Hema maps

[Chops]

Whilst up the High Country, Wombat PO, we ran into a group from SA who were touring the area.
During conversation two things were said that interested me.
The first was this guy (Troop Leader ??), said that his Hema GPS which I'm assuming was a HM5(?) and his paper maps, didn't line up.
He said that quite often when cross referencing the two, he had to take "pot luck". Has anyone else found this with their set-ups?
This worries me a bit as we're looking into purchasing the HM6(?) in the near future. Watching the likes of Roothy, Graeme and Pat, they don't seem to have any problems with their units at all.

The second thing he said, which really had me baffled was that when he arrived at Wonnangatta St, they couldn't stay/base themselves there because they needed permits. So they headed over to Omeo, which is why we ran into them.
Can someone shed some light on this please?

[Marty110]

in 2010 we did 800km of high country tracks only seeing a dirt road or bitumen when we crossed them on the way to another track. We had no problems with our Hema 5 for navigation and our track notes all matched up on the unit.

[Tombie]

What was the guy driving out of curiosity?

Our club had a group over there about then.

[Hall]

Must be some age to the paper maps he is using. I have Hema maps on Ozzie explorer and they are not to good either. The are though five years old when I got them and the data for the maps could have been older than that. I found the roof top paper maps that I had were a better fit to the roads. As for a permit for Wonnangatta new to me far as I know there is no permit. Just did a google on it. You need a permit for non tourist activitys like scientific research etc but no mention of permits for the general public.
Cheers Hall

[OffTrack]

While it's not exactly high country we were down in Briagolong State Forest over new years and did a bit track driving. I didn't have any issues with track accuracy using the Hema maps, although they do tend to be a bit schematic rather than pin point accurate.

If you can live without all the annotations the Spatial Vision mapping is probably the best for Victoria. Their DVD mapping is a spot on match for the tracks I drove, whereas the Hema maps are +/-100 metres in places.

This is the link to SV Dargo paper map as an example:
https://svmaps.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_lite_pdf.tpl&product_id=26&category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=145

This is a small section showing GPS track overlaid on Hema VIC High Country West (2008 ed - the 2012 ed still shows the same incorrect track alignment ):

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=55095&stc=1&d=1357253059

And Spatial Vision VicMap DVD (2010 ed):

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=55094&stc=1&d=1357253042

As you can see the Hema map puts the track start too far to the East. The SpatialVision mapping coverage for Victoria is far an away the best compromise between scale/detail/legibility/accuracy.

Hall's suggestion for the Rooftop series for paper mapping is a good one as the annotations on tracks can be very useful.


cheers
Paul

[Chops]

I'm not sure if the guys were with a club or just mates, although it sort seemed to be some kind of "tag a long" but I could be wrong.
The paper map he showed me was one of the later Hema books, 25 Vic Tracks (?), I have the same book, did a trip up to Lake Cobbler a few weeks ago and had no problems.
The man I spoke to drive a Jeep

[Xtreme]

Maybe they had mismatching datum between GPS and maps.
Although both being Hema products, you'd think they were set up correctly initially.

[stallie]

I understand that HEMA have now driven the vast majority of tracks to log and put on the maps.

Unless the road changes location, if there's a significant discrepancy I'd lean towards the different Datum theory too. There are many more qualified than I that can explain better, but in a nutshell the earth is not round, and maps have to approximate this. As such, different regions of the world use different baseline from which to measure location. These are usually regional.

It's very easy to fiddle fiddle f##k in settings....

[adzee]

I have to recommend staying well away from the vms mapping on iOS. I can honestly say I wasted my money for the iPad/iPhone version. When in the high country over Christmas it sent me down a track with a gate 50m from the end and with the visual on where I needed to be had to back track and make additional 2 hours of driving. Their data is useless even after spending a further $100 on the high country maps!


Spatial Vision is the maps used by all Vic CFA and DSE I believe, and is pretty good, but I will be investing in HEMA. Only reason I have vms is because it was all that was available. Won't buy it until later in the year when I want to start planning trips. Chops - don't believe the videos of pat, 4wd action etc, they only say what they are paid for, nothing is in the interest of the viewing public, all about making more money.

