmhr.

Saw one copper.

LROCV POST..

http://www.going bush.com/land/20130101_170905_N.mp4
link doesn't work

[Chops]

Uncle tell that to some young shielas up here in their little lawn mowers.They drive like they are a protected species with the power they have just obtained with their new drivers licenses.I have heard more then one heavy vehicle driver say "They aren't scared of us are they?" Especially in Brisbane they have no qualms what-so-ever in pinching your braking distance and half of them don't know the length of their own car and try and merge just missing you. End of rant.
John.

Travelling down from Albury yesterday, I had the pleasure of watching a P plater screaming past us, and a mile up the road watched as Mr Plod did a U turn from the centre to nail her :D

As Mr P was exiting his car, he gave me a look, so I gave a little wave,, was wondering if he was someone from here ;)

[Tombie]

Travelling down from Albury yesterday, I had the pleasure of watching a P plater screaming past us, and a mile up the road watched as Mr Plod did a U turn from the centre to nail her :D

As Mr P was exiting his car, he gave me a look, so I gave a little wave,, was wondering if he was someone from here ;)

Did you slow down as you passed?

Over here in SA you are supposed to slow down to 40km/h when passing a vehicle with its beacon active..

I always do, much to the frustration of road users behind me, and often get a wave from the Officer for being courteous.

[Mick_Marsh]

Did you slow down as you passed?

Over here in SA you are supposed to slow down to 40km/h when passing a vehicle with its beacon active..

I always do, much to the frustration of road users behind me, and often get a wave from the Officer for being courteous.
Doesn't exist in the Victorian road rules. Which rule is it in the SA road rules?

[bee utey]

Road Safety : Speed limits & penalites (http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/roadsafety/safer_speeds/speed_limits_and_penalties)


40 km/h

some built up areas (eg residential areas) have a speed limit of 40 km/h indicated by signs on all roads leading to that area
on the approach to a ‘wombat’ pedestrian crossing indicated by signs
when passing, in either direction, an emergency services vehicle(s) that is stationary and displaying red/blue flashing lights

[Chops]

Did you slow down as you passed?

Over here in SA you are supposed to slow down to 40km/h when passing a vehicle with its beacon active..

I always do, much to the frustration of road users behind me, and often get a wave from the Officer for being courteous.

No Tombie, I didn't slow down that much, have never heard of that rule but being a generally curtious driver I did back off a bit, and moved over a bit too.

Thanks for the info though, as at Easter we will be heading over to SA/Melrose, so when in Rome :D

[p38arover]

link doesn't work

going bush has pulled his website down.

[Bushie]

Did you slow down as you passed?

Over here in SA you are supposed to slow down to 40km/h when passing a vehicle with its beacon active..

I always do, much to the frustration of road users behind me, and often get a wave from the Officer for being courteous.

You also have 25kph limits on roadworks (at least in some areas) - tell me that ain't painful, especially when there is no one working.


Martyn

[BigJon]

Over here in SA you are supposed to slow down to 40km/h when passing a vehicle with its beacon active..

I always do, much to the frustration of road users behind me, and often get a wave from the Officer for being courteous.

I always do as well.

[Mick_Marsh]

Road Safety : Speed limits & penalites (http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/roadsafety/safer_speeds/speed_limits_and_penalties)
Thanks for the link. As I drive in SA often, I should familiarise myself with the local rules.

[BBC]

Here is an interesting academic paper:

Reducing motor vehicle crash deaths and injuries in newly motorising countries (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1123097/)

that discusses possible measures for reducing motor vehicle crash deaths and injuries in newly motorising countries. Interested to hear what other people's take it on what is takes to change road user behaviour.

I am currently living in Mozambique. Driver behaviour on this continent gives you a very different perspective. Consider the road toll in South Africa....more than 1200 killed....in only Dec 2012.

Have a look here at the detail of South African road statistics over time:

Arrive Alive South Africa | Accident Crash Statistics (http://www.arrivealive.co.za/pages.aspx?i=2826)

It does help put the Australian road statistic situation in perspective.

[rovercare]

Does not make it ok, but still, goes to show the frustration that's formed from someone towing a caravan on a liesurely journey below the speed limit and someone trying to do there job on the road

I mean, someone towing is trying to save a few bucks on fuel economy getting in the way of someone doing there job

I spoke with a truck driver, the fella Mike_ie got the Isuzu rangie from, he was a truck driver of 30+ years, had a GU and a caravan, as I made a snigger about holding truck drivers up, he said **** no, if you can't travel at the speed limit in good conditions, you should not be on the road, I don't like people holding me up trying to do my job, I don't like to do it to others

[FFR]

I mean, someone towing is trying to save a few bucks on fuel economy getting in the way of someone doing there job


When I was living in the Canary Islands I had a Series III.

Max speed in the three-lane freeway was 120, and minimum (by law) was 60. So I use to drive at 70, like some other tax-payers, so nothing wrong/dangerous. On the other hand, some heavy loaded trucks were not capable of going that fast uphill (really steep uphill).

Nowadays, when I am in a hurry to get somewhere, I find some people who do not share my rush... but they have the right to use the road in that way. It is like when you find a bicyle, or an L (80) plate. They are genuine users, like me. They have the right to be there. I wish they weren't there (like the other drivers in traffic jams) but they are. They have nothing against me, I have nothing against them.

[Disco44]

You also have 25kph limits on roadworks (at least in some areas) - tell me that ain't painful, especially when there is no one working.


Martyn

My oath right with you there Bushie
John.

[ellard]

Good Morning all

I must admit, as a few are aware I work in the mining industry in the far north of SA.

I travel roads which are heavly populated with huge trucks (Road trains, tripples & larger). They must get frustrated with travelers who are sitting on 80kph, but still no need for road rage etc but if your going to travel well below the speed limit please give way to oncomming traffic in the mirrow if possible

Enjoy your day all and be safe

Wayne

[rovercare]

Good Morning all

I must admit, as a few are aware I work in the mining industry in the far north of SA.

I travel roads which are heavly populated with huge trucks (Road trains, tripples & larger). They must get frustrated with travelers who are sitting on 80kph, but still no need for road rage etc but if your going to travel well below the speed limit please give way to oncomming traffic in the mirrow if possible

Enjoy your day all and be safe

Wayne

That's it

Lets say your a bicky dipper with caravan in tow, travelling at the magical 90km/hr trying to conserve fuel with no regard to anyone but yourself

Man in truck trying to get to his destination so he gets home to his family sooner, most likely he is a contractor, paid for his load, not an hourly rate

So he gets stuck behind said bicky dipper, whom thinks its his "right" as he pays his rego etc, at 90 km/hr

That 10km/hr difference is 10% in time for which the truck driver adds to his trip, which will be a flat rate of pay

Think of it this way, if someone, just doing there own thing got in your way at work, and it happened that in doing so, they inadvertantly dropped your pay by 10%, so you not think you would get a little frustrated?





