OILS AIN'T OILS - R380

[ugu80]

I've used what is now called Penrite Pro Gear 70W-75 in my 1995 Def 130 R380 gearbox. I have lately seen many recommending Castrol Syntrans 75W-85. As the Castrol is a different viscosity to the Penrite I ask if any person with far greater knowledge than I of such things could make comment or recommendations between the two (afaik the lighter 70W was desirable for the gearbox oil pump).

[incisor]

the castrol syntrans 75-85 offering is by far the best oil i ever found for the r380. much better than anything else i tried.

used it in defenders and in v8 discovery after using vmx80 and a few other things.

the caveat i found was that when switching to syntrans that it took a month or so for the gains to make themselves really apparent.

even used the excess that i had laying round in an old hi-ace gearbox and the difference was amazing..

[swivelrat]

Im using VMX 80 which seems to work both well in hot and cold conditions in 95' 130, keen to know what sort of difference is worth the $'s??
Cheers

[tonic]

I agree with Inc, as i bought my 98 110 with a 240k on the clock and from a young bloke with no idea, there was a lot to fix.

One thing I had a problem with was changing gears when cold and then when hot coming down from 5 to 4 and sometimes from 3 to 2.

Even thought it needed a set of synchro rings, since changing to castrol syntrans 75-85 the gear changing problems have since gone with only the occasional clip going back down.

As Inc said, it did take a while to see the differences and at first I though I had made a mistake. I serviced the 110 just before a trip to Fraser with GCLRO in October, no differences, but after running around Fraser it all came good. Thinking about changing to fresh now that it is working better.

Will still rebuild box as part of my long term plans for extended trips, but for now it is running heaps better on syntrans 75-85.

[justinc]

'Progear' is the old 'syngear', a very good oil IME.

JC

[outback jeff]

the castrol syntrans 75-85 offering is by far the best oil i ever found for the r380. much better than anything else i tried.

used it in defenders and in v8 discovery after using vmx80 and a few other things.

the caveat i found was that when switching to syntrans that it took a month or so for the gains to make themselves really apparent.

even used the excess that i had laying round in an old hi-ace gearbox and the difference was amazing..

Hi Inc, would you also recommend using the castrol syntrans 75-85 in the LT77 Defender Gearbox, or is there something better for the LT77?

Cheers Jeff

[incisor]

i have used it in lt95 and lt85 boxes with great results but have never owned an lt77 so have no experience i can recount sorry

but i would be trying it if i had one

heard people say it can eat shims but that has not been my experience

[outback jeff]

i have used it in lt95 and lt85 boxes with great results but have never owned an lt77 so have no experience i can recount sorry

but i would be trying it if i had one

heard people say it can eat shims but that has not been my experience

Thanks Inc, I should get my gearbox back next week from being rebuilt , so I will also the bloke at the shop (it's a land rover shop) what he would recommend and see it he know anything about castrol syntrans.

Cheers Jeff

[djam1]

Does anyone know if you can use syntrans in the LT230 just to keep commonality with oil that you carry.
I was always told to use synrax but it means I must carry both types when travelling.

[Disco44]

I'm going to ask the Guru Blknight...Dave what is your recommendation? In other words what's in my boxes?
John.

[460cixy]

What's every one paying for the castrol syntrans 75-85 ? Really ****ed me off to find you can only get it on litre containers or 20litre drums I just don't use enough of it to warrant buying 20 litres

[uninformed]

I buy the 20lt drum....why not? you are going to use it, and along with a good quality drum pump its so easy to pump into all the points. So much cheaper than buying 1lt from auto stores. Go to your local truck supply. Here on the Gold Coast, Gibbs are the castrol agent, cheapest place I could find.....by $100 a drum :o

[460cixy]

30 bucks a litre here is just insanity

[rick130]

Does anyone know if you can use syntrans in the LT230 just to keep commonality with oil that you carry.
I was always told to use synrax but it means I must carry both types when travelling.


I'd use a 75W-90 or heavier, the LT230 gets bloody hot and there's bugger all oil in there to start with.