[Hymie]

I do a lot of trips in Victorias High Country and all of the people I come across without exception who are lost or needing more direction are using Hema maps.
We always use at least 3 different forms of map and they never agree but to rely solely on the Hemas would be a no no to me.
As for Wonnongatta, never ever heard of Permits to go there or camp there.

[oldyella 76]

I know the bloke who drove most of those tracks and have even been with him on trips where he has checked maps. He is absolutely fastidious in the way he does his job. I would say that the most times maps don't correspond is when the wrong datum is entered in the GPS or the mapping system.
Lindsay.

[stallie]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Offtrack, in the HEMA maps, I thought that purple meant that it had been driven and GPS mapped, and that red meant that is was gleaned from gov't or other topographic sources.

This is borne out by your map - the purple is following the gps log, the red is a broad line as you would get from a sat pic or similar through tree cover and a human hand drawing the map.

[OffTrack]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/gps/55095d1357253059-hema-maps-hema_lees.png

Offtrack, in the HEMA maps, I thought that purple meant that it had been driven and GPS mapped, and that red meant that is was gleaned from gov't or other topographic sources.

This is borne out by your map - the purple is following the gps log, the red is a broad line as you would get from a sat pic or similar through tree cover and a human hand drawing the map.

I think you are on the money regarding the colour coding. The red track is virtually identical to the GA 1:250K scale mapping. I don't think there is much wrong with the Hema where they have actually driven the tracks.

One of the reasons I like the Spatial Vision mapping is that is draws on the VicMap data and was heavily updated with input from CFA and DSE after the Black Saturday fires. The CFA was using this mapping in the field until fairly recently. It's a brilliant package, and works really well with OziE.

(Un)fortunately the CFA has moved to using an iPad based package ( Mapscape :: Authoritative High Performance Mapping (http://www.mapscape.com.au) ) using far more up to date versions of the same mapping so it seems unlikely the SV VicMap imagery on DVD will get updated for OziExplorer.

[Chops]

Ok,, so what is the sugestion to someone who want a "good" map system.
From what I have seen, the new Hema navigator looks alright, enough that I'm thinking of purchasing one.
I'm not sure I want a laptop in the front seat whilst I'm driving, however, that could have other benifits too, Internet etc whilst out and about.
The Spatial maps you talk of seem to be like 100 buck per book. That's alot of cash, and a lot of books to carry around.

[stallie]

I used the HEMA map app on ipad and iphone for the trip around Australia. Worked excellently IMHO.

The ipad was kept loose in the car in the glovebox (or more often by my 5yo who now can read maps perfectly) and just consulted before the drive. The actual map reference is done via the iphone on a basic windscreen mount and connected to power (which I permanently wired a iphone charge cable from the fuesebaox and out the back of the instrument cluster to keep it neat).

When you know where you are going (and where you are on the map at any time) all I found I needed to reference was the iphone screen.

It is $150 for the program (runs on both ipad and iphone) with all HEMA maps plus 1:250k govt topos. In app purchases for 1:25k etc. Buy with 20% off itunes cards makes it even cheaper. Simple and works

[mikehzz]

I run Memory Map on ipad and laptop with the Hema Maps and all very good. However, I "found" some Hema maps for Oziexplorer to use on my laptop and they are almost not useable. You get what you pay for :) The map datum is critical.

I also have Mud Map and think it is a waste of money.

[BDB]

I have hema maps on my iPad.I used them in April in the Flinders and they were accurate and several less adventurous places since.
They are based on Memory Maps in the iPad , this takes a bit of getting used to.

I have a disco 3 and the big win is the Ipad sits very neatly in the fold down tray of the top glove box. On some of the hairy Flinders tracks I used a small strap across the Ipad cover so it did not become airborne.

I would like Westprints outback tracks maps , but these cant be downloaded on an iMac. have left windows because of the photos ability of the iMac. Anyone any suggestions.

[adzee]

Ok,, so what is the sugestion to someone who want a "good" map system.
From what I have seen, the new Hema navigator looks alright, enough that I'm thinking of purchasing one.
I'm not sure I want a laptop in the front seat whilst I'm driving, however, that could have other benifits too, Internet etc whilst out and about.
The Spatial maps you talk of seem to be like 100 buck per book. That's alot of cash, and a lot of books to carry around.