Drop pay 10% = Angry




Bicky dippers that travel at 80-90 with no regard to others, I think should either be removed from the road, or charged for holding up traffic and people should be more courteous to those that are behind them

[Tombie]

Absolutely!

Impeding the flow of traffic is the offense.

I've been charged with it whilst doing 130km/h

Go figure!!!! But there is quite a bit
More to it involving a Porsche and a mate!

Doing a speed less than that of the Load carriers is obscene.

I reckon we should be able to pit them if they don't move over!
(Just kidding - although I have been tempted!)

[vnx205]

Some of you are obviously too young to remember when trucks were the slowest thing on the roads on the uphill bits. A lot of them were Bedfords and similarly underpowered British trucks.

There were almost no overtaking lanes in those days. Anyone else remember how long it used to take to get up the Bulledelah Hill if you got stuck behind a truck.

Maybe those grey nomads with their caravans are paying truckies back for all those times they remember when they were children and their father's cursed the snail-like pace of the truck in front of them. :D:D:D

[Tombie]

When I was living in the Canary Islands I had a Series III.

Max speed in the three-lane freeway was 120, and minimum (by law) was 60. So I use to drive at 70, like some other tax-payers, so nothing wrong/dangerous. On the other hand, some heavy loaded trucks were not capable of going that fast uphill (really steep uphill).

Nowadays, when I am in a hurry to get somewhere, I find some people who do not share my rush... but they have the right to use the road in that way. It is like when you find a bicyle, or an L (80) plate. They are genuine users, like me. They have the right to be there. I wish they weren't there (like the other drivers in traffic jams) but they are. They have nothing against me, I have nothing against them.

No they don't.

They pay for the privilege of using the roadway - not the right...

And by law have no right to hold up the flow of traffic....
(Excluding Learners / P platers under license conditions)...

They do have to give way and NOT Impede the flow of traffic..
Which is part of law...


Caravan towing Bikkie Dunkers need to do at least 100km/h.
This means they are flowing with the larger vehicles (trucks) and making life safer for all on the road...

[Chucaro]

I remember those days, if the traffic was very slow it was because a Kombi or a truck was some were struggling to go up the hill :D
Bulli Pass in NSW with a gradient of 350m rise over a 2.63km was a typical spot.

[vnx205]

I remember those days, if the traffic was very slow it was because a Kombi or a truck was some were struggling to go up the hill :D
Bulli Pass in NSW with a gradient of 350m rise over a 2.63km was a typical spot.

Just imagine the fuss that would be made by some of today's impatient young drivers who think it is the end of the world if they are held up for a few minutes or a few hundred metres, if they had to accept the sort of delays that were commonplace back then. :D

[rovercare]

Just imagine the fuss that would be made by some of today's impatient young drivers who think it is the end of the world if they are held up for a few minutes or a few hundred metres, if they had to accept the sort of delays that were commonplace back then. :D

But it was common place, now it's no longer

And an old Bedford traveling slowly up a hill due to the lack of vehicular ability to travel faster is different to bikky dipper, traveling at 90 on a flat road to safe a few cents, even when there is a dozen vehicles behind the selfish silver tops

[Chucaro]

But it was common place, now it's no longer

And an old Bedford traveling slowly up a hill due to the lack of vehicular ability to travel faster is different to bikky dipper, traveling at 90 on a flat road to safe a few cents, even when there is a dozen vehicles behind the selfish silver tops

Silver tops are not in a harry, they have made it to the old disgraceful life style :D
They wondering if the young "tail chaser generation" will make it :D

[vnx205]

But it was common place, now it's no longer



I think that is one of the points I was trying to make.

It used to be very common and our fathers accepted it (sort of).

Now it is rare, yet some people want to get all stressed about it.

[Davo]

As well as smoky old trucks struggling up hills, I seem to remember people actually pulling over if they were holding up traffic. Has that died out as well?

[rovercare]

As well as smoky old trucks struggling up hills, I seem to remember people actually pulling over if they were holding up traffic. Has that died out as well?

Yes, sticker on a yaris I saw the other day, "closer you get, slower I go" ignorant old bat, people should be courteous and let faster moving traffic pass, not have this sense of entitlement that they can hold others up willy nilly

[rovercare]

Silver tops are not in a harry, they have made it to the old disgraceful life style :D
They wondering if the young "tail chaser generation" will make it :D

No

As per a previous post, the truck driver/bikky dipper I spoke with was well in his 50's I'd think, even early 60's

Plenty of irate older road users hate self righteous van tug drivers traveling below the sped limit whilst being inconsiderate doubt so, Pat303 about?:D

[UncleHo]

Yup! VNX-205 :)

I can very clearly remember nursing overweigh Leylands and Pommie Dodges as well as petrol Inters and Bedfords up Bulledelah Range,AND that 18MPH corner half way down heading north,had to back up a long body 675 Dodge back down that corner to let the milk tanker past (semi):( overtaking lanes and run-offs were pipe dreams :D Brisbane to Sydney was a 24hr run if you flogged it,only to be passed by a "Redline Coach" Oh! the sound & glare of the low vacuum buzzer and light :wasntme:


cheers

[Davo]

Yes, sticker on a yaris I saw the other day, "closer you get, slower I go" ignorant old bat, people should be courteous and let faster moving traffic pass, not have this sense of entitlement that they can hold others up willy nilly

I've heard of that and I can't imagine actually putting a sticker like that on my car. How embarrassment. Very rarely, I might slow down if someone is tailgating and I'm right at the limit, and maybe they'll take the hint - or not. I won't speed and if they want to, then they can go and break the law on their own. But intentionally holding people up is sort of sociopathic.

[UncleHo]

I used to have 3 painted signs on the rear cross brace on the tray of one of the trucks



<Suicide------- Sports Cars & Dogs-------- Passing Side>



;)

[Tombie]

I've heard of that and I can't imagine actually putting a sticker like that on my car. How embarrassment. Very rarely, I might slow down if someone is tailgating and I'm right at the limit, and maybe they'll take the hint - or not. I won't speed and if they want to, then they can go and break the law on their own. But intentionally holding people up is sort of sociopathic.

