Mitchell Bros. Hitch

[Burmo]

Need some information regarding Mitchell Bros. Hitch on our recent holidays we were towing our off road caravan with our Discovery 4 which had been fiited with a mitchell bros. hitch our caravan weigh is 3200kg and the mitchell bros hitch is rated at 3500kg as we were towing our van the bolt in the hitch snap in half the hitch fell down off the vehicle and the caravan was on the ground. has anyone had any problem with these hitches.:mad:

[mowog]

Was it the bolt that goes through the recovery point?

[AnD3rew]

That's a worry?

[oldsalt]

Certainly is a worry :o which bolt gave way ? I thought these things were pretty well bulletproof...do you have any pictures ?
This will be an interesting thread to follow.

[discotwinturbo]

That's a worry?

Me x 2

I tow a very heavy trailer and on offroad caravan. I also use it to snatch.....this is a big worry.

Brett....

[Tombie]

Seeing as the Mitch has 3 bolts holding it up...
What happened to the other 2?

Are you (OP) the 1st owner of vehicle & hitch?
Was the bolt done tight?

Sounds like something was incorrect to begin with.

[101RRS]

The early versions of Mitch Hitch had a cross bolt that I believe could bend after repeated use at max or excessive heavy loads so the hitch tended to point down just a little. I do not believe any actually broke. This was certainly corrected with a heavier duty bolt before I bought mine a couple of years ago and up to now have not heard of any issues.

If purchased new for the D4 this is certainly a worry.

Garry

[murray073]

I recently purchased a second hand hitch from Ken on the sunshine coast. He told me that it was one of the early hitches (No, 13) & it came originaly with a 12 mm bolt through the recovery lug at the top. He also had problems with the bolt bending. He said he contacted Mitchel Bros. & they said there was an upgrade kit available for the earlier models at a cost of $100. He did buy this kit which now uses a 16mm bolt & has had no problems since. The bolt is as straight a die. Apparently Mitchel bros have a record of everyone who purchased the hitches when new becuase when Ken contacted them & he told them the hitch No. they had all his details. You would think if this is the case they would contact all the owners with the smaller bolts and provide them with an upgrade as the hitch doesn't appear to be capable of supporting the rated capacity with the 12mm bolt. What size bolt is yours fitted with?

Cheers

Murray

[Steve223]

that is a concern indeed as I use the MH to tow my CT which is much lighter though, but also use it for recoveries. will give Mitch brothers s call

[Calis]

I had a Mitchell Bros (in Sydney) hitch installed on my D4 about 1 month ago and they told me two changes made from the previous version which is the safety chain mount points have been moved slightly and the bolts used are stronger then the previous version.

If you have an earlier version and are concerned or had bolts brake I'd give them a call for sure.

[roamer]

What Murray says is 100% correct

Actually said, " if you use it off road with small bolt it WILL happen"

If your hitch is not level, check it
Noticed mine before bolt broke,but it was going to

Like Tombie said, wouldn't have thought it would fall off,but would have bent something

Cheers Ken

[AnD3rew]

Is There any way you can tell which version you have? I bought mine from Davis about 6 months ago, but no idea how long it had been in their stock.

[Tombie]

Is There any way you can tell which version you have? I bought mine from Davis about 6 months ago, but no idea how long it had been in their stock.

Look at the diameter of the bolt going through the original recovery point :cool:

[mervwho]

Need some information regarding Mitchell Bros. Hitch on our recent holidays we were towing our off road caravan with our Discovery 4 which had been fiited with a mitchell bros. hitch our caravan weigh is 3200kg and the mitchell bros hitch is rated at 3500kg as we were towing our van the bolt in the hitch snap in half the hitch fell down off the vehicle and the caravan was on the ground. has anyone had any problem with these hitches.:mad:

It would be very nice if the original poster got back to us all instead of leaving us in limbo as to which bolt snapped.......It is after all his first post and for something that quite a lot of us are currently using, this is of serious concern and if correct needs to be brought to the attention of Mitchell Brothers and for those of us with one for the potential problem to be rectified.

[oldsalt]

Yep - it would be nice to have a bit more info re the break, and some photos of same. This is a very important piece of equipment for us who tow and I'd certainly like to know more...
cheers

[Blue C]

Agree with above comments. I just checked the bolt on my MH and it barely measures 12mm (fitted to my D3 in early 2010). Does not appear bent (yet) but max weight of my offroad camper is 1800kg so maybe just lucky. Will definitely be inquiring about upgrade kit though. David

[101RRS]

If the original bolt is an issue you should not have to buy a $100 kit - it should be corrected free of charge as a safety issue by the manufacturers - after all the original hitch does have to meet ADR compliance requirements for a 3500kg bar and doesn't seem too.

Garry

[TerryO]

Need some information regarding Mitchell Bros. Hitch on our recent holidays we were towing our off road caravan with our Discovery 4 which had been fiited with a mitchell bros. hitch our caravan weigh is 3200kg and the mitchell bros hitch is rated at 3500kg as we were towing our van the bolt in the hitch snap in half the hitch fell down off the vehicle and the caravan was on the ground. has anyone had any problem with these hitches.:mad:


I'd be interested to get more details (including photo's if possible) on this as well as it doesn't sound 100% right.

I have a early MH that needed the new bolt kit fitting after the original bolt bent from towing our 2.5 ton off road on some pretty rough tracks, however I had bought it second hand and found out later that I should have replaced the spacer before fitting it so I must accept some blame for it failing. All it did was come loose though and bend down about 10 mm from standard and it was very obvious to see.

As Tombie said it has three bolts so what happened to the other two bolts, there is no mention of these failing and they would have had to fail for it to fall off. So we need much more information before trying to come to any conclusions.

cheers,
Terry

[Tombie]

Guys... Stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

Yes, the bolt has been upgraded in the new ones.
Yes a kit is available.

