2012 110 recovery points..!!

[dunny1]

Need help, some where in here I read that 2012 fender has no rated recover points, what should I do? / how / where do I need to fit them and what type.

Went to one of my local 4wd shops and he was unsure where to fit then & what type to use.

If any one could post up a photo of what I need to do would be great..

[lowbox]

I added a dixon-bates hitch replacing the tow ball - has a pin and a towball on the rear, the rest of the towing assembly is fine

On the front its a bit more tricky, you need good load transfer to the chassis so a bullbar or a bit of platework is required.

[MC90]

I purched a set of front recovery points from Richard Nicholls (0439 718 555) of Adventure Offroad Training in Perth. I've taken a couple of photos of the recovery points and saved them in the AULRO Members Gallery.
They were $150 a pair from memory and are 10mm steel and are powder coated. The lower hole uses the existing towing eye bolt and the upper two bolts require one side of the chassis rail to be drilled. You need to take off the bumper (and grille) to get to the nuts on the inside of the chassis rail. A couple of shims are also used at the upper bolts as the chassis rail steps in 3-4mm from the lower bolt at the hi-lift jacking point.
Hope this helps.

[alien]

Need help, some where in here I read that 2012 fender has no rated recover points, what should I do? / how / where do I need to fit them and what type.

Went to one of my local 4wd shops and he was unsure where to fit then & what type to use.

If any one could post up a photo of what I need to do would be great..
It'll be good to see what comes out of this thread.
It's one of the many thing we'll talk about Sunday week:)

[dunny1]

Sounds great Alien. Looking forward to Sunday.

[dunny1]

Thanks MC90, found your photo.

Explans every thing, just sat under the front of mine with my iPad. All clear.

[KarlB]

Use standard towbar at the back and fit JATE rings to the front (assuming you dont have a bullbar or winchbar already.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[dawsey]

anyone seen or used these .. apparently they go over a defender bumper and use the same holes that the bumper uses to bolt to the chassis..

[flagg]

anyone seen or used these .. apparently they go over a defender bumper and use the same holes that the bumper uses to bolt to the chassis..

Dont think they would pass muster in NSW with the protrusion laws...

[Jondavball]

Thanks also to all from me for your suggestions below.

Just did a 4wd course this weekend with Vic Widman and his team. We were very happy with how the Defender (2012 110) performed except for the fact that I was reminded constantly of a total lack of ability to be recovered from the front.

I will now make getting that sorted as a priority.

[Loubrey]

Thanks also to all from me for your suggestions below.

Just did a 4wd course this weekend with Vic Widman and his team. We were very happy with how the Defender (2012 110) performed except for the fact that I was reminded constantly of a total lack of ability to be recovered from the front.

I will now make getting that sorted as a priority.

You should always have suitable recovery points, but as with insurance there is a 85% (wildly made up statistic!) chance you'll never need it. It is a Defender after all!:D

I have used mine once as an achor for a tent guideline...:D

Cheers,

Lou

[Bavo]

My 110 came new with 4 big steel eyelets bolted to the chassis. Aren't they for towing/recovery?

[BilboBoggles]

My 110 came new with 4 big steel eyelets bolted to the chassis. Aren't they for towing/recovery?

No Definitely not - Those are tie down points for securing the vehicle during transport. They must not be used for recovery - they will bend and break and cause someone to die.

Jate rings used to be the preferred method for adding rated recovery, they replaced those tie down points, with a D shackle like device.

[Leroy_Riding]

My 110 came new with 4 big steel eyelets bolted to the chassis. Aren't they for towing/recovery?

take one of them off, throw it as hard as you can at a window or an old car. . .

multiply the damage by 10 and then imagine that hitting someone. . . do not use theese for recovery if you can avoid it, I have winched my car out using them once and after it the looked like they were about to snap off, they have since been removed so the temptation to use them is no longer there.

[Samblers]

Bull bar was mentioned previously... I have an ARB bullbar at the front and towbar at the rear - does this effectively mean that I now have front and rear recovery points covered?

[KarlB]

Bull bar was mentioned previously... I have an ARB bullbar at the front and towbar at the rear - does this effectively mean that I now have front and rear recovery points covered?

Only if the bullbar has built in recover points. Not all bullbars do.