Agree...

And your other option is just pull off for a second and let them zip on past.

[Davo]

The only option is the gravel shoulder, so too dicey. Often, I've flashed my brake lights and the driver behind suddenly wakes up and slows down until they're a few hundred metres behind me, and then we've continued that way for an hour or so. No doubt they were half asleep.

Here's a campaign I liked very much: Office of Road Safety (http://enjoytheride.wa.gov.au/)

[Sleepy]

I drive my 101 at 90kmh. It is economical and I don't need the ear plugs.:angel:

On the highway, I keep my eye on the mirrors and fully aware of who is behind. (Well I try anyway!)

I keep left on multi lane sections. I adjust my speed in overtaking sections to maximise overtaking opportunities for others. I concentrate as much as possible.

In single lane sections I maintain a constant speed (90kmh) and if there is a wide shoulder (Sealed) I will edge over to allow others to both "see" ahead and judge their overtaking.Once they commence an overtake, I will back off to minimise the time they are out there. (Unless of course there is a queue in which case I maintain my speed)

But having said all that, I will end up holding you up. So .......sorry! Please be patient, I am only exercising my hobby and using the roads for which I too pay taxes.


RC, I think you 10% calculation is a bit dodgy. After all, most grey nomads have to stop every hour for a pee anyway!:p:p

Ever think those "slower I go" stickers are just baby boomers trolling (old style!)

Is it self righteous to assume you can drive to your destination at the speed limit?


I am getting a sticker too.


The closer you get, the more bicky's I dip. :p





(Have you ever tried a chocolate coated teddy bear, bite off one foot and hold leg in a glass of port then bite off an ear and suck the port into the teddy bear? Now that is bicky dipping! )

[bell1975]

That is an offence all over Australia, albeit one I have never seen enforced.

In NZ there are Police districts that charter light aircraft in order to spot the offending drivers at the head of a long queue of traffic - and radio it back to patrolling officers so that they can be infringed.

There is welcome recognition by the NZ Police that failing to pull over and let others pass is the catalyst for unsafe overtaking...and there was hardly a holiday period that I recall going by when I lived there where there weren't several head-ons that were caused by people failing to execute dodgy overtakes because they were frustrated by the idiot at the head of the queue (apologies for the poorly worded sentence).

My 2c worth in relation to the video that started this thread:
- the truckie filming the incident was following the camper-towing vehicle too closely, and
- that truckie was more than likely blocking the camper and vehicle from the view of the truckie that was overtaking them (they probably weren't able to see the camper until they had committed themselves to the manoeuvre by which time it was too late to back off), and
- the driver of the camper *might* have been able to see that there was a truck about to execute this dodgy overtake *if* they had been more on the ball with respect to what was happening behind them (and this would have required them to wander out to the right of the dashed lines a little way so that they could see past the idiot driver in the truck that was so far up their rear-end)

I recall my driving instructor telling me off for not checking my mirrors in overtaking lanes - she taught me that the fools like this truckie are able to be managed if you know they're there. And sometimes you have to be *assertive* about vehicle positioning in order to prevent others from invading your space. (And of course there will be exceptions to every rule and I'm not making a blanket statement about how I drive...)

I have found this to be especially true when on two wheels.

It's been a while since I saw a good "driving behaviour" thread. You watch stuff like this guy's antics on the video and you see it on the road and say to yourself "Little wonder the road toll is so high eh?".

Take care all. Check your mirrors as you trundle down the overtaking lanes.

[Disco44]

Yes, sticker on a yaris I saw the other day, "closer you get, slower I go" ignorant old bat, people should be courteous and let faster moving traffic pass, not have this sense of entitlement that they can hold others up willy nilly

I take it you are a tailgater.That is what that sticker is meant to portray.Maybe you are the one who is ignorant of the road rules.
John.

[Mick_Marsh]

I take it you are a tailgater.That is what that sticker is meant to portray.Maybe you are the one who is ignorant of the road rules.
John.
Rule 126

126. Keeping a safe distance behind vehicles
A driver must drive a sufficient distance behind a vehicle travelling in front of
the driver so the driver can, if necessary, stop safely to avoid a collision with
the vehicle.
Penalty: In the case of drivers of large vehicles, 10 penalty units;
In the case of drivers of vehicles other than large vehicles,
5 penalty units.

[superquag]

The key phrase is "...so the driver can, if necessary, stop safely to avoid a collision with the vehicle"

A crash stop is not a safe stop.

Nor is, IMHO, avoiding a collision by braking/steering off to one side of the car in front, observance of that Rule...

If the original video looks the same as 'real life', then yes, the video-truck was too darn close, whatever the 'van ws doing.

Dash cams can have two cameras... or a cheapy pointing out the back to deal with tailgaters... Indeed, a cheap one won't be able to clearly read a number plate -unless the following vehicle really IS too close.

Let's just say that some minor whiplash injuries can remind the victim for quite a few years afterwards...

[rovercare]

I take it you are a tailgater.That is what that sticker is meant to portray.Maybe you are the one who is ignorant of the road rules.
John.

No, I was at a t intersection

I'm an overtaker

And at times when Im traveling slower than those behind I'm a pull over type and let them continue on, not the slow down "it's my right" type:D

[rovercare]

Agree...

And your other option is just pull off for a second and let them zip on past.

That

Yet people rather insist on slowing down, tapping brakes etc rather than being courteous

[bob10]

No they don't.

They pay for the privilege of using the roadway - not the right...

And by law have no right to hold up the flow of traffic....
(Excluding Learners / P platers under license conditions)...

They do have to give way and NOT Impede the flow of traffic..
Which is part of law...


Caravan towing Bikkie Dunkers need to do at least 100km/h.
This means they are flowing with the larger vehicles (trucks) and making life safer for all on the road...
Common sense should determine how we drive, take the Gold coast hwy, travelled to the Casino for a show Saturday, both going down, & back home, I noticed a couple of things. Sticking to the speed limit, or just below, in the left lane, guaranteed nothing. You still get the driver who wants to sit on your tail & push you.If you drive with safe stopping distance in mind, any gap between you & the car in front is seen as fair game for drivers in small powerful cars to exploit, causing you to brake suddenly to avoid them, thus angering the neandertal in the V8 Toyota 4wd. driving so close behind you could touch him. Driving in rain showers seemed to encourage people to drive faster to get out of the rain, I KID YOU NOT. If you sit on the speed limit, your head spins as car after car whizzes past. Now, I drove in the Territory when there was no speed limit on the Stuart Hwy, so driving fast doesn't worry me, but there is a generation of drivers out there now who , quite frankly, scare the hell out of me. Bob

[dullbird]

and there is not always an appropriate place to pull over and when there is they sit on your **** until you get there!! I hate tail gaters with a passion..because they are putting other people in direct danger because they are being impatient.