The spatial vision books are incredibly good, detailed etc but yes, they are reasonable books. Still I prefer a book over the poster folded maps.

iPad mini with 3G will give you Internet, small size but big enough for what you need, and light weight. Easy use.

There is also android tablets but I don't have knowledge of them.

[OffTrack]

Ok,, so what is the sugestion to someone who want a "good" map system.
From what I have seen, the new Hema navigator looks alright, enough that I'm thinking of purchasing one.
I'm not sure I want a laptop in the front seat whilst I'm driving, however, that could have other benifits too, Internet etc whilst out and about.
The Spatial maps you talk of seem to be like 100 buck per book. That's alot of cash, and a lot of books to carry around.

I'm running the digital mapping. The DVD of mapping of Ozi is $150. There is a series of paper maps based on the same mapping that cover popular 4wd areas.

https://svmaps.com.au/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=145

https://svmaps.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=2&flypage=flypage_lite_pdf.tpl&product_id=6&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=145

As the Hema Navigator is runs OziExplorer you'd still be able run the SV maps, although it is a bit of an outlay. I have both Memory Map with VicMap 1:25k and Hema and Ozi with the SV maps on a cheap 6" GPs, and find that Ozi + SV is the digital mapping I use most most often in Vic.

[stallie]

I should add one very useful feature of having the moving topo map on the iPhone where its easily visible when driving was knowing when the next straight piece of road was for overtaking. Towing a camper with a TD5, acceleration isn't fantastic. If there was no clear spot to overtake a semi, I'd just hang back a safe distance away and then start the acceleration around the last corner and have a rate of closure on the semi coming into the straight.

[OffTrack]

I used the HEMA map app on ipad and iphone for the trip around Australia. Worked excellently IMHO.

The ipad was kept loose in the car in the glovebox (or more often by my 5yo who now can read maps perfectly) and just consulted before the drive. The actual map reference is done via the iphone on a basic windscreen mount and connected to power (which I permanently wired a iphone charge cable from the fuesebaox and out the back of the instrument cluster to keep it neat).

When you know where you are going (and where you are on the map at any time) all I found I needed to reference was the iphone screen.

It is $150 for the program (runs on both ipad and iphone) with all HEMA maps plus 1:250k govt topos. In app purchases for 1:25k etc. Buy with 20% off itunes cards makes it even cheaper. Simple and works

Sounds like a good setup!

It's worth noting that the Hema app is simply a rebranded version of Memory Map. The main advantage of the Hema version is that they seem to be updating the Hema maps more frequently than occurs on Memory Map. The latest update apparently came with new GDT revisions. The ones via MM are still those which came with 2012 mapping and are "Copyright 2009".

The 1:25K topo maps will be the same as those that are sold via the Memory Map store. I personally find the 1:25K are pretty much useless for driving - especially on the iPhone. If you zoom in far enough to see the track, you end up not being able to see enough of the map to get context, but if you zoom out enough to see the context you can't see the track detail.

The Hema maps are about the right scale for use on the iPhone, and I was really happy using them when we did a trip up to the Flinders Ranges a couple of years back.

In Victoria the best Hema coverage is for the High Country. Elsewhere in the state the best you can hope for is highway touring coverage. Once you get into parks like Wyperfeld NP the information on the Hema's is woefully out of date. Many of the through tracks shown are MVO, and there is no indication of locked gates etc.

There is alternative coverage for this area from Meridian Maps and Westprint available via Avenza PDFMaps app but the app is pretty limited by it's lack of support of navigation based on tracks and routes*.

http://mapstore.avenza.com/public/62493/

http://mapstore.avenza.com/public/64037/

Until OziExplorer get around to building an app for iOS, PDFMaps embraces some navigation functionality, or Hema/Memory Map manage to get some of the other specialist vendors on board there is no single app with coverage that "does it all" for Victorian 4wd end users.

Thats my 5c anyway

cheers
Paul

* PDFMaps supports gps logging and user waypoints, but you can't load or navigate along tracks or routes. The app doesn't auto load maps when you move off the edge of the current map.

