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inken_dave
28th January 2013, 08:43 AM
G'day, I'm a keen Landrover owner, but I've been wanting to get involved with Unimog's as well. There are a few for sale, but more the top end of the market, so I'm waiting patiently. Does anyone here own a mog, or involved in a club which you might be able to point me in the right direction.

I know the Australian Army will be disposing of some, so I look foward to having more on the market. I'm quite interested in the older ones like the 404 etc.

A friend of mine has a Thornycroft Nubian TFA(Truck Fire Aircraft) 6x6 complete. I thought this may convert into something quite special, but I really want a Unimog:cool:

Mick_Marsh
28th January 2013, 03:00 PM
I knew of a couple of 404's for sale. I'll have a look to see if they're still there. They would need quite a bit of work.
What are you after? Condition, price, location, etc.?

Cobber
28th January 2013, 03:14 PM
I've always been facinated by Unimogs, but not quite to the point of owning one. I take my hat off for their capabilities though :cool:

Good luck in your search!

Some of the pastoralists have old Blitz trucks, left behind / bought after the war, still in regular use. :cool: There may be a Unimog around these parts, hidden in a shed, but I haven't seen one.

spudboy
28th January 2013, 08:19 PM
A bloke on this forum called Nashy99 (I think) has got a U1300/L37 for sale for around $40K (Long wheelbase of 3700mm).

It has been out in the weather for quite some time so cosmetically it is a bit ordinary, but it has fast axles (very rare) and FSH and low KMs (80,000Km). It also has the more powerful 170HP turboed engine fitted from new.

Currently has a workshop canopy fitted to it with a walk through from the cabin.

Send him a PM and I'm sure he'll send you some more details.

HTH
David

PeterM
29th January 2013, 02:00 PM
The Army should start to look at selling off their 'Mogs and R series Macks from as early as mid next year as the new replacement trucks start to come on line.

HEYVJ
29th January 2013, 02:32 PM
At Bathurst 2012, I saw Larry Perkins' Unimog/Kenworth.
If it's done by Larry, you know it must be good.

I took a few pics but I still don't know how to upload photos properly here. The Truck is a big 4x4 Unimog but looks mor like a Dakar truck. Unlike the images in this link, the PERKINSmog is now sporting a, Camo paint job including roll out awning. Attention to detail is awesome, including custom PERKINS badges in the place of the Kenworth ones.

Perkins swaps racetrack for outback | motor homes (http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/perkins-swaps-racetrack-for-outback-20110526-1f4vs.html)

Cheers,
HEYVJ

inken_dave
30th January 2013, 09:17 AM
I knew of a couple of 404's for sale. I'll have a look to see if they're still there. They would need quite a bit of work.
What are you after? Condition, price, location, etc.?

Thanks Mick! If you do find anything let me know, I suppose at this stage I'm considering anything. I like the ex military 404's, the newer models are quite pricey, plenty around for $40000-$75000

See this one on gumtree

UNIMOG U1700 1990 FULL GROUND UP RESTORATION | Heavy, Farming & Agriculture Equipment | Gumtree Australia Gold Coast South - Mudgeeraba (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/mudgeeraba/heavy-farming-agriculture-equipment/unimog-u1700-1990-full-ground-up-restoration/1005434869)

Very nice, but a little out of my league, if only I had the spare cash!

Prepared to travel, or truck it from most places!

David

zedcars
30th January 2013, 02:59 PM
Hey guys
I have worked on Mogs for years.
The 404 ex mil spec generally comes in two basic versions a Nato spec and a Swiss unit. The "Swissy" is nicer with a better canvass topped cab.
Here's a picture:-
http://unimogshop.com/ads/1970-swiss-unimog-404s-troop-transport-low-miles-great-shape/
The Nato unit had a different canopy and was a bit more claustrophobic as a result.
They come as troop carriers and Radio boxed units generally. There are some tin cab versions out there mostly Police and Fire truck versions.
Powered by a 6 cylinder 2.2 single carby engine the unit is a free revver which is just as well since the truck is a gutless beast on the highway and you are likely to get a "Kenworth Kiss" on your derriere by a trucker!