I had one guy nearly hit me from behind once he followed me to the point where his 4wd bullbar was nearly touching the rear bar of the disco (that is not a joke all I could see in my rear view was his head and his rear view mirror and windscreen he was so close i could barely see his bonnet)..I was doing the speed limit up a windy steep hill...

and that is what I had to put up with for 3k there was no where to pull over because to the left of me was a drop off. In the end I got fed up and slowed down because if this loser was going to hit me he could do it at a slower speed rather than the speed limit to minimise damage, and hopefully not push me of the cliff face at the same time. eventually he overtook me on the double whites

[Davo]

That

Yet people rather insist on slowing down, tapping brakes etc rather than being courteous

Nup, as stated before there's almost nowhere to pull over safely on these highways - well, not without slowing to a crawl first. There are plenty of long stretches for overtaking and there's no need for tailgating. Lighting up the brake lights is more of a courtesy as I can always slow down without them instead.

If I'm doing the legal limit then I'm not going to repeatedly make room for those who are breaking the law. I will take control of the situation by slowing down or otherwise if they insist on tailgating.

The highways up here are extremely dangerous. Regularly, there are horrendous accidents where someone is burned to death or rolls over after falling asleep or swerving around cattle. Even with mobile reception coming in recently, you can still wait at least an hour for an ambulance and then it would be another hour back to the hospital. I carry two fire extinguishers, a fire blanket, an HF radio and a big first aid kit because of tailgaters and other idiots.

Most people on the highways up here are in a big hurry, which is pointless. Everywhere is still a long way and wearing out your car, heating up your tyres, using more fuel, and annoying those doing the right thing is hardly worth it to save half-an-hour or so.

[BigJon]

After driving back to Adelaide from Brisbane I have encountered another frustrating road user.
The slow overtaker.
Someone who will sit close enough to the truck in front that there isn't enough room to pass them, slot in and then pass the truck in two separate goes. So you are left with a very big overtake to get them both in one go, or you wait until they build the courage to overtake.

At one stage I did the latter, then followed them into the overtake (it was a very long straight stretch). The most frustrating and potentially dangerous part was they did the slowest overtake known to mankind.
I have always been of the opinion that if you are going to overtake you should spend the shortest time possible on the wrong side of the road. That means you get some speed up while on the correct side of the road, then pull out while still accelerating and don't back off until you are back on the correct side of the road.

The driver of the car I was following passed the truck at a speed barely any faster than the truck was going. There were a few tense seconds when I spotted a car coming the other way, but it was far enough that there was no real drama.

[Disco44]

Rule 126

126. Keeping a safe distance behind vehicles
A driver must drive a sufficient distance behind a vehicle travelling in front of
the driver so the driver can, if necessary, stop safely to avoid a collision with
the vehicle.
Penalty: In the case of drivers of large vehicles, 10 penalty units;
In the case of drivers of vehicles other than large vehicles,
5 penalty units.


Same in Queensland.

[Disco44]

No, I was at a t intersection

I'm an overtaker

And at times when Im traveling slower than those behind I'm a pull over type and let them continue on, not the slow down "it's my right" type:D

Well why use the term " OLD HAG" that says more about your driving and attitude they you wish to own up to.
John.

[UncleHo]

G'day Bob10 :)

So you also braved the Beenleigh to the Border race :D we went down to the GCLRO meeting Thursday evening,120+ and I was still getting my doors blown off :( seems that everybody leave's work at 4.00pm and wants to be home by 3.30pm :eek:


cheers

[bob10]

G'day Bob10 :)

So you also braved the Beenleigh to the Border race :D we went down to the GCLRO meeting Thursday evening,120+ and I was still getting my doors blown off :( seems that everybody leave's work at 4.00pm and wants to be home by 3.30pm :eek:


cheers
Give me the bush roads any time, not so many cashed up speed freaks , and your'e right, it's a race, all right. One thing to remember about the Casino car park, I had to take my radio aerial off, and the back of the disco just touched the max height indicator at the entrance, and I don't have a lift, just 245/70 tyres. Bob

[Disco Muppet]

Nup, as stated before there's almost nowhere to pull over safely on these highways - well, not without slowing to a crawl first. There are plenty of long stretches for overtaking and there's no need for tailgating. Lighting up the brake lights is more of a courtesy as I can always slow down without them instead.

If I'm doing the legal limit then I'm not going to repeatedly make room for those who are breaking the law. I will take control of the situation by slowing down or otherwise if they insist on tailgating.


This X several million.
If I'm driving at significantly lower than the speed limit, or there's a long line of people hoping to overtake, I will gladly pull slightly off the road or even slow right down to allow them to pass me.
But if I'm doing the speed limit and you're interesting in how many grains of dust are on my rear window, you'll get sweet **** all courtesy from me. :mad:

[rovercare]

Well why use the term " OLD HAG" that says more about your driving and attitude they you wish to own up to.
John.

"Old bat" actually, shows your obsvervation ability, seeing as we are making assumptions:p

[ecn226]

This X several million.
If I'm driving at significantly lower than the speed limit, or there's a long line of people hoping to overtake, I will gladly pull slightly off the road or even slow right down to allow them to pass me.
But if I'm doing the speed limit and you're interesting in how many grains of dust are on my rear window, you'll get sweet **** all courtesy from me. :mad:



I couldn't agree more. Some people really do need to learn some manners.

[Disco44]

If they are tailgating put your windscreen wipers on they should soon back off ,if they don't they are suicide jockeys.The disco 1's bottle is large enough to give them the message.
John.

[Disco44]

"Old bat" actually, shows your obsvervation ability, seeing as we are making assumptions:p

OLD BAT OLD HAG whats the difference nothing just my age showing.

[Tombie]

Keep it friendly guys..

[uninformed]

Rule 126

126. Keeping a safe distance behind vehicles
A driver must drive a sufficient distance behind a vehicle travelling in front of
the driver so the driver can, if necessary, stop safely to avoid a collision with
the vehicle.
Penalty: In the case of drivers of large vehicles, 10 penalty units;
In the case of drivers of vehicles other than large vehicles,
5 penalty units.



yes, and it is also illegal to go under the speed limit and hold up traffic etc, atleast it was when I did my test in Adelaide (I lost points for doing 60 in a 80 zone...didnt know it was a 80 zone) and IMO just as dangerous as tailgating.

