Ned Kelly being buried today

[Maggot4x4]

Ned Kelly is being buried today near Glenrowan next to his mother. Anyone going to the memorial service?

[ramblingboy42]

where has he been since he died?

[Maggot4x4]

On Display at Melbourne Gaol for the last 10 years, before that in a mass unmaked grave

[sam_d]

He was buried at Pentridge but exhumed last year.

He himself wasn't put on display but his death mask is at the Old Melbourne Gaol.

[incisor]

such is life...

[Landy Smurf]

^I see so many tattoos and car stickers of that.
Is there going to be any media broadcast it?

[Maggot4x4]

^I see so many tattoos and car stickers of that.
Is there going to be any media broadcast it?
I believe so

[akelly]

We know he killed three policemen in cold blood, right? Not trying to start something here, but does this bloke really deserve any attention? I've read plenty about him, and there is a lot to like about him, but in the end he's a mulitple murderer.

Cheers,

Adam

[Landy Smurf]

but he is an australian icon

[85 county]

the country is better with out him, chuck his bones in the compost, maybe some good will come of him after all

[Maggot4x4]

We know he killed three policemen in cold blood, right? Not trying to start something here, but does this bloke really deserve any attention? I've read plenty about him, and there is a lot to like about him, but in the end he's a mulitple murderer.

Cheers,

Adam
Different time different situation, you can't apply todays morals on that time. Apples and Oranges

[akelly]

Different time different situation, you can't apply todays morals on that time. Apples and Oranges

Why not? Killing policemen was illegal then too.

[Maggot4x4]

Why not? Killing policemen was illegal then too.
So was killing miners and the general public but the police didn't mind doing it with no recourse.

[85 county]

Different time different situation, you can't apply todays morals on that time. Apples and Oranges

no he was irish he killed anything he thought was orange

but then i guess your baseing your history on a movie LOL

[akelly]

So was killing miners and the general public but the police didn't mind doing it with no recourse.

I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that because others committed crimes that mutliple murders should be ignored?

[85 county]

So was killing miners and the general public but the police didn't mind doing it with no recourse.

difrent place difrent events. and yes better if the cops had machine guns back then the cops should have killed more of them,

best you know your history and not rely on TV

[Maggot4x4]

difrent place difrent events. and yes better if the cops had machine guns back then the cops should have killed more of them,

best you know your history and not rely on TV
Not seen the movie, nor watched tv on this subject. Just making general comments about the time.

I am not saying he was perfect, Im just saying it was a different place and different time and we can't impose todays morals.

[vnx205]

I wonder how many people have heard of the Clarke Brothers. They killed more policemen in the 1860s than the Kelly gang, but are much less well known.

[85 county]

morals don’t change, murder was and is still murder.

But lets make it black and white and put it in today’s context.

You are in the bush, while engaged with a shovel and a roll of paper I take/ drive off in your Landover, leaving you stranded. It takes you 2 days to walk out and report the theft.

The next day, while I am showing off your landrover to some slapper, i get spotted by a policeman.

Question, should I be arrested, yes or no?

[Maggot4x4]

morals don’t change, murder was and is still murder.

But lets make it black and white and put it in today’s context.

You are in the bush, while engaged with a shovel and a roll of paper I take/ drive off in your Landover, leaving you stranded. It takes you 2 days to walk out and report the theft.

The next day, while I am showing off your landrover to some slapper, i get spotted by a policeman.

Question, should I be arrested, yes or no?
It is not ever black and white.

Thats like saying transportation is a fair punishment for stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family.

[gromit]

Not seen the movie, nor watched tv on this subject. Just making general comments about the time.

I am not saying he was perfect, Im just saying it was a different place and different time and we can't impose todays morals.

If you read up on the Kelly story you'll find that a lot of the police were rogues back then and not highly respected. The policeman that caused a lot of problems for the Kelly family was sacked some time later.
I don't think what Ned Kelly did was right but the police didn't help the situation with the Kelly family.

I agree that you shouldn't impose today's morals and unless you read the whole story you aren't in a position to comment. A film doesn't really tell the whole story and isn't always accurate but the Heath Ledger version is the closest to what happened.


Colin

[101RRS]

Have they found his head yet??