It's common with your diff oils, remember ;)

[rick130]

What's every one paying for the castrol syntrans 75-85 ? Really ****ed me off to find you can only get it on litre containers or 20litre drums I just don't use enough of it to warrant buying 20 litres

Haven't bought any for a long time, but it's only three litres that should last 20,000km so isn't a big impost in the scheme of things.

Motul Gear 300 is around that $30/litre mark too, and it's good stuff :)

[rick130]

Thanks Inc, I should get my gearbox back next week from being rebuilt , so I will also the bloke at the shop (it's a land rover shop) what he would recommend and see it he know anything about castrol syntrans.

Cheers Jeff


I'd use it rather than an ATF ;)

[uninformed]

30 bucks a litre here is just insanity

Mate, thats pretty much what it is here on the GC for 1lt pots....If you go to a truck supply and by a 20lt drum, you should get it for about 2/3 that rate. X that by 20 you save $200

[460cixy]

It's a shame it's not valvoline as that's where we get all our fluids for work come from. When I was working at a ford dealer they used castrol and no one misses a slice from a cut loaf

[rick130]

It's a shame it's not valvoline as that's where we get all our fluids for work come from. When I was working at a ford dealer they used castrol and no one misses a slice from a cut loaf


Valvoline Duragear 75W-85 ;)

[460cixy]

How's it stack up against syntrans? I have already ordered the castrol anyhow

[rick130]

I've never used it myself but JC uses it in his workshop and says it's good stuff.

[460cixy]

Prolly a lot cheaper too I guess

[incisor]

Valvoline Duragear 75W-85 ;)

i personally found it didn't work anywhere near as well.

mr put some in my defender box during a service and the box went backwards compared to how it was 2 months earlier so i drained it and put syntrans back in it and it came good again after a few weeks.

was much better than the nulon offering tho

[rick130]

i personally found it didn't work anywhere near as well.

mr put some in my defender box during a service and the box went backwards compared to how it was 2 months earlier so i drained it and put syntrans back in it and it came good again after a few weeks.

was much better than the nulon offering tho

JC has said they can be really idiosyncratic, some don't take to Duragear or any other MTF and they seem to like ATF, but from a wear POV I'd rather have an MTF of some description over an ATF.

[460cixy]

I have a sneaking suspicion that mines got multitrax in it at present I can't remember it's been so long and shifts ok except first to second if I hurry it. But it's been in there a while about 6 years but not a whole lot of kilometres

[sashadidi]

Valvoline Duragear 75W-85 ;)

As its GL4 could it be used in the Puma Getrag gearbox?????

[rick130]

As its GL4 could it be used in the Puma Getrag gearbox?????

The BOT130 and whatever it's been superseded with are a 75W-90.

Redline MT90, Amsoil MTG and a few others fit the bill.
MTG in particular has a very good reputation in the US now for slick shifting in various gearboxes.

Castrol Syntrax and Motul Gear 300 are dual rated GL-4/5 but bronze safe and very, very good MTF's.

[sashadidi]

What about this oil which is available in New Zealand. We have a very limited choice and Castrol Bot is NZ$120 a litre!!!!!!

Fuchs Titan Sintofluid 75W-80 GL-5 MTF Synthetic - Synthetic Oil Europe (http://syntheticoil-europe.eu/manual-transmission-transaxle-synchromesh-fluid/63-fuchs-titan-sintofluid-75w-80-gl-5.html)
Its recommended for
FORD MSC200-C
FORD MSC200-C2
FORD MSC200-C3

as is the Castrol BOT 130
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_south_africa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/t/BOT_130M_TDS.pdf

I appreciate your advice

[rick130]

I'm not sure what's so special about BOT130, other than it's a long life fluid and I don't know whether the MT82 is so special either.

I started asking around when the gearboxes first stated appearing, Dave Ashcroft was one, and it uses conventional bronze synchro faces, etc. so I'm not sure if there really is a need for a 'special' fluid, but as far as I'm aware no one's been brave enough to run something not 'approved'.

