Wheel Alignment

[onebob]

I'm a bit late getting onto this but a while ago when i had my suspension lift fitted (new billies and white tiger springs) the fitter told me after a test drive that the alignment was out. Interesting because I hadn't long before had new BFG ATs fitted and aligned. The fitter said to tell the tyre mob that the alignment must be TOE OUT...

Now a coupla questions....

how could he tell from a test drive?

would the suspension lift have actually changed the alignment?

my Haynes Manual says Toe adjustment is -0(deg)10' +/- 10' which i read that as no TOE OUT and that would be for highway tyres i expect OR is it different for Off road tyres??

I do find myself having to make constant tiny steering adjustments to correct left / right drift when at highway speeds. I always accepted that as a DISCO characteristic - or is it caused by alignment??

There is a a little play in the steering wheel but I'm told that's normal.

anyone been down this road before:confused:

onebob

[twr7cx]

Sounds like who ever fitted your suspension knows what they are talking about (was it Les Richmond Automotive that did the fitting?).

He is correct that the vehicle should be TOE OUT between 0 - 2mm total.

However, there is a common misconception at tyre shops about this and often they will set it to TOE IN. You usually need to tell them and specify it to them (often they will give you an odd look about it too).


Have a read of http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/150285-violent-shuddering-steering-when-cold.html - on my vehicle with the 4" lift, if it's not set correctly to toe out, I get shuddering in the steering wheel.

[onebob]

Sounds like who ever fitted your suspension knows what they are talking about (was it Les Richmond Automotive that did the fitting?).

He is correct that the vehicle should be TOE OUT between 0 - 2mm total.

However, there is a common misconception at tyre shops about this and often they will set it to TOE IN. You usually need to tell them and specify it to them (often they will give you an odd look about it too).


Have a read of http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/150285-violent-shuddering-steering-when-cold.html - on my vehicle with the 4" lift, if it's not set correctly to toe out, I get shuddering in the steering wheel.

Hi twr7cx

Yes it was LRA, thanks for the advice and the link I'm now off to get it fixed:)

onebob

[twr7cx]

Hi twr7cx

Yes it was LRA, thanks for the advice and the link I'm now off to get it fixed:)

onebob

My experience with dealing with LRA is that they are very knowledgeable, and looks like they have steered you correctly. (plus Justin Cooper says the same thing, so there should be no doubt)

[Hoges]

Most front-wheel-drive vehicles specify toe-out. When you have all wheel drive it's generally zero to a min. toe-out.

If you can find a detailed diagram of the geometry of a solid front axle suspension you will see that as the lift increases, the effective wheel base reduces also.

However in practical terms this is achieved by the front hubs essentially trying to "bend" forward... i.e. revolve in a clockwise direction around the axle when looking at the driver's side wheel. Hence the change in caster.

A change in caster can have a significant effect in the vehicle's tracking behaviour.

It's not unusual for these vehicles with their large tyres and small caster settings to drift left/right depending on the camber of the road.

Edit: PS: it's not impossible for the toe in/out to have been (unintentionally) :angel: altered if the techs removed the drag link for better clearance when replacing the springs

[Blknight.aus]

its to do with the location of the steering rods and drive more than the vehicle or the suspension.

0-2mm toe out for all beam axle all wheel drive landies
0-2mm toe in for all beam axle part time four wheel drive landies

I measure it at the tread blocks and add 1mm per 2 inches of tyre diameter.

Some landies (or the driver, take your pick love the 0 setting others need the hint of toe, if you have to go more than the nominated toe (+ extra for tyre size) to get the handling right then you need to check other things.

[onebob]

thanks you to all the responders to my post - I've been in touch with a suspension specialist on my side of town who also happens to do wheel alignment :) he understands what lifts do to the suspension geometry, looks at the camber and castor and adjusts the toe accordingly. He too ascribes to the toe out recommendation.

cheers

[clubagreenie]

In reference to castor, while I have an official 2" lift, being HD springs and not having as much weight as they seem to allow for I have about 70mm. So the castor at 2" is about 3deg. I ran for a while without correction and found it great to drive unless there's any ruts in the bitumen then it's a tram, fitted some QT 3degree arms and it's just that bit sharper (I think it's perfect, not so lazy) but not quite back to std. Sits about 1.2deg now.

I do need to remove and strip the rear axle as it's bent slightly. Not looking forward.

[Arnoooooooooold]

G'day all. Not sure if it's ok to revive an old thread but this cropped up a lot in my searches so for others I'd prefer to post here..

I just got my alignment done today and forgot to ask for 1mm toe out.

So the aligner has done 1mm toe in .. afterwards I remembered and asked him if this is correct and he said that it was..

Now I'm back home and back from work I've read this thread and know I mucked up.



Anyways my question is, will 1mm toe in affect me much?

I'm concerned about tyre wear more than anything. The car won't ever have racing car handling, and drove back home ok (but I didn't go over 70kph).

Just wondering if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, etc. Perhaps there's no real effect as long as the car is symmetrical.

[Nanna Truck]

Changed ours from 1mm toe in to 1mm toe out, stopped the tyres feathering (outside left & inside right)
Also now doesn't chase the Heavy Vehicle grooves in some Highways.
Regards
Harry.

[Arnoooooooooold]

I'll get this fixed before next weekend's trip.

Took it out this weekend and on the freeway it drove fine although I feel like I had to make quite a few adjustments to keep it roughly straight. But it was windy so to be expected.

Oddly, called a bloke at one of the centres to re-book it in (this is a big repairs chain of places) and he said they'd redo it to match Land Rover spec but that in Australia they sometimes use different specs to in Europe which could be why their system shows different values.

Can anyone confirm this? Sounds a bit odd to me. Why would a vehicle alignment change between Europe vs Australia?