However, this is a single event, not a common one..
Lets keep some perspective hey!?

After all, a wheel falling off is more likely...

[101RRS]

However, this is a single event, not a common one..
L

What is becoming clear is it is more than a single event and maybe more common than we think.

Garry

[Tombie]

What is becoming clear is it is more than a single event and maybe more common than we think.

Garry

Rubbish :angel:

Its happened (so claimed by missing OP) once

The only other thing that has happened is bending of the original 12mm bolt size.

No-one else has had one break free completely - as far as we are all aware.

So no, its not becoming quite apparent that it is common, it is becoming "apparent" that they can bend on older 12mm bolted units requiring upgrading to the new 16mm version.

No-one else has posted a complete failure, and the OP (who is miraculously MIA) still hasn't answered how the entire unit fell away when it is held on by three bolts, not one...

Nor do we know context - the MH is not made with a WDH in mind either, so lets see the context of how this D4 was being used, towing what, where and if any WDH etc were in use...

Until then, lets stick to facts...

[TerryO]

For what it's worth I had already pmed the originator of this thread and asked him to respond with photo's if he has any and any further information that could be important.

Lets wait and see what comes he comes back with.

cheers,
Terry

[101RRS]

Rubbish :angel:



Nonsense :angel: - you have your view I have mine.

[Graeme]

how the entire unit fell away when it is held on by three bolts, not one...If the top bolt was not in-situ then the plate would bend under the weight of the van on the end of the coupling and possibly break the bolts off in the process.

[IvanR]

If the bolt though the towing eye is bending as much what "TerryO" experenced it suggests that bolt is not the proper grade or even HT. Ordinary bolts will bend but HT (eg grade 8) will not bend but will break.

IvanR

[Graeme]

A 12mm bolt just isn't thick enough to not bend due to the lateral forces even when HT. If might be different if the bush was solid rather than flexible but still undersized. The flexible bush itself seems a strange fitment because the lower bolts are rigid but perhaps the metal has enough elasticity to tolerate the flexing.

[BobD]

A 12mm bolt just isn't thick enough to not bend due to the lateral forces even when HT. If might be different if the bush was solid rather than flexible but still undersized. The flexible bush itself seems a strange fitment because the lower bolts are rigid but perhaps the metal has enough elasticity to tolerate the flexing.

I was thinking the same thing after I had a look at mine and saw the plastic bush, which I didn't know was there. It is a strange mixture of rigid and flexible. Mine has the 16 mm bolt and hasn't given me any problems.

A couple of months ago I used my Mitch hitch to try to snatch my son in law's 80 series out of a creek at Cape Le Grande in Esperance. I had a new snatch strap and looped it around the pin in the hitch receiver. The 80 series was stuck fast and I did a pretty fast run up in a desperate attempt to free him after several gentler pulls. I nearly went through the windscreen but the snatch strap snapped and the 80 series stayed in the flowing water in the tidal zone on the beach. The only damage was that the pin was bent. No issues at all with the Mitch hitch. At one stage we used three 4WD's in a line with my D4 attached to the 80 series via the Mitch hitch and the others pulling from the front recovery point.

The 80 series ended up staying put all night with the water half way up the doors at high tide. He got towed out by a farmer's tractor in the morning and ended up with a broken centre diff and snapped rear tail shaft for his troubles, not to mention salt water in every bearing, diffs, gearbox and inside the car.

Bob

[TerryO]

The bolt on mine was bent but the part that had the most damage was the <(I'm guessing) neoprene bush which had turned nearly to mush.

With a larger bolt the bush is also smaller given less room for wear and tear, and as I said when I rang them they told me that one should always replace the bush if the hitch is removed for any reason, which sounds fair.

I do agree with Garry though that they should have replaced the undersized bolts and oversized bushes gratis rather then charging everyone for the new kit when the originals failed as it was obviously not quite fit for purpose in the original design.

cheers,
Terry

[roamer]

and as I said when I rang them they told me that one should always replace the bush if the hitch is removed for any reason, which sounds fair.

I do agree with Garry though that they should have replaced the undersized bolts and oversized bushes gratis rather then charging everyone for the new kit when the originals failed as it was obviously not quite fit for purpose in the original design.

cheers,
Terry

Terry did they give you a reason why you would need to replace the crush tube , I cann't think why,
nylock nut probably should be replaced

[TerryO]

Sorry Roamer not that I remember, I bet they will be getting all sorts of phone calls today from others on here asking questions so chances are there will be feedback by later today.

Personally I reckon the Mitch Hitch is one of the best bits of aftermarket kit that I have fitted on our D3.

cheers,
Terry

[CaverD3]

I think the crush tubes were too long on early hitches. This led to the expanding bush being unable to close and expand properly. Since the bush is loose it will wear in the recovery eye and bend and may eventually break when given a shock load.
I have seen a return which failed when it hit a wshout at spead. Van stayed attached. The hitch just bent and stayed attached via the bottom plate.
It is always good practice to check and tighten the bolts particularly the top bolt.

[Tombie]

Nonsense :angel: - you have your view I have mine.

On what bit Garry? I'm only suggesting we stick to facts.

So far we only have the (1) claimed total failure. No substance yet and nothing to base it on.

To date this is the only claim I've found (searched a heap of other forums).

Doesn't provide sufficient info at this stage to ascertain cause, model, mode of failure, circumstances etc.

Example: he may have suffered a rear end collision the week before. Or dropped off a rock ledge smashing the hitch hard. Or poor installation etc etc.

Without info we cannot work this out.

Something still stinks though - what happened to the other 2 bolts?????

I totally agree with you that they should replace / provide upgrade/rework kit for free.

[weeds]

ummm, i agree with tombie, we haven't got the full story.....

this is Burmo's first and only post and he has been back on the forum since Terry's PM and hasn't given us an update......

