Baby Seat in 2012 Puma

[DefenderJim]

So with the first born now well on his way I thought it was time to think about how we are going to travel with him. The Puma (2012 110) manual just says car seats must be properly secured and to ensure child seat is appropriate..yada yada, no information on mounting points.

So question is, does the Puma have any or do we need to get some put in?

Cheers
Jim

[gng1]

Congratulations! The Defender has no child restraint anchor points. You'll have to have them fitted and certified as a modification. We've done it to two pumas now. In the first one, a 5 seater, Opposite Lock installed a CRAB bar across about a foot from the top back of the rear seats. The anchor points were on the bar. This did reduced boot space but it was fairly easy to unbolt the bar when required. We just traded that vehicle in for a 7 seater and obviously a CRAB bar would not be an option as it would be in the way of the third row passengers. Auto Extras in Brisbane installed anchor points instead of the two load hooks and another one on the floor of the load space in the middle for the middle seat. That cost a bit extra because they said it required extra work to reinforced it underneath whereas i gather they were prepared to certify the load hooks (replaced with child points) without further modification. We got the centre one installed because we had to use the centre seat on our last Defender to fit the baby capsule. It was just a bit to long to fit behind the passenger seat. Hope this helps! Good luck!

[p38arover]

Do the current seats have ISOfix child seat mounts like later Landies? If so, you'd have to import a seat as they aren't approved here as yet. What about the latest rear folding seats in the load compartment?

[DefenderJim]

Sorry probably should have mentioned, mine is only a 5 seater.

[Samblers]

You need the CRAB bar. Search my posts. We've got two gremlins in the back of our 7-seater. Supply/install/certify cost me $600 here in WA

Congrats!

[Babs]

Is it a late model, it's not approved but definitely more than strong enough is the tie down points, and they line up right in the middle of the seat perfect.

I've had mine checked out and they are reinforced as standard, though I have not paid a ridiculous amount of money for someone to certify it. They definitely are strong enough.

And before anyone gives the Yada yada heaps of guys are using them in silence, and I did get professional opinions before I settled to restrain my children with them. :) later model vehicles may be different????

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[gng1]

Don't get a CRAB bar if you can get load point and/or floor points certified. The bar gets in the way. Here is a pic of the point installed in lieu of the load hook. fully certified and legal - here in Queensland. It would have been relatively inexpensive as well. We paid about $700 all up but most of that related to the centre floor point installation. For some reason the pic is sideways and I can only do one pic. I'll do a separate post with a pic of the centre point.

[gng1]

And here is the centre point...

[gng1]

Do the current seats have ISOfix child seat mounts like later Landies?

You're kidding, aren't you?!:)

[gcl381]

Hi Jim

I'm waiting for a new puma to have child restraints fitted at the moment & was pretty pleased to hear that the dealer I was buying from had organised mounting points on the back of the rear seats for a previous customer. I'm buying through landrover macarthur and I'm pretty sure Jax Tyres are the mob doing the fitting (funny that I tyre place would be involved in the work but there you go). I've had to pay for an engineering certificate as well but I reckon it's worth it to avoid having a bar across the back. Once I pick her up on the 8th I'll post some picks if you like. I'm hoping it's a neat job.

Cheers,

Gav

[DefenderJim]

Hi Jim

I'm waiting for a new puma to have child restraints fitted at the moment & was pretty pleased to hear that the dealer I was buying from had organised mounting points on the back of the rear seats for a previous customer. I'm buying through landrover macarthur and I'm pretty sure Jax Tyres are the mob doing the fitting (funny that I tyre place would be involved in the work but there you go). I've had to pay for an engineering certificate as well but I reckon it's worth it to avoid having a bar across the back. Once I pick her up on the 8th I'll post some picks if you like. I'm hoping it's a neat job.

Cheers,

Gav


Thanks Gav, some picks of that would be great when you get it back

Jim

[gcl381]

Shall do - counting down the days...

[Samblers]

I was initially worried that the crab bar would get in the way, but its pretty close the back of the rear seats... Plus the seats will always be fitted and it means the attachment points are up off the floor allowing you to fit a drawer system if required. It unbolts easily too.

