TDV6 High Pressure Fuel Pump

[John58]

I've been having intermittent fuel-related problems for the last 4000-odd kms. There are no symptoms as such - just a "Dong" and the car goes into limp-home mode. Turn off, wait a minute, re-start and away we go again...for maybe 200 metres or 2000 kms.:mad: Initially I suspect it was a tank of contaminated diesel I picked up down in Victoria after their recent fuel shortage. I took it to the nearest dealer who replaced the fuel filter (which was about 30% blocked) and everything seemed fine....for a while! After 2500 kms it happened again! This time I decided to take the risk of driving all the way back from Vic (with the van in tow) to Brisbane so I could take it to my usual mechanic (not a dealer). The car performed faultlessly the whole way! I've just had my mech go over it and he found two things -

1. Faulty oil temperature sensor in the sump indicating the oil temp was -3degC;
2. Fuel rail pressure fault - low fuel pressure at 3000rpm.

The faulty oil temp sensor may or may not have had anything to do with it, but he says the low fuel pressure means a faulty high pressure fuel pump - and it's apparently very expensive (and difficult) to replace. Does anyone know approx how expensive?:eek:

Another point is that there was a related recall a couple of years ago (recall #P008) in which the h.p. fuel pump was apparently replaced with a newer design - the old ones had front bearings which were failing. I had this recall done just under 3 years ago. Does anyone know if such recall work is warranted, and if so, for how long?

Cheers
John

[lt8x7]

I had the same symptoms last October on my D3.

The diagnosis was the same - the high pressure fuel pump.

I have an extended warranty which covered the job. The price was about $1800 from memory.

[John58]

I have an extended warranty which covered the job.

Hmmmm.....I thought about an extended warranty when the original one ran out, but decided against it:censored:

[jonesy63]

Another point is that there was a related recall a couple of years ago (recall #P008) in which the h.p. fuel pump was apparently replaced with a newer design - the old ones had front bearings which were failing. I had this recall done just under 3 years ago. Does anyone know if such recall work is warranted, and if so, for how long?

John - there was a later recall as well - P021, which replaced the P008 HPFP. I suggest you ask LR why vehicle wasn't done!

Here is the link: Land Rover (http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/997270)

Cheers,
Rob

[jonesy63]

One more thing.. when the HPFP goes, it can also damage the injectors. :o

Good luck!

[101RRS]

Is that low pressure fault code a one off or does it stay on? If a one off I would not worry about it but if it continually comes back then you have an issue.

Garry

[John58]

I think I've got a problem....

[CaverD3]

D a saerch on here and DISCO3.CO.UK - Index (http://www.disco3.co.uk). See if your Vin is in the recall fro the faulty repalcement pump.
If it is hit LR for new pump and injectors.

[BigJon]

When I used to work at a dealers we replaced one under warranty and my recollection was that the price of the pump was quite reasonable.

[jazzopuk]

Just had a Miriad of errors come up. Engine system fault, suspension lowered, transmission fault, limited gears available, park brake fault, HD fault system not available. Car then goes into limp mode with a couple of Amber leaves lights. Took their car to specialist in Geelong, and told it is caused by a HP Fuel pump issue... as there was low fuel pressure on the diagnostic and want $3500 to repair. Any thoughts?

[LRD414]

Any thoughts?
Could also be a blocked fuel filter or low pressure fuel pump issue, which is in the fuel tank. Both these options are cheaper than a HPFP replacement so are worth investigation. Interrogation of fault codes is the key.

This thread is worth reading:
D4 3.0 P0087 Fault (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/239114-d4-3-0-p0087-fault.html)

This second thread didn't have a final conclusion unfortunately but may help. See also the linked Disco3 threads.
Low Pressure Fuel Pump replacement options (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/234171-low-pressure-fuel-pump-replacement-options.html)

Cheers,
Scott

[loanrangie]

I'd be checking the battery first with all those faults.