Getting the thing to scud along is quite a feat and usually takes a rowing action of 4th to 5th and vickey verkey when the speedo drops to 70kph.
On the flat 80kph is about all its good for unless there is a good tail wind or a down hill grade. Most driving on the highway is pedal to the metal!
Off road the truck is marvel and if you like tractor like speeds its great. Unfortunately when on the road at a ponderous speed flat out these days you will get nasty fellow motorist's single digit signals and you will be cussing "kiss my derriere"!:o:D out the window!

The unit is nice in wintertime with plenty off heat coming off the tin plate dog house but uncomfortably hot when ambients climb past 25dgc. Besides in these temperatures once the coolant gets about 85dgc on the gauge and climbing, the engine heat boils the carburetor and you get the "kangaroo hop", as the engine runs semi starved of fuel.
These defects and more were tackled by MB in the USA when they tried to sell them to the US forces. Never a total success the project was dropped with the introduction of the commercial diesel engined 406 model.

Some units were produced for Police and Ambulance application with the M130 petrol twin carbied engine, and the extra oomph made it more tolerable to drive. Equally the extra fuel delivery eliminated the boiling carb problem.

In either case the drum brakes are a bit iffy a driving in modern conditions you have to think ahead, well ahead on the road conditions when a stop is likely.

I have converted quite a few to diesel power using the M617 turbo diesel from a 1985 MB 123 platform. It transforms the truck albeit a bit noisy, but it has gobs of power once the turbo spools up!
See:- a normally aspirated unit--turbo is better for the grin factor !~
Speed roadtest Unimog 404 Diesel - NATO Videos : Firstpost Topic - Page 1 (http://firstpost.com/topic/organization/nato-speed-roadtest-unimog-404-diesel-video-OiAKR9wCfxw-920-1.html)

But the NOISE!
It'll drive you mad , unless you are dedicated --really dedicated!
End of part 1
Dennis
zedcars
ps I owned a Swissy 404 for three years and built a house with it. It is now scudding about with a new owner for the past 10 years with a chem tank on it; spraying noxious weeds on the county highways. One thing though well looked after, you can't kill one!
D

inken_dave
30th January 2013, 06:47 PM
Thanks for all that info! Do you have any recolection of the gear ratios? Is the limit of the top end a function of the gearing, or the lack of torque?

My main interest is definitly going slow! I live in a great area near Tamworth NSW where there are plenty of dirt roads accessing great state forrests etc.

Zedcars, or anyone else, do you have any idea how many 404's have been brought in? One option is that I import one or two? Not that difficult these days!

slug_burner
30th January 2013, 10:32 PM
Have you seen a 404 in the flesh? They are smaller than the mogs are in the later models. I would take what zedcars said very seriously with respect to noise, heat etc. I sat in a 404 in it was small and a big tunnel between the seats. I could imagine the heat and noise enough to know that it wasn't for me.

Even the later ones like 1300, 1700 and 1750 etc are ok off road but the highway is not their forte.

ramblingboy42
31st January 2013, 08:30 PM
it seems that a lot of people are getting a bit excited at the prospect of possibly buying ex RAA Unimogs when they come onto the market. These are trucks....big....8tonne capacity ...(I will stand corrected if I'm wrong there)....impressive capability.....but not really suited to the recreational 4wd market, low road speeds, high fuel consumption and will not go where your defender can.....simply cause theyre too big.....yep , I'd like to get one, not sure where I'd take it though.....and I dont have enough of anything to fill the load area....

zedcars
1st February 2013, 01:36 AM
Thanks for all that info! Do you have any recolection of the gear ratios? Is the limit of the top end a function of the gearing, or the lack of torque?

My main interest is definitly going slow! I live in a great area near Tamworth NSW where there are plenty of dirt roads accessing great state forrests etc.