I don't think the floor-mounted points were allowable here in WA...?

Anyway, just more things to consider :)

[MC90]

I had a pair of floor mounted anchor points fitted to a Puma 90 by WesbarVanquip in Perth. The anchor points were fixed on the floor and through a steel crossmember on the underside. Perhaps an alternative solution to the CRAB bar for you.

[BlueWagon]

So with the first born now well on his way I thought it was time to think about how we are going to travel with him. The Puma (2012 110) manual just says car seats must be properly secured and to ensure child seat is appropriate..yada yada, no information on mounting points.

So question is, does the Puma have any or do we need to get some put in?

Cheers
Jim

Hi Jim

As others have said the Puma's commercial rating doesn't require the manufacturer to fit the child bolt. This thread has been up before and you need to be aware that in SA the system appears to be a bit different from the advice you will get from members in other states. I had a child seat bolt installed in the rear floor for my County 110 15 years ago by the local dealer in Port Lincoln. Since then child seat bolts have become mandatory in new cars so I investigated why I wasn't getting one when I bought a new defender as I thought I was getting conned. However, the new defenders definitely don't come with them and you will need to get one fitted. Willshire motor trimmers Seat Belts, Child Restraints, Anchor Points - Adelaide Motor Trimmers (http://www.willshire.com.au/seatbelts.htm) on South Road, Marleston did an excellent job on my TD5 defender in 2003 and then again in 2009 with my 2009 Puma. Both times it was under $100. For the TD5 they put the bolt (with a plate) in the floor behind the back seat (like I had in County110) and in my current Puma 110 wagon they put it in the side of the wheel arch box thingy (see pics).
I recommend having your child seat installed behind the front passenger seat. If you are driving you can then see the child out of the corner of your eye and can pass water bottles etc at traffic lights or when stopped without having to get out of your seat. More importantly if the child is forward facing, they can see you all the time. Of course if it is a newborn and your partner is always travelling with you and the child you might prefer the seat behind the driver so that your partner has easier access to the child whilst you are driving. However my experience has been that the older children require the attention while you are driving (food, snacks, toys etc) and not the babies.
Having the seat in the centre position is a major pain in the a$## for getting a child in and out of the seat for a high vehicle like the defender.
With Willshire I just took the seat in and told them where I wanted it and they installed the bolt to fit the seat.

I installed the Milford cargo barrier after the seat bolt because at the time Milford hadn't developed the cargo barrier yet for the Puma. Everything works fine but removing the child seat (eg for travelling on a plane or in a friends car, etc) is more fiddly and awkward than it needs to be and takes 10 minutes rather than 2 minutes because of the close proximity of the bolt/strap clip and the cargo barrier.

Hope this helps
Mark

[gcl381]

Hi Jim & everyone else

Well I'm pretty excited - just got home in the defender. Can't get the smile off my face! Which is all nice, but I promised picks of the seat bolt install. See the attached pics (the first is a shot with one of my best mates). I'm pretty happy with the job. It's nice & neat - maybe lr can get around to doing something similar themselves. The job itself wasn't that expensive but the engineering certificate was not cheap. Adrian at Landrover Macarthur was the guy that organised the job & he said he's happy for people to call if they're interested in getting details of the engineering firm. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Gav

[jimr1]

:) Hi jim ,i've been reading the posts with great interest . The fact that there are no fixing points , for your baby seat is a good piont .I think that most modern cars have child restraintpionts as standdard . The ones i've used for my grandchildren were just a clip held by a bolt.. My question is this ? Why can't you use the seat belt fixing point on the floor . as it is designed to restrain an adult ;) ...regards jimr1 ..

[Tomo]

Those anchor points on the seat back look excellent! I agree, Land Rover need to do this from the factory........
I installed what they call a Defender bar, which is very similar to a CRAB bar. It is much more cumbersome! I wish I knew that was possible beforehand.....