[mervwho]

ummm, i agree with tombie, we haven't got the full story.....

this is Burmo's first and only post and he has been back on the forum since Terry's PM and hasn't given us an update......

It sounds like ........ 'sucked in' ... four pages long. If you want to shoot down a product what better way to do it than on a forum like this for an item that quite a lot of us use.
'A picture is worth a thousand words.' In this case would be a clarifying moment.
Cheers

[weeds]

It sounds like ........ 'sucked in' ... four pages long. If you want to shoot down a product what better way to do it than on a forum like this for an item that quite a lot of us use.
'A picture is worth a thousand words.' In this case would be a clarifying moment.
Cheers

or he might be helping out another company that is about to release a hitch......

[TerryO]

Or he may have been in contact with his lawyers since the first post and they might have told him to keep his mouth shut in public on the topic. Still that would not stop him putting up a couple of happy snaps to show his original post is genuine.

So lets give Burmo the opportunity to back up his original comment with a picture or two, who knows he might become a valuable member of the forum if we give him a chance.

Anyway again this thread is going down the path of pure speculation, this time on his intent.

cheers,
Terry

[weeds]

Or he may have been in contact with his lawyers since the first post and they might have told him to keep his mouth shut in public on the topic.
Terry

sounds like speculation to me

[CaverD3]

As this hitch was originallly my idea and I was involved in the initial design I may be more informed.
I never did see the point in the crush tube. Crush tubes are used for rubber/silicone/poly bushes which are very compressable to restrict the compression of the bush. The bushs used in the hitch is nylon which is not very compressable. It is in two parts which when tightened together forces the outer part to expand. The is a limit to the amount the nylon itself will compress and mould into the metal recovery eye.
I have seen two failed hitches both of which were in the early batch made. The original poster would have had at least a lter match or the new design as he has a D4. I think given the new design it is more likely that the failure was due to poor installation or failure to re-tighten after first use.

[oldsalt]

I'd still like to see some photos and/or a detailed report on what caused the failure, as I stated in an earlier post this is a very important piece of equipment for us that wish to tow with our vehicles... I was going to buy a Mitch hitch (from Ritters - Melb) very soon, but I've put it off for a while till I see some more detail of this particular case. If it all comes down to a newer version of the hitch/bolts/bushes I'd want to make sure I was buying the correct one.
It would be nice if the Mitch hitch people themselves put some sort of post on here (assuming that they are aware of the incident of course) this would go a long way to allay an concerns that people may have about their product.
Thanks to everyone who has put in their two cents worth - the value of this forum is immeasurable.
cheers

[CaverD3]

All hitches have had the larger bolt for a couple of years. Unfortunately Mitchell bros don't frequent here as they are more Jap crap modification types. :(:angel:

[jimc]

One post and now crickets. I smell a troll.

[DiscoDavey]

...I was going to buy a Mitch hitch (from Ritters - Melb) very soon, but I've put it off for a while till I see some more detail of this particular case....

Hmmm If you asked me (no one usually does) to choose between the words of a "one post wonder" and the several very experience posters/Mitch Hitch users I know who I'm believing. At this stage this one post wonder is like a little terrorist (OK - a bit extreme) as he's already put off one potential buyer. Even if it does turn out to be true there certainly doesn't seem to be too many other people complaining about them, in fact many people in this thread have made mention of how good they have found them in some pretty extreme scenarios.

Don't let the mud stick!

..And apologies to our new poster if it is true, but perhaps a lesson is learnt in timely posts!

[oldsalt]

I'll be ringing Mitch hitch a little later today to ask about the batch number/bolt diameter etc so I can have a look before I buy my hitch.
The "silence" of the original poster does seem to point in the direction of a "troll" ... apologies if you are not ... but then again it always pays to check and recheck before you lay down your hard-earned cash for accessories ...
cheers

[incisor]

yep, best idea is hear it from the horses mouth.. i'd be ringing them.

not everybody lives on forums so i wouldn't be sticking the OP with the troll tag over one post where he was asking if any one else had an issue ..

[rodjam]

I met with Aaron Mitchell today, as I have some works in progress and mentioned the forum posts...
Both to bring him up to date with the comments and secure his comments.
He was a little bemused!!
He has not had time to look at the forums lately, holidays and working hard, but he commented that someone had rung.

Maybe they are the same elusive person.

It was an old serial number, over 5 years old.
By their own admission they had welded bits onto and modified the hitch.
But also by their own admission they had clouted the hitch on "something substantial" as they climbed out of something....somewhere or other...

He would be very interested to get some more information as nothing more has been heard.

I related to him my most recent experience in Abercrombie NP where the van followed most comfortably hitched to the substantial addition. I have to say that I have tested it over some very difficult locations and have no doubts it is 100% effective.

There is no way I would have been comfortable with the LD plough!.

Hopefully, our poster will make comment...
If he does not, I think we can all make our own conclusions.

[incisor]

Hopefully, our poster will make comment...
If he does not, I think we can all make our own conclusions.

maybe the penny dropped and that is why th OP never bothered pursuing it either way.. who knows.

good to get some idea of what the history was from the other side of the fence it has to be said.

thanks

[Tombie]

Just to let people know.

My Mitch hitch arrived a week ago.

16mm main bolt.

Will be fitting next rostered break, along with newly acquired long ranger tank and 4x4DE Swing away wheel carrier.