[gromit]

They thought they had a year or two back when they were doing some work at RMIT (next door to Melbourne Gaol).


Here's some interesting info relating to the EK on the cemetery wall.
Rewind (ABC TV): Ned's Head (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/rewind/txt/s1168553.htm)


Colin

[mudmouse]

He was a murdering thief. Stick him in a hole and let's get over it...

Tattoo's, bumper stickers and stupid sayings make a hero not.

I've seen and heard the name 'Milat' being tossed around as some sort of badarse rebel - good grief Charlie Brown.


Matt.

[steane]

We know he killed three policemen in cold blood, right? Not trying to start something here, but does this bloke really deserve any attention? I've read plenty about him, and there is a lot to like about him, but in the end he's a mulitple murderer.

Cheers,

Adam

Would have been better if it was three politicians, but a handful of blokes in uniforms with guns... Murder, self-defense, an accident, survival, persecution...I don't know, I wasn't there. But if I was backed into that corner, in those times, I can't say I'd definitely come out with my hands in the air.

For many Australians he is an enduring symbol of qualities we have lost in modern times. The hard nosed, no BS, stand-up for what is right and what we believe in type of Aussie. That is the romance that surrounds Ned, rightly or wrongly.

We ain't like that now. We are soft and apathetic. It's easier to think of Ned as a dastardly cop killing scoundrel with no right to his legend status than an Aussie with a bit of backbone, prepared to take the fight to his persecutors (which is the legend if not the cold hard facts of the situation).

I'd prefer to see the legend of Ned endure. So RIP Ned ;)

[digger]

but he is an australian icon

on that thinking then martin bryant will be an australian icon in 100 years?

Ned Kelly not such a hero

| October 27, 2010





It is time to stop excusing Ned Kelly, writes CHRISTOPHER BANTICK

Yesterday at 5pm, in 1878, Ned Kelly murdered three policemen at Stringybark Creek. Tomorrow, in 1880, Ned Kelly stood trial for his life in the Supreme Court.
READ MORE•Was Ned Kelly a hero?
•Opinion: Rule's View
•Was Ned Kelly a hero? Click to vote now

•Have Your Say now in the form below

To say Ned Kelly was a murderer is a sure-fire way to light the torch-paper of public opinion. Ned Kelly is, after all, a hero.

But was he? Ask any primary-school child and the story goes that Ned Kelly was game and brave. He represented the downtrodden Irish and he killed three policemen in self defence. Ned is Teflon-coated. Blame does not stick.

Think again.

Ned Kelly was a vindictive colonial thug. The enduring vision of game Ned Kelly in armour at Glenrowan is the stuff of folklore and good for tourism. But if you say that Kelly was a mass murderer at Glenrowan, then he is simply a psychopathic terrorist.

This is not the message that brings the punters into Kelly country. Many towns milk the Kelly legend and do very nicely out of it. The Glenrowan economy depends to a large extent on the Kelly tourists. Kelly is a cash cow.

The punters who come in their bus loads get their fake Kelly memorabilia and stories that are embellished with local flavour. You won't hear that Ned Kelly was a savage killer and a thief. No, Glenrowan owns Ned Kelly; he's a favourite son.

It is not just Glenrowan, either, that does well out of the Kelly story. Mansfield and Benalla, Beechworth and Greta massage their association with the Kelly gang. The re-enactments of court-room dramas, festivals and events celebrate Ned and the boys.

Surely it is time Ned Kelly was given a critical makeover. Let's be frank; brutally honest if you like. Kelly is not a hero, but a cop killer. You won't find this on your Kelly-country tea towels.

The new national curriculum for history will make sure Ned stays well and truly alive. According to the leader of the curriculum draft, University of Melbourne history professor Stuart Macintyre, in Year 9 students will "consider colonial settlements, our convict settlers, our gold rush and our democratic experiments". Ned's in there.

The draft says that in primary schools students will learn:


"The traditions, stories, myths, and legends that connect them with the values, beliefs and the socio-cultural elements of past societies." You can be sure that Ned will stride into the state's classrooms, clanking in his armour.


If the truth be known, we just can't get enough of Ned Kelly. How timely it was that in October 2008, the fateful Kelly month, a sword presented to Sgt Arthur Loftus Maule Steele for the police officer's part in the capture of Ned Kelly was auctioned by Sotherby's.