I had 2 young girls race off next to me at lights, then jump in front as a gap had openned up (me in 110 with 1.8t trailer) then forget they were driving and start playing with the radio etc ( I could see them)..now they stopped accelerating at 50km/h in a 70 zone...I slowly get closer and flash my lights, as now traffic is passing me on the inside and I cant because of said traffic...in her wisdom she jumps on the brakes and gives me the finger...then gets back to 50 and sits there....and becasue of my rig I still cant pass her on the inside lane.....but hey, had I hit her from behind it would have been totally my fault....had I taken it to court Im sure her puppy dog eyes and tears of fear would have come out and I could have been in bigger trouble.....lucky for elec trailer brakes and dry weather.

some people are just going to be assholes

[Chucaro]

yes, and it is also illegal to go under the speed limit and hold up traffic etc, atleast it was when I did my test in Adelaide (I lost points for doing 60 in a 80 zone...didnt know it was a 80 zone) and IMO just as dangerous as tailgating.
.................................................. ......................................

I was under the impression that driving at 20 kmh under the speed limit is a punishable offense on certain segments of marked roads, including freeways and some highways,unless you are prevented from doing so by traffic or other conditions.
It be interesting to know the rules in all states, I read long ago that it is 20% under the speed limit was an offense and not 20 kph as long as there is no a line for slow traffic. :confused:

[shining]

I haven't read the whole thread in detail so apologies in advance....
Another fictitious concept that has had a run here is "Right of Way". There are many circumstances when one driver must "Give Way" to another driver. But there is no circumstance when a driver has "Right of Way" and can drive with impunity.

There are a plethora of users on the road with all sorts of reasons for driving the way they do. We have to learn to SHARE and be TOLERANT. Indeed with the best intentions I have made mistakes on the road and I don't expect anyone to be more perfect than me.
I like the maritime laws where negligence is ALWAYS shared between captains(to a greater or lesser extent). It is everyone's responsibility to avoid an incident.
If everyone drove with this in mind we would need less rules, police and no solicitors.

I have had some conversations with police about driving behaviours. The General Duties guys/gals would get no other work done if pinged every driving infraction.

Here endeth the lesson

[cewilson]

Had a good one today. A HR truck decided he wanted to be in front of me, so he pulled straight out in front of me whilst I was travelling downhill in the semi - I was loaded with timber on a flat deck with a rough weight of 40 ton.

I had to brake from approximately 90km/h down to 40km/h so I didn't get a new hood emblem.

When I had a go at him on UHF I was told that he doesn't give a ......, and then I was told if I had a problem he'd meet me in our yard - surprisingly enough he wasn't there when I arrived........

I only just pulled her up - didn't think I would!

[Mick_Marsh]

Another fictitious concept that has had a run here is "Right of Way". There are many circumstances when one driver must "Give Way" to another driver. But there is no circumstance when a driver has "Right of Way" and can drive with impunity.
A mentioned before.
Here is the text:
Obligation to give way
There are a number of rules requiring a driver to give way to another driver or a pedestrian.
However, under the Road Rules the other driver or pedestrian does not have a “right” of
way. Indeed, in some situations, a number of drivers may be required to give way to each
other, e.g. at an intersection with a stop sign or give way sign on more than 1 of the
intersecting roads. Similarly, although a driver may be required to give way to a pedestrian,
the pedestrian is required under rule 236(1) not to cause a traffic hazard by moving into
the driver’s path.

[Chucaro]

Ok, in Tasmania the rules said, Quote:

Go slower than the speed limit when:

1) Road conditions aren't good (when the roads are wet, gravel, narrow or winding)
2) Weather conditions aren't good (when there is fog or rain)
3) There is lots of traffic or pedestrians
4) You are tired, upset, worried or ill.

Point 4 it is interesting!
Should you drive under some of that conditions?

[Mick_Marsh]

I was under the impression that driving at 20 kmh under the speed limit is a punishable offense on certain segments of marked roads, including freeways and some highways,unless you are prevented from doing so by traffic or other conditions.
It be interesting to know the rules in all states, I read long ago that it is 20% under the speed limit was an offense and not 20 kph as long as there is no a line for slow traffic. :confused:
Urban myth.
Mind you, when I was tested for my licence, the instructor told me to drive ak 5km/h below the speed limit as the moment you go over, instant fail.
The assessor knocked three points off for "failing to maintain headway".

[Baggy]

Hi All
From what I can see is that the road is merging from two lanes into one lane.
Not sure if it's an overtaking lane .......but if so here in the west we have signage saying lanes merges in say 500 metres in most instances.

This joker didn't have a clue and should at least known the lanes were merging or at least know there is a truck in the left lane ahead and you can clearly see the road marking merging the lanes on the road.
I don't even think he realized that there was a car towing a van in front of the truck he was trying go past which made a bad situation worse.
His saving grace was luck, no traffic on the other side and the quick thinking of truck driver and car towing the van in pulling over to the side to assist in him getting by.
With buses my mate was hit by a bus two weeks before Christmas that pulled out while he was (like others mentioned) halfway along it's side.

Bus company sent him a letter saying it was his fault (std company letter) although witnesses and evidence proved it differently.
He just forwarded to his insurance company to sort out.


Baggy

[bee utey]

Australian road rules, February 2012 release, from here:

Site Browser Information (http://www.ntc.gov.au/viewpage.aspx'documentid=00794)


Part 11 Keeping left, overtaking and
other driving rules
Division 1 General
125 Unreasonably obstructing drivers or pedestrians
(1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another
driver or a pedestrian.
Offence provision.
Note Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle — see the
definition of drive in the dictionary.
(2) For this rule, a driver does not unreasonably obstruct the
path of another driver or a pedestrian only because:
(a) the driver is stopped in traffic; or
(b) the driver is driving more slowly than other vehicles
(unless the driver is driving abnormally slowly in the
circumstances).
Example of a driver driving abnormally slowly
A driver driving at a speed of 20 kilometres per hour on a length of road
to which a speed-limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies when there is
no reason for the driver to drive at that speed on the length of road.No mention of 20% under as "unreasonable".

Also in the SA drivers handbook:


Driving too slowly


Blocking or obstructing other road users is not only discourteous but potentially dangerous.