Zedcars, or anyone else, do you have any idea how many 404's have been brought in? One option is that I import one or two? Not that difficult these days!

Dave
The std engine derivative was the M180 a 2.2 single carb petrol unit producing 80 BHP @ 4800r/m. This engine was a five bearing crank unit and was also found in the early 1960's MB220. The 220 S had twin carbs no less!
As you can imagine at 6000 ft to 10,000 ft where I am this truck runs like an asthmatic dog! Nevertheless its a pretty bullet proof engine in its Mil form with a deep oil pan holding 8 litres of oil for all angle operation.

The M130 option produced 110 BHP at 4800r/m and was a twin carb variant and was similar to what you would find in the MB280 having a 7 bearing crank.

The power delivery of the M180 is a virtue of low down torque characteristics of a side valve engine coupled to low gearing.
Ratios are 1st 14.93:1, 2nd 8.23:1, 3rd 4.47:1, 4th 2.47:1, 5th 1.53:1 and 6th 1to 1. You could get an aux crawler gear giving 46.01:1 & 25:1 respectively as an option.
Then total axle reduction was/is 7.56:1 (made up of diff ratio 3.55:1 and portal hub reduction of 2.13:1 .

The truck is a bit cramped due to its size but is surprising comfortable once you get seated. Of the two I liked the Swissy troop carrier truck and off road it was bloody marvelous at recovering inferior 4wds in tight places The PTO driven winch is super capacity.
I have seen a short film of a German nutter of a squadie being pulled up a vertical cliff face by a fellow 404 Unimog at the top of the summit and the dead Mog on the end of the hook! The soldier is calmly sat in the driver's looking up the wire rope as he is being winched. Too much adrenaline for me!:o

Overall for curio big boys toy the truck can be fun, but can be tedious on anything more than a 100 miles drive.

This brings me to the next up in the model range , the 406 series which had a real truck diesel engine and much more equipment.
I was introduced to my first when I worked on a county in England and they had one as grave digging machine. One of its many talents.

I will give you blokes an overview on that model later today.
Cheers Dennis
zedcars

MBZ460
1st February 2013, 06:47 PM
Wack in a OM606 and power up...
(Putting one in my G-wagen soon)

DeanoH
1st February 2013, 08:08 PM
Hi Dave,

If you're after something a bit more practical how about one of these. :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/101.jpg

This is my Australian built Oka, tough as nails and very simple construction.

Perkins Phaser 110 (HP), 4 litre turbo diesel, 5 speed Spicer all synchro box, indestructable NP 205 transfer case (or equally unbreakable Rockwell in later versions), Dana 70 rear axle / Dana 60 front axle, twin 105 litre fuel tanks, dual batteries, built in snorkel in 'b' pillar (air inlet approx. 6' from the ground) and available in a number of body configurations.

Fitted with either 19.5" or 16" wheels so tyre choice is huge. A common setup for serious off road is ex army ASLAV 16" tyres, 325/85 16 Michelin XML's which will take you just about any where.

Heaps of drive train upgrade gear available, diffs., centres etc.

Extremely capable off road, 130" wheelbase and an active forum as well.

Prices start around the $25K mark and if you want a tuff, reliable off road Nissan, Toyota etc eater you won't be dissapointed.

OKA forum home page here------------ Home (http://www.byles.net/www.oka4wd.com/home)

Deano :)

splatters
2nd February 2013, 01:14 AM
The Army should start to look at selling off their 'Mogs and R series Macks from as early as mid next year as the new replacement trucks start to come on line.