Then, in June this year, State Attorney-General Rob Hulls appealed to the public to help confirm whether a skull handed in last year was Kelly's.


Tourism organisers at the Old Melbourne Gaol are on a nice little earner as the story is told and told again that this is where Kelly died and spoke the reputed immortal words: "Ah well, I suppose it has come to this! . . such is life!" If you recall, the words "Such is Life" were emblazoned on the six-pack of footballer Ben Cousins.


Then there is the revered Kelly tooth. Yes, one was found, supposedly, and taken from a building site next to the Old Melbourne Gaol in 1920.


Or as Rob Hulls put it: "This could be the key that unlocks the mystery. It shows that the tooth fairy does exist."


While country towns continue to earn big bucks from a criminal, they are actually aiding the legend and deepening the myths, some say lies, about Ned Kelly. It is time for a reality check and a lot more honesty.

•Christopher Bantick is a Melbourne writer who has written extensively on the need to reappraise the Kelly myth. He was formerly head of history at Trinity Grammar School, Melbourne, and participated in the ABC and UK joint documentary, The Last Outlaw.

[bob10]

I have a book, Ned Kelly, the authentic illustrated story, compiled and written by Keith McMenomy, introduced by Manning Clarke. An impressive tome, 34 cm's by 27, with dozens of photos I had never seen before. The difference with this book , from others I have read on the subject? McMenomy doesn't take sides, it is as factual as any writer could get on the subject.To quote Manning Clarke;

" Ned Kelly had a remarkable impact on the history of Australia.In his lifetime he left an impression on the minds of people such as John Monash, a bush boy in Jerilderie who rose to become the Commander-in-Chief of the Australian Imperial Force in WW1, on J B Gribble, the missionary who achieved fame as ' the blackfellow's friend', on Dr Walter Richardson, and on Isaac Isaacs, another bush boy who rose to the office of a High Court Judge and Governor General of the Commonwealth of Australia. Ned Kelly became a legend during his own life, and a contributer to the mythology of the bush- the bush as the cradle of mateship, equality, the emphasis on the masculine virtues of strength, and the belief that the bush life was the cradle of much that was different from other lands, the cradle of the Australian, the cradle of the yearning for the life of the fearless, the free , and the bold.

Because he was elevated by the bush people and the cultural nationalists to such an exalted role - and , yet, paradoxically, was a man who had murdered three policemen, - historians, biographers, poets, playwrights, and film script writers have always had difficulty in sorting out the fact from the legend. They have also found it difficult not to take sides - some portraying Kelly as a mad-dog bushranger, and others seeing him with the eye of pity, as the victim of his harsh enviroment.

The three important contributions by Keith McMenomy are that he has added to our knowledge of the Kelly story, that he has enlarged our understanding by his comprehensive collection of illustrations, and that he has written his account from a standpoint which does not award praise or blame to the human beings caught up in the drama of the Ned Kelly gang. He has burrowed in the sources with success partly because he has that other essential for a history- the eye of pity for all the participants. So his work is both a storehouse of information, and a treasurehouse of the wisdom that comes with knowing that things go hardly with all of us

Manning Clark
May 1964"

I wish I had said that, my take on this.....

09 - Redgum - Poor Ned - YouTube (http://youtu.be/j9L1E0FS_jI)

[bob10]

on that thinking then martin bryant will be an australian icon in 100 years?

Ned Kelly not such a hero



Digger, no thinking person regards Kelly as a hero, a victim of his time, perhaps. Please don't stoop to quoting Bantick, a wannabe, read McMenomy's book, without your policemans hat on, then form YOUR opinion based on fact. McMenomy tells it as it was, and makes a hero of no-one. Bob

[Disco Muppet]

on that thinking then martin bryant will be an australian icon in 100 years?


Ever heard the Chaser boys "Eulogy song" ?
Without going into some of their more cruel verses, one of the bridges is "It's not how they lived that counts, but how we re-write the book. When it comes to truth, it's best to use restraint. It pays to throw away the facts and have a rose coloured view.....When he dies, Martin Bryant will look a saint!"