You must not drive so slowly that you obstruct the vehicle or vehicles following you. For example, driving at 20 km/h without a good reason where a speed limit of 80 km/h applies.

[Mick_Marsh]

bee utey,
being a regular driver some way south of you, if this rule applied for travelling at 80km/h in a 100km/h zone, about 80% of the Sth. Aus. drivers would be booked under that rule. The other 20% would be booked for passing on double white lines.
Especially on that Mt. Compass road.

[uninformed]

Urban myth.
Mind you, when I was tested for my licence, the instructor told me to drive ak 5km/h below the speed limit as the moment you go over, instant fail.
The assessor knocked three points off for "failing to maintain headway".

urban myth, funny I lost points for the same thing in my driving test, and the assessor quoted pretty much the same thing...I got caught out becasue there are lots of 60km/h and 80km/h double carrage ways in and around adeladie....I didnt see the speed sign.

how is it not dangerous for someone to be doing 20km/h under the speed limit for no good reason....

what does perplex me is the fact people can by LEGAL petrol scooters that can not do 80km/h then they try and sit to the side of the left lane like people can go around them....

regardless of all the petty wording of rules, I think it pretty clear that the vid that started this thread shows the passing trucky to be the dangerous driver....I think it would be unlikely the van and other truck to be found at fault...if they were it would be a shame :mad:

[bee utey]

how is it not dangerous for someone to be doing 20km/h under the speed limit for no good reason....



That question and the exact meaning of "unreasonable" can only be determined after the incident by a whole courtroom full of expensive lawyers...:twisted:

On the subject of "reasonable" speed, is it OK to slow down to below every posted advisory corner speed? Any modern passenger vehicle can add 30% easily to the advisory speed without a fuss.

[uninformed]

That question and the exact meaning of "unreasonable" can only be determined after the incident by a whole courtroom full of expensive lawyers...:twisted:

On the subject of "reasonable" speed, is it OK to slow down to below every posted advisory corner speed? Any modern passenger vehicle can add 30% easily to the advisory speed without a fuss.

This will be my last response to this thread as its just become the fun of keyboard warriors.....an advisory is just that, advice for all conditions...not a speed LIMIT.

You are well aware of this and now just arguing for the sake of argument...

[vnx205]

urban myth, funny I lost points for the same thing in my driving test, and the assessor quoted pretty much the same thing...I got caught out becasue there are lots of 60km/h and 80km/h double carrage ways in and around adeladie....I didnt see the speed sign.



Surely it is more likely that you actually lost the points for not noticing the speed sign. :)

[Mick_Marsh]

regardless of all the petty wording of rules, I think it pretty clear that the vid that started this thread shows the passing trucky to be the dangerous driver
I totally agree with you.
Why I point out the rules is because them's the rules in print.
I think they have been written by a bureaucratic committee with no concept of reality but them's the rules in black and white.
My opinion is no defence in a cort of law (or differences of opinion with M. Plod) because them's the rules and rulz is rulz.

[Mick_Marsh]

This will be my last response to this thread as its just become the fun of keyboard warriors.....an advisory is just that, advice for all conditions...not a speed LIMIT.

You are well aware of this and now just arguing for the sake of argument...Remember that Tasmanian add on speed limits.
"It's a limit, not a challenge."

[Disco44]

Keep it friendly guys..

Sorry Tombie I stand chastised
John.

[goingbush]

this is a youtube version of the clip on LROCV that Brad was referring to (it had a typo)

it looks like I was hogging the right lane but I was actually in the right to overtake a number of slower cars, Video has been reffered to NSW Highway partol by Goulburn LAC but still waiting to hear, Probably a logistics issue as the offence was NSW, the Hilux has ACT rego & I'm in Vic .

Bear in mind Cam is wide angle (thus distortion) so distances are close than they look, ....Ive learned not to swear when something like this happens as I still don't know how to bleep the audio track :confused:

I think I was lucky the Hilux didn't PIT the red car into me

Defender Dashcam near miss , Hilux Bogan - YouTube

[Chops]

G'day GB, too bad the lux didn't wipe himself out when he did that,, and probably all in an effort, just to overtake a Land Rover,, :eek:
It looks like you were actually moving along quite well, so he must have been hiking it.
Why do so many of them do stuff like that, it's frustrating. :(

[rovercare]

this is a youtube version of the clip on LROCV that Brad was referring to (it had a typo)

it looks like I was hogging the right lane but I was actually in the right to overtake a number of slower cars, Video has been reffered to NSW Highway partol by Goulburn LAC but still waiting to hear, Probably a logistics issue as the offence was NSW, the Hilux has ACT rego & I'm in Vic .

Bear in mind Cam is wide angle (thus distortion) so distances are close than they look, ....Ive learned not to swear when something like this happens as I still don't know how to bleep the audio track :confused:

I think I was lucky the Hilux didn't PIT the red car into me

Defender Dashcam near miss , Hilux Bogan - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_CTzhbXPOA)

Why were you not in the left lane prior to overtaking? Keep left unless overtaking

[goingbush]

Why were you not in the left lane prior to overtaking? Keep left unless overtaking

Mate! so this justifies the Bogan manouver ?? :bangin:

I was overtaking a long line of cars probably going about 105 - 108 , they were spread out over about 2 klm. its a wide angle lens - things look further than they are,

Are you saying I should pull in and out again then back in after I pass each car. ?
whose going to look like the idiot then ?

The law says to keep left unless overtaking , so apart from doing 3 k's over the limit what else was I doing wrong.

[rovercare]

Mate! so this justifies the Bogan manouver ?? :bangin:

I was overtaking a long line of cars probably going about 105 - 108 , they were spread out over about 2 klm. its a wide angle lens - things look further than they are,

Are you saying I should pull in and out again then back in after I pass each car. ?
whose going to look like the idiot then ?

The law says to keep left unless overtaking , so apart from doing 3 k's over the limit what else was I doing wrong.

Depends, was the "bogan" hilux drive behind you in the right lane whilst there was no vehicle in the left? if so, yes, you should of moved over

That was a long distance between vehicles going by the camera and if "bogan" was behind you, I believe you should of slipped to the left and let the faster car go past you

There is nothing wrong with changing lanes, that is the idea of keep left unless overtaking, not, I can see a car I'll be passing in about a minute, I'll just hang in the right lane

[Davo]

Doesn't matter. Nothing justifies driving dangerously like that Hilux.

[Mick_Marsh]

The Hilux driver was disobeying a road rule or two. The Landrover driver was disobeying two at least. Failing to keep left and exceeding the speed limit by more than three kilometres per hour.
They were both very naughty boys.

