Waterless coolant

[Robsrod 58]

I spoke to a guy at "Liquidintelligence" today about using waterless coolant in my P38, at $25/ltr its not cheap,but its for life.
Has anybody had any experience with this product, I'm thinking of giving it a go when I replace my whole cooling system next month as a precaution to my Sydney/Broome trip.

Rob

[p38oncoils]

I spoke to a guy at "Liquidintelligence" today about using waterless coolant in my P38, at $25/ltr its not cheap,but its for life.
Has anybody had any experience with this product, I'm thinking of giving it a go when I replace my whole cooling system next month as a precaution to my Sydney/Broome trip.

Rob

If there is a problem with the cooling system now that issue will continue regardless of you using this product. If there is nothing wrong with the cooling system then normal coolant is perfectly adequate for the task.

[Robsrod 58]

I agree, if you have a faulty cooling system you must fix that first. There's nothing wrong with my system, but, it is original and 10ys old and I'm paranoid about slipped liner syndrome. My main reason for considering it, is the fact that it does not produce any pressure in the cooling system ( no steam ), therefore no blown heater O rings etc.

The guy bored me for 20min but made some very valid points.

[Blknight.aus]

its great untill you have a problem somewhere.

[isuzurover]

I agree, if you have a faulty cooling system you must fix that first. There's nothing wrong with my system, but, it is original and 10ys old and I'm paranoid about slipped liner syndrome. My main reason for considering it, is the fact that it does not produce any pressure in the cooling system ( no steam ), therefore no blown heater O rings etc.

The guy bored me for 20min but made some very valid points.

Save your money...

Have a read here:
Liquid Inteliigence 115 Waterless Coolant? (http://performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?67281720-Liquid-Inteliigence-115-Waterless-Coolant&)

Seems to be a mix of propylene glycol and ethylene glycol. Neither cool as well as water.

[clubagreenie]

I put less faith in the nanoparticles in that stuff than performance forums. And thats saying something since they IP banned me for telling them they were wrong.

[Robsrod 58]

Save your money...

Have a read here:
Liquid Inteliigence 115 Waterless Coolant? (http://performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?67281720-Liquid-Inteliigence-115-Waterless-Coolant&)

Seems to be a mix of propylene glycol and ethylene glycol. Neither cool as well as water.
Neough said, back goes the water based coolant. There maybe something to it, but not for me an not now.

Thanks all

[isuzurover]

Neough said, back goes the water based coolant. There maybe something to it, but not for me an not now.

Thanks all


There is "something" to it - in that PG and EG do not boil until high temperatures. So in something like an IC engined plane, you can't just pull over and refill the coolant if it boils, therefore these type of coolants are useful in those aplications.

However if your main interest is preventing and/or mitigating against slipped liners, it would be of no benefit.

[rrturboD]

I was looking at this for my classic car that does not get much use, and internal corrosion is a bigger issue with water and coolant. I am heading towards Evans Waterless Coolant rather than local product. Still expensive (about $19/l), and will still leak where glycol will. I was a little disbelieving of all the Intelligent sales spiel when I rang them up, while Evans were much more forthright re practicalities of their product.

[Hoges]

Aircraft engines are liquid cooled to improve the specific power output, they're operating at air temp. well below ground level ambient temperature and considerably reduced external pressure. Specific heat transfer is not as important but increased boiling point (cf water) is... so concentrated glycol is often used as a coolant. Not optimum solution for ground-based vehicles. Stick with the 50% OAT (aqueous) mix

[benji]

It sounds good, seems like a bit of a novelty though. On a 42 degree day like today I wouldn't like to be traveling knowing there's something with better cooling that's not in my radiator. A 75:25 coolant:water mix will increase temps 10 degrees - so it makes a big difference. If you wanted longer service intervals, you could go the red coolant.

[Craig_Keira]

I'd like to point out that your engine can still cook itself without boiling the coolant - if they BP of the coolant were high enough. Engines are designed to operate within a certain range. Don't quote me but I think it's 75 to 95C. Far outside that, and you're asking for at least reduced performance and excessive wear. I don't think this is the solution you're looking for.