Cheers



Hi Jim & everyone else

Well I'm pretty excited - just got home in the defender. Can't get the smile off my face! Which is all nice, but I promised picks of the seat bolt install. See the attached pics (the first is a shot with one of my best mates). I'm pretty happy with the job. It's nice & neat - maybe lr can get around to doing something similar themselves. The job itself wasn't that expensive but the engineering certificate was not cheap. Adrian at Landrover Macarthur was the guy that organised the job & he said he's happy for people to call if they're interested in getting details of the engineering firm. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Gav

[gng1]

Hi Jim & everyone else

Well I'm pretty excited - just got home in the defender. Can't get the smile off my face! Which is all nice, but I promised picks of the seat bolt install. See the attached pics (the first is a shot with one of my best mates). I'm pretty happy with the job. It's nice & neat - maybe lr can get around to doing something similar themselves. The job itself wasn't that expensive but the engineering certificate was not cheap. Adrian at Landrover Macarthur was the guy that organised the job & he said he's happy for people to call if they're interested in getting details of the engineering firm. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Gav
Thanks for posting the photos! This is the best solution I've seen. This solution would be well worth seeking out, except perhaps if you were planning on installing a cargo barrier - then it might be a pain to access the anchor points. Definitely would be the best solution for a 7 seater puma.

I like the colour combo - which green is that?

[gcl381]

Hi gng1

I think it's pretty neat too. The cargo barrier will definitely be an issue but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Kenswick Green's the colour - I reckon it looks alright with the white roof.

Cheers,

Gav

[patclan]

I like it a lot, but I better hide this post from the misses, we have a baby due in May and I have been telling her that a Defender is no place for a baby.

On a serious note the back of the seat is a great solution I think, that said not sure what holds it the back of the seats seem quite flimsy, alternatively I have the third row seats removed and was just going to use the seat belt anchor point bolt hole to mount the seat anchor and use an extension to the child seat strap. That sounded more complicated than it should have. But if the load restraint holes are strong enough then that could be another option.

More alternatives to the big bar in the back is good I think.

Pat

[Babs]

Hi Jim & everyone else

Well I'm pretty excited - just got home in the defender. Can't get the smile off my face! Which is all nice, but I promised picks of the seat bolt install. See the attached pics (the first is a shot with one of my best mates). I'm pretty happy with the job. It's nice & neat - maybe lr can get around to doing something similar themselves. The job itself wasn't that expensive but the engineering certificate was not cheap. Adrian at Landrover Macarthur was the guy that organised the job & he said he's happy for people to call if they're interested in getting details of the engineering firm. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Gav

Very neat job. I like the idea of the middle seat, I can only use the two ends ATM.

Who did the job and what was the dollars?
I don't need the engineer cert.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[tuffrangie]

Anyone explored the idea of using reinforced roof mount bolts at the rear? If it can hold the roof down, surely it will hold a small child in a stack, after all it is using in paralell with the seat belt itself. And if the roof is coming off in a crash, then the bolt strength is the least of your worries.

Rob

[Babs]

Who did the dealer use for fitment?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[frantic]

With a load barrier its alomst the same to fit the seat, just slacken the strap on the kids seat , fold the seat forward your fitting to , attach the clip to the seat back, lift seat back up and then tighten straps on car seat(before or after you thread the seatbelt depending on the cars seat/capsule design).
The roof does not have a strong enough point to secure a load/kid unlike some hatchbacks which have points there as it's structure supports the hatch.

P.s isofix are illegal to use in Oz BUT and it's a long but they may be changing the laws to allow isofix as well as a bolt combined in Oz. That but has been a maybe for several years back to 05-06 when i was looking for a seat for my 3rd child and is still a maybe as we just got a new seat for our baby. Also when looking at seats go look at their crep ratings to help you get a good one. http://www.crep.com.au/

[Babs]

Who did the dealer use for fitment?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

I left out - PLEASE, helps if I use my manners:p:D

[Tomo]

Babs,
See below, this was on page 2.......