[goingbush]

Just for the record it was a 110 zone. The NSW and Vic police who studied the tape had no issues with my driving, I'm not denying I was 4 kph over, and yes ok I could have pulled back into the left sooner, but no mention of that by the cops. Ok if the Hilux driver had hit the red car me being there would have been a contributing factor but I doubt that if I'd come out alive that I would have been charged with speeding or culpable driving.

[bobslandies]

Just for the record it was a 110 zone. The NSW and Vic police who studied the tape had no issues with my driving, I'm not denying I was 4 kph over, and yes ok I could have pulled back into the left sooner, but no mention of that by the cops. Ok if the Hilux driver had hit the red car me being there would have been a contributing factor but I doubt that if I'd come out alive that I would have been charged with speeding or culpable driving.

The Hilux appears to be travelling at a higher speed than you. His lane change manouvre was dangerous and not smooth, he could easily have clipped the red car and you certainly would have had difficulty avoiding the aftermath.
The couple of kms/hr shown on the dashcam (low-high 111-114 seized on in hindsight by the experts here) would not have been obvious to you unless you had an audible preset speed warning overspeed indicator and anyway as such a dashcamera should not be being watched as it is not "an aid to navigation" like a gps that you can look at while driving (or does yours perform both functions?).

Had an accident occured and you did not have this evidence you would have been in significant trouble as the Hilux driver and his legal advisors and insurers would have tried to pin the whole thing on you.

After watching this and travelling the Hume and Pacific usually close to the speed limit (except when it's raining) I think a rear facing camera could also be a good addition:) - in your case it would have shown his approach speed too.

Bob

[Blknight.aus]

Just for the record it was a 110 zone. The NSW and Vic police who studied the tape had no issues with my driving, I'm not denying I was 4 kph over, and yes ok I could have pulled back into the left sooner, but no mention of that by the cops. Ok if the Hilux driver had hit the red car me being there would have been a contributing factor but I doubt that if I'd come out alive that I would have been charged with speeding or culpable driving.



after watching your vid, you were in the right hand land conducting an overtake of the red car, if you were in the left hand lane at that speed form the red car you would have been tailgating and driving in an unsafe manner.

Overtaking on a dual lane can be done with as little as 1/4Kph difference if the dual lanes are long enough.

[bobslandies]

Ahh! But, he wasn't overtaking. He was forced onto the other side of the road to avoid a collision with the fellow towing the camper who, by law, should have given way to him.

It's amazing what you pick up when you read the road rules. The printed road rules.

Back to the video that started this:

Professional heavy vehicle drivers have an obligation to operate their vehicles safely when travelling on the NSW road network. A heavy vehicle operating at 100 km/h travels 27 metres per second and the optimum reaction time for a driver is one and a half seconds.

What is the minimum travelling distance between long vehicles on NSW roads?
There are some minimum separation requirements under NSW road transport legislation. Rule 127 of the Road Rules 2008 requires that except when
travelling on a multi-lane road or in a built up area, a long vehicle (7.5 metres or longer) must maintain a minimum distance of 60 metres behind another
long vehicle.
In a gazetted road train area the minimum distance of separation is 200 metres. There is also a general duty to travel at a safe distance behind
another vehicle.
The minimum distance requirements do not apply when overtaking the vehicle in front. [Note that there is a general obligation to overtake safely.]

Penalties that may be applied. The penalty for breaching Rule 127 is $2,200.
In addition to minimum distance requirements there is a general prohibition against driving recklessly or in a manner or at a speed that is dangerous to the public. Severe criminal penalties including imprisonment may apply on conviction for dangerous driving.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/heavyvehicles/downloads/factsheet_tailgating.pdf

I imagine this Rule 127 also applies in Queensland although there could be the usual non-uniformity as referenced at the bottom:

ROAD RULES 2008 - REG 127

Keeping a minimum distance between long vehicles
127 Keeping a minimum distance between long vehicles

(1) The driver of a long vehicle must drive at least the required minimum distance behind another long vehicle travelling in front of the driver, unless the driver is:
(a) driving on a multi-lane road or any length of road in a built-up area, or
(b) overtaking.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
Note: "Built-up area", "length" of road, "multi-lane road" and "overtake" are defined in the Dictionary.
(2) In this rule:
"long vehicle" means a vehicle that, together with any load or projection, is 7.5 metres long, or longer.
Note: "Vehicle" includes a combination-see rule 15 (d).
"required minimum distance" means:
(a) for a road train that is behind a long vehicle-200 metres or, if another law of this jurisdiction specifies a different distance, that distance, or
(b) for a long vehicle other than a road train that is behind a long vehicle-60 metres or, if another law of this jurisdiction specifies a different distance, that distance.
"road train" has the same meaning as in the Road Transport (Mass, Loading and Access) Regulation 2005 .
Note: This definition is not uniform with the corresponding definition in rule 127 (2) of the Australian Road Rules . However, the definition in the Australian Road Rules allows the term to be defined by reference to another law of this jurisdiction. Different rules may apply in other Australian jurisdictions. Different definitions may apply in other Australian jurisdictions.

New South Wales Consolidated Regulations
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2008104/s127.html

So, the vehicle and caravan combination was likely to be over 7.5 metres long as was the following truck so the overtaker should not have been closer than 60 metres from the following truck - let alone attempt to overtake both as the left lane ended - given that he could have seen or known that the lane ended.

And yes, this stupid rule about the "merging" lane ending because sometimes the lane marking continues to the kerb and there is this idea that you are "changing" lanes (how do you change lanes when they end???).
This Rule now encourages many drivers (truck, bus and caravanners) to stay in the middle lane of three lane carriageways as they really may have to completely stop and let an endless stream of other vehicles pass if they "keep left" and come to a dead-end lane.

See:
page 121

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/downloads/road_users_handbook.pdf

Bob

[land864]

I need to get one of those dash cam things.