(Bring on the shed day) :cool:

[Blue C]

I took my D3 with Mitchell hitch fitted early 2010 by Opp Lock in SA back to OL for inspection today. They confirmed it has 12mm bolt but there is no sign of any problem. My camper is only ~1800kg loaded and I have had no issues Offroad despite some fairly challenging tracks. OL had contacted Mitchell Bros this week and confirmed OP had 2nd hand hitch and that OP had admitted that it was not torqued to original specs. I have been assured mine was torqued as specified and that Mitchell Bros stand by original rating but decided to upgrade to 16mm bolt to allow for possibility that some units might not be always torqued exactly to spec. I guess each individual forum member can decide whether to accept that. I asked about upgrading but was advised I will need to pay the $100. For now I am choosing not too as I feel confident my current towing requirements are well within the original rating. I would be more than happy to recommend this hitch to a prospective purchaser especially now that 16mm bolt is standard. Regards, David

[TerryO]

Below is a copy of a blog that Burmo (the op) put up as an answer to everyone's questions, so he did try to do the correct thing by answering the questions in the correct time frame, however he just put the reply in the wrong area and we all missed it.

I think it covers most of what went wrong and answers most everyone's questions and confirms what many suspected happened.

I thought this needed to be followed up on as it raised some serious questions re Mitch Hitch's that shouldn't continue to go unanswered.

cheers,
Terry



Mitchell Bros Hitch

Posted 24th January 2013 at 09:55 PM by Burmo
Sorry I haven't been back to answer your questions earlier as I have been trying to resolve what may have caused this incident.Yes it was the top 12mm bolt that snapped (still held on by the 2 bottom bolts although considerably bent). There are many reasons why this may have happened keeping in mind our 21 ft off road van weight aprox 3.2 t, ball weight aprox 330kg.
(1) The hitch I was using was second hand so I have no idea weather it was the orrigional bolt and nut. Word is the bolts and nuts should only be used once, if not the nylon nut could have become loose. I was surprised to find out from one of your blogs that an upgrade of this bolt is available.
(2) The tongue I was using was a Hayman Reece with the WDH head (i was NOT using the WD bars) as i required extra height for our van. This tongue as standard put the ball a long way out from the hitch, hence giving it a larger amount of leverage on the top bolt (although it allowed the tailgate to be lowered). There does not appear to be a specific tongue to suite this hitch although now I are trying to get MB to recomend me one.
(3) I am not an engineer but I feel the bolt used should have been longer so that the thread was outside the hitch and washers used to tighten it up. This would allow for a solid section of bolt through all pulling points. My bolt snapped where the thread ended.
After extensive calls to MB they have assured me the bolt on the latest hitch has been increased both in size and length. They have recomended a Combination Pintal Hook and Tow Ball. We are in the process of getting a new MB hitch and possibly this tow ball arrangement.
The guys at MB have been very helpfull and great to talk to. I feel very confident they will get the correct assembly for us in the end. I will have more information when we get the final fittment to our vehicle.

Burmo.

[Tombie]

Hmmm

Original Statement

Need some information regarding Mitchell Bros. Hitch on our recent holidays we were towing our off road caravan with our Discovery 4 which had been fitted with a Mitchell bros. hitch our caravan weigh is 3200kg and the Mitchell bros hitch is rated at 3500kg as we were towing our van the bolt in the hitch snap in half the hitch fell down off the vehicle and the caravan was on the ground. has anyone had any problem with these hitches.:angry:


Posted 24th January 2013 at 09:55 PM by Burmo
Sorry I haven't been back to answer your questions earlier as I have been trying to resolve what may have caused this incident.Yes it was the top 12mm bolt that snapped (still held on by the 2 bottom bolts although considerably bent). There are many reasons why this may have happened keeping in mind our 21 ft off road van weight aprox 3.2 t, ball weight approx 330kg.
(1) The hitch I was using was second hand so I have no idea weather it was the original bolt and nut. Word is the bolts and nuts should only be used once, if not the nylon nut could have become loose. I was surprised to find out from one of your blogs that an upgrade of this bolt is available.
(2) The tongue I was using was a Hayman Reece with the WDH head (i was NOT using the WD bars) as i required extra height for our van. This tongue as standard put the ball a long way out from the hitch, hence giving it a larger amount of leverage on the top bolt (although it allowed the tailgate to be lowered). There does not appear to be a specific tongue to suite this hitch although now I are trying to get MB to recommend me one.
(3) I am not an engineer but I feel the bolt used should have been longer so that the thread was outside the hitch and washers used to tighten it up. This would allow for a solid section of bolt through all pulling points. My bolt snapped where the thread ended.
After extensive calls to MB they have assured me the bolt on the latest hitch has been increased both in size and length. They have recommended a Combination Pintal Hook and Tow Ball. We are in the process of getting a new MB hitch and possibly this tow ball arrangement.
The guys at MB have been very helpful and great to talk to. I feel very confident they will get the correct assembly for us in the end. I will have more information when we get the final fitments to our vehicle.

Burmo.

Would have been nice to have the open, up front facts before..

2nd hand hitch
Old re-used bolt and bush
Excessively long tongue assembly
Tow hitch never actually came away from vehicle

Would have stopped a lot of panic and fear and prevented the premature conclusion jumping this thread displayed :)

[ADMIRAL]

Burmo,

Hayman Reese manufacture a variety of towing lugs, some are solid billet, and have a decent load rating. They also have released recently, a height adjustable head, suitable for use on a weight distribution lug. This head, does not have any of the associated brackets etc for use with weight distribution hitches, and load levelling bars, but is for use with the weight distribution lugs. It allows the full range of height adjustment as per a weight distribution setup, and with the use of the WDH lugs, the same tow rating at 350kg ball weight.
P
Find a HR dealer and have a good chat. If you can't find one over there, I will dig out some numbers for you.

ps. I have a Mitchell Bros hitch fitted to my D4, and use a Hayman Reese towing lug.

[MitchellBros4x4]

Hi All,

We are responding to this post to clarify a couple of points raised in various posts through this thread.

1) The original 12mm bolt section failed on three occurances. The first issue occured because the owner of the hitch decided to modify the hitch (without consultation) which allowed the main top bolt to come loose which in turn destroyed the top bushing which caused the bolt to break. In the second instance the bolt broke due to incorrect tension and no secondary tensioning or inspection of the top bolt. Both of these situation could have been avoided by follow the specifications provided and NOT modifying the components. The third case was a second hand fitting kit which should never have been fitted to the vehicle in the first place.

