300 Tdi head fitting

[2stroke]

Hi guys, hoping for some more specific information than my manual seems to offer. I'm sure I am not the first to have ordered a 300 Tdi "performance" head from Turners. The head, gaskets timing belt and new bolts all arrived in a timely manner, in a neat package. In regards to torqueing it down the manual states that all bolts are to be torqued to 40 Nm then finished by degrees of rotation (angle gauge is on order). No mention of final torque or retorque requirements. It's a single hole head gasket but I assume it will be correct as supplied with the head?

[Bundalene]

Hi, yes that is the correct procedure for these heads, torque first and then angular torquing. As for the gasket, you would assume they supplied the correct one.



Erich

[2stroke]

Thanks Bundalene, so is it a monotorque type gasket or do I retorque?

[TonyC]

Hi,
I believe the head gasket is determined by how much the pistons protrude from the block, and has nothing to do with the head.
What gasket was in the motor before?

Tony

[rick130]

No, you tension to angle, that's it.

Gasket thickness is determined by piston protrusion, it has nothing to do with the head (which is flat)

Unless the block has been decked, or new crank/rods/pistons installed, you use the same thickness gasket as was already on there.

[edit] Tony beat me :D
BTW, make sure the threads are lubed and the holes chased before tensioning.
I'd personally ARP's lube if available, just makes things more consistent than the old school engine oil or assembly lube we all used to use.

[2stroke]

As far as I'm aware the engine's original apart from the times I've been in there, only big ends, timing belts, front of timing case, oilpump, relief valve etc. Haven't pulled her apart yet, just getting organized. Will check the existing gasket when I'm in there and get the lube beforehand. Whatever it takes for the best outcome, she's been a great vehicle so far and is still running sweet.:) At 252000 km:o

[Blknight.aus]

NO...

you cannot assume that the supplied gasket is the correct one.

The thickness of the head gasket is determined by the protrusion of the piston past the deck at TDC. How does a head supplier know what the protrusion from the block is if you havent told them or had them measure it?

from memory the thickness are

1 hole/notch = 1.3mm
2=1.4
3-1.5
0=1.6

[rick130]

NO...

you cannot assume that the supplied gasket is the correct one.

The thickness of the head gasket is determined by the protrusion of the piston past the deck at TDC. How does a head supplier know what the protrusion from the block is if you havent told them or had them measure it?

from memory the thickness are

1 hole/notch = 1.3mm
2=1.4
3-1.5
0=1.6


Echo, echo, echo........

[Blknight.aus]

yeah,yeah, I opendd the thread on the second post, got called away and replied without updating it.....

[wrinklearthur]

Best you get the correct gasket first, to find the piston height rotate the crank to exactly top dead centre, use a straight edge across the top of the piston and then with feeler gauges measure the gap between the straight edge and the top of the block.
The critical measurement is for the highest piston, select the next thickest gasket for that piston protrusion.

There are four gaskets to choose from;

ERR 5261 ------ 1.30 mm -- 1 hole
ERR 5262 ------ 1.40 mm -- 2 holes
ERR 5263 ------ 1.50 mm -- 3 holes -- most common gasket
ERR 7154 ------ 1.60 mm -- no holes

.
Ugh !

[THE BOOGER]

Thanks Bundalene, so is it a monotorque type gasket or do I retorque?

Should not need to retorque. just use torque wrench first then angle gauge:) Just did a d1 300tdi myself the deefer is much easier more room to move:)

[camel_landy]

Although there are 4x thicknesses of head gasket, most people go for the 'no-hole' gasket... Simply coz it's the thickest, easier and will fit all cars.

As for the torque and then tightening by degrees, here's a little tip: ISTR That the measurements are in factors of 60 degrees, which is exactly the same as the flats on the bolts... ;)

M

[Blknight.aus]

have read of this thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/105692-aa-workshop-basics.html) in particular Post 13 (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1275762-post13.html) and post 14 (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1275762-post14.html) they deal with angle torquing.

alternatively if you're in brissy or thereabouts drop me a line and when I get back to the world I'll bring round my gear and bolt the head down for you.