[alien]

Bull bar was mentioned previously... I have an ARB bullbar at the front and towbar at the rear - does this effectively mean that I now have front and rear recovery points covered?


Only if the bullbar has built in recover points. Not all bullbars do.
You may find this thread interesting reading...http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/167005-arb-bar-horses-mouth.html

[dunny1]

Im looking into getting some thing similar to what MC90 is talking about (refer to his photo) would standard 10mm steel be suitable or should it be hardend steel. should have a quote through today to have some Laser cut.

[KarlB]

Similar recovery points to that installed by MC90 have been discussed before (see http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/117980-puma-recovery-points.html, for example). The load will initially be taken by the small bolt at the bottom. If it fails then the others will then be subject to a very large load emanating from the 'leverage' that is a consequence of the load not being applied inline with the bolts. I would not touch them with a barge poll without advice from a mechanical engineer. The loads that can be applied in snatch recovery can be VERY large. It is also worth remembering that the chassis is made of mild steel. "Ratings" of recover attachments is somewhat meaningless. What is important is the rating of the "attached attachment".

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[dunny1]

Thanks KarlB, didn't think of that.

If i start with a similar plate but replace the lower bolt with 2 high tensile bolts, would this help to spred the load.

[KarlB]

Thanks KarlB, didn't think of that.

If i start with a similar plate but replace the lower bolt with 2 high tensile bolts, would this help to spred the load.

Not a simple question and I am not a mechanical engineer but some things to consider: If the bottom bolt is 'large' enough then the load on the bottom of the bracket causes a rotation (of the bracket) around that bolt. You still have a leverage situation increasing the effective load. You also then have force applied to the bottom of the chassis towards the front and just above, a force towards the back. I suspect that this is not a good thing. Also need to be mindful of the mild steel chassis issue and if there are not a tubes welded tubes across the chassis (where the holes go) to strengthen it, then the load is taken largely on the outside of the chassis box section. The chassis is probably the weakest part of the recovery assembly. As I said earlier, one for an engineer. That said, snatch recovery should be considered the last resort and one you should use only when other recovery methods have failed. Snatching can readily put loads of tens of tonnes on recovery points. Always use a bridle to spread the load across both chassis rails.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[Rick Fischer]

No Definitely not - Those are tie down points for securing the vehicle during transport. They must not be used for recovery - they will bend and break and cause someone to die.

Jate rings used to be the preferred method for adding rated recovery, they replaced those tie down points, with a D shackle like device.

Jate Rings on 09MY - only modification was to alloy gravel tray. Should all be same same for subsequent models.

Cheers

RF

[Samblers]

Are these for the front only, or front and back?

[Rick Fischer]

Are these for the front only, or front and back?

Don't know if anyone has then fitted to the rear?????

If I need a rear pull would use the inside of the Hayman Reece with the pin through the strap loop. Having said that, in 40 odd years I've only ever needed to be pulled out backwards once, and that was done with a winch.

RF

[KarlB]

Are these for the front only, or front and back?
JATE rings will fit front and rear on a 110, but are problematic on the rear of a Def90.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[Samblers]

I was crawling under the front of the defender, with this thread in mind and looking at jate ring installation points ready to make a purchase...

Theres two horizontal holes in the ARB bullbar, low down, in a total of about 20mm of plate thickness - SURELY these are meant for a couple of bow shackles to be used for recovery? 20mm thick.

Also the bullbar itself bolts onto the exact holes where the jate rings would be installed, so I cant see how jate rings are required???

Top centre hole in this pic is the one i'm talking about.

Maybe just a check that the bullbar bolts are of grade 8.8 or higher (just replace em maybe?)?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/103.jpg

[Samblers]

Just for clarity - my last post in reference to this post...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/167005-arb-bar-horses-mouth.html
(http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/167005-arb-bar-horses-mouth.html)

... in which the poster asks the ARB man if his Discovery bullbar can be used as a recovery point, to which the answer is no :(

[gng1]

Silly question, but where do folk buy JATE rings?

[KarlB]

Silly question, but where do folk buy JATE rings?