2) The top bush assembly is single use only, if they are removed from the vehicle they must be replaced along with all Nyloc nuts (3). We supply a replacement fitting kit for those who wish to remove the hitch regularly.

In both cases the hitch has stayed attached to the vehicle.

We cannot allow for modifications to the hitch nor do we accept responsibility for failures in this case. Similarly, we cannot accountable in the case that maintenance and re tensioning of all bolts is not undertaken.

We would always prefer the hitch to be fitted by competent persons, we cannot make allowances for individuals mechanical aptitude, or lack of it.

We can confirm the details that were posted (we have not actually seen the original reply post) in this thread are correct and that a series of issues caused the failure of the hitch

Thanks to all those who keep level heads and don't jump to conclusions.

CaverD3, you know we love "Jap Crap" but we still support Rover.

[roamer]

Hi All,

We are responding to this post to clarify a couple of points raised in various posts through this thread.

1) The original 12mm bolt section failed on three occurances. The first issue occured because the owner of the hitch decided to modify the hitch (without consultation) which allowed the main top bolt to come loose which in turn destroyed the top bushing which caused the bolt to break. In the second instance the bolt broke due to incorrect tension and no secondary tensioning or inspection of the top bolt. Both of these situation could have been avoided by follow the specifications provided and NOT modifying the components. The third case was a second hand fitting kit which should never have been fitted to the vehicle in the first place.

2) The top bush assembly is single use only, if they are removed from the vehicle they must be replaced along with all Nyloc nuts (3). We supply a replacement fitting kit for those who wish to remove the hitch regularly.

In both cases the hitch has stayed attached to the vehicle.

We cannot allow for modifications to the hitch nor do we accept responsibility for failures in this case. Similarly, we cannot accountable in the case that maintenance and re tensioning of all bolts is not undertaken.

We would always prefer the hitch to be fitted by competent persons, we cannot make allowances for individuals mechanical aptitude, or lack of it.

We can confirm the details that were posted (we have not actually seen the original reply post) in this thread are correct and that a series of issues caused the failure of the hitch

Thanks to all those who keep level heads and don't jump to conclusions.

CaverD3, you know we love "Jap Crap" but we still support Rover.



Well mine failed and I'm not in any of the above examples
Even when I noticed it starting to tilt, the torque on the bolt was still correct

Ken

[Tombie]

Well mine failed and I'm not in any of the above examples
Even when I noticed it starting to tilt, the torque on the bolt was still correct

Ken

"Started" to tilt is not a failure.

It may be a sign of one beginning - but it is not a failure.

The correct version of your statement would read something like:

Well mine is not in any of the above examples, however mine showed signs of fatigue.
Even when I noticed it starting to tilt, the torque on the bolt was still correct



In much the same way an Electric Shock is not the same as Electrocuted.

[roamer]

"Started" to tilt is not a failure.

It may be a sign of one beginning - but it is not a failure.

The correct version of your statement would read something like:




In much the same way an Electric Shock is not the same as Electrocuted.


WTF
Yeah you get an electric shock just prior to getting electrocuted
And you get fatigue just prior to failure

[jon3950]

"Started" to tilt is not a failure.

It may be a sign of one beginning - but it is not a failure.

The correct version of your statement would read something like:

In much the same way an Electric Shock is not the same as Electrocuted.

Seriously?

Its not a catastrophic failure, but its still a failure.

It may not be a design fault, but if something moves when its not supposed to, something has failed.

Cheers,
Jon

[TerryO]

There is a neoprene looking bush in a Mitch Hitch that wears out eventually, this is no different to any bush in any motor vehicle that wears out.

Roamer you clocked up some big miles if I remember rightly both on and off road towing your decent sized camper van. I would hazard a guess there were a few other parts that wore out on your D4 in that time.

Given yours was a 2009 D4 was your Mitch Hitch one of the earlier models like mine with the smaller bolt and larger bush?

cheers,
Terry

[roamer]

Terry

Your right its the bush that distorted, but 65k is not big miles
and yes a D4 can pull a just under 2 ton KK into some places that others struggle with a 1ton camper,they really are unbelievable,

And would think the guys who just tow vans on blacktop and gravel and NP roads will not have a problem with the hitch.

But it was designed to go onto the best 4x4 tower ever, and rated at 3.5 ton. Maybe their love of jap crap hindered the design for a D4s capability :)

So when it starts to fail like that (in the middle of nowhere) and you ring them and get told that if you use it extreme offroad there is an update, for $100 :eek: (they were good at getting it to me) ,I find that abit rude.
Also I don't think that bigger bolt will stop the bush from distorting.

I went back to the LR hitch and had no problems , go figure.

Ken

Ps the marks on the end of the bush are not from movement, I pulled it out and turned it around with new bolt, to get out of trouble.

[TerryO]

Thanks Ken for replying, my bush looked worse than that when it was taken out I must admit. However I bought mine secondhand and never replaced the bush or bolt and as explained by Mitch Hitch that is a no no which I now can understand why.

Since getting the new bush and larger bolt it has worked well with no issues even after repeatedly dragging our 2.5 ton van through some very rough and often fairly steep stepped bush tracks on occasion.

I don't mind admitting that I was annoyed that a simple upgrade with a smaller bush and larger bolt cost so much to buy though.

cheers,
Terry

[roamer]

Terry
Why does the bush and bolt need to be replaced every time ?

Ken

[discotwinturbo]

Terry
So when it starts to fail like that (in the middle of nowhere) and you ring them and get told that if you use it extreme offroad there is an update, for $100 :eek: (they were good at getting it to me) ,I find that abit rude.
.

It's called fleecing and gouging....something we are great at in Australia.

The price is ridiculous for a bush and a bolt!