It's supposedly a slightly different gearbox, but the MT82 used in US Mustangs has been a problem child and Ford changed the oil spec there from a 75W-90 to a 75W(80) oil for a dual clutch semi auto, similar to the Fuchs oil you've listed. (FWIW the Mustang g/box is assembled in China, and the Land Rover 'box in the UK)

The Fuchs fluid might be worth a go, they blend very good oils and NZ doesn't have the stupid high ambients we are currently experiencing here which is a further plus.

[outback jeff]

Hi all,

Is Castrol syntrans 75-85, also suitable for the transfer case or is there something better.

Cheers Jeff

[nedflanders]

Hi, reading this thread with interest, has anyone ever taken a before and after temperature readings for the various oils. Mine gets a bit warm and was wondering if there's anything I can do.

[rick130]

Hi all,

Is Castrol syntrans 75-85, also suitable for the transfer case or is there something better.

Cheers Jeff


Use what you're using in your diffs ;)

The t/case gets very, very hot and has a limited oil volume and according to the tribologists (oil chemists/blenders) I've spoken to, gears last longer with heavier fluids.

We use lighter oils for easier shifting or where they provide a multiple purpose, eg. gears and hydraulics in big off road machinery.

[outback jeff]

Use what you're using in your diffs ;)

The t/case gets very, very hot and has a limited oil volume and according to the tribologists (oil chemists/blenders) I've spoken to, gears last longer with heavier fluids.

We use lighter oils for easier shifting or where they provide a multiple purpose, eg. gears and hydraulics in big off road machinery.

Hi Rick, I haven't got to the diffs yet, Ive just had the gearbox re-built, so I've done the gearbox, now I want to replace the transfer, then I'll do the diffs, also need to service the engine and change the coolant. I can only do one at a time as funds permit.

I did get a print out from the Castrol supplier that recommended what oil to use in each, i'll have to find it and have a look, it's in my work ute somewhere.

i really should start a thread in the Members Rides section.

Cheers Jeff

[uninformed]

Syntrax in lt230 and rover diff.

[bismillah]

In the R380 is raccomanded the MTF94 oil.:)

[rick130]

In the R380 is raccomanded the MTF94 oil.:)

Can't get it in Australia anymore and in my experience Syntrans 75W-85 works better/has a longer life as it's a full synthetic oil versus Texaco's MTF94 being a semi-syn oil ;)

[2stroke]

I tried VMX 75w85 today, maybe slightly better shift, all quiet. Seems to be both difficult and expensive to get Syntrans. I'd rather wash the ATF out with VMX than the Syntrans anyway. Is the synthetic stuff that much better, also Castrol still list ATF for the R380?

[incisor]

Is the synthetic stuff that much better

YEP!

[rick130]

I tried VMX 75w85 today, maybe slightly better shift, all quiet. Seems to be both difficult and expensive to get Syntrans. I'd rather wash the ATF out with VMX than the Syntrans anyway. Is the synthetic stuff that much better, also Castrol still list ATF for the R380?

In my experience, yes.
I didn't care for the shift performance of VMX 75W-80 the one time I tried it until I added an ester friction modifier to it, then it was fine.

Super Crap usually have Syntrans 75W-85 on the shelf.
Most Castrol stockists I've seen usually have it, or they can order it in.

If you look at the Castrol selector it has a number beside the recommendation of ATF and when you scroll down to the bottom of the page it says something like "for towing/extreme usage use Syntrans 75W-85"

If you enter in your engine as a TD5 rather than a Tdi it just says 'gearbox, Syntrans 75W-85', or it used to, it's been a couple of years since I've used it.

A big parts wholesaler/retailer like Bursons would have it, or you could use Redline 75W-85 which they also stock or can order in.

Failing that, find a bike shop that stocks Motul and get some Gear 300.
You can use that in your gearbox, t/case and diffs, it's an amazing fluid but you may need to mortgage your house if you buy enough to do all compartments :(

[460cixy]

Off topic but how does the 85-140 stand up in an lt230 ?