[NomadicD3]

Hey guys,
Interesting timing. I was just in Perth last week chatting to one of the best Discovery 3/4 mechanics I have ever met and he was in the process of changing his 5th high pressure fuel pump in a month on a discovery 3 or 4 TDV6 and his supplier has delivered 9 high pressure pumps in 6 weeks throughout perth. He's convinced that there has been a bad batch of fuel in Perth recently. Unfortunately the end result usually means a new filter, low pressure and high pressure pumps for a total bill around $4500.00. he thinks it's unlikely {but not impossible} for this to cause damage to the injectors.
Take care where you fill up guys and good luck to those already affected[bigsad]

[chw]

I've been having intermittent fuel-related problems for the last 4000-odd kms. There are no symptoms as such - just a "Dong" and the car goes into limp-home mode. Turn off, wait a minute, re-start and away we go again...for maybe 200 metres or 2000 kms.:mad: Initially I suspect it was a tank of contaminated diesel I picked up down in Victoria after their recent fuel shortage. I took it to the nearest dealer who replaced the fuel filter (which was about 30% blocked) and everything seemed fine....for a while! After 2500 kms it happened again!



Hi John,

We had a similar problem when travelling from Perth to Alice Springs via the Great Central Road in August this year. Travelling up to Empress Spring, two warnings flashed up on the dash - Gearbox Fault followed immediately by Reduced Engine performance.


U2023 - Gearbox - control module network signal calibration data
P0087 - Engine Management - Fuel rail/system pressure - too low

Like yours this was an intermittent fault and we couldn't replicate the conditions that 'made it occur' and like yours, it was reset by turning the engine on and off, however the last straw was when the issue reoccurred 10 times in the 200km between Erldunda and Alice Springs - too much to ignore.

A call to PCB Landrover Independent Specialists in Adelaide pointed the finger at fuel issues - (blocked fuel filter confirmed and replaced by Sutton Motors in Alice Springs), Low Pressure Fuel Pump (flow tested OK by Sutton Motors), dirty fuel drained from tank by Sutton Motors leaving the HPFP as a possibility but unable to be replaced because of Sutton's work schedules in the week following. In going as far as they did I'd have to say Sutton Motors were very helpful in the process. However like yours, addressing the lower cost issues appeared to solve the issue in all the road testing conducted by Sutton Motors and ourselves, only to have them reappear approx 250km later as we headed south. The D4 and Camper Trailer were trucked back to Adelaide and the two of us flown home courtesy of a RAA Platinum membership - brilliant service by RAA.

Further assessment by PCB at home (flow rates for the LPFP still OK, new fuel filter) saw the HPFP and associated drive belts replaced in early Oct ($2300 HPFP and drive belt, plus 6.5 hours labour). We've since driven approx 5000km, including a trip to the east coast and back to Adelaide via the Vic High Country and Otway Ranges, and the faults have not reoccurred. Confidence is returning.

Notwithstanding the Gearbox Fault warning, we never had any issues with the gearbox. It seems this warning was possibly a transferred fault triggered as a result of the ECU registering the low fuel rail pressure.

Fuel Injectors seem to be unaffected.

Hope this helps
Craig

1980 S1 V8 Wagon - gone
1985 V8 110 Wagon - gone
1998 300Tdi Disco1 - gone
2003 Td5 Disco 2a - gone
2012 TDV6 Disco 4 - 2.7 TDV6, ARB Bar, Kaymar rear bar with tyre carrier, Long Ranger Tank, Mitch Hitch, 17" CSA rims, GME UHF, Duel batteries, Cargo barrier, Rhino tradesman roof-rack

[jazzopuk]

Well, I have had the car returned to me, while in the garage they have replaced the suspension compressor as it was lazy. This has been on its way out for some time. Last time I drove the car, I had 3 incidences of limp mode in 10km, the car has been reprogrammed to accomodate the upgraded compressor, and all fault codes wiped. I will now proceed to use the car as my daily drive. I drove it 30km today no issues. The garage told me they replace the fuel filter every 40,000km so it’s not far of due. Done 30,000 since last change.

