P38 Winch bar

[HEYVJ]

I have recently purchased a 97 HSE.

I am trying to find a decent winch bar that will comply with Vicroads registration requirements. Preferably in Victoria.

I have tried the forum search function here but I just seem to get side tracked reading about everything other than winch bars! God I love this site.

I've seen a few bars on google that I like but they all seem to be overseas and none for sale.

Can aulro members please post pics of their P38 winch bars?

What price can I expect to pay?

Cheers,
HEYVJ

[Keithy P38]

Good luck getting one mate, they are few and far between. Nobody locally makes one!

[HEYVJ]

When I was looking into buying a Rangie, I stumbled across a website of a bloke from Victoria somewhere. Range Rover P38 (http://www.rehayden.com/p38.htm)

I don't know if he is an AULRO member or not, but I was pretty impressed with the little extras that have been fitted to this Rangie.

Just wondering how he went with the winch bar after he stated, "It's been now three years and finally there is a bar being manufactured in Oz to fit a winch to these cars. Stay tuned!"

HEYVJ

[Gippslander]

55102Here is mine front, rear and side on.:D http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=147965

[PaulP38a]

When I was looking into buying a Rangie, I stumbled across a website of a bloke from Victoria somewhere. Range Rover P38 (http://www.rehayden.com/p38.htm)

I don't know if he is an AULRO member or not, but I was pretty impressed with the little extras that have been fitted to this Rangie.

Just wondering how he went with the winch bar after he stated, "It's been now three years and finally there is a bar being manufactured in Oz to fit a winch to these cars. Stay tuned!"

HEYVJ

Yeah, he did a good job with that car. I remember reading it several years ago. I think the winch bar he was referring to is the Hard Range Roo Bar, pictured on my blue "Hard Rangie" P38 below:
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/6346-1/IMG_0161.JPG

This was the only SRS airbag approved aftermarket bar for the P38 in the world. I say "was" because I (i.e. Hard Range) stopped selling them last year and gave the fabricator permission to sell them direct. Unfortunately it appears that Alloy Motor Accessories have decided that there isn't enough of a market and apparently no longer offer them.

So, if you want a compliant winch bar keep an eye on eBay and the for sale section on here. They do come up from time to time.

The 3-hoop bar in the photo above sold for around $2k when they were available. The single hoop and no-hoop variant were slightly less. The early version of the bar which had only a single bracket to each chassis rail is not rated for winch installation.

Cheers, Paul.

[Hoges]

Who owns the design? Perhaps the design could be licensed for a small fee?? just a thought.
cheers

[PaulP38a]

Who owns the design? Perhaps the design could be licensed for a small fee?? just a thought.
cheers

This was never totally clear. It is based on their Brahma Bar design and customised to fit the chassis rails of the P38. The majority of the IP is undoubtedly theirs. There is no official contractual agreement that I have sighted.

I made several design update suggestions but they were not actioned, such as adjustable mounting brackets (for the many irregular chassis rail widths) and pod lights.

It is a great bar nonetheless, but the admin overhead just wasn't worth the small margin we made on them.

[Marshall]

Terra firma have one. I couldn't say if it is ADR compliant or not. For sale via a lot of UK companies for less tham £400. Add freight, and you may sit at a tidy grand+
Terrafirma P38 Range Rover Fro - Land Rover Part TF007 (http://www.lrdirect.com/TF007-Terrafirma-P38-Range-Rover-Fro/)
http://pro-x.pro/upload-files/files/Catalog/TFCAT_web.pdf

[tasi devil]

Front is a early Hard Range (modified); Rear is locally built by a very good fabricator from a picture.
winch mount is behind the front number plate .............. i own 2x Tirfors

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

..............tasi

[HEYVJ]

Thanks for the pics everyone. I think I would prefer a full Bar like Pauls. Tasi, it's great to see what my Rangie can/will look like (a white one with the Cooper S/T's on it.