[rick130]

Off topic but how does the 85-140 stand up in an lt230 ?

A few of us use 80W-140, or I was using a blend of 75W-90/80W-140 for a long time too.

A 75W-110 would be about ideal for the t/case I'd reckon, but only one company in Oz blends that viscosity (that I'm aware of) and the additive package doesn't tolerate water inclusion at all :(

IMO an 80W-140 is ideal for the Sals if you are running a thick cast or plate steel diff cover.
The Sals runs hot and if you are using a heavy diff cover you are substantially reducing heat transfer.

I realise heavier oils run hotter than lighter ones, but if you can't get the heat away you need the extra viscosity to combat the retained heat and subsequent oil thinning.

[460cixy]

I'm all ready useing it in my diffs and swivels as I had a heap left over from my old patrol only thing I'm concerned about is the heavy oil in the transfer in Canberra winters but I guess it would come up to temp pretty quick

[bismillah]

Motul Gear 300 in a competition oil, can be used in our humble car and changed as schedule?

I ask it because once I heard that all the competition oil in general are designed to say in grade for a short period and they have no additives. This include not only trasmission oil but also engine one, etc. So if we think that buying the ultmate copetition extreme oil for our car we are doing a good think we are wrong

[rick130]

I'm all ready useing it in my diffs and swivels as I had a heap left over from my old patrol only thing I'm concerned about is the heavy oil in the transfer in Canberra winters but I guess it would come up to temp pretty quick

Have a Patrol too so I wanted to standardise fluids and we have about the same winters as you, -6*, -7* isn't uncommon here overnight in the colder months.

The 80W-140 has never been a problem.

[rick130]

Motul Gear 300 in a competition oil, can be used in our humble car and changed as schedule?

I ask it because once I heard that all the competition oil in general are designed to say in grade for a short period and they have no additives. This include not only trasmission oil but also engine one, etc. So if we think that buying the ultmate copetition extreme oil for our car we are doing a good think we are wrong

Gear 300 is fine to use, the additive package Motul use is fine for 'normal' service intervals but I wouldn't go over 20,000km in an R380 gearbox anyway.

One of the reasons I like Gear 300 is that the Viscosity Index (VI) is extremely high, meaning that it is more fluid than Syntrans at 0*C yet has a higher viscosity @ 100*C.
I normally don't like high VI oils as they tend to shear rapidly in use, but the VII Motul use must be similar to the one Castrol in Germany developed a few years back that mimics a base oil yet acts as a VII.
Very trick.

Syntrans is past it's best at that 20,000km mark too, and yet it's fine in heavy truck transmissions such as Volvo up to 400,000km.




Some pure race engine oils have reduced/no detergency (although esters as used by Redline and Motul have a natural detergent action) to reduce the chances of the ash component creating a detonation problem during combustion.
Older mineral based race oils in particular were very heavily additised and the additives they had were 'used up' extremely quickly so shouldn't be used for normal service intervals.

Here in Australia Penrite is a very well known blender of high quality lubricants and one of their 'race' spec gear oils isn't really suitable for 4WD use even though it's a very good diff oil as the additive package is soluble in water, otherwise I'd use it.

[djam1]

Rick thanks for your input on this post
Just to clarify do you think its appropriate to use the following in a TD5 Defender diffs and transfer case
Penrite Oil - A Better Class Of Oil (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=4&id_products=372)

[rick130]

Sals or P38 style rear diff ?

If a Sals definitely, if a P38 style rear end a good 75W-90 front, rear and t/case, just to standardise fluids.

The Rover diffs don't get very hot at all and you might notice the increased drag with an 85W-140 oil, and I'd reckon you'd definitely see it on your mpg figures if you use it right through your drivetrain.

Having said that, I still average 11.5-11.8l/110km with mine and I'm running 255/85 MT's, loaded and with ladders on the roof, so the extra drag from the 80W-140 in the back diff and t/case isn't too onerous.