On a US forum they have talked about this hitch and the massive price for the hitch....but to me there was not alternative and Mitch Bros knew this. But most things appear cheap in the US to me. Someone was going to make his own from the photos he had of the Mitch Hitch, others said that they would be prepared to purchase from him at half the price. Don't know where it's up to though.

The rapid 6 inch adjustable hitch, I had delivered to me door for $170....it was $500 at the last 4wd show.

Brett.....

[MitchellBros4x4]

Terry

Your right its the bush that distorted, but 65k is not big miles
and yes a D4 can pull a just under 2 ton KK into some places that others struggle with a 1ton camper,they really are unbelievable,

And would think the guys who just tow vans on blacktop and gravel and NP roads will not have a problem with the hitch.

But it was designed to go onto the best 4x4 tower ever, and rated at 3.5 ton. Maybe their love of jap crap hindered the design for a D4s capability :)

So when it starts to fail like that (in the middle of nowhere) and you ring them and get told that if you use it extreme offroad there is an update, for $100 :eek: (they were good at getting it to me) ,I find that abit rude.
Also I don't think that bigger bolt will stop the bush from distorting.

I went back to the LR hitch and had no problems , go figure.

Ken

Ps the marks on the end of the bush are not from movement, I pulled it out and turned it around with new bolt, to get out of trouble.

Thanks for your input Ken, we have reviewed the images you have provided and notice several things about the bush.

The bolt is a 12mm unit.
The bolt appears to have come loose and which has caused the bush to deform.

Our installation instructions indicate the initial installation process and the maintenance and retorquing procedure. If either of these steps are not followed, this is potentially what can occur.

The upgraded version to 16mm fitting is a standard upgrade because we no longer support the 12mm bush. We have never stated anything about "extreme offroad" or any other type of driving. If the hitch has been damaged, removed or otherwise tampered with, the fitting kit assembly needs to be replaced to avoid this situatiuon.

If at any time anyone is concerned about their hitch we strongly urge them to contact us during business hours on 02 9905 4764 or email to sales@mitchellbros4x4.com.au.

We are always happy to entertain questions or queries at any time for any reason.

[gghaggis]

I wish every supplier responded like this! Mitchell Bros and Traxide seem to unfortunately be exceptions, rather than the rule.

Cheers,

Gordon

[MitchellBros4x4]

It's called fleecing and gouging....something we are great at in Australia.

The price is ridiculous for a bush and a bolt!

On a US forum they have talked about this hitch and the massive price for the hitch....but to me there was not alternative and Mitch Bros knew this. But most things appear cheap in the US to me. Someone was going to make his own from the photos he had of the Mitch Hitch, others said that they would be prepared to purchase from him at half the price. Don't know where it's up to though.

The rapid 6 inch adjustable hitch, I had delivered to me door for $170....it was $500 at the last 4wd show.

Brett.....


Thanks for posting Brett.

People are entitled to their opinions but suggesting that we are fleecing or gouging we take offence to.

You clearly have no idea about how much effort went into R&D on this product and just to give you some idea about how much, we didn't break even until we had sold several hundred units. You know the retail price, figure it out.

Just to try to help you understand, we have engineering certification on this item, this alone cost us an amount plus 4 zero's at the end. We also have annual insurance premiums which cover our product. We have to build this into our pricing which you are quick to make comment about but it's our pricing which keeps our doors open which also supports the products we manufacture which keeps 5 Australian families food on their table, plus our distribution channels which has countless more families to support.

We suspect that you purchased your Rapid hitch from online and probably overseas, you sir are part of the problem. Australian business is under extreme amounts of financial pressure to keep their doors open and part of this pressure comes from online sellers with low overheads and low prices. When you have a problem with your product, who will you turn to?? Your local 4wd store, no, he has had to shut his doors, the online seller?? maybe but it's hard to get hold of them because they don't supply a phone number or someone to help you when you need it. What are you going to do sir when you have a warranty problem?? send the part back overseas and wait for a resolution??

Have you seen what happens to the original Land Rover supplied hitch when they fail?? You just keep using your stock towing device and imported Rapid unit that puts excessive load on the already design inadequate original unit, it may just fail at sometime.

People can try and copy it, we knew it would eventually occur. We take this as a compliment, no one else has been able to manufacture or rival our simple and elegant design.

We welcome your feedback and thoughts on the matter, we also entertain any ideas people have about how we can make our product better moving forward.

If you wish to voice your opinions in person or by phone, our contact details are in our signature line ask for Aaron Mitchell.

[MitchellBros4x4]

I wish every supplier responded like this! Mitchell Bros and Traxide seem to unfortunately be exceptions, rather than the rule.

Cheers,

Gordon

Thanks Gordon, my last reply may also be an exception to the rule.

Can you please give us a call when you have a chance, we need to organise something with your Compo wheels.

[gghaggis]

Thanks Gordon, my last reply may also be an exception to the rule.


Mmm, perhaps :wasntme:

Just to clarify, Brett is using the Mitchell Hitch, not the LR one - it was another poster who said they'd gone back to the LR design.

Will ring this week.

Cheers,

Gordon

[TerryO]

In all fairness everyone has the right to buy any legal product from anyone who has the right to sell it, be it directly or over the internet from a OS country.

Most everything I buy is from here in Australia because I have decided to support Australian businesses where possible. But I do not judge others who buy OS, that is their business and they accept the risks and face the possible disadvantages along with the advantages when they make that decision.

cheers,
Terry

[roamer]

Thanks for your input Ken, we have reviewed the images you have provided and notice several things about the bush.

The bolt is a 12mm unit.
The bolt appears to have come loose and which has caused the bush to deform.

Our installation instructions indicate the initial installation process and the maintenance and retorquing procedure. If either of these steps are not followed, this is potentially what can occur.