Cheers,
HEYVJ

[FiveSPDDisco]

Front is a early Hard Range (modified); Rear is locally built by a very good fabricator from a picture.
winch mount is behind the front number plate .............. i own 2x Tirfors

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s250/tasidevil/dualbatterybars009.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s250/tasidevil/dualbatterybars010.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s250/tasidevil/dualbatterybars011.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s250/tasidevil/dualbatterybars012.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s250/tasidevil/dualbatterybars013.jpg

..............tasi

Thank you for the pics. What diff guard is on the rear? I did not know Qt had one that fit.

[tasi devil]

diff guard was made to fit, it's for a defender. to do it properly i now need to pull diff housing apart & lengthen retaining bolts.
was working on same diff guard for front diff but some other things in life got in the way.
had to cut & shut the front one around suspension components & last thought was may need to space out the front sway bar 20-25mm or so......... am going to get some advise on the advisability of that

[PaulP38a]

Hey Tasi - I've got a modified Bearmach diff pumpkin protector (Defender I think) on my front diff which seems to do the job.
There is a lot of movement in the front suspension and steering. I have spent hours (seemed like it anyway) laying under there wondering how you could install body armour that wouldn't get in the way or stuff up ground clearance.
Stone guard/bash plate from the underside of the Roo Bar to the under-radiator box frame is as far as I have got... yours looks tougher :D
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/4671-1/IMG_2817.JPG

[HEYVJ]

I know anything is possible with a grinder and a welder and a bit of timeI was just wondering if;

Has anyone cut and shut a Disco Bullbar to fit to their P38?
Are Disco 1 & Disco 2 chassis widths / dimensions / mounts the same as the P38?

I know that fitting the Bullbar should not impede the SRS airbag crush cans and that edges must be radiused, but what else should I need to know if I'm going to have a cut & shut session.

What I want in a bar... Good looking, good approach angles, Recovery points, relatively hidden winch, hi-lift points, indicators a couple of lights, a UHF aerial, maybe fog lights.... all the usual stuff/needs.

I'd like to be able to bolt on a bar, but if not possible, I'll have a crack at a build.

Cheers,
HEYVJ

[Keithy P38]

I do believe flo(??) has a modified D2 bar on his P38. He mentioned that it was the mounts that were modified, but its a good fit.

[Keithy P38]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/159479-update-about-rr-evolution-p38.html

Check this out, post #8.

[PaulP38a]

Remy has a D2 bar on his P38 that Andrew E helped him install a couple of years back. The mounts needed to be redrilled as I recall.

There are a few variants of non-P38 specific bars getting around.
Don't know if anyone has tested the insurance implications though.
SRS activation really should not be an issue. Early P38s have crash sensors behind the headlights, while later models have the sensor inside the ECU casing.
The crash cans behind the stock front bar have nothing to do with the SRS.

[p38arover]

I had an early Hard Range bar on my P38A but I sold the bar some years back.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=55191&stc=1&d=1357456384

And on my car:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1321.jpg

This is an D2 ARB Sahara Bar on a P38A - see http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/135068-classic-v-p38-chassis-rail-specs.html#post1539558

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Re the diff protector, I bought the QT unit but never fitted it as the diff bolts were too short. The pics are on an old diff of mine and not a P38A diff, it was only for illustration.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[wayneg]

Triumph rover spares show a used ARB D2 bar on their website

[FiveSPDDisco]

Re the diff protector, I bought the QT unit but never fitted it as the diff bolts were too short. The pics are on an old diff of mine and not a P38A diff, it was only for illustration.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=55192&stc=1&d=1357457003

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=55193&stc=1&d=1357457067

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=55194&stc=1&d=1357457067

Thank you for posting

[Scouse]

... gave the fabricator permission to sell them direct. Unfortunately it appears that Alloy Motor Accessories have decided that there isn't enough of a market and apparently no longer offer them.

They're still listed on their website:

- 4x4 & Ute Accessories | AMA Brisbane (http://www.ama4wd.com.au/index.php?a=details&subcat=202&id=850)

[Pete38]

I had an early Hard Range bar on my P38A but I sold the bar some years back.