[Hoges]

From personal experience, the AC Delco OAT concentrate (the red stuff) for LSx V8 engines (Holden Dealer spare parts) diluted 50% with demineralised water is great stuff for Rover aluminium V8 engines.

[Robsrod 58]

I'd like to point out that your engine can still cook itself without boiling the coolant - if they BP of the coolant were high enough. Engines are designed to operate within a certain range. Don't quote me but I think it's 75 to 95C. Far outside that, and you're asking for at least reduced performance and excessive wear. I don't think this is the solution you're looking for.
I appreciate that an engine can exceed max op temp without boiling with this stuff in it, what appealed to me was that there was no pressure build up because there's no water to boil, therefore not introducing other problems like blown heater matrix "O" rings or hose which could be more terminal and render the car immovable.
Having said that it was commented that glycol can weep out of the smallest hole, is this even though there is no pressure in the system?

Rob

[p38oncoils]

I appreciate that an engine can exceed max op temp without boiling with this stuff in it, what appealed to me was that there was no pressure build up because there's no water to boil, therefore not introducing other problems like blown heater matrix "O" rings or hose which could be more terminal and render the car immovable.
Having said that it was commented that glycol can weep out of the smallest hole, is this even though there is no pressure in the system?

Rob

Hi Rob, there will be pressure build up with this product the same as will be with any other fluid that expands when it heats. It isn't just steam that pushes coolant out of the cooling system when you remove the pressure cap, it also pressurises because of the expansion of the rubber hoses in the cooling system that takes place when the coolant expands. If you remove the pressure cap off the cooling system when it is fully heated you will still get coolant that is about or over 100 degrees Celsius spraying all over you if you aren't careful. You will burn just as much from coolant at 100 degrees Celsius as you will from a water and coolant mixture at 100 degrees Celsius. The only difference is that the “wonder coolant” has a higher boiling point than most other cooling system additives.

You mention that you're concerned about blowing matrix “o” rings. What happens with cooling system “o” rings is that they loose their elasticity (go hard and brittle) with time and are therefore unable to adjust themselves to expanding and contracting sealing surfaces in the same way they do when they are soft and supple. This is the cause of them leaking and happens slowly and over time and will not render the vehicle immovable.

With blown hoses – the best way to prevent that happening is to replace the old hoses with new ones – I think that you will find that buying a full set of new cooling system hoses from the UK and having them sent to you here in Australia will turn out to be cheaper than buying enough “wonder coolant” to fill the cooling system. When I replaced the hoses in the cooling system of my vehicle they cost around £70.00 delivered to my door in Australia. I ordered them on a Friday and they were delivered to me on the Monday.

[rick130]

From personal experience, the AC Delco OAT concentrate (the red stuff) for LSx V8 engines (Holden Dealer spare parts) diluted 50% with demineralised water is great stuff for Rover aluminium V8 engines.


And should be the exact same stuff as Land Rover OAT coolant (Texaco LongLife, Texaco supply GM and Rover with the coolant, GM call theirs Dexcool, CAT ELC is almost identical, with a small % of I think Nitrate added for wet liners )

[Robsrod 58]

Thanks for that p38oncoils,
In my very first post I indicated that I will be changing pretty much the whole cooling system soon, I already have hoses water, pump and thermostat ( courtesy UK ) radiator coming soon.
Its not that there has been a problem with the system, its just an unknown quantity and 10ys old and I want to minimise avenues of failure, as I also indicated a very big trip is on the horizon. This is what prompted the whole idea and thread, It appear to generated a good discussion though.

Rob

[Diesel Dan]

Well bugger it, I'm going to try it. If it's good enough for Jay Lenno, it's good enough for me. Evans Coolant is non-toxic and lasts a lifetime, it does not corrode like water. less pressure on a cooling system would be a good thing in my opinion (being and ex cat mechanic). I have an old bedford that gets used once in a blue moon and this product would suit that application fine.
I'm going to put it in the wifes disco first and see how it goes, i will report back on it.

