Impartial Advice required - carb issues

[StuRR80]

The Rangie (1981 3.5ltr twin Stromberg with LPG) broke down the other week with fuel pouring from the DS carb. The mechanics called back last week to let me know the news. Other than the LPG tank being out of date and needing re-testing $450-550, the carbs require a full rebuild which will cost approx $1000......:o

A month or so ago I bought an 3.9 EFI 14CUX kit so that I could convert at some point which might open up the area for getting servicing etc. done around the place.

I also have a Holly (don't know what type) sitting on spares evhile at home.

The vehicle is structurally sound (for a 30 year old vehicle), i.e. no rust (that I know of anyway) but it does need a bit of work to get it a bit more "comfortable", doors seals, hinges, interior work, etc. The LT95 will need some work in the next couple of years, if not sooner and the engine has low compression in at least one cylinder. So there's a bit more money to be spent.

It is my daily driver - approx. 130kms per day, so I spend some time in it, it needs to be reliable and I need to get it back on the road ASAP. I'll admit am attached to this vehicle even though it's not the most comfortable to drive (think I'm getting even more deaf!!) but even this cost has rattled me and causing me to consider my options. I don't want to get rid of it - I've spent far too much to sell if for a grand, but I really don't see pouring $1000 into carbs is spending the money in the right area. I'd prefer to spend it on making the car "better", i.e. installing the EFI, sourcing other carbs, replacing the whole motor, getting another vehicle but that just brings other areas of doubt, e.g. installation problems, existing unknown issues, etc.

Money is currently an issue for us, so the question is, for that sort of money, what real options do I have? I'm hoping some of you might have been in similar predicament, so I'd be interested in hearing the outcomes too.

Thanks :)

Stu

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Stu

I converted my '85 RRc from carbs to EFI and haven't looked back.

The mixer system for the LPG is easier, but you need the complete system including ECU for the conversion. You will also find that you need to replace the fuel tank with a full flow submerged pump type. You may also need to change your dissy for an electronic advance model.

The 3.9 chip will need to be re-mapped for the 3.5 and LPG - I use a Motec M48 ECU which is programmable from my laptop on the move and has options for two maps with automatic change over.

With the 14CUX you will need a compromise timing for petrol/LPG or an add-on timing advance module to switch between fuels.

[101RRS]

I think you need to get alternative pricing for both the tank testing and carb rebuild.

The tank in my 101 cost $180 a few years back and the carb kits are relatively cheap and can be installed your self as long as you note needle settings etc when pulling apart. The wear bits are the diaphram and when on gas the needles wear due lack of lubrication. With a bit of reading ("google" is your friend) you could do the work yourself to get it running and then send it in for a proper tune to finalise adjustments - alternatively paying someone should be far less than $1000.

Garry

[d@rk51d3]

Yep, rebuild kits are fairly cheap, and can be found on ebay.

I had mine done in Adelaide a few years ago, and set me back less than $400.

Needles are the hardest bit to find.

[Rick Fischer]

................or you could try and find an Edlebrock manifold and use the Holly with appropriate jets. Re jetting is reasonably easy these days on a dyno, with an oxy sensor up its bum. Two barrel Holy is OK, 4 is really good. Set economy on the first two and "go to orbit" when the other two kick in :)

Carbys fulfill the KISS principle :)

RF

[Blknight.aus]

CD175's as per OEM, rebuild kits are $75ish from MR and take me about 4 hours to get fitted and running.

[mike 90 RR]

T
LPG tank $450-550,
carbs approx $1000


Forget the Holly


Same as garrycol suggestion ... Just Fleebay a carb kit and do it yourself .... or take Dave's advise


alternatively


Either install the 14CUX kit or go Lotz-A-Landies path

[justinc]

goodness me, i wish i could get away with 1k for carb overhauls :o:o

as dave says, they are an easy and simple carb to rebuild, and imo the best carb for a 3.5.


jc

[StuRR80]

Thanks for all your advice guys :) I'll give them a buzz in the morning to see if something got lost in translation between them saying $1000, me dropping the phone and then being stunned and hearing blah, blah, blah....!!! If there's anything more to it, then I'll let you know.