This is an D2 ARB Sahara Bar on a P38A - see http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/135068-classic-v-p38-chassis-rail-specs.html#post1539558

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/technical-chatter/38822d1315295051-classic-v-p38-chassis-rail-specs-p38a_arb_bar1.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/technical-chatter/38823d1315295068-classic-v-p38-chassis-rail-specs-p38a_arb_bar2.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/technical-chatter/38824d1315295084-classic-v-p38-chassis-rail-specs-p38a_arb_bar3.jpg



I like that bar. Thanks for posting. Have asked ARB if they are still available and the price.

[PaulP38a]

They're still listed on their website:

- 4x4 & Ute Accessories | AMA Brisbane (http://www.ama4wd.com.au/index.php?a=details&subcat=202&id=850)

That one has always been there Scott, even when we were selling the Hard Range bars. It think that photo was just a mock-up of a standard Brahma bar on mine (err, Hardy's) P38 about 6-7 years ago. I don't believe that particular bar ever made it on to any P38, certainly not in the time I was selling them.

Funny/frustrating that they have told several people that they are no longer doing the P38 bars while there is still something on their web site.

[Pete38]

I like that bar. Thanks for posting. Have asked ARB if they are still available and the price.

Well the D2 Sahara are available and someone quoted me $1750 but I'm sure they will be negotiable.

Any one got an engineers certificate for a modified D2 bar? I'm sure it's no biggy but no idea of the price. I'm an engineer but I can't write a certificate damn it... Well I don't think I can.

[Pete38]

Hmm interesting. Got this from a document for the nsw RMS so this looks promising.

Clause 25 of Schedule 2 of the Regulation requires that, if the vehicle was manufactured after 1 January 2003, bull bars and other vehicle frontal protection systems fitted to the vehicle must comply with the Australian Standard AS 4876.1–2002 Motor vehicle frontal protection systems—Road user protection. If the vehicle was manufactured before 2003, the bull bar must be designed, built and fitted to the vehicle in a way that minimises the likelihood of injury to a person making contact with the vehicle

[andrew53]

55102Here is mine front, rear and side on.:D http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=147965

What size tyres have you there, thanks

[Remy]

D2 bar can be modified to fit.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/90900-new-release-arb-p38-winch-bar.html

[Remy]

and some pictures of the bars on the latest rangie
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/132507-big-thanks-andy-paul-hard-range-2.html

[Gippslander]

What size tyres have you there, thanks
I am running 265/65/16 Khumo mud tyres.:)

[DANMAL]

I know anything is possible with a grinder and a welder and a bit of timeI was just wondering if;

Has anyone cut and shut a Disco Bullbar to fit to their P38?
Are Disco 1 & Disco 2 chassis widths / dimensions / mounts the same as the P38?

I know that fitting the Bullbar should not impede the SRS airbag crush cans and that edges must be radiused, but what else should I need to know if I'm going to have a cut & shut session.

What I want in a bar... Good looking, good approach angles, Recovery points, relatively hidden winch, hi-lift points, indicators a couple of lights, a UHF aerial, maybe fog lights.... all the usual stuff/needs.

I'd like to be able to bolt on a bar, but if not possible, I'll have a crack at a build.

Cheers,
HEYVJ

Hey mate, I just got a disco 2 bar installed on my Rangie, pretty much fits the description you asked for, n also ADR approved.. He has taken all the specs from mine and going to start making them for p38's.. Cost me $1300 fitted.. Just out of ballarat..
Cheers
Sam

[hhiemstra]

Hey people, I've been toying with the idea of making a front bar for my P38a, but the one thing that has stopped me so far is the airbags. What have people use in the way of crush cans? Does anyone know what will happen if crush cans are not used?

Cheerz, Harry

[PaulP38a]

The Hard Range bar dispensed with the crush cans, as the bar itself was certified ADR and SRS airbag compliant.

My understanding of the crush cans is that they are only there to absorb soft impacts and have no bearing on the SRS airbag sensor, which is located under the cubby box.