I still run Syntrax 75W-90 in the front diff as that's what I use in the GU's g/box and t/case.

While not recommended, what I've done sometimes is buy 4 litres of diff oil (80W-140) and use in the Sals and part fill the t/case, then use 2 litres of a 75W-90 oil from the same brand and family in the front diff and top the t/case off with it so you end up with a blend.

Mostly I have more than enough of the two viscosities as the Patrol demands xW-140 in the rear end and a 75W-90 in the g/box and t/case and xW-90 in the front diff

[460cixy]

That's what I have in my diffs and knowing its ok for the Tbox it's going in there as well

[rick130]

When I had the t/case out @ 222,00km to do a clutch change the input gear splines looked new and all gears looked great.

Take into account that when I took delivery of the beast @ 76,000km the t/case oil was black and stunk from overheating it's not too bad. (different size tyres front and rear, plus I'm wondering how often the centre diff lock was used and this thing had a lot of off road use)

I'm up past 3000,000km now.

[djam1]

Rick it is a Salisbury rear

[DEFENDERZOOK]

I'm up past 3000,000km now.


is that one too many zeros there........or is your rover a taxi.....?

[rick130]

is that one too many zeros there........or is your rover a taxi.....?


Well spotted Zook ! and your prize for spotting the deliberate error is



just the satisfaction knowing you have good observation and comprehension skills :D

[bismillah]

Thanks Rick for the answers. I understand here that Motul Gear 300 75W90 fully synthetic should be better of MTF94 in R380 shift.

I use Motylgear 75W90 Technosynthese (semi-synthetic) for the two differentials and the transfer box and MTF94 for the R380.

For the next service I could consider putting Motul Gear 300 75W90 in R380: from what I've read is not worth it to use the 75W140 also because temperatures are not Saharian.

Should I consider using Motul Gear 300 75W90 for differentials and transfer box also or can I keep Motylgear 75W90?

[rick130]

MTF94 may shift a little easier at sub zero temps than Gear 300 as it also has a high VI and is only a 75W-80, but in my experience shears reasonably quickly.
It is a very good manual gearbox oil, regardless.

It just depends if you live up north in the Alps or down south where it's hotter :D

I'd stick with the Motylgear in the t/case and diffs.

[bismillah]

I tell you what I know...
In my humble experience, all specialist mechanics that deal with Defenders has always said that in the R380 you can only put MTF94 because it has be forulated specially...

Even though I always thought it was strange and exaggerated I always put MTF94

They say that without MTF94 I can have jamming and synchros wear faster. As limit, in case of problems with MTF94 you can put ATF Dexron III.

[rick130]

MTF94 isn't anything 'special', it's just a good, 75W-80 Manual Transmission Fluid of which there are any number these days from all the blenders.

Manual Transmission fluids differ from diff oils and engine oils in that they have the 'correct' friction modifiers for good synchro action, unlike an ATF, engine oil or differential fluid (which shouldn't be used in a manual gearbox)

What these friction modifiers do is that their coefficient of friction increases with reduced speed differential of the sycnhro clutches.
This allows the synchro faces to 'bite' properly and slow down even more, matching speeds and allowing the clutch dogs to engage smoothly without clashing.
Engine oils in particular tend to work the opposite, where their coefficient of friction decreases with reduced speed differential.
ATFs vary.

MTF's do vary in the speed of action from brand to brand, blend to blend.

What works best in one make doesn't always shift brilliantly in another, and as one of our resident full time Land Rover mechanics has said, even R380's can vary in their preference.
Texaco did blend MTF94 for Land Rover to replace ATF, so you could say it's optimised for their use, but that doesn't mean something else doesn't work as well or better.

I started using Castrol Syntrans 75W-85 in 2002, I had too much gear rattle at high ambient with MTF94 and knowing it's only a semi-synthetic I started to experiment to find something with a longer life.
A few years down the track I tried Redline MTL and then a mix of Redline MTL and MT90 for about 15,000km then back to Syntrans and it's only the last four years I switched to other fluids, eg Gear 300.
It didn't help that we could only buy MTF94 from a Land Rover dealer, if they'd sell it to us, or from a Caltex (Texaco) distributor only in 20l drums.
I'd found Syntrans to perform better than MTF94 anyway, and everyone that I suggested it to seemed to agree.
I also remember suggesting it to a Castrol Australia tech too as at that stage they only recommended ATF.