The upgraded version to 16mm fitting is a standard upgrade because we no longer support the 12mm bush. We have never stated anything about "extreme offroad" or any other type of driving. If the hitch has been damaged, removed or otherwise tampered with, the fitting kit assembly needs to be replaced to avoid this situatiuon.




Hi Aaron

Thank you for the reply and for the professional manor in which it was done.

However your observations from the photo and my torque wrench differ.
All bolts on that hitch, the coupling and rims on car and KK, would have been torque tested at least weekly, over a 6 week period prior to the bush deforming,
( I know anal, but when you go away with 2 OH&S inspectors, thats what happens)
The bush bolt was checked when it was noticed that it had begun to drop, the marks on the end are from getting it off to turn it around

I'm still curious as to why the bush and all bolts would need to be replaced if removed.

I and many others do appreciate the effort made to supply an alternate hitch
and was more than happy to buy Aussie.
but if we exclusively bought Assie we would be on a Holden site now hey


Cheers Ken

[Dougal]

Just to try to help you understand, we have engineering certification on this item, this alone cost us an amount plus 4 zero's at the end. by phone, our contact details are in our signature line ask for Aaron Mitchell.

Did this engineering certification cover calculations on the 12mm bolt and crush tube?

I haven't been involved with the Mitch Hitch in any way. But I've run the calcs several times for recovery mounts. A properly torqued 12mm GR8.8 bolt requires a 25mm diameter crush-tube.

[MitchellBros4x4]

Hi Aaron

Thank you for the reply and for the professional manor in which it was done.

However your observations from the photo and my torque wrench differ.
All bolts on that hitch, the coupling and rims on car and KK, would have been torque tested at least weekly, over a 6 week period prior to the bush deforming,
( I know anal, but when you go away with 2 OH&S inspectors, thats what happens)
The bush bolt was checked when it was noticed that it had begun to drop, the marks on the end are from getting it off to turn it around

I'm still curious as to why the bush and all bolts would need to be replaced if removed.

I and many others do appreciate the effort made to supply an alternate hitch
and was more than happy to buy Aussie.
but if we exclusively bought Assie we would be on a Holden site now hey


Cheers Ken

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your reply.

I take your word on the process, you sound like you're switched on.

We try to not assume anyones level of mechanical aptitude (or lack of it) when making recommendations.

If the bolt had moved and even slightly deformed the bush you wouldn't have been able to correct it, the damage would have already been done.

Have you replaced these components yet??

The fitting kit needs to be replaced because;

The bush settles into the exact shape of the recovery eyelet, there are multiple castings of the recovery eyelet, no two are exactly the same.
The nyloc nuts are single use only, they need to be replaced if removed.

We hope this clears things up and that we have answered your questions concisely.

Is there anything else you'd like to know??

Feel free to call anytime.

02 9905 4764

[discotwinturbo]

Thanks for posting Brett.

People are entitled to their opinions but suggesting that we are fleecing or gouging we take offence to.

You clearly have no idea about how much effort went into R&D on this product and just to give you some idea about how much, we didn't break even until we had sold several hundred units. You know the retail price, figure it out.

Just to try to help you understand, we have engineering certification on this item, this alone cost us an amount plus 4 zero's at the end. We also have annual insurance premiums which cover our product. We have to build this into our pricing which you are quick to make comment about but it's our pricing which keeps our doors open which also supports the products we manufacture which keeps 5 Australian families food on their table, plus our distribution channels which has countless more families to support.

We suspect that you purchased your Rapid hitch from online and probably overseas, you sir are part of the problem. Australian business is under extreme amounts of financial pressure to keep their doors open and part of this pressure comes from online sellers with low overheads and low prices. When you have a problem with your product, who will you turn to?? Your local 4wd store, no, he has had to shut his doors, the online seller?? maybe but it's hard to get hold of them because they don't supply a phone number or someone to help you when you need it. What are you going to do sir when you have a warranty problem?? send the part back overseas and wait for a resolution??

Have you seen what happens to the original Land Rover supplied hitch when they fail?? You just keep using your stock towing device and imported Rapid unit that puts excessive load on the already design inadequate original unit, it may just fail at sometime.

People can try and copy it, we knew it would eventually occur. We take this as a compliment, no one else has been able to manufacture or rival our simple and elegant design.

We welcome your feedback and thoughts on the matter, we also entertain any ideas people have about how we can make our product better moving forward.

If you wish to voice your opinions in person or by phone, our contact details are in our signature line ask for Aaron Mitchell.

Thanks for your comments.

I am a big supporter of Australian products to a point.

I have purchased your Mitch Hitch for my D4. It was cheap insurance for a quality part, and the development to make this would have been extensive. I am very happy with what you have built for me and other D3 and D4 owners. I never trusted the factory hitch!

I would object to having to pay $100 for a bolt and bush, for someone that has purchased your product i would expect a reasonable price for this. I don't expect my larger bolt and newer bush to fail though. The small bolt obviously has been an issue. I would expect that you would have contacted those with the smaller bolt and offered them the part (it would certainly have got a great post from those purchasers about your after sales service)....I think you have previously advised that you kept a record of who purchased each Mitch Hitch. You may have already done this.....

I support Australian businesses. I am in business, and as you will see below, have also been in a 4WD business.

I have purchased GOE rims from Gordon, I have also purchased rods from Gordon, emergency airup kit from Gordon, LLAMS from Graeme and will also purchase a compressor plate from Gordon. Most of these have options overseas.....but as they are not generic, you can't beat buying them from a local, trusted Australians.

I would much rather purchase these from a trusted supplier in Australia, because if anything goes wrong then I can count on them to help me out....this will always be the case for me.