[V8Ian]

I'll get this fixed before next weekend's trip.

Took it out this weekend and on the freeway it drove fine although I feel like I had to make quite a few adjustments to keep it roughly straight. But it was windy so to be expected.

Oddly, called a bloke at one of the centres to re-book it in (this is a big repairs chain of places) and he said they'd redo it to match Land Rover spec but that in Australia they sometimes use different specs to in Europe which could be why their system shows different values.

Can anyone confirm this? Sounds a bit odd to me. Why would a vehicle alignment change between Europe vs Australia?
To compensate for camber, particularly differing from left or right side driving.
I used to use a bloke in Charters Towers to do the alignment on my Western Star. The first thing he asked was what roads do I mainly drive.

[Arnoooooooooold]

I took it into a different aligner's today, specifically asked for 1mm toe OUT and was given toe IN.

They were nearer to me than the prev aligners meaning I could take it in on my lunch break.. But knowing what I know now I should have just sent this info to the previous place for them to redo it.

Now i've realised that it's wrong again I've taken the following extracts from RAVE and also from a different forum (here (https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/discovery-2-wheel-alignment.113077/)) so that if anyone else needs theirs aligned they can just print off these and show them to the aligners. I just emailed this to the place that did mine for when I rebook it in.

The guy today told me after aligning it that he could only align one wheel because there is only one track rod to adjust.. ! Hence the second image.

Hopefully will save you some running around and/or cost.

I was too casual and easygoing about this and it's bit me in the ass.



175196175197

[W&KO]

The guy today told me after aligning it that he could only align one wheel because there is only one track rod to adjust..




175196175197

If only the guy had decent training…….

I do agree it’s tough to convince to adjust to toe out….

[Arnoooooooooold]

Well.. I had some issues to say the least. I had to leave it with them over night (they told me it was all done then when I picked it up hadn't changed anything on the readout) and then when I picked it up the day after, these were the results.

Please can someone take a look for me and confirm that this is wrong? I thought it should be -1.0mm overall toe (toe out). Perhaps I just don't understand wheel alignment?

Honestly i'm tired of talking to them so I just took the car off them. I had no idea this would be so difficult.

If someone could be kind enough to tell me the 'correct' numbers I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

175327

[discorevy]

I took it into a different aligner's today, specifically asked for 1mm toe OUT and was given toe IN.

They were nearer to me than the prev aligners meaning I could take it in on my lunch break.. But knowing what I know now I should have just sent this info to the previous place for them to redo it.

Now i've realised that it's wrong again I've taken the following extracts from RAVE and also from a different forum (here (https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/discovery-2-wheel-alignment.113077/)) so that if anyone else needs theirs aligned they can just print off these and show them to the aligners. I just emailed this to the place that did mine for when I rebook it in.

The guy today told me after aligning it that he could only align one wheel because there is only one track rod to adjust.. ! Hence the second image.

Hopefully will save you some running around and/or cost.

I was too casual and easygoing about this and it's bit me in the ass.



175196175197

if you lengthen the rod it will increase toe in ( second image )



Well.. I had some issues to say the least. I had to leave it with them over night (they told me it was all done then when I picked it up hadn't changed anything on the readout) and then when I picked it up the day after, these were the results.

Please can someone take a look for me and confirm that this is wrong? I thought it should be -1.0mm overall toe (toe out). Perhaps I just don't understand wheel alignment?

Honestly i'm tired of talking to them so I just took the car off them. I had no idea this would be so difficult.

If someone could be kind enough to tell me the 'correct' numbers I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

175327

Yes, negative is toe out, the previous alignment was correct

[rick130]

The guy today told me after aligning it that he could only align one wheel because there is only one track rod to adjust.. !

I lost it at this [emoji54][emoji23]

[Tombie]

Bloody hell…. How do they keep their business doing this crap!

Training is abysmal nowadays.

[discorevy]

I lost it at this [emoji54][emoji23]

I'm thinking it surely must've been a misinterpretation where the aligner had said something like " can only do 1 wheelset or 1 axle" .
If that was really the case then O.P. should go back and have a word with boss before an accident occurs

[Tins]

The guy today told me after aligning it that he could only align one wheel because there is only one track rod to adjust.. ! Hence the second image.

And to think he does it for a living!

[Tins]

I'm thinking it surely must've been a misinterpretation where the aligner had said something like " can only do 1 wheelset or 1 axle" .
If that was really the case then O.P. should go back and have a word with boss before an accident occurs

Maybe the "aligner" gets a commission on tyres.....

[discorevy]

Maybe the "aligner" gets a commission on tyres.....

Or maybe , given the context of thinking he can only align one wheel ( the steering wheel ) . when he is asked to do toe out he may decide that he's not gonna take his boots off for no one.[bigwhistle]

[Tins]

Or maybe , given the context of thinking he can only align one wheel ( the steering wheel ) . when he is asked to do toe out he may decide that he's not gonna take his boots off for no one.[bigwhistle]
:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[Arnoooooooooold]

For the record, I took it into Tyrepower Eltham, mentioned everything to the blokes there.

They aligned it perfectly and gave me the car back within 30 mins with an alignment report. Better price as well.

Now for a refund from the previous spot, which was a big chain store tyre/brakes place in the CBD.

I would laugh along with you guys but I didn't find it funny at the time [bigrolf] Thought i was going mad..

[Fattima]

For the record, I took it into Tyrepower Eltham, mentioned everything to the blokes there.

They aligned it perfectly and gave me the car back within 30 mins with an alignment report. Better price as well.

Now for a refund from the previous spot, which was a big chain store tyre/brakes place in the CBD.

I would laugh along with you guys but I didn't find it funny at the time [bigrolf] Thought i was going mad..
Glad they sorted you out.