[jazzopuk]

Sorry forgot to say, I have not replaced the HPFP

[Lukeis]

Jazz I have the same issue which has been going for 6 months or so now, very very intermittent but just as I start to get comfortable again and assume it’s fixed itself.. dong, lights up ‘restricted performance’ low fuel rail pressure.

I live in Sydney and so far have been extremely lucky that I haven’t had this issue in peak hour crossing the harbour bridge because I can’t get more than 40km/hr once it happens until I turn the car off.

No mechanic can tell me what the issue is definitively so when it gets to the point of unbareable I will have to throw money at it like Craig. Not sure where I will start (high or low pressure pump) but very keen to hear how you go. Sadly you may not know if it’s fixed or broken for another 2000km though

[chw]

No mechanic can tell me what the issue is definitively so when it gets to the point of unbareable I will have to throw money at it like Craig. Not sure where I will start (high or low pressure pump) but very keen to hear how you go. Sadly you may not know if it’s fixed or broken for another 2000km though

Hi Luke,
sorry to hear that the issues are still occurring, albeit it seems still intermittently. It is possible to narrow down the issues to the HPFP or LPFPs by testing both the fuel flow and current draw of the LPFP. This should be able to be done cheaply and quickly by your service agent. There's a good site on testing the current draw of the LPFP on the Disco3 website:

http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic130062.html?highlight=Low+pressure+fuel+pump

Assuming that both fuel flow and current draw are within spec and the LPFP doesn't need changing ... sorry but from my experiences it looks like the HPFP, or one of the two inbuilt sensors, might be on the way out.

From what I've been told, if it is one of the sensors that are failing/have failed, giving the very intermittent faults you're experiencing, both sensors are inbuilt to the HPFP and can only be replaced as part of the whole pump.

Good luck

Craig

1980 S1 V8 Wagon - gone
1985 V8 110 Wagon - gone
1998 300Tdi Disco1 - gone
2003 Td5 Disco 2a - gone
2012 TDV6 Disco 4 - 2.7 TDV6, ARB Bar, Kaymar rear bar with tyre carrier, Long Ranger Tank, Mitch Hitch, 17" CSA rims, GME UHF, Duel batteries, Cargo barrier, Rhino tradesman roof-rack

[jazzopuk]

Day 2 so far so good

[jazzopuk]

Probably grasping at straws but hoping error message was caused by suspension compressor. Surely if a fuel pump was delivering low pressure, it would not be intermittent. If there was an intermittent problem, would not be mechanical. I suspect sensor.

[LRD414]

Did you take note of the fault codes or ask for a record of them from the mechanic? Your description does not sound like a compressor related fault. Did you ask what fault finding was undertaken? There’s many examples of intermittent faults at the various linked threads, both here and Disco3, that are fuel pump related whether HP or LP. It could be a sensor too but without some kind of troubleshooting method it’s just guessing.

Scott

[Tinman]

Hi Guys, I had the same problem with myD3 2009 would drop to bump stops go in limp mode only did this intermittently for over 3 to 4 months. Changed alternator went good for a few more weeks then the same problems. Took it to my landrover guy who put it on his computer where it said 100% electronic brake problem 30% HPFP we changed the hand brake. Went a few more weeks then same deal. Changed the HPFP and now 3 months later and 15000klm later going great. So after going through everything that could possibly cause the problem I would confidently say change the HPFP and and you will have no more problems.

[orville]

Anyone tried to replace the hpfp themselves? Seems you could save a lot as labour cost is quite high.

[BradC]

Anyone tried to replace the hpfp themselves? Seems you could save a lot as labour cost is quite high.

Good question. In the last 3 days mine has gone from one error every couple of hundred Ks to 6 or 7 per day, I'll be finding out sooner rather than later.

[DiscoJeffster]

Ewe. It would have to be a right PITA. There is so little access to it at the back, plus all the fuel lines connecting into it. It’ll be such a pain unless you know it intimately. Good luck if you try.

[orville]

I realise it is not something that is easily done. I helped my brother, a truck diesel mechanic put a HPFP in a Nissan Navara.

[orville]

Lots of traps for young players.