It also seems to me that having the crush cans retained while fitting a winch bar is a bit silly as you are likely to rip the bar off the cans if your winch is secured to the bar and you use it :o

[TheTree]

I think the guy in VIC managed to get the D2 bar to fit with the crush cans still in place.

Maybe PM him and ask ?

Steve

[rc42]

The crush cans are nothing to do with the SRS system, (unless the impact sensors have been attached to them but usually they are elsewhere) they are there to provide a deformation point in case you hit something solid at relatively low speed.

Their role is to dissipate the impact forces by deforming (or crushing) so that greatly reduced forces are passed on to the chassis, without them even a fairly low speed impact could direct enough force into the chassis to deform it and turn your car into an insurance write-off.

Bull bars don't need crush cans and many don't have them as it causes complications for providing enough strength for winch attachments and recovery points but they're a good option on a well made bar.

[benji]

There was some Europian legislation that come in in the mid 90's that stated a vehicle should be able to survive a low speed colision with mimimal damamge - this was Rovers answer - Volvo had the best system by far. Defenders didn't need them, as I think they were registered as a commercial vehicle at the time.

They do nothing in a high speed accident (mathmatically they might, but in reality - no).

[hhiemstra]

I thought the crush cans were there for srs systems to have a fraction of time to deploy in the event of an accident...
Interesting that my mates D2 ARB bar came with ARB crush cans, and the guy at my local op. lock didnt really help much at all (they sell xrox and arb stuff). I guess the whole adr is my biggest issue... unless i can find a d2 xrox to trial fit...

Also, reading on some jeep forums, they are required to "cut off the original crush can off the bumper and attach it to the ARB bull bar"...

[HEYVJ]

I've done some more research.

The bars being sold on eBay can be found by typing in FALCON 707-02 into ebay. They are $1,350.

They have a sticker on them. "MCC"

I looked up MCC and turns out they're in Thomastown, Melbourne. I was at Les Richmond Automotive today.... I could've gone to the warehouse if I had've known earlier!

Check out their range of bars here if the Moderators allow it.
www.mcc4x4.com - Land Rover (http://www.mcc4x4.com/index.php?option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=29:land-rover&Itemid=14)

[davidsonsm]

Just had one fitted with a winch. See the "new bull bar for p38" thread. The factory crush cans were jettisoned and the MCC brackets were used - which incorporate a "crush" design i.e. one side of the bracket is perforated to be weaker. The airbag sensor is behind the dash isn't it. And also interlocked not to activate below a certain speed.

[TheTree]

Thanks for the info, very tempting :D

It also looks like selling the old bar helps mitigate the "pain in the pocket" :cool:

Steve

[davidsonsm]

Yep - got the factory bull bar on ebay at present.

[HEYVJ]

SRS Airbag info - From RR Workshop Manual. Section 75- page 6.


See 75 -2 and 75 - 3 for components and layout.


Looks like P38s went to 2 sensors fitted at the front (crush cans) from MY99, known as a Distributed System.




MAIN SENSOR


The main sensor is a deceleration detection device which is contained in the DCU. The sensor consists of a spring and weight system which is attached to strain gauges in a Wheatsone bridge circuit.
The ’balance’ nodes of the bridge circuit is connected to an integrated circuit that can instantly detect a change in the monitored resistance.


In the event of a collision, the spring and weight move causing a corresponding change in the resistance of the related strain gauge.
If the change in strain gauge resistance is greater than a preset value, it corresponds to a crash condition of sufficient severity to warrant SRS component deployment.
In this case, the processor provides a signal to initiate airbag and/or seatbelt pre-tensioner deployment.


Deployment will only be carried out if a confirmation signal that a crash condition is occurring is received by the SRS DCU. Crash condition confirmation is achieved by simultaneous actuation of the safing sensor and/or one or more of the front crash sensors in the case of a distributed system.


SINGLE POINT SENSED SYSTEM


This system relies on the DCU’s internal deceleration sensor and safing sensor to provide the control inputs required to confirm activation conditions for SRS component deployment.