[2stroke]

have read of this thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/105692-aa-workshop-basics.html) in particular Post 13 (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1275762-post13.html) and post 14 (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1275762-post14.html) they deal with angle torquing.

alternatively if you're in brissy or thereabouts drop me a line and when I get back to the world I'll bring round my gear and bolt the head down for you.
I'm in Ipswich as a matter of fact. I've ordered an angle gauge and need to stand on my own 2 feet in regards to Landy maintenance however if you're offering and being virtually neighbours...:D Always keen to meet other Roverers.

[2stroke]

Once the angle gauge arrives I'll pull off the head and if needed get another gasket with the same number of holes.

[rick130]

Once the angle gauge arrives I'll pull off the head and if needed get another gasket with the same number of holes.

You don't need to remove the head, you can 'read' the holes, the tab is visible as it sits externally to the head.

[2stroke]

Well that was easy, seems the one fitted has 3 holes, another thing I can get before it comes apart, thanks!

[Blknight.aus]

more than happy to lay on the spanners to help out with torquing down the head...

skip getting the torque angle gauge, its a luxury item for a tdi head, I've done dozens without one using the angle method indicated in my previous post.

the angles are all easy ones in either multiples of 30 or 45 degrees. (most landrover things are

[2stroke]

So I ordered a 3 hole head gasket from FWD and went today to pick it up, turns out they had a no hole one. Will it be a problem to use this? Guess it will decompress it a little?
Oh and I bought the angle gauge, only $39, just a drop in the scheme of things. Going to get the AC gas sucked out and see about a condenser that lets more air through (or even one that's the same but not blocked) before the bonnet comes off.

[Blknight.aus]

lower static compression can be compensated by applying more boost.

naturally if your going to shove more air in there you might as well put in something more for it to set fire to and you dont have to worry about the head gasket going because you've just replaced it.

isnt preventative maintenance fun:angel::twisted:

on the edit, I might be able to get the recovery gear from work to vac the AC down for you but probably wont be able to regas it for you unless you know someone whose got a bottle or you want to fill it with bang gas.

[2stroke]

Already have the AC thing under control, thanks Dave for the offer. George at FWD told me the 3 hole is 1.59mm and no hole is 1.6mm. Though since the 1 hole I already have is 1.3mm I suspect the 3 hole would be 1.5mm? If I'm better off changing it for a 3 hole then I'll just drive back down there and swap it. I had hoped that it all depends on boost, which is a rubbery kind of figure anyway? I'm chasing reliability more than power increase as the Canning trip is in the company of unboosted Landcruisers.;)

[2stroke]

I guess preventative maintenance really is fun, when you compare it to a blown head gasket 5000km from home and 1000km from any town :D. Oh and by the way the new head to go on is an International type one, the "flowed higher performance" one sold by Turners.

[jboot51]

How did you go with the A/C condensor? ,I'm looking at doing the same.

The turners head, any change out of $1k

Cheers,
Tony

[2stroke]

How did you go with the A/C condensor? ,I'm looking at doing the same.

The turners head, any change out of $1k

Cheers,
Tony
Will let you know regards the condenser but the head was $1070 including (the wrong) headgasket and tappet cover, manifold gasket etc, new bolts and timing belt. This included courier fees. The headgasket was only wrong because I didn't know you could "read" it with the head still on and you can select the headgasket by ticking the appropriate box when you order.
Edit, they have a standard replacement head for about 100 quid cheaper, spanish made.

[Blknight.aus]

for increased reliability lower the compression ratio (thicker head gasket) and then give it about 1/2 of a stage 1 mod (either up the start position on the at rest set screw a mickey or rotate the plunger a little) to the injector pump to compensate it back to normal driving figures in the mid range.