[Lukeis]

I did the high pressure fuel pump a year ago, no one could tell me if it was going to be the high or low definitively but I took the plunge and almost a year on no issues.

I was having gearbox error restricted performance faults and going to limp mode sometimes not for two months then 6 times in a matter of 10 minutes. It was extremely frustrating but so irregular I managed to drive a caravan to tassie and back just by turning the car off when it happened and back on again.

So so happy to have that issue behind me.

Fyi Yi I got an indie to do it for 3k - Land Rover was going to be 6k but they were going to do both the high and low.

[Ean Austral]

I know Disco WA ( Roger ) done the replacement himself , he's a top bloke I am sure if you sent him a PM he would happily let you know how difficult and what you will or won't need .

i may be having to do mine as I have similar issues , and have purchased the 2 main lines that come off the pump as they are single use only according to the Land Rover manual.

Cheers Ean

[Eric SDV6SE]

SDV6 SE 3.0L with 186000kms.

Touch wood, no HPFP issues to date. Reading all of the above, is there any preventative maintenance tips ?

I replace fuel filters every 12 months (roughly every second oil service), check for water in the fue from the bottom of the filter roughly once a month, and check the system for any fault codes regularly.

I always refuel at the same BP and always buy the Premium Diesel. I also use a fuel system cleaner about every 4 refills.

Not sure if there's any more preemptive actions I can do, any advice appreciayed.

Have had one fuel related issue about 2 years ago (injector went out of range), no reoccurrence of that one.

Not keen on spending 2-3k on a new HPFP if there is some relatively simple checks that can be done.

Cheers

[Ean Austral]

SDV6 SE 3.0L with 186000kms.

Touch wood, no HPFP issues to date. Reading all of the above, is there any preventative maintenance tips ?

I replace fuel filters every 12 months (roughly every second oil service), check for water in the fue from the bottom of the filter roughly once a month, and check the system for any fault codes regularly.

I always refuel at the same BP and always buy the Premium Diesel. I also use a fuel system cleaner about every 4 refills.

Not sure if there's any more preemptive actions I can do, any advice appreciayed.

Have had one fuel related issue about 2 years ago (injector went out of range), no reoccurrence of that one.

Not keen on spending 2-3k on a new HPFP if there is some relatively simple checks that can be done.

Cheers

i wondered the same thing, even the diagnosis is very vague , altho it seems that replacing the pump has been a success.

i never had many faults until very recently and even then it was only when coasting along , I added some fuel treatment after getting a run of faults each day , sometimes 2 times a day , since adding the treatment and giving the car a couple of good bursts of the loud pedal , and a few runs in command shift where I would let it rev more than normal it seems to have settled down again and hasn't faulted in over a week.

i have purchased a new high pressure fuel sensor from the uk which hasn't arrived yet , but have also purchased a low km pump and the pipe work yo suit in case I need to do the replacement as a last resort .

Cheers Ean

[orville]

Ean, Is the sensor separate from the pump or somewhere in the line to it? I baulk at chasing repairs with parts. My experience with an outboard motor which I could have replaced for less than what I spent on bits has made me wary of this line of action.

I found this in the manual. Is this the sensor you are referring to?
The fuel pressure sensor is located in the forward end of the common fuel rail for the RH cylinder bank. The sensor is
screwed into a threaded port in the end of the fuel rail.
The fuel pressure sensor is a piezo-resistive type sensor containing an actuating diaphragm. Deflection of the diaphragm
provides a proportional signal (output) voltage to the ECM, dependant on the fuel pressure within the fuel rails.

[Ean Austral]

Ean, Is the sensor separate from the pump or somewhere in the line to it? I baulk at chasing repairs with parts. My experience with an outboard motor which I could have replaced for less than what I spent on bits has made me wary of this line of action.