Hi Jim & everyone else

Well I'm pretty excited - just got home in the defender. Can't get the smile off my face! Which is all nice, but I promised picks of the seat bolt install. See the attached pics (the first is a shot with one of my best mates). I'm pretty happy with the job. It's nice & neat - maybe lr can get around to doing something similar themselves. The job itself wasn't that expensive but the engineering certificate was not cheap. Adrian at Landrover Macarthur was the guy that organised the job & he said he's happy for people to call if they're interested in getting details of the engineering firm. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Gav

[gcl381]

Sorry Babs - been busy with work the last few days. The dealer used Jax tyres right behind the dealership as they're owned/connected to an engineering firm. The official name and address listed on the compliance certificate is:
Aaron Automotive Pty Ltd
5/5-7 Yarmouth Place
Narellan
NSW
2567
Ph 0246485722.

If you don't get any joy dealing direct you could always try the dealership itself (ask for Adrian).

Cheers,

Gavin

[Babs]

Sorry Babs - been busy with work the last few days. The dealer used Jax tyres right behind the dealership as they're owned/connected to an engineering firm. The official name and address listed on the compliance certificate is:
Aaron Automotive Pty Ltd
5/5-7 Yarmouth Place
Narellan
NSW
2567
Ph 0246485722.

If you don't get any joy dealing direct you could always try the dealership itself (ask for Adrian).

Cheers,

Gavin

Cheers, appreciated. :)

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[apple_bob]

Hi all, have just purchased a 2011 130 dual cab and have been looking at all the different options for fitting child restraint anchor points! I like the idea of fitting them to the rear backs of the seat. Does any one know if this can be done in Melbourne? Cheers Jeff

[Whippit]

Has anybody had the back of the seat child anchor points fitted to a 110 Puma in Victoria?

Also I don't get the need for certified child anchor points when the seat belt is used on most child seats and will more than capably hold the child and the seat in place.

[portafilter]

i have, i had one fitted to the centre seat when the cargo barrier went in. seems fine, especially since the seat belt is built into the seat now, the seat must be designed to take those loads. 2007 puma.

[Pickles2]

How are these issues resolved in a new "90"?
Cheers, Pickles.

[Whippit]

Portafilter who fitted the anchor point? And could I ask what it cost?

[portafilter]

pretty sure it was these guys V Group Holdings (http://www.vgroup.com.au/) sorry i cant remember how much, i also brought a cargo barrier off them as well.

[zwitter]

Hi apple_bob

130s are a bit different. In NSW they have a rule that the mount must be accessible without moving the seat so the fastening hook can be undone. This rules out the back of the seats and almost everything else as they can not be reached other than by undoing the seat hold back bolts etc.

I mounted a large aluminium bar across behind the seats and had viewed by an engineer who said strong enough but could not be certified due to above. Has been there for 7 years.

My problem now is kids growing up and want a lap / sash belt for the centre seat. May have to get the engineers involved this time.

James

[btudd]

Cheers, appreciated. :)

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Did anyone find a place in Melbourne/Victoria that could do the install of the anchor points on the seats?

[alien]

When we where looking at what to do with our anchor points I was informed the seat frame was not suitable for use with floor mounts in Victoria.
I was told it is to do with downward forces on the internal frame in an incident.


As we have 5 seats and rear draw I went for a CRAB bar and a barrier was built to suit both.
It may not suit all but it works for us.
This anchor point is more critical for the younger folk who are harnessed into their seat, the child seat is then tethered to this point to remove forward movement.
We used Vehicle Conversions - Wheelchair, Seating, Cargo Barriers, Child Safety Seats. (http://www.jamiesonautofit.com.au/index.html)

[btudd]

Has anybody had the back of the seat child anchor points fitted to a 110 Puma in Victoria?

Also I don't get the need for certified child anchor points when the seat belt is used on most child seats and will more than capably hold the child and the seat in place.



There is a now a company in Melbourne who will install and provide the modification plate. They have kits ready to install. Anchor point installed in 3 seats is approx. $900 including modification plate.


Contact WilliamTaylor(VASS No 2031) ASHWOOD VIC 3147
Mob: 0404 281 193 Email: wjtaylor007@optusnet.com.au (wjtaylor007@optusnet.com.au)

[doctorjuniper]

Hey Gav how did you go with the anchor points?