Caltex then stopped importing the oil when Land Rover started dealing with Castrol.

My gearbox has over 300,000km on it and the synchros are still fine.
Synchro action and speed of engagement varies between the different blends, but the gearbox is fine.

My 'box doesn't have an oil cooler, and in high summer temps and under high load the gear rattle was unacceptable for me and the synchro engagement deteriorated, even with Syntrans.
As I mentioned above, the life of Syntrans in one of these boxes is only 20,000km, yet it's fine for up to 400,000km in heavy trucks.
IME, the R380 is a fluid killer. Too small a volume of fluid, a cast iron case, limited oil cooling along with dealing with an oil pump and spiral cut gears shears the oil.

To try and help this in the short term I tried Torco RTF and have found that so far, Gear 300 gives me the results I'm after, but someone else may feel differently.
Most here are extremely happy with Castrol Syntrans 75W-85, some prefer and use Redline MTL, some Valvoline Duragear 75w-85, etc.

All are better than an ATF for long term durability IMO.

[bismillah]

I am very grateful for the very exhaustive answer.

The Syntrax 75W-85 oil you're talking about where I live is called Castrol Syntrax UNIVERSAL PLUS 75W90 fully synthetic that meets API GL-4 / API GL-5 / API MT-1 and says it is approved for replacement intervals 300,000 km in synchronized manual gearboxes.


Manual Transmission fluids differ from diff oils and engine oils in that they have the 'correct' friction modifiers for good synchro action, unlike an ATF, engine oil or differential fluid (which shouldn't be used in a manual gearbox)

Generally, gearbox oils, transfer box oil and differentials oil are all in the same category, for example, if I go on the Castrol site it suggests to me the same oil (Castrol Syntrax 75W UNIVERSAL PLUS 75W90 :D) for gearbox, transfer box and differential. How can I distinguish a gearbox oil from a transfer box or differential one?

What do you think about of this?
Mobil™ | Heavy Duty Engine Oils | Manual and Automatic Transmission | Mobilube 1 SHC™ 75W-90 (http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English-LCW/heavydutyoils_products_transmission_mobilube-1-shc-75w90.aspx)

Is it ok for the gearbox? It seems to have similar characteristics to Castrol and Motul ones ... I can use it for the transfer box and differential?

What do you use?

Thanks

[101RRS]

The Syntrax 75W-85 oil you're talking about

Syntrans oil is different to Syntrax. Syntrans is what most use here as the standard replacement for MTF 94.

Garry

[rick130]

I am very grateful for the very exhaustive answer.

The Syntrax 75W-85 oil you're talking about where I live is called Castrol Syntrax UNIVERSAL PLUS 75W90 fully synthetic that meets API GL-4 / API GL-5 / API MT-1 and says it is approved for replacement intervals 300,000 km in synchronized manual gearboxes.

[snip]

What do you use?

Thanks


No no no.

Syntrans 75W-85.

Syntrans comes in a few flavours, Syntrans Max 75W-80 for ZF commercial transmissions, Syntrans B 75W-80 is an Australian version for Ford high performance cars here, Syntrans M 75W-90 for Road Ranger and Spicer HD truck transmissions.

Syntrans Universal 75W-85 is the oldest version and the one most suitable fro the R380 in Australia, Africa and Southern Europe, eg. Spain, Portugal, Southern Italy, etc. It also has a Volvo HD Truck part number.


European Syntrax Long Life is another oil altogether, and is formulated for transaxle use.
It has only recently been re-named Syntrax in Europe, (the original name escapes me ATM) while carrying that name in Australia for many, many years.

AFAIK (and I could be wrong) I believe all these various Castrol brews were developed by Castrol Germany.

