Rear Hub Removal

[HowardSmall]

I have oil leaking from the near side rear wheel so am trying to check the rear hub assembly.Have removed the drive shaft circlip and the five bolts retaining the drive member but cannot get the drive member off. Can someone please tell me the best way to do this?

Also, the drive shaft is protruding some four centimetres and is sufficiently loose that I can push it back in. Obviously this is not normal - what does it indicate is wrong?

Thanks

Howard

[Summiitt]

If you just tap gently around the drive flange it should crack the seal onto the hub, as an alternate gently prize the flange away with a Jimmy bar. There should be movement in the axle shaft4cm sounds a little too much but may indicate some wear in the components. Once the drive flange is out, the axle is free to be removed, then bearing assembly, brake caliper and finally hub unit itself, easy job!

[blue_mini]

Another trick I use is to spin the drum and t should break the seal.
Sounds like they could've used silastic or silicon to seal it.

[rick130]

I use a copper faced hammer to tap them free, but if it's been siliconed on you'll need to 'cut' it free.
Something like an old butter knife works well and tap it through between the machined faces.

Use an RTC3511 hub seal when re-assembling, and seat it @ 4mm below the hub face and check where the lips run to make sure the sealing surface is OK.

Also check the drive flange and axle splines for wear, although it sounds like you have oil lubed hubs (either by design or chance :D)

[jimr1]

:) Hi , if i can add to the advice aready given. You'l need to check and clean your brake rotas . plus inner brake pads, as they can get oil on them. Also pull the shaft out and check it's condition ..regards jimr1 ...:)

[weeds]

good timing as i just changed all four bake rotors today.......i assume by now you have it sorted

there will more than likely be a gasket sealant either side of the gasket which is holding the flange to the hub, i use a thin screw driver to seperate the drive flange from the hub.....

not sure that you should be able to pull the axle out 4cm, maybe the spline is a little longer than normal, i doubt it would be from wear

i also assume you have removed the brake calliper by now, it best to remove the brake line, put a clamp on the flex hose near the diff

i also assume you have the hub nut spanner

you will need the smallscrew driver again to pry back the lock washer to remove the first hub nut......now one of mine today needed a chisel to get the nut moving, man it was tight, once off the washer should come off than the next nut, don't misplace the solid washer between nut and bearing

you can now remove the hub, you will need to catch the outer bearing as your removing the hub

i always replace the seal, gasket and lock washer, lock washer can be reused just don't bend it in the same place twice (i was one short today, i paid for five but buggered if i can find it).

clean the stub axle u and inspect the surface where the hub seal runs, you may see two wear marks, ifso you will will need a speedi sleeve prior to reftting the hub

the new seal needs to sit square, i use a maxi drive flange to seat the seal, the lip on this flange is 5mm......pretty close i reckon and it makes sure everything is square

wash bearings out and inspect, you need to look at the end of the roller, you should see a hollow in the centre of the each roller

re-pack the bearing and reassemble

i assume you know how to adjust the bearing

don't to lock both nuts with the washer

more importantly dont forget the circlip

calliper back on, you may need to pads, your call

blead brakes

[HowardSmall]

Thanks to all and to Kelvin especially for his detailed explanation.

I am 69 and trying such things for the first time (simple matter of economics) so appreciate all and any advice.

Re the spanner. I have withdrawn the axle so figured a 50/55mm socket would do? Will accurately measure it before I go to cairns today.

One thing that puzzles me - I cannot see a lock washer (or more specifically a bent tab). This shows in my copy of rage also so I wonder if there was some variation - my Defender is a 99MY Extreme 2.5tdi.

Howard

[460cixy]

Late model just has a single lock nut arrangement I think there staked from memory I haven't done one in a long while

[weeds]

Thanks to all and to Kelvin especially for his detailed explanation.

I am 69 and trying such things for the first time (simple matter of economics) so appreciate all and any advice.

Re the spanner. I have withdrawn the axle so figured a 50/55mm socket would do? Will accurately measure it before I go to cairns today.

One thing that puzzles me - I cannot see a lock washer (or more specifically a bent tab). This shows in my copy of rage also so I wonder if there was some variation - my Defender is a 99MY Extreme 2.5tdi.