DISTRIBUTED SRS SYSTEM


The DCU used for the distributed SRS system is identical to the single point system, with the exception that two external front crash sensors provide additional inputs to the unit for determining and confirming a crash condition in conjunction with the DCU’s internal accelerometer.

[PaulP38a]

I believe that only NAS-spec P38's had the front crash sensors. They are a yellow box located behind each head light.

Rest of us with 99+ models got the Diag Control Unit with integrated accelerometer and safing sensor to control fron and side air bags.

My 2000 model had a side impact which deployed only the driver's seat air bag. In addition to new seat leather and seat air bag, the DCU must also be replaced after an incident.

[Gippslander]

Hey Paul my old girl has the two yellow boxes behind the headlights as you know she is a 1995 model there is also something at the back of the handbrake area under the console. It is also there in the 1997 model wreck i bought that's why i thought the crash cans were superfluous for the air bag triggering when i fitted the winch bar. Don't know if it helps just putting it out there.:(

[TheTree]

Hi

I checked my MY99 (build 07/99) and there are no yellow boxes behind the headlights, seems some have them and some don't.

Steve

[uzz32soarer]

When I was looking into buying a Rangie, I stumbled across a website of a bloke from Victoria somewhere. Range Rover P38 (http://www.rehayden.com/p38.htm)

I don't know if he is an AULRO member or not, but I was pretty impressed with the little extras that have been fitted to this Rangie.

Just wondering how he went with the winch bar after he stated, "It's been now three years and finally there is a bar being manufactured in Oz to fit a winch to these cars. Stay tuned!"

HEYVJ

Yep, that's my website and P38 and yes, she's had a winch bar fitted for a few years now.

Here's a picture.

[uzz32soarer]

It's a Disco 2 ARB bar that I purchased and modified to fit the P38. Yes, crush cans were a major consideration of the mounting system. Rangie and Disco have different crush systems. One is in the rails and the other in the bumper mounts.

Took a lot of work to figure it out so that the winch didn't pull on the crush cans, but it's been awesome and had a few decent workouts and never had a problem.

The old girl has 330 000 kms up on her now. Twin diff locks, axillary air tanks and second compressor. Gas conversion, 4.6 high comp engine with Tornado chips, hot water shower unit, twin batteries, remote controlled winch and bar.

[DT-P38]

With that list of accessories you deserve a bit of attention and adoration from fellow P38'ers! Best you come along to Wombat in a few weeks - see upcoming trips thread.

You can park next to my "pretty pig" and show off!!!

[uzz32soarer]

I just went and had a look. Never actually camped out that way. What's the general go. Day drives Saturday around the area and the overnight Saturday, home Sunday?

It's not too far so I could even wander up and see you guys during the day on Saturday and join a drive?

Would be good to see a new area close to town.

[DT-P38]

Come along... you can do whatever you want! There are always drives generally from easy to hard and some dudes even just hang around camp and chill out!

Great mob of AULRO guys with LR's of varying types... come to think of it, varying mod's and style's of set up too.

[HEYVJ]

So, after quite some time, I have finally tracked down a Winch Bar for my P38.

It's a second hand HARD RANGE bar.

Right place (kind of) & right time & right price too!

I'm currently in Switzerland (bragging) for work and just paid for the Bar that I saw on a vehicle in Laverton, Vic. The Bar will now be freighted from Adelaide back to me in Werribee, Vic.

Sometimes you just have to keep ask the right person the right question....

Speaking of which, PAULP38a, "The HARD RANGE bar doesn't have fog lights... how will I overcome the annoying bulb message when the new bar is fitted?"

Cheers,
HEYVJ

[Keithy P38]

Put a set of baby halogen driving lights on the bullbar and you'll have that sorted.

[Scouse]

The HARD RANGE bar doesn't have fog lights... how will I overcome the annoying bulb message when the new bar is fitted? Just don't use the fog light switch. One of my cars doesn't have fog lights (they were cracked & discoloured) - the bulb fail warning only comes on if I activate the switch.