[bismillah]

Syntrans oil is different to Syntrax. Syntrans is what most use here as the standard replacement for MTF 94.

I'm sorry! I didn't notice that one is called Syntrans and the other Syntrax :p have fallen into error by the fact that the castrol site advised me the same oil for the entire transmission and also I've not been observant.

Could you spot what Syntrans you are talking about?

Castrol Italia - Lubrificanti e Oli Motore - Fluidi per cambi manuali (http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9014284&contentId=7082689)

[rick130]

I'm sorry! I didn't notice that one is called Syntrans and the other Syntrax :p have fallen into error by the fact that the castrol site advised me the same oil for the entire transmission and also I've not been observant.

Could you spot what Syntrans you are talking about?

Castrol Italia - Lubrificanti e Oli Motore - Fluidi per cambi manuali (http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9014284&contentId=7082689)

Nope, not there.

I see what you mean re the Syntrax recommendation too.

At a guess the 75W-90 might be closest, but one of the 75W-80's would be fine too, but I'd like to see that actual specs, eg. what the kinematic viscosities are @ 100*C.
I can't find any data sheets on the site, can you at all ?

They should say either Technical or Product data sheets, although not in English :D

[bismillah]

Writing the name here (http://www.castrol.com/castrol/displaysdstdsscreen.do?categoryId=9014115)you can find the oil spec

This is the Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 (http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/0/EBD50B7F0C69A5C48025782000516BFB/$file/BPXE-8DHD82_0.pdf) one

[rick130]

I forgot to add, if you're happy with MTF 94 and can get it easily enough keep using it.
Just don't exceed 20,000km with it.


I'll look at that PDF later, I'm on the mobile phone ATM.

[edit] I just downloaded/read that spec sheet and the 75W-90 is the same fluid as our 75W-85.
The kinematic viscosities are almost identical, well within the range of blending/ batch variations I'm sure.

[bismillah]

I've never tried anything else and I'm positive to try something new. Even I always struggle to find MTF94 and I would do without it.

What spec have to meet an oil for the R380 gearbox? Full synt ok, only GL-4? And what spec for the transfer box and differetial?

Have a look also to THIS (http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English-LCW/heavydutyoils_products_transmission_mobilube-1-shc-75w90.aspx#), cold be interesting?

[rick130]

I've never tried anything else and I'm positive to try something new. Even I always struggle to find MTF94 and I would do without it.

What spec have to meet an oil for the R380 gearbox? Full synt ok, only GL-4? And what spec for the transfer box and differetial?

Have a look also to THIS (http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English-LCW/heavydutyoils_products_transmission_mobilube-1-shc-75w90.aspx#), cold be interesting?

While many claim that a GL5 fluid should never be used in a synchro gearbox there are quite a few dual rated GL4/5 fluids that are fine and acceptable, Motul Gear 300 being one, Castrol Syntrax 75W-90 (Syntrax Long Life in Europe) being another.

The sulphur EP compounds are buffered so aren't corrosive to yellow metals, and you'll find most all modern diff oils meeting the GL5/Mil 2105E spec are buffered.

Interesting re the Mobil SHC 75W-90.
In the past Mobil has recommended against using that fluid in a synchro gearbox claiming it was formulated as a diff fluid first, also meeting the MT-1 spec for non synchro gearboxes too.
They must have reformulated it for decent synchro performance and no yellow metal corrosion.

IMO it's too viscous for the R380 at low/medium temps.
We can get away with Gear 300 as it's viscosity index is much higher, meaning it flows much better at 0*C to 40*C than the SHC75W-90.
Above that their curves would get much closer, meeting at 100*C.

It'd be fine in the t/case and diffs.

[bismillah]

Thank you Rick! Next service i will try in my R380 Motul Gear 300 75W-90 or Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 keeping them for not more than 20.000 km :burnrubber:

I'll let you know

[bismillah]

What about this in our R380..