Still a long way off that one happening... A lovely lass with Red hair is in savings mode

zedcars
2nd February 2013, 02:00 PM
Unimog 406
I did a quick Google as Google Australia to see what came up.
Not much immediate of significance but I did get a gallery of views.
unimog 406 australia - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?q=unimog+406+australia&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&ei=PYAMUZ3CJoqIygHwnIDQBw&ved=0CGAQsAQ4Cg&biw=1024&bih=675)

Someone once asked me how I would explain a 406 Unimog or its double cab derivative the 416 DoKa ( double cab variant )
Basically take the 404 model stretch the cab and the frame to take a Mercedes diesel OM 352 truck engine. A well tried unit found in all sorts of big trucks and stuff it, no shoe horn it, into the cab space available.
Then take the basic gearbox from the earlier 404 Mog and make it stronger and add a splitter box to the front for some models which is commonly known as the cascade unit.
Since the engine has an air compressor as std, all the 4WD and cross lock axle activities can be air operated instead of the handbrake like lever found in the 404.
Of course there is no room for a centre passenger space the area is taken up by a huge array of gear lever shifters and the passenger would need to be a skinny guy in any case!
Here's a basic overview for those interested:-
Unimog 406 416 info (http://www.unimogcentre.com/unimog406.html)

Since the early 70's I have worked on these trucks off and on. What surprised me from first putting a wrench on one is their versatility, basic toughness and ability to be abused without mechanical failure.
Again not too road friendly with a top speed of about 45 to 48mph, but you can get fast axles which will make it do about 65 to 68 mph on the highway. Just as well since the brakes even later disc models are still a bit lacking in that area.

These trucks started to be phased out in 1978, making way for the much more road like truck successor the U Series.
Still you can often find the older 406 in all places of the world, even the US Army has a fleet with back hoes and ploughs on the front called in US Army nomenclature SEE's (small emplacement excavator.)
Dennis
zedcars

101 Ron
2nd February 2013, 04:26 PM
I have driven a 404.
It was fitted with a optional extra low range, which has never been needed.
The motor is too small and limits a otherwise fairly good vehicle.
A engine transplant wouldnt be straight forward without much extra work and engineering.
If you have ideas of driving a 404 around australia for that big trip , forget it.
There is a big gap in the gear ratios between 3th and 4th on the main box.
The low power stops the vehicle getting a run up over things off road wise or makes a steep hill climbs a chore especially with any sort of load.
I did like the way the body and chassis was designed to flex and high ground clearence ect.
A bloke in sydney imports the vehicle from europe and you would be looking at just over 20k for one.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/military-land-rovers/131639-abercombie-winter-rally-2011-a.html

zedcars
2nd February 2013, 07:38 PM
I have driven a 404.
It was fitted with a optional extra low range, which has never been needed.
The motor is too small and limits a otherwise fairly good vehicle.
A engine transplant wouldnt be straight forward without much extra work and engineering.
If you have ideas of driving a 404 around australia for that big trip , forget it.
There is a big gap in the gear ratios between 3th and 4th on the main box.
The low power stops the vehicle getting a run up over things off road wise or makes a steep hill climbs a chore especially with any sort of load.
I did like the way the body and chassis was designed to flex and high ground clearence ect.
A bloke in sydney imports the vehicle from europe and you would be looking at just over 20k for one.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/military-land-rovers/131639-abercombie-winter-rally-2011-a.html

Ron
A good assessment.
Here in the US you can find them (404) for about $3000 to $8000 US)

About ten years aqo when they were all the rage over here and the Swiss Army was liquidating their fleets of Unimogs and Pinzgauers, they were plentiful at specialist importers around the country. A very lightly used 404 with around 5000 kms on it went for about $8000.
Cheers Dennis

zedcars
3rd February 2013, 11:34 AM
A tale of mirth, the 406 Unimog and digging a grave.
I think I can tell this tale to a bunch of Auzzies as the sense of humour about such things as death, appear to have the same depth of mirth as us Poms. Sadly American find this story a bit sick, so here goes!:)
Back in the 1970's I got a job as a Vehicle/Plant Machinery inspector with our local County Council. Like most counties at the time, the place was run by ex WW2 servicemen like my dad, who was in fact the heavy vehicle workshop foreman.

The bosses of the shop complex were an retired ex Army Colonel and a Brigadier as his side kick.
One day the Brigadier mentioned that there were too many useless buggers digging holes on the county.