[Gerokent]

Pressure in a cooling system is there for a reason, it helps prevent cavitation (at pump and around liners), it helps to purge air pockets and assists "scrubbing" of heat away from surfaces.
Low cooling pressure is not necessarily a good thing.

[Hoges]

Well bugger it, I'm going to try it. If it's good enough for Jay Lenno, it's good enough for me. Evans Coolant is non-toxic and lasts a lifetime, it does not corrode like water. less pressure on a cooling system would be a good thing in my opinion (being and ex cat mechanic). I have an old bedford that gets used once in a blue moon and this product would suit that application fine.
I'm going to put it in the wifes disco first and see how it goes, i will report back on it.

Strewth...you wanna look like Jay Leno?:eek::twisted:

[clubagreenie]

Plus the fluid will boil at a higher temp under pressure.

[Diesel Dan]

Strewth...you wanna look like Jay Leno?:eek::twisted:

No, just want his bank balance:D

[Diesel Dan]

Ok, so just finished the conversion to Evans Waterless Coolant.

I bought 4 x 3.77ltr bottles of coolant and 2 x bottles of pre-treatment fluid.
$460.00 all up.

I drained all the existing coolant out and then hooked up a spit water vaccum cleaner to suck any remaining fluid out.

I added the pre-treatment fluid which feels like brake fluid to touch as it also is hydroscopic. Ran the engine for a few minutes then drained and sucked the pre-treatment fluid out. You can re-use this fluid so I strained it back into its original bottles filtering through a rag.

Filled the system with the Evans coolant, bled the air from the system and then took the landy for a spin. On return I tried the expansion tank cap and true to it's word there is very little preasure in the system.

One thing I have noticed that in the past the top radiator hose has expanded quite dramatically with normal coolant, well not the case now. It's still hot but does not expand.

By no means is this a silver bullet for a crook cooling system, but in my opinion may lead to longer service life due to a huge decrease in system pressure. Time will tell.

Kind Regards

[Keithy P38]

Will be watching for updates! Good work mate!

[Steve223]

will be watching for updates to, please keep us posted how you go

[Diesel Dan]

Time for an update.....

Very, Very impressed with this Evans Coolant.

I have taken to carrying a spare bottle in the boot "just in case".
That would be the only downside.

I preformed a pump flow test and cavitation test just to see how this fluid preforms compared to traditional coolants.
Needless to say it preformed better than expected.
The entire system has no leaks whatsoever and you don't have to do up the hose clamps anywhere near as tight as usual. For a 13 year old Landrover that is unheard of in my opinion.

I am now considering adding this to our motorbikes.

Kind Regards

[FANTOM P38]

Sounds good, be interested in a follow up after running in hotter months after 4wding!
Martin

[85 county]

any one got some actual stats on this waterless stuff?

[Tombie]

Btw, the glycol in Evans IS toxic... Flammable and slippery...

It's banned at Tracks because of these last 2 traits...

It's cooking capability is less than that of conventional water based coolants as well and will show increased temperatures in the head during operation.

[clubagreenie]

Going back to ideal gas laws, it's impossible for it to not increase pressure.

The system is a fixed volume so as temp increases pressure must also increase.

For it to eliminate pressure the system must either alter volume, which could only happen by bleeding pressure OR eliminate temperature fluctuation. Impossible in the application.

[Keithy P38]

Any further updates on how this is going??

[Tombie]

Point is that the same could have been done using pure (non-mixed) glycol coolant - with the same associated limitations...

Including the same associated loss of cooling efficiency.

Considering the whole cooling system was overhauled, and then the product added - the cooling system service fixed the problem...

And the Waterless coolant has gained nothing - but the cooling system is now efficient enough again to handle the reduced thermal load shedding capability of it.

But hey, if it makes you sleep better at night ;)