Note that this is not supposed to be a comment on my view of the chasers, or making out that port arthur was anything funny.

[incisor]

on that thinking then martin bryant will be an australian icon in 100 years?

Ned Kelly not such a hero


yeah yeah and the police of the day were perfect in every way.

bob is on the money.

bryant is infamous already and i don't see how any comparison can be drawn between his actions and that of the kelly family story.

[bob10]

Ned Kelly is being buried today near Glenrowan next to his mother. Anyone going to the memorial service?
Some did, Bob
18 January 2013 Last updated at 06:12 GMT Memorial service held for Australian outlaw Ned Kelly

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/604.jpg Ned Kelly's body was thrown into a mass grave after he was hanged in 1880

Descendants of Ned Kelly have held a memorial service for the Australian outlaw, more than 130 years after he was hanged for murder.
The private service, attended by hundreds of people, took place in Wangaratta, north-east Victoria, ahead of his burial on Sunday.
The commemorations end a wrangle over the remains of the outlaw, who led a gang in Victoria in the 19th Century.
Kelly was hanged at Old Melbourne Jail in 1880 for killing three policemen.
His remains were thrown into a mass grave, then reburied inside Pentridge Prison in Victoria in 1929. The bones were then exhumed in 2009 and identified using DNA testing in 2011. The outlaw's skull remains missing.
The site's developers wanted to keep the remains in a museum or memorial, but Kelly's family wanted the bones returned. The Victoria state government decided in favour of Kelly's relatives last year.
"This is something that has been needed to be done for a long time, so here for us it's nice to see a close to the chapter, so to speak, and right an old wrong," Anthony Griffiths, the great-grandson of Kelly's youngest sister Grace, told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation before the ceremony.
"He (Kelly) especially requested it the day before he was hanged that he... be given to his friends and family so he could be buried properly."
Kelly will be buried in a cemetery in Greta, not far from the site of his gunfight with police in Glenrowan.
Ned Kelly was seen by some as a cold-blooded killer and by others as a folk hero who fought colonial authorities.
The exploits of the outlaw and his gang have been the subject of numerous films and television series.
"Of all Australians, Ned is without doubt one of the most famous, some would say infamous, and therein lies the great divide in society," said Monsignor John White, who led the service in Wangaratta.

[Chucaro]

IMO he was not a hero but he paid his crimes with his life and that should be the end of the story.
There is not need to use his body for studies or for exhibitions.

[robbotd5]

Bringing that psychopathic monster that's locked up in Tasmania into this thread is bad enough... Comparing him with Ned Kelly is just shameful.
Regards
Robbo

[85 county]

It is not ever black and white.

Thats like saying transportation is a fair punishment for stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family.

no its not, dont change the topic

answer the question, YES OR NO

[d@rk51d3]

Have they found his head yet??

Could hang him again if they did.

[bob10]

morals don’t change, murder was and is still murder.

But lets make it black and white and put it in today’s context.

You are in the bush, while engaged with a shovel and a roll of paper I take/ drive off in your Landover, leaving you stranded. It takes you 2 days to walk out and report the theft.

The next day, while I am showing off your landrover to some slapper, i get spotted by a policeman.

Question, should I be arrested, yes or no?
What is your point? Do you really think anyone would say no? How much do you know about life in the time of the Kelly's? You cannot compare apples with lemons. Yes, Kelly was a murderer, but so were sections of the police at the time. Kelly was hanged, and rightfully so, how many of the corrupt police were brought to justice?Do you even care?, Bob

[85 county]

What is your point? Do you really think anyone would say no? How much do you know about life in the time of the Kelly's? You cannot compare apples with lemons. Yes, Kelly was a murderer, but so were sections of the police at the time. Kelly was hanged, and rightfully so, how many of the corrupt police were brought to justice?Do you even care?, Bob

Because Kelly stole the postmans hoarse in the middle of the bush while the postman was taking a dump. It took 2 days for the postman to walk out and inform the police.
On seeing Kelly on the stolen horse he was arrested and jailed.

