2a 109 - should I be worried?

[Firefish]

Hi All,

I'm in the process of buying a recently restored 2a 109 Station Wagon from the UK. Looks fine, but the chassis numbers are from a 2a Diesel 109 Utility, the HPI check describes the vehicle as a 1970 2.6 petrol utility, and currently living under the bonnet is a fresh 5 bearing 2.25 (2.3) petrol motor. The 4 is set back on new mounts, and there are other suggestions that possibly the rest of the mechanicals and body are from a six.
I understand that by nature of their bolt-together design that Series vehicles can tend to become somewhat of a Chimera over time. I'm also not particularly sad about the idea of having some of the added features of the six cylinder station wagon together with the economy and reliability of a 5 bearing four. Also, unlike 88's, the 2a 109's aren't exactly thick on the ground here or in the UK (I think the Yanks are buying them all up :mad:).

However, will this cause me any surprises come import or registration time?

Thanks in advance.

[Slunnie]

I don't know the answer to your question, but interestingly my blue ute according (correctly) to the RTA is a 1960 series II ute. According to the chassis no. / VIN it's a series3 ute - no chance of that!.

[Firefish]

That's interesting.

I walked away from a 2a with Series 3 chassis and numbers. Worried some over-zealous public servant would question it at registration.

So who else has a Series with, shall we say, a mixed parentage?

[Cobber]

If in doubt, it may be better to walk away.

If you had a vehicle of 'mixed parentage' already in the country, it probably wouldn't be quite so difficult to please those who need to be pleased. Importing a vehicle from overseas is a whole different kettle of fish.

One of my mates imported a Rolls Royce 20/25 (in need of restoration) and they made it very difficult once it arrived at this end. He had to provide evidence that the vehicle was infact, that vehicle, and had to go as far as providing a copy of an original letter from RR. This may have been a one off, or the fact it was a Rolls, but I know they do tend to get very picky with vehicles, especially from the UK. Being a Land Rover, it would be assumed it has done some rural work, so they may make it hard for this reason alone (Quarantine etc).

But again, this may vary from port to port :confused:

At the end of the day, I suppose it's risk/reward. Is the risk worth the reward at the end? :)

[Slunnie]

I think it would be worth chatting to a blue slipper as it can be really messy getting into all of this. The blue slippers are much easier to deal with and get info from than the RTA.

[Series3 GT]

That's interesting.

I walked away from a 2a with Series 3 chassis and numbers. Worried some over-zealous public servant would question it at registration.

So who else has a Series with, shall we say, a mixed parentage?
Well my IIA has a IIA chassis (as far as I know) with SIII front wings, SIII truck cab and SIII interior with 6cyl gearstick (prefer 6cyl stick to 4cyl). But it's probably got other SIII parts, It was originally a well body but was converted to tray back and all sorts of things done to it.
:wasntme: My SIII isn't even close to a SIII anymore, it's got Rangie chassis and running gear now so its powerful and comfortble so not very SIII like.

[NiteMare]

in the UK we (almost) use whatever is in reasonable condition to resurrect our landrovers but unless it's a genuine NEW replacement chassis that has been fitted by a Rover agent or bought NEW some years ago i'd be suspicious of a 2a with a S3 chassis under it

you can still buy new replacement 109 chassis from Richard Chassis but they aren't small change, using a secondhand chassis is technically illegal here as it's the chassis the carries the majority of the identity points (we need a minimum of 8 points out of 13 to legally retain the identity)

body panels, axles, engines and gearboxes on the other hand often get swapped from one model to the next unless someone is performing a "rivet counter" rebuild as those carry the smaller points required (body panels carry Zero points), using a secondhand axle/engine/gearbox is legally fine as long as it's of the type Land Rover would have used even if it's a Series 3 component in an early Series 2 and doesn't require a major modification to the chassis to fit it

so to sum it up, the vehicle "could" be what it claims to be, or it could be a "bitsa", you've gotta make the call

i've a mate with a Series 2a 109 (supposedly) that has a Series 3 "combat" chassis under it along with a 200tdi under the bonnet, i like it as it's a practical truck built from salvaged bits but definitely no show-winner :D, strictly speaking he's breaking our laws but the likelihood of him getting into trouble for it is pretty slim but if he sold it to you i'd guess you'd have troubles getting it through your import identification system

[Slunnie]

In Aus, the vehicle ID is based on the chassis only. If you put a RR chassis under a series Landy, then despite what it looks like, that series has just become a RR as far as the registration authorities are concerned.

[Jeff]

I had a 67 6 cylinder 2A years ago, that I put a 64 4 cylinder military chassis under with a 68 6 cylinder firewall as the original chassis was bent and broken and the firewall was rusted through in many places. I wonder if someone years later gets confused by my meddling, but it was what was available at the time. It should last as we treated everything to prevent the rust reoccurring as I lived right above a beach at the time.

Jeff

:rocket:

[Firefish]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I think I'll put this in the hands of the "Department of Infrastructure and Planning" Gods, and apply for an import permit. If they don't have a problem when I confess that I have a "diesel 109 utility" that looks suspiciously like a "2.6 109 Station Wagon with a 2.25 petrol transplant" and I have no evidence at all to support how this miraculous transformation came about, I'll take it as a sign from above :angel:

[Slunnie]

I'd make sure you have all registration paperwork from the UK and I'd still also talk to a blue slipper (NSW) to see what is required, especially if it needs to comply with ADRs that require a compliance plate which it won't have.

[Firefish]

I spoke to a local workshop who can conduct roadworthy inspections. I understand that a series 2a pre-dates ADR's, and the only retrospective regulation seems to be related to fitting retracting seat belts, and the only advice was that an engineering certificate may be required if this requires modifications to mounting points. 2a's also pre-date VIN numbers, which will probably upset and confuse my local motor registry who seem to delight in making sure all the numbers match. UK registration paperwork seems a little odd - the vehicle's history being tied to the number plates more than anything else. Am I having fun yet? :(
Meh... time for a quiet little drink I think. Cheers all.

[Slunnie]

I'm not sure what the magic date is, though my IIa has a compliance plate. The chassis number is pre VIN system.

[Cobber]

The chassis number is pre VIN system.Even with Chassis Number (and Engine Number) there is a good chance they will knock it back without a compliance plate - unfortunately it seems to depend on the tester you get on the day ...

[chazza]

I spoke to a local workshop who can conduct roadworthy inspections. I understand that a series 2a pre-dates ADR's, and the only retrospective regulation seems to be related to fitting retracting seat belts, and the only advice was that an engineering certificate may be required if this requires modifications to mounting points. 2a's also pre-date VIN numbers, which will probably upset and confuse my local motor registry who seem to delight in making sure all the numbers match..

I would be very surprised if if your inspector is correct about the seatbelts. According to National guidelines on vehicle standards and licencing, your 2A will not need to have them fitted; however; State regulations can be added to the National ones, so the best people to talk to is an engineer at your State Licencing Authority. Have a read of the National regs here http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP10_Section_LO_ADRs_ICVs_1Jan2011_v2.pdf and then look for your State ones online.

The only retrospective regulation for old cars I have ever discovered is the requirement to have reflectors fitted to the front and rear - there may be others but I haven't found them. Once again this probably depends on which State you live in, but inspectors are often wrong, because they don't take the time to read the regulations,

Cheers Charlie