"Never gave it a thought" said I in reply.
What he was actually eluding to was the retired old plant operators that went back home to those quaint Gloucestershire villages doing a bit of hedging and patching, planting dafs and hyacinths on green verges and sometimes digging a grave when someone pegged out in the village destined to be interred in the local church grave yard. All of them were receiving a stipend for doing such things on top of their pensions. (as OAP's ) Horrible term:- "old age pensioners"

He then announced he had arranged a demo of a grave digging machine at 10,00 am sharp at Epney church yard. He wanted me to observe the vehicle in question and write a report quote:- Estimate maintenance costing difficulties for a year"

So I turned up at the allotted time to see a Case Unimog 406 with back hoe accessory roll off the trailer.

This is where the digging exercise was to take place for 1,00pm burial. Photos of Church of St Lawrence - Longney and Epney - Gloucestershire - England | British Listed Buildings (http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-131789-church-of-st-lawrence-longney-and-epney-/photos)
With Curate doing a fit about missing the old boxey graves with that monstrosity we got it to the grave site and the operator cut the grave in a few minutes.
I could see the Brigadier was highly chuffed with the result but the two old digger boys sat on grave with their picks shovels and old gas mask bags with flasks, beers and sandwiches were less than impressed.

The Brigadier said "Well boys what do you think? Do you think we could use on of these on the county and bring it into the latter part of the 20th century"?

The older one of the two a real country boy, lifted his tweed cap and scratched his thinning head!

Well yur highness hims a fine machine very impressive but we couldn't use im round yer see 'cos we has tradition see!
He went on and I could see the Brigadier was in for some home spun country advise! So he stood there like a school boy being lectured :o

"Yah see yur Lord ship, we never opens a grave before 12,00 o clock this tyme of the yur. We dah just cuts the grass sod off and rolls it up behind the church because the locals don't like seeing an open grave see. We dah put that plastic grass down while we waits and gets and the hymn sig-nal":)

"Once we has a cuppa its about ha' past ten and the family members start arriving and we dah open the church for all thems to go in plus all the village hangers on who are looking for a sandwich and a pint after the event".

By noon the coffin has arrived and the vicar leads the box into the church, and we dah fast locks the door. They then are going to sing their hymns and speak their "eu-lodge ease" for the next hour!
In that tyme we has to come out yur and dig like bloody fury, in an hour we can gets down six fut see in this zoil! Then as we hear the sig nal, the hymn "abide with me: its tyme to clean up open the church door and the vicar leads the coffin to the site and down it goes ashes to ashes dust to dust an weem shoveling.

"The reason for all this tradition your Lordship is that if you dah dig the grave too early or too late like you've dun ere wid that machine, the water frum the river dah flood the hole, like its doing now!
But if you cuts it just in tyme you has a nice dry clean hole, and that's because the mourners round yur gets very upset wiv us if you has to smash a hole in the coffin to get the bugger to sink!"
That's why we has tradition in this village , and now I have to go on my bike and get a pump to pump out the ole you've made.

Poor old Brigadier got his verbal cummupence !:D As a lesson in country matters As I saw the loading of the truck I had a chance to see it up close and personal like, I was impressed but the two old boys we not. As I climbed into the county Morris Minor van, the other fella who had kept quite shouts out "Hey Lad, you are Harry Williams' boy from the Central repair depot arn't yah? Ahah
Is that bloody thing made in Germany?
We might have hay seeds in our hair boy, but no way are we having German stuff in our village, I fought them in North Africa.:D;)
Food for thought at the time for sure!
I hope you enjoyed a bit of Gloucestershire country matters.
Cheers & have a good weekend
Dennis
zedcars

lebanon
23rd February 2013, 06:55 AM
Dave
The std engine derivative was the M180 a 2.2 single carb petrol unit producing 80 BHP @ 4800r/m. This engine was a five bearing crank unit and was also found in the early 1960's MB220. The 220 S had twin carbs no less!
As you can imagine at 6000 ft to 10,000 ft where I am this truck runs like an asthmatic dog! Nevertheless its a pretty bullet proof engine in its Mil form with a deep oil pan holding 8 litres of oil for all angle operation.