On his release he blamed the police and victimizing him. And thus since he was Irish ( Scots irish) he blamed the English. and regarded himself above the law.
ADD to that his father was a thief, that’s how he got to Australia. he didn’t reform and continued in his ways being arrested and convicted for cattle theft. Seems like it was the family business, stealing.
Maybe you would be happy with them as your neighbors

[bob10]

Because Kelly stole the postmans hoarse in the middle of the bush while the postman was taking a dump. It took 2 days for the postman to walk out and inform the police.
On seeing Kelly on the stolen horse he was arrested and jailed.

On his release he blamed the police and victimizing him. And thus since he was Irish ( Scots irish) he blamed the English. and regarded himself above the law.
ADD to that his father was a thief, that’s how he got to Australia. he didn’t reform and continued in his ways being arrested and convicted for cattle theft. Seems like it was the family business, stealing.
Maybe you would be happy with them as your neighbors
Yes, john Kelly was arrested and charged with stealing two pigs , from a farmer named Quainy, whilst working as a ' woodranger' on lord Ormondes estate near Kilsheeland.He was given seven years transportation to Van Diemans Land, in 1841. After serving his time, he moved to Victoria, here he met up with James Quinn, and married his daughter, Ellen. `As for the cattle stealing incident, He had a neighbour, Philip Morgan, who was missing a heifer calf, and after seeing hind quarters hanging on a hook at Kelly's house, went to the police & got a warrant. Kelly had a hide with no brand, , charged with cattle stealing, the charge was dropped, because of lack of evidence. Kelly was, however, charged with ' unlawful possession of a hide', it was upheld, and he was fined 25 pound, or 6 months jail. He chose jail, because he didn't have the money. Neds first foray into lawlessness was as a boy, when he was 'cockatoo' and horseholder for the bushranger Harry Power. His father had died, and Ned was under the influence of the Quinns, a wild and lawless lot. From that point, Neds life went down the path , which led to Pentridge. What is less well known is the fact that Ned worked for a while in sawmills, making sleepers for the new railroads making their way thru Victoria, and was mill foreman for a while, at one mill. He also built houses in the Greta district, using skills learnt in the goal quarries & public works at point Gelibrand.However, he claimed he could not live a normal life because he was being persecuted by the Police, every crime in the district was blamed on him. He had form. Yes, they were villians, and certainly not innocent bystanders. Ned was under the influence of a wild & lawless mob, from an early age, after his father died. His end was inevitable, in a way. Who knows what he may have become under better circumstances. Would I have them as neighbours? I suppose at least you'd have a constant supply of beef. Bob

[move over rover]

OWell I have read his history
And the account of his crime is up for speculation and the actual context of his crime is that he was accused of defending his sister against the unwanted harassment of a local coppa who was obsessed with her.
Even tho he was 400 ks away!
A man hunt ensued and at the time of the murders he gave the coppas fair warning not to draw arms. As he was a crack shot, the coppas clearly drew arms leaving ned no choice. Kill or be killed.
All the people that were captured by ned, and that was many, testified that he was one of the most charming gentleman they had ever met. He never hurt any of them.
So it goes against his character that he did it in cold blood.
Further, the reason the police force was forever changed in vic due to him was the fact that evidence was withheld till after his death that could have set him free. And other was fabricated.

I cannot claim to know the truth
But even so there the cop should never have forced him self on his sister.

The reason he is important is because he did not now down to a crooked regime.
I think he was a legend.
He was also a champion boxer
And worked hard cutting timber by hand.
Sad thing is he was doing his best to go straight after a period of running horses with an out law.

Rip Ned Kelly.

Ps ironically an old friends great grandfather sentenced him!

[Carnut1100]

No question that he did the wrong thing on many occaisions as a youngster, and that got him in the sights of the local police and his life was made hard.

The killing of the policemen was not a clear cut murder (although the killing of a double agent by members of the gang certainly was...) as the police were there to kill him, they were leading packhorses with body boards and straps, not saddles and handcuffs....at the time and place, he had a choice, kill or be killed.
He exercised the inalienable right of all humankind, when someone is trying to kill you then you have a right to defend yourself with whatever it takes.

He was no saint, and I don't think he was a hero, but neither was he a monster.
He had a bad start in life and made some poor choices, that eventually put him in a situation that he couldn't back out of and he was along for the ride, for better or worse.
Those who idolise him are idiots, those who demonise him are naive. The truth lies somewhere in between.

[move over rover]

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.