Howard

i thought td5 should still have lock washers.....i doubt anybody would have modified the setup. i would have thought you would stil be running a slas diff

52mm from memory, if you have a landy repairer in cairns they should stock hub nut spanners, $10-$15 much cheaper than a socket

[DeanoH]

This setup with a tab washer keyed onto the axle stub is very common and used on most 4WD's to hold it all together. It's used on Landys, Nissans, Toyotas, Jeeps and even on my Oka. Unless there's some fancy arrangement using pins (like the rear of some troopys or aftermarket Dana) to achieve the same end I'd be very wary here. If there's a keyway in the stub axle it's there for a reason, to take a tab washer.

Be especially careful if there's no tab on the LHS as the rotation of the wheel naturally 'unwinds' the nut with potentially catastrophicc results. Some vehicles have left hand threads to overcome this potential problem. :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1301.jpg

This is what happened here back in 1979 going up the Cape. An incompetant 'mechanic' serviced the wheel bearings, assembled incorrrectly and didn't bend the tabs over.

Take a nut with you when you go into town. My old Landy tube spanner also fits some Jeep, Toyota and Nissan 4WD's as well.

Deano :)

[Psimpson7]

Late model just has a single lock nut arrangement I think there staked from memory I haven't done one in a long while

This is correct. Td5's don't have 2 lock nuts. They have a spacer between the bearings to set the clearance, and one nut which is done up tight then staked.

You can swap to the earlier 2 locknut setup if you wish as the stubs axles are the same.

not very clear but does show it:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1300.jpg

[weeds]

This is correct. Td5's don't have 2 lock nuts. They have a spacer between the bearings to set the clearance, and one nut which is done up tight then staked.

You can swap to the earlier 2 locknut setup if you wish as the stubs axles are the same.

not very clear but does show it:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1300.jpg

thanks pete, are these nuts a use once only?

[Rick Fischer]

i thought td5 should still have lock washers.....i doubt anybody would have modified the setup. i would have thought you would stil be running a slas diff

52mm from memory, if you have a landy repairer in cairns they should stock hub nut spanners, $10-$15 much cheaper than a socket

2 1/16" actually, but 52 will do :p However, if it is on a Puma the "tin" tube spanner type may not be up to the 150 ft lbs torque required to "preload" , nor may they have the square drive needed for torque wrench.

Standard socket won't go over the axle, needs to be "deep"

I was lucky, club member had toolmaker "homemade" jobbie. Need to build my own.

Note that on Puma the Nut itself is staked, not the washer. Having recently done mine (last week) reckon nut can be used twice but needs to be replaced next time (with correct torque it goes back exactly the same place).

Cheers

RF

[rick130]

Rick, the tube type works fine up to 90lb/ft, and mines worked OK since my first Jeep in 1984. (yes, they use the same nut ;))

IIRC mines a 3/4" drive so I just use a 3/4" male/male square drive adapter and a socket on the tension wrench.

BTW, I'm guessing in theory you'd need a few spare shims with TD5's and TDCi's to set the pre-load correctly when changing wheel bearings or even to account for minor wear in the cone.

As we've discussed before, I like the old double nut/lock washer setup.

It's dead simple to get the pre-load right, wind the lock nut on, bend the lock washer and off you go.

[Rick Fischer]

Rick, the tube type works fine up to 90lb/ft, and mines worked OK since my first Jeep in 1984. (yes, they use the same nut ;))

IIRC mines a 3/4" drive so I just use a 3/4" male/male square drive adapter and a socket on the tension wrench.

BTW, I'm guessing in theory you'd need a few spare shims with TD5's and TDCi's to set the pre-load correctly when changing wheel bearings or even to account for minor wear in the cone.

As we've discussed before, I like the old double nut/lock washer setup.

It's dead simple to get the pre-load right, wind the lock nut on, bend the lock washer and off you go.


I might be lucky, no shims! Might be different when I eventually have to change a/all the bearings out. That woudl possible be the time to double nutting it.

RF

[TimNZ]

BTW, I'm guessing in theory you'd need a few spare shims


So call me pedantic for carrying these around :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1279.jpg

(in the car, not on my person...)

[rick130]

So call me pedantic for carrying these around :)



(in the car, not on my person...)

You're a pedant :D

At least you don't have them jammed in you pockets, that'd just be weird :p

[DeanoH]

Seems to me that the 'old' system is simpler, cheaper, has no 'specialised' parts and is a lot easier to fix on the road.

Is there any benefit with the 'new' system.?

Deano :)