Cheapest way would be to mail order them from the UK but there are probably some Australian suppliers. You should, theoretically, be able to order them from your local Land Rover dealer. The import information you need is part number. The standard JATE ring Part No. is RRC3237 and the slightly wider version is ZXC9435. Google search the part numbers and you will find info about them and where to purchase. You will need HT bolts and Nylock nuts and spacing washers. Bolts are about 130 mm long, 10 mm dia. You may be able to buy as a kit (P/N RRC3237KIT). Also, be mindful that here are a range of copies of varying quality. Originals are forged. Copies are usually welded though there are forged copies around. The part numbers quoted are for genuine JATE rings as fitted to UK military vehicles.

Cheers
KarlB
:)
PS Try Dingocroft: http://www.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Ropes_and_shackles.html

[dunny1]

This is what i'm proposing to get made, currently surching my area for an engineer to have a look.
Here is a pic of a template, I cut this out so the engineer would understand what I'm wanting. The shape / steel grade may change

[Samblers]

So no one is using their bullbar as a recovery point?

[drzzt]

I've got the arb bar and have used it a couple times. Fairly easy snatching mind you, but still put on some pressure. It's newish and has the high lift jack/recover points.

[Samblers]

do you have a picture of the location you used?

[dunny1]

Just had a quick chat with an automotive engineer, looked at what i proposed didn't say a thing and went on to say that he would replace the front standard bar with a box section and creat a central point built into the new bar. oh well food for thought. Jate rings are looking better and better.

[Loubrey]

I have shared the lower mounting flange (8mm steel) of the bullbar to mount two standard high tensile recovery hooks, so in practice attached to the bullbar. They are as close to inline with the chassis as possible and they are angled inwards by around 10 degrees, both due to available steel cover and the intent to as far as possible split the load.

I've recovered a couple of vehicles backwards using the hooks and they work fine. Where possible I try and use a dyneema bridle to spread the load as well.

Obviously high tensile fasteners on all points.

Cheers,

Lou

[goingbush]

what about this idea, works for me,
Courtesy PO & Ivan at Wodonga

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/46.jpg

normally if you recovered from ring ontop of bullbar it would twist your bar ,
but underside are some engineered brackets that go back to the chassis.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/47.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/48.jpg

[Samblers]

Just had another crawl under the defender.

Annoyingly, the wider jate rings (part ZXC9435) I see quoted dimensions of 95.5mm to 97mm between the internal faces.

I measure 98-100mm required with steering guard and my ARB bullbar fitted using the same bolt hole :thumbsdown:

Anyone else fitted jate rings and a bullbar/steering guard?

[KarlB]

Just had another crawl under the defender.

Annoyingly, the wider jate rings (part ZXC9435) I see quoted dimensions of 95.5mm to 97mm between the internal faces.

I measure 98-100mm required with steering guard and my ARB bullbar fitted using the same bolt hole :thumbsdown:

Anyone else fitted jate rings and a bullbar/steering guard?

Some discussion here:
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic12399.html?view=previous (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic12399.html?view=previous)
Cheers
KarlB
:)

[n plus one]

what about this idea, works for me,
Courtesy PO & Ivan at Wodonga

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/46.jpg

normally if you recovered from ring ontop of bullbar it would twist your bar ,
but underside are some engineered brackets that go back to the chassis.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/47.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/48.jpg

I did something similar to this on my previous Defender - worked well.

On my current Defender (which was fitted with the same bar pictured above) I just used longer lower chassis mounting bolts and fitted a 10,000lb forged recovery hook on the outside of the bar's chassis mounting plate. It makes the recovery points pretty unobtrusive with the added benefit of them also providing some lift as part of a recovery (due to their relatively low mounting position).

Unfortunately I can't help with pics as I've just removed the bar to fit a tubular winch style bar :twisted:

[series2110]

I have a tdi300 110 and fitted disco recovery hooks to the underside of the chassis where the bull bar bolts on
all standard parts and bolts to both sides of the chassis rail
have done several substantial recoveries with no issues

Peter

[patclan]

I bought a steering guard with recovery points from APT, Defender steering guard (AF1020) (http://aptfabrication.com.au/defender/product/6-defender-steering-guard-af1020)

They advertise on here up the top, great service and looks the biz, and has taken a couple of knocks, it has build in recovery points and bolted straight up.