Re the EFI, they said 10-12 hours roughly but would need an auto elec to plumb in the harness and a new cam if I had everything else but they'd rather not do it, is the impression I got. How different are the cams? Rather, I'm assuming or can it be mapped around?

[Blknight.aus]

if its not sorted you can slowly get by by bypassing the fuel lines on the leaking carb and running on one.

you get the kits and If I can make the time I'll teach you how to do your carbs.

[StuRR80]

Thanks Dave. That'd be great! If there's time, maybe we could sort that alternator too? It didn't work with the squirt & tap.

Do you know if the kits come with needles, etc. too?

[mike 90 RR]

and a new cam

Correct ....

[loanrangie]

If you are running lpg most of the time then the holley or a 2brl strommy off holden V8 would be better than the twins, yes the twins are good but crap on gas. I put a 350 holley on my old 81 rangie with an impco 300 gas mixer and it went great and even got 22mpg on petrol.

[Blknight.aus]

Thanks Dave. That'd be great! If there's time, maybe we could sort that alternator too? It didn't work with the squirt & tap.

Do you know if the kits come with needles, etc. too?

from memory yes, best to ring MR and ask them about whats in the kit.

I gave my last kits away along with the..... hold on I might just happen to have a spare pair of carbies on the spare donk I havent trashed yet and I know they were working, you're welcome to come help yourself to them if you want them.

[StuRR80]

Finally got the rangie back from the mechanics! :angel: $400 just to get it out the door. A bit of work involved in sealing them apparently so I could get it home. Should have just forked out the whole $1000 - if I'd known!

Anyway, Dave, those carbs you offered, what are they like, etc.? Or re the kits, how do I know what needles I need to get? And what's your availability over the next week or so?!!! Maybe it's just get the carbs and get the thing going again and then rebuild the others?? Feel free to PM me.

From the EFI stuff I bought, I have the dizzy, etc. so it might be worth getting that in too? Not sure hw to do this and set the timing though. is it difficult with gas?

[Blknight.aus]

Carbs are gone as the engine is gone...

dizzy swap outs not too hard, timing to run on carbies and gas is a bit of a pain as you wont get the best out of either.

If the mechanics were naffing around sealing up the carbs and they didnt bother to just install a carby kit Id want to know why...

I'm a little concerned as to what I might find in there.

I'm busy but I can probably spare some time for a look see, and might be able to squeeze you in saturday arvo.

[StuRR80]

Thanks Dave. :)

The instructions to the mechanics was "sort it out to get me home because I can't afford to pay that much!". I believe they put in new needle seals and bowl seals. At least that's what they told me.

99% of my driving is on gas. Bee Utey has previously suggested running on premium unleaded & adjusting timing to suit gas. Can't remember setting but will dig it out.

Thanks
Stu

[StuRR80]

So, basically the advice I have received is that the carbs do require a complete rebuild. Pretty much everything is worn. It also looks as thought they get quite hot when run on gas due to no petrol cooling them? Facings would probably need machining too.

So rather than spend money on rebuilding them to have them fail at some point again, what's the beat alternative? Holley, other? What model, etc.

[Blknight.aus]

Diesel it :P

[bee utey]

So, basically the advice I have received is that the carbs do require a complete rebuild. Pretty much everything is worn. It also looks as thought they get quite hot when run on gas due to no petrol cooling them? Facings would probably need machining too.

So rather than spend money on rebuilding them to have them fail at some point again, what's the beat alternative? Holley, other? What model, etc.
Nooooo, not the Holley! Unless you rigorously maintain it (the same as maintaining the CD's) it will leak all over your manifold and set the engine on fire. Seen THAT often enough. Just find a couple of stocky second hand carbs, fix them up and keep an eye on them.

[StuRR80]

What about a set of SU's? How do they handle gas? I assume I'd need new gas rings too (not sure of the right word)?

[loanrangie]

What about a set of SU's? How do they handle gas? I assume I'd need new gas rings too (not sure of the right word)?

They should handle gas ok and the rings will fit as the manifold is the same.