I found this in the manual. Is this the sensor you are referring to?
The fuel pressure sensor is located in the forward end of the common fuel rail for the RH cylinder bank. The sensor is
screwed into a threaded port in the end of the fuel rail.
The fuel pressure sensor is a piezo-resistive type sensor containing an actuating diaphragm. Deflection of the diaphragm
provides a proportional signal (output) voltage to the ECM, dependant on the fuel pressure within the fuel rails.

in the end of the passenger side fuel rail is a high pressure fuel sensor according to what I have read , I have ordered 1 of these from the UK . Not sure if that is at all possible to cause the faulting but with it being so random and looks simple to change its worth a try .

cheers Ean

[Eric SDV6SE]

Whilst the car is a daily driver, its mostly freeway 100kmh driving, frequent speed changes and no slow cruising around town. In my opinion, slow cruising seems to be detrimental to these engines.

Did a 500km round trip through the WA south west last Sunday, car was faultless, although it highlighted a minor suspension noise (bushes I suspect)

[orville]

I just had my D4 serviced in Osborne Park. I discussed the HPFP in the D3 with the mechanic, he looked at it Wednesday with his machine and found the same fault P00087. His opinion was new pump would be about 4 1/2 hours labour plus parts. Do the timing belt at the same time. My opinion is that it is
only verbal and will work out more than that but still sounds reasonable.

[DiscoJeffster]

I just had my D4 serviced in Osborne Park. I discussed the HPFP in the D3 with the mechanic, he looked at it Wednesday with his machine and found the same fault P00087. His opinion was new pump would be about 4 1/2 hours labour plus parts. Do the timing belt at the same time. My opinion is that it is
only verbal and will work out more than that but still sounds reasonable.

He will mean the rear timing belt that drives the pump as the easiest way to deal with that belt is to cut it in situ. You then remove and reset the self tensioner, install a new belt and unlock the tensioner and boom, you’re off and away (insert removing pump in amongst that.

[BradC]

I added some fuel treatment after getting a run of faults each day , sometimes 2 times a day , since adding the treatment and giving the car a couple of good bursts of the loud pedal , and a few runs in command shift where I would let it rev more than normal it seems to have settled down again and hasn't faulted in over a week.

I'm slowly developing a theory on this. Since mine started faulting frequently last week, I've had plenty of opportunity to "play" with the fault.

It looks/feels very much like the pressure control valve is "sticking". It's a solenoid actuated piston that pushes on a ball to balance against the fuel pressure and it very much feels like as the valve is closed *slowly* it sticks. Sometimes it stays stuck and you get the fault, and sometimes it pops loose and you can feel it suddenly develop more power as the fuel pressure jumps.

Driving it "vigorously" results in the valve closing in a more assertive manner and this seems to not allow it to stick. When tootling around a slight increase in requested torque results in the ECU calling for "a bit" more pressure. It tries to close the valve up a bit, sees no increase in the rail pressure and (in my car) repeats this until the valve is commanded ~55% closed. It holds it there for 2 seconds and then signals a fault. When getting into the loud pedal, the ECU figures out it needs a lot more pressure quickly and closes the valve a lot faster. It doesn't seem to stick when you do this.

Is there anyone in Perth who has a duff EU4 pump (destined for the shredder) I could trade for a suitably expensive beverage so I can strip it down and get a better understanding of this mechanism?

[orville]

Sounds like a good theory but can it be fixed or avoided without the expensive pump replacement?

[BradC]

Sounds like a good theory but can it be fixed or avoided without the expensive pump replacement?

Thus my interest in getting an old pump to tear down.

[SliderP]

I'm slowly developing a theory on this. Since mine started faulting frequently last week, I've had plenty of opportunity to "play" with the fault.

It looks/feels very much like the pressure control valve is "sticking". It's a solenoid actuated piston that pushes on a ball to balance against the fuel pressure and it very much feels like as the valve is closed *slowly* it sticks. Sometimes it stays stuck and you get the fault, and sometimes it pops loose and you can feel it suddenly develop more power as the fuel pressure jumps.