Cheers Pat

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/420.jpg

[Samblers]

That looks the business Pat

Genuine jate rings are GBP45 each - GBP90 for two, plus postage - maybe AUD160 all up :eek:

Another 100 bucks and you've got a steering guard... attractive.

Does it fit using existing holes? Fit with bullbar?

[Loubrey]

Pat,

That guard looks like it will do the job!

I might need to replace mine after the last trip to the Perth Hills where my anti-stall decided we need to go a bit faster accross the rock steps...:eek:

Cheers,

Lou

[Jbmoz]

I bought a steering guard with recovery points from APT, Defender steering guard (AF1020) (http://aptfabrication.com.au/defender/product/6-defender-steering-guard-af1020)

They advertise on here up the top, great service and looks the biz, and has taken a couple of knocks, it has build in recovery points and bolted straight up.

Cheers Pat

http://aptfabrication.com.au/media/com_hikashop/upload/defender-steering-guard.jpg

Pat,

Do you know if this would fit onto a defender with one of the landrover bull bars fitted?

I just had a bull bar put on and they removed my jate rings in the process as they don't fit anymore. What's worse is the "landrover" bullbar does not come with recovery points.the bullbat is an arb lookalike but with outer the shackle points.

So now I have none and am looking for a quick solution.

Thanks,

Brad

[GlennWA]

Just had another crawl under the defender.

Annoyingly, the wider jate rings (part ZXC9435) I see quoted dimensions of 95.5mm to 97mm between the internal faces.

I measure 98-100mm required with steering guard and my ARB bullbar fitted using the same bolt hole :thumbsdown:

Anyone else fitted jate rings and a bullbar/steering guard?

I managed to get some 'widened' JATE rings over the steering guard and ARB bar. Took about 3 hours and lots of swearing as the forged JATE rings are very springy and need to be opened up a little while lining up all the components.

Won't attempt it again in a hurry but it is possible.

In my engineering experience i wouldn't use the ARB for snatch recovery. In fact from a pure engineering and safety perspective I wouldn't use a snatch except for something very minor - such as popping the rear wheels over a sand hill provided the fronts have made it. No requirement for the big run ups seen on videos - get a shovel and have a coffee :thumbup:

Cheers Glenn

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app

[patclan]

Pat,

Do you know if this would fit onto a defender with one of the landrover bull bars fitted?

I just had a bull bar put on and they removed my jate rings in the process as they don't fit anymore. What's worse is the "landrover" bullbar does not come with recovery points.the bullbat is an arb lookalike but with outer the shackle points.

So now I have none and am looking for a quick solution.

Thanks,

Brad

Hi Brad, Just noticed this post, when I spoke to them about it fitting with a TJM bar they said it should be no problem as they designed it to fit with any bar, but a quick call to them would clarify it they are very helpful.

thanks
Pat

[Samblers]

I managed to get some 'widened' JATE rings over the steering guard and ARB bar. Took about 3 hours and lots of swearing as the forged JATE rings are very springy and need to be opened up a little while lining up all the components.

Won't attempt it again in a hurry but it is possible.

This is what i ended up doing, including the swearing bit :)

[dobbo]

Aren't Jate rings for lifting not recoveries?

[MLD]

Something to consider, steering guards like posted below have a tendency to bind on 2" lifted trucks (technically 2" extra droop). Brand of guard and shock used will be the deciding factor. I had a 35mm lift and there was mm of clearance to my steering guard at full droop. After i went to long travel shocks i had to remove the steering guard.

As for the engineering strength of an incorporated steering guard to snatch off. I'd be weary. That said there is no off the shelf solution. Safe snatching demands over engineering for everyone's sake.

If memory serves me correct there is no crush tube in the section of chassis through which the jate bolt passes. Thus if you go jate rings you might need to put in a bit of tube to prevent crushing the chassis. If i'm wrong then i've caused you to think about an important part of the structural integrity of the mounting point.

MLD

[Samblers]

I see no reason why the chassis would crush with jate rings - the load is taken by the mounting bolts in shear.

I liked the look of the steering guard under consideration but the side plates are 8mm or 10mm plate (cant recall which), and this was not enough for me for recovery points. Fabricated recovery points are more like 20mm.

I fitted jate rings - the forged LR ones.