On Friday at the corner of Station St and Highbury rd at around 2.45 PM a woman rolled her Hyundai I 30 straight back into me at the lights. Unfortunately I was in the new Golf and not one of the Landies. When I saw her starting to roll back , I beeped the horn and then when she continued to , I held my hand on the horn. I think she went to sleep and forgot to apply the handbrake:mad: It was a manual and she was an older lady!! Nothing against the oldies , but!!!
When we pulled up around the corner she asked me how I did that , bang into her:eek:
Luckily I had someone else in the car who pointed out that she had rolled back into me. Turns out for insurance that he is not a reliable witness.
Anyway when I suggested we should call the police she still did not admit to rolling back into me and pointed out that there wasn't any damage to my car anyway:eek: On appearances it looks like she may have just bent the front number plate and broken the number plate surround. Considering she rolled back at least 1-1.5 m on a steep hill and made one helluva bang when she hit , it hopefully isn't more than that. I have still rung my insurer and let them know what happened. I got her license details. It goes to the PB on 6 Feb for a full check over and repair. My insurer will go her for the repairs.
Given this and a few recent incidents noted on here , I think it's a good idea to record each drive with one of these dash cam things.

Can I ask ; how much are they , where are they best bought from , do they plug into the cig lighter. How much will they record. I am guessing it just a matter of clear and reset at the end of each trip?

Pete

[land864]

Oh and sorry. As for the retrospective experts having a crack at goingbush.
Let me get this right , he's doing 114 kmh in a 110 zone , he is technically overtaking the Red car, albeit maybe not as quick as some , and the jackass in the Hilux thinks it's a great idea ; not to be just a little bit patient , to overtake on the inside in a potential blind spot , clearly exceed the speed limit and perform a manouver that I don't think too many of our traffic coppers wouldn't say was dangerous , bordering on culpable if it had all gone pear shaped and you want to have a crack at gb.
Give me a break :censored:

The idiot in the truck in the first vid and the moron in the Hilux should both be put off the road.

It is only a matter of time before their inpatience and agressive driving gets some one seriously hurt if not killed.

[goingbush]

Pete mine is a pricey $300 model, Blackvue DR400G HD , from ebay, Korea. it plugs into the cig lighter, the cord is long enough to go thru the dash. up the pillar trim and above the windscreen and to the camera which is stuck behind (in front) of the mirror, it records onto a 32g micro sd card, enough for about 10 hours hd, it records in 1 minuite files of about 35 mb each . also records speed , time & gps position. after the card is full it records over itself, exept for events like bumps & crashes, a G force sensor triggers and those events dont get re recorded over, you have to delete them manually. Anything happens on the road I take the sd card out at the end of that day and copy it to my laptop.

[Mick_Marsh]

Hey Pete,
Those dash cams vary a lot in price and features. I bought a GPS model for around $300 a few years ago. Recently, I bought some "camera only" ones for under $50 each.
goingbush's Blackview seems to be one of the better ones. It's been mentioned in quite a few threads.

Oh, if you study Einstein, you did crash into that woman's car. You and the rest of the world. It's all relative.
Oh, and in Melbourne, at about 38 degrees latitude south, you were travelling at about 1380km/h at the time of the accident. Speeding as well. Shame on you.

[Carnut1100]

I am going to get a dash cam myself very soon....thr amount of near misses caused by driver stupidity!!!!
I drive buses all day, and luckily most ate fitted with cameras, but the one I usually drive isn't so I'll be bringing my own...

I can't see the video that started the thread, but from the descriptions it seems that the overtaking truck had right of way (yes, if need be, you DO need to come to a stop if your lane is ending...) however it sounds like he was being a tool and not driving reasonably at the same time.
Would be interesting seeing how the blame fell if there had been a collision...

Here in Tas we have "merge right" signs before the overtake lane ends, from that point the keep left unless overtaking does not apply and you can merge when safe to do so.
If however you reach the dotted lines without merging, you MUST give way. Even if you have to stop.

Someone mentioned buses pulling out....well that is now uniform between states.
The bus must indicate for a minimum of five seconds before pulling out.
Drivers MUST give way to that bus if safe to do so (obviously not if they are already level or so close that they cannot safely stop in time, hence the five seconds of indicator before the bus can move).
I have sat for almost a minute waiting to pull out...and I've even had police vehicles ignore this rule.
Now I indicate for five seconds then start to roll out at walking speed. I will not be intruding on the lane until my indicator has been on for twenty seconds or so, but from then on the gap is gonna get smaller and smaller and if you hit my bus I got cameras to nail you with. If I've been indicating and creeping for twenty seconds you're either asleep or an arsehole....

Regarding driving below the speed limit....it is a LIMIT not a mandatory speed!
You DO have the right to travel slower, and the example of obstruction given in most road rules is doing 20 in an 80 zone.
Many times I have been driving an older truck or van that wasnt happy at the limit, or been nursing a dying car home, or many other reasons why I was travelling below the limit.
I firmly believe in courtesy however, and when I must drive slowly I pull over when I can to let people past. I will give short shrift to anyone who says I MUST go at the limit however.
Some years ago my father was driving the family van and did not see the P plate that had been left up at the back, as a headrest obscured it from him.
While doing 90 he was pulled over for speeding then when the officer found he wasn't a P plater he tried to book him for obstructing traffic (completely missing the potential $80 fine for displaying a P plate wrongly....idiot!) and the matter went up to Inspector level where it was absolutely made clear that he had every right to be doing 90 in a 100 zone and the constable made a formal apology.
UNLESS IT IS SIGNPOSTED ON AN INDIVIDUAL ROAD THERE IS NO MINIMUM SPEED LIMIT.
Courtesy saves lives though.

As for tailgating, you sit on my arse and you are reducing the amount of brakes I can use if I need to stop therefore I need a bigger stopping gap therefore I will slow down to create a suitable buffer.
If you back off I will resume normal speed or I will keep that buffer until you pass me.
Pass me dangerously and you WILL be reported to the police.

After several years as a professional driver I have little patience left for acts of pure idiocy....I don't sweat the small stuff, and we all make mistakes, but do something really dumb or aggressive and I don't have patience any more, I've had too many near misses.
Time, date, rego number, all go to the police. Might not result in charges without evidence but Mr Plod is gonna be talking to you and it might calm you down.

[goingbush]

Ive heard arguments against dash cams, something like 'they can incriminate you too' so be it if your doing the wrong thing,

One thing for sure , if your in the right they can make your life (or the burden on your family) a lot easier.

This case the Discovery 4 definitely at fault
warning in advance, put your cup of tea down

Land Rover LR4 overtake fail - YouTube

[land864]

Thanks

I will track one down.

For now maybe I can just set up the mobile to record a clear view?

I would need one to swap from vehicle to vehicle.

I have a few different drives and am also hopefully just about to get some volunteer work driving a 6 Pallet Tautliner after hours for a Food Charity mob.
Given the extra miles and in a truck it might be a good investment.

Pete

[catch-22]

please please please take this d**k heads license away for ever. Idiot...