Royal Purple Synchromax (http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/product-categories/automotive/#!synchromax-manual-transmission-fluid)

HERE (http://www.renox.com/auto/royalpurple/documenti/synchromax.pdf)some spec I found

:spudnikconfounded:

[rick130]

What about this in our R380..

Royal Purple Synchromax (http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/product-categories/automotive/#!synchromax-manual-transmission-fluid)

HERE (http://www.renox.com/auto/royalpurple/documenti/synchromax.pdf)some spec I found

:spudnikconfounded:

Very, very thin, ATF viscosity.

Great shifting when cold.

Also usually quite expensive.

[chang]

Hi Inc, would you also recommend using the castrol syntrans 75-85 in the LT77 Defender Gearbox, or is there something better for the LT77?

Cheers Jeff

I have been using Amsoil MTF Synchromesh in my disco LT77S for a couple months now & all I have to say is get some.

I went this route for better shifting & wear protection due to the climate up here & I also run a fair bit more torque through it with an upgraded turbo setup.

So far the shifting is a lot smoother/easier & VERY consistent under all conditions.

Viscosity is similar to ATF (5w30) so it wont **** your oil pump.

Also planning on running Amsoil Severe Gear 75/110 in both diffs & transfer very soon.

It costs a bit more to buy but the service life on them more than makes up for the price tag alone.

Contact Lubrication Management on (03) 9794 0700 & they will sort you out. Bloke over there is a former Tdi owner who ran these lubes also.

[PAT303]

I've been running Redline MTL at Ricks suggestion for about 4 years in my R380 and it shifts without grateing from 0 degree's up to 48.I would recommend it to anyone as it also has good high temp protection. Pat

[Blade74]

My car was having issues with changing gears so i dropped the oil and put Syntrans in. It's a lot better than previous but still have issues with second gear when cold.
Thinking of trying Motul to see how it goes.

The box/car only has 40000kms on it and it seems like there is a bearing rattle when it's revving reasonably high....
Will see if Motul is better and if the rattle goes.

[incisor]

My car was having issues with changing gears so i dropped the oil and put Syntrans in. It's a lot better than previous but still have issues with second gear when cold.
Thinking of trying Motul to see how it goes.

The box/car only has 40000kms on it and it seems like there is a bearing rattle when it's revving reasonably high....
Will see if Motul is better and if the rattle goes.

give the syntrans at least a 1000 klms the do it's job ... it gets better the longer it is there..

[Blade74]

I've done about 2000 Kim's since changing. Will give it maybe another 1000kms before changing. I know it sounds like a waists of money and oil but would be nice to get it changing smoother when cold and see if the rattle noise goes..

[rick130]

I've done about 2000 Kim's since changing. Will give it maybe another 1000kms before changing. I know it sounds like a waists of money and oil but would be nice to get it changing smoother when cold and see if the rattle noise goes..

You'll still have the odd dodgy change when cold if you go to Gear 300, sometimes it won't even go. Fluids are a compromise.

You can have slick changing for half a dozen changes when dead cold, then rattles and a baulky shift when hot, or the odd baulky change when cold and less noise and better shifting in high load/heat conditions.

Your call with what's important for you.

I made my choice eleven years ago and so far (touch wood) the g/box is still working well after being caned by an unsympathetic, brute of a driver who for years treated his R380 as if he was still driving a Hewland... :rolleyes:






(Hewland make straight cut, dog change racing gearboxes ;) )

[Blade74]

Thanks Rick,

What did you choose again as your preferred oil?
I'm guessing the Motul is pretty similar to the castrol.
I suppose the best way to know is to try it but it seems like the gearbox is pretty temperamental.

[rick130]

I ended up with Gear 300 and put up with a few baulks first thing on a freezing morning.

Years ago with Syntrans and a lot less km on the box, I'd rip it through as fast as I could move my hand on -6 starts and it'd shift like a race 'dog box 1st to 2nd, no sound, no resistance.

The 'box has well over 300,000km on it now so it hast to be expected to have a few baulks I suppose, and the shifting is fine once warm, maybe a touch slower than it was years ago and fine in summer when hot.