Driving it "vigorously" results in the valve closing in a more assertive manner and this seems to not allow it to stick. When tootling around a slight increase in requested torque results in the ECU calling for "a bit" more pressure. It tries to close the valve up a bit, sees no increase in the rail pressure and (in my car) repeats this until the valve is commanded ~55% closed. It holds it there for 2 seconds and then signals a fault. When getting into the loud pedal, the ECU figures out it needs a lot more pressure quickly and closes the valve a lot faster. It doesn't seem to stick when you do this.

Hi @BradC,

I have been chasing the P0087 issue for months now and I agree on your theory. Did you ever solve the issue?

The problem is, while agreeing on your theory, I replaced the pressure control valve (with one from a Peugeot 2.7 HDI) because I saw the PCV % going over 50% without the fuel pressure increasing and then the car got in limp mode. I could even drive it without the issues occurring; by keeping an eye on the PCV % and as soon as it hit 50% kick down the pedal after which the car continued driving as normal. But the issue persisted. So I replaced the fuel rail pressure sensor, and thought the issues were gone for about 4 weeks / 1500 km. I was really happy and treated the car on a new front drivetrain.

But now, yesterday the P0087 and limp mode came back... on a 40 km highway trip on cruise control. Only once though. But my confidence has gone again... (especially the missus' confidence)

I don't really know what to go for next. I still can't believe the mechanical part of the HPFP would be failing, because, why would the issue be so intermittent then? The car drives absolutely fine and smooth. Pulls like a train when I push it hard. LPFP is new (genuine LR), fuel filter also fresh. Lines blown with air and about 1,5 litre diesel at the Schrader valve in less than 30 seconds. Alternator has been replaced, not the battery because that seems good. Aux battery fitted, probably that? I will disconnect it either way.

It would be good to know if you sorted the issue out in some way...

Cheers,
Paul

[shack]

Unfortunately there is also a VCV that can fail as well, the issue is the difficulty of working on the unit, so realistically best bet $$ wise would be too pull it yourself, replace both actuators, then refit, see if it worked, if it did.. Good for you!... If not, pull it again and replace the whole unit. Fun times.

I'm not much help unfortunately!

[BradC]

Hi @BradC,

I have been chasing the P0087 issue for months now and I agree on your theory. Did you ever solve the issue?

G'day Paul,

Yes, I solved it by replacing the pump. According to my spreadsheet I currently have 33,049km on the new pump and haven't had a fuel related fault since.

I still have mine, and 2 of Ean's in a box to do a strip and inspect on when I get time. Unfortunately just after I replaced the pump in April 2019 I had a "change of personal circumstances" and everything went on the backburner. I'll get back to it one day.

I couldn't see a way to get the PCV out of an EU4 pump without removing the feed pump casing, and once I had it out I figured it was such a bitch of a job I didn't want to risk having to do it a second time, so I plonked $1550 down for a brand new pump with local warranty.

[Bulletman]

G'day Paul,

Yes, I solved it by replacing the pump. According to my spreadsheet I currently have 33,049km on the new pump and haven't had a fuel related fault since.

I still have mine, and 2 of Ean's in a box to do a strip and inspect on when I get time. Unfortunately just after I replaced the pump in April 2019 I had a "change of personal circumstances" and everything went on the backburner. I'll get back to it one day.

I couldn't see a way to get the PCV out of an EU4 pump without removing the feed pump casing, and once I had it out I figured it was such a bitch of a job I didn't want to risk having to do it a second time, so I plonked $1550 down for a brand new pump with local warranty.

1 of those from me was working fine when removed from another engine , but yet wouldn't work when fitted as a replacement for mine which was faulting. 10hrs of labour to remove that pump which had just been fitted ,and fit a brand new pump hasn't seen mine fault either in a couple of years.

I'm guessing its not the pump but the valves that fault but unless someone has a full test rig that can run the pump remote of the engine to test replacement parts, it's just more economical to buy a replacement pump and swap it out, especially if you are paying labour rates close to or above $150/hr

Cheers Ean

[stevencalland]

Hi Bradc. Where did you buy the Hpfp from for $1500? I also need to purchase..

[BradC]

I bought mine from United Fuel Injection in Perth. It's probably accurate to say since I bought mine they've become somewhat less available and considerably more expensive.