[Chops]

Thanks for the info and updates guys, I appriciate it.

So then, I guess I'll be looking into a laptop to do the job. SWMBO will like this, so now I just need to find one that'll do what we need.

Being in the Defender, with it's lack of room I don't want a massive unit, but I think I'll have to find some way of mounting it too, so as when I am on my own I can utilize it. I'm guessing some kind of bracket that screws into the dash somewhere is the go, something a bit like a flat screen TV wall bracket (?).

[sschmez]

:eek::eek::eek: Mounting it ??? :eek::eek::eek:

When travelling alone my laptop is "mounted" on the passenger seat....:D
I've got one of those stable table type laptop trays with a non slip top and a beanbag foam balls cushion underneath.
steady as a rock (and rarely ends up on the passenger floor:o )

Stevo

[decibelcore]

:
:eek::eek::eek: Mounting it ??? :eek::eek::eek:

When travelling alone my laptop is "mounted" on the passenger seat....:D
I've got one of those stable table type laptop trays with a non slip top and a beanbag foam balls cushion underneath.
steady as a rock (and rarely ends up on the passenger floor:o )

Stevo

:o:o
Having been for a drive with you sschmez, it is quite remarkable that it rarely ends up on the passenger floor?

Cheers decibelcore

[Cobber]

Is the app worth the $150? :confused:

It's quite a premium over a Hema road atlas or similar. Call me old fashioned, but I haven't gone wrong with my road atlas (at least, not yet!) as I tend to do journeys in sections. As a result I look at the map before heading off, and make a couple of short notes where I think I will need them :)

[Chops]

Cobber, when you think about it, you buy one map for one area,, $10 (min?) It won't take long to spend the $150, and still not cover all of Victoria. Then you've got lost maps, damaged etc etc,, the $150 to the best of my knowledge covers all of Aust.
And if you buy all 5(?) of the Spatial (s?) maps, that's $500. Vic only.
We're going to travel Aust, which is why we want electronic maps, we'll still have a general road atlas, but the electronic should be more defined.

[DiscoWeb]

I am also looking at the Hema app as we as a family have 2 iPads and 2 iPhones so a plethora of devices.

Can anyone confirm 100% that the Hema app for $150 from iTunes covers all of Aust and not just state based.

On another point raised below about the relative value of Electronic maps vs a road atlas think the benefit of a GPS style unit over paper maps is not so much for general touring but for when you are on tracks and actually need to know where you are and which track to take.

As an example I do some trips in the Vic High Country where there are often a number of tracks and options and a GPS would be handy as referring to paper maps is not always that simple on the go.

Regards,

George

[Yorkie]

george, from my reading the hema app covers all australia at 250k. if you want topo (25k) then you need to buy each state individually, another $150 each.

[stallie]

Yes the HEMA covers all of Australia.

It has

Aus planning map
1:000000 scale of Oz
The HEMA state maps
The HEMA area activity maps (eg Great desert tracks NW sheet)
Local national park maps
plus Australia at 1:250K

You scale up and down to get the different maps by zooming.

For our trip to the Kimberley, I would have spent over $150 in hard copy maps. And now I'm off on another trip to the Gulf and back and don't need to buy any more maps. The one account serves five devices (iPad and/or iPhone) so you only pay once.

[Chops]

Is it possible to put all the info from the disc/disc's, onto an SD Card and use it from a Garman Nuvi?

[Yorkie]

Is it possible to put all the info from the disc/disc's, onto an SD Card and use it from a Garman Nuvi?

no, they run different file types. restricted to oztopo or garmin topo.

[Chops]

Well, laptops been purchased, so now for the maps.

So wheres the best place to get the cheapest disks, is there a better place to get them, as in online or a shop?

[Chops]

Righty-oh,,
One more question on all this,, (well, at this point anyway :angel:),,
What/which USB GPS Antenna do you guys use, and where can one purchase one, preferably SE Melb.
It seems from what I can determine a GlobalSat BU-353 GPS Receiver looks to be the one to get, although I'm having trouble locating one other than on fleabay and OS or the Western Aus.
The unit is only about $50 on average, just so far away :(