The M130 option produced 110 BHP at 4800r/m and was a twin carb variant and was similar to what you would find in the MB280 having a 7 bearing crank.

The power delivery of the M180 is a virtue of low down torque characteristics of a side valve engine coupled to low gearing.
Ratios are 1st 14.93:1, 2nd 8.23:1, 3rd 4.47:1, 4th 2.47:1, 5th 1.53:1 and 6th 1to 1. You could get an aux crawler gear giving 46.01:1 & 25:1 respectively as an option.
Then total axle reduction was/is 7.56:1 (made up of diff ratio 3.55:1 and portal hub reduction of 2.13:1 .

The truck is a bit cramped due to its size but is surprising comfortable once you get seated. Of the two I liked the Swissy troop carrier truck and off road it was bloody marvelous at recovering inferior 4wds in tight places The PTO driven winch is super capacity.
I have seen a short film of a German nutter of a squadie being pulled up a vertical cliff face by a fellow 404 Unimog at the top of the summit and the dead Mog on the end of the hook! The soldier is calmly sat in the driver's looking up the wire rope as he is being winched. Too much adrenaline for me!:o

Overall for curio big boys toy the truck can be fun, but can be tedious on anything more than a 100 miles drive.

This brings me to the next up in the model range , the 406 series which had a real truck diesel engine and much more equipment.
I was introduced to my first when I worked on a county in England and they had one as grave digging machine. One of its many talents.

I will give you blokes an overview on that model later today.
Cheers Dennis
zedcars

I owned a ex- german army Unimog 404 and wanted to transform it into a camper.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/227.jpg

The main problem with this truck is the high fuel consumption due to very low gearingand its small engine, the M180 2.2L.

I also made the swap of the engine and fitted the larger M130 2.8L hoping to get a better cruising speed and lower the fuel consumption.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/228.jpg

The difference between both engines doesn't stop on their capacity or output, in fact the M180 used on the Unimog differs from the one used on the
MB cars by its heavier crankshaft.

The swap of the engines is straight forward but the following points must be taken care of:

1- The Unimog carb and manifold should be used on the M180 since the dual carbs used on the M180 are not designed for off-roading as such can cause fuel starvation or flooding when negotiating severe inclines. A second option is to keep the dual carb setting manifold of the M180 and make the necessary fittings and connections to install 2 single core carbs (original Unimog's), but I think this is a tedious job.

2-The oil pan of the M130 should be mounted on the M180 since two flexing arms connects to it from one side and to the gearbox from the other, also the difference in the crankshafts necessitates clearing a bit of the oil pan wall where one of the connecting rod bolts scrubs.

3-The original flywheel should be used with the M180 but needs to be re-balanced since it acts as a harmonic-balancer when mated to the M130 engine crankshaft.

I am sorry I don't have pictures showing the above points.

Other than that it is a straight forward job with all the engine parts (distributor, alternator...) easily swapped between engines.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/229.jpg

The M180 certainly gives more power yet it is not spectacular especially on mountain roads where shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear is constant.

I wasn't able to check the top speed as I didn't feel secured over 70Km/h, which makes long distance trip a pain.

On the other hand this truck is a goat when it leaves the tarmac, with fantastic suspension articulation matched with an engine-gearbox and body flex.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/230.jpg

I was even tempted to install a turbo diesel on the Unimog, again for better performances and lower fuel consumption. The estimated cost was a good deterrent. You can check the link below on the way to do it.
Dieselization of the Unimog S – 404 (http://www.ki7xh.com/dieseliz.htm)

I believe that starting with the U1000 model, Unimogs were designed to offer better ergonomics and comfort to the driver and passengers, this makes them excellent long distance overland machines.

p.s as you can see the unimog carried different colors because I wasn't able to wait to test it until the end of the body repair and color change :D