However, i do draw the line for a generic part when it is 3 times the price in Australia....that my friend is fleecing and gouging. There is absolutely no reason for this (the Australians store has no development costs for this)...there are two many middle people in the chain in Australia. I have been in the 4wd business game with my fathers accessory business (he was a pioneer in the after market accessory business well before the likes of arb....if you have been in the game long enough you will know about my dad) for more than 30 years, so I know the price and markup that is acceptable and what is not acceptable. My sister has a tyre store in nsw and they do extremely well....but they charge an exorbitant cost for tyres, but that appears to be the case with many tyre places. I know what she gets them in for, and the net profit that she makes.....I know her financial situation. I would not buy tyres from the US, for reasons that I mentioned above.

I buy my tyres from a man that his happy to make a fair days wages for a fair days work....and will support him, and tell everyone about him. He works on high turnover (no development costs), with a lower market....economics 101. But your item has a smaller market (and development costs), so the price for the hitch is fair to me.

It is excellent though for you to have come on this forum....that does show that you care about your purchasers, and gives confidence in after sales service, which is offered only by a small percentage of businesses in Australia (my uncle is a marketing guru, well renowned in Australia, so I have figures on good authority). Outstanding customer service will outway price....ordinary customer service will not.

Your Mitch Hitch is a must have accessory for anyone towing with a D3 or D4.....IMHO.

I also love your Facebook page!

Brett....

[discotwinturbo]

I wish every supplier responded like this! Mitchell Bros and Traxide seem to unfortunately be exceptions, rather than the rule.

Cheers,

Gordon

You missed Graeme, and also forgot to give yourself a pat on the back too Gordon!

Brett.....

[gghaggis]

You missed Graeme, and also forgot to give yourself a pat on the back too Gordon!

Brett.....

Yes, Graeme (LLAMS) has been a picture of professionalism. Unintended omission!

Cheers,

Gordon

[MitchellBros4x4]

Thanks for your comments.

I am a big supporter of Australian products to a point.

I have purchased your Mitch Hitch for my D4. It was cheap insurance for a quality part, and the development to make this would have been extensive. I am very happy with what you have built for me and other D3 and D4 owners. I never trusted the factory hitch!

I would object to having to pay $100 for a bolt and bush, for someone that has purchased your product i would expect a reasonable price for this. I don't expect my larger bolt and newer bush to fail though. The small bolt obviously has been an issue. I would expect that you would have contacted those with the smaller bolt and offered them the part (it would certainly have got a great post from those purchasers about your after sales service)....I think you have previously advised that you kept a record of who purchased each Mitch Hitch. You may have already done this.....

I support Australian businesses. I am in business, and as you will see below, have also been in a 4WD business.

I have purchased GOE rims from Gordon, I have also purchased rods from Gordon, emergency airup kit from Gordon, LLAMS from Graeme and will also purchase a compressor plate from Gordon. Most of these have options overseas.....but as they are not generic, you can't beat buying them from a local, trusted Australians.

I would much rather purchase these from a trusted supplier in Australia, because if anything goes wrong then I can count on them to help me out....this will always be the case for me.

However, i do draw the line for a generic part when it is 3 times the price in Australia....that my friend is fleecing and gouging. There is absolutely no reason for this (the Australians store has no development costs for this)...there are two many middle people in the chain in Australia. I have been in the 4wd business game with my fathers accessory business (he was a pioneer in the after market accessory business well before the likes of arb....if you have been in the game long enough you will know about my dad) for more than 30 years, so I know the price and markup that is acceptable and what is not acceptable. My sister has a tyre store in nsw and they do extremely well....but they charge an exorbitant cost for tyres, but that appears to be the case with many tyre places. I know what she gets them in for, and the net profit that she makes.....I know her financial situation. I would not buy tyres from the US, for reasons that I mentioned above.

I buy my tyres from a man that his happy to make a fair days wages for a fair days work....and will support him, and tell everyone about him. He works on high turnover (no development costs), with a lower market....economics 101. But your item has a smaller market (and development costs), so the price for the hitch is fair to me.

It is excellent though for you to have come on this forum....that does show that you care about your purchasers, and gives confidence in after sales service, which is offered only by a small percentage of businesses in Australia (my uncle is a marketing guru, well renowned in Australia, so I have figures on good authority). Outstanding customer service will outway price....ordinary customer service will not.

Your Mitch Hitch is a must have accessory for anyone towing with a D3 or D4.....IMHO.

I also love your Facebook page!

Brett....

Thanks for your reply, it was well constructed and concise, I appreciate it and value your feedback.

Also, thanks for not reacting to my rant, it's frustrating to see the problems that people subject themselves to when buying parts from overseas, especially vehicle specific parts. It costs everyone time and money when things go wrong and this can be avoided.

I had a client once who wanted to build his H3 Hummer and he was adamant that he would purchase the suspension kit direct from the USA because the kit was 30% dearer here in Australia. We tried really hard to sell him off the idea and even dropped our pricing to within 10% gross profit on the kit but we just couldn't get him across the line. Knowing we would get the labour installation component we just let him go and sort it out himself. 3 weeks later we received the kit and set about installing it. Very quickly we realised that the kit was not complete and some of the parts weren't going to work so we set about correcting the issue with the supplier. While it wasn't my issue to rectify in the first place, we had to get things sorted for our client. TO cut a long story short, it took the supplier (Rancho Suspension) 6 months to acknowledge the problem (after we educated them and made them realise that it wasn't our fault) and ship the parts to our door. Should we have subjected ourselves to this kind of problem?? Maybe, maybe not!! Being a friend of our we felt obliged to help him out. Should we have charged storage fees @ $55 per day whilst the vehicle sat in my shop taking up room?? Maybe, maybe not!!!

At the end of the day we make around 10% net profit on everything we do, this is nothing in the scheme of things and quite honestly, this tow hitch assembly is the single best thing we have done in our business, it has put us on the map.

We would like to thank all those who have purchased our hitch, you have helped keep us on the map.

Thanks sincerely from all of us at Mitchell Bros TJM Brookvale.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/icons/icon7.gif