[2stroke]

Had the gas sucked out this arv (a friend I 4wd with makes icepack truck cab AC units) turns out it didn't have much gas left in it anyhow, was last gassed in 2009. He had a look at the condenser and reckons it's a multiflow brand and is only $150, his price I'd assume. He says replace it in preference to cleaning as they corrode internally after 5 or so years.
So Dave, the 1.6mm gasket it is then, I'd really appreciate some guidance regards boost and fuelling, should I get boost and pyro gauges in first? First things first though of course.

[Blknight.aus]

yep, boost and pyro, good for engine life and fuel savings if you learn how to drive the gauges. Get a feeling for how its all playing and then if you like we'll wind it up through stages 1-2 of pump tweakery


keep the exisiting condensor and reciever, if you bolt up a second Ac pump you can use it as a cooler for an endless air supply and if you do the revs just right its just big enough to let you get from one tyre to the next without the pump cutting out.

[2stroke]

Okay, picked up a VDO pyro gauge today (still waiting for boost and water temp), is there a prefered distance down the dump pipe it should go? The VDO book said minimum of 150mm?
Oh and why is this site all in really small writing? I can't work out how to fix it, it's really hard to see!
Search didn't seem to help, besides too hard to read...:D

[460cixy]

Best place for the pyro is in the egr plate before the turbo

[2stroke]

Seems too easy?

[jboot51]

Re-small print.
Bottom right, smack the zoom up.
I quite often have to do that myself.

[Blknight.aus]

thats where they go, I have on predrilled into a plate on a turbo thats waiting for install, feel free to drop round tomorrow morning and I can drill and tap yours to suit if you need it.

[2stroke]

The Tdi now has VDO boost pressure, EGT and water temperature gauges so at least now I have some idea what's going on inside. At first I thought the temp gauge was faulty but I pulled it all back out and set it up on a small battery in the kitchen and boiled up some water in a saucepan, checking it off against a digital thermometer from zero to 100 degrees and it's spot on. Will check what the thermostat is when the head comes off but I guess it must be about 77 deg. Couldn't get a reading above that in the vehicle. The vent in the guard seems to have dropped temps a bit.
So Dave, I know what you mean now by driving by the EGT. I'm not sure what temps I'm after but I don't think I'll Be giving her any more fuel. If I hold it flat up a long hill in 5th on the highway at 110 plus the EGT climbs to 700 deg at 16 lb boost, as soon as I back off it comes quickly back to 400. Cruising at 100 it stays around 350 to 400 depending if it's going uplill or down. Makes me wonder what it got to when I flogged it up the toowoomba range the other week, maybe ignorance is bliss?:o
So I assume having the gauge before the turbo it reacts a lot quicker to throttle as the turbine would take time to heat and cool?

[Blknight.aus]

yep, and it gives you a reliable temp figure because the post turbo numbers are a little rubbery as the turbo draws a variable amount of power from the exhaust (remember the engine is only a heat pump and heat=engergy)

I think we need to play with the turbo setup a little (configure it like I showed you on my tdi200)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1521229-post17.html


theres my usual speil.

[rick130]

If it won't go over 77*, the oil t/stat might be stuck open ?

Had that happen last winter.

BTW, if you up your boost a touch EGT's will drop, but I can scream past 720* if I hold it flat up the range here @ 17psi.

[2stroke]

Was a cool day today, will see what happens on a hot one.
Will change a few tubes around when I do the head, need to do an adaptor for the bolt in the back of the manifold. Was the boost control you put into the manifold Dave wasn't it?
Things seem happy when i drive her like a grown up.
Edit, I replaced oil and water thermostats in '09, SHOULD still be okay.

[Blknight.aus]

boost actuator (the one on the turbo) should come from the manifold.

[2stroke]

Took her for a run today, 270 km around the mountains, really had to be trying to get EGTs above 600 deg, cruising is still 350 to 450 at 100Ks, drops quickly on no throttle. Water temp won't make 80 deg no matter how hard I push it and is mostly low 70s, maybe it's air cooling a bit now that it has such a big vent in the guard? Either wat I'll check the thermostats when I pull her apart, probably start that tomorrow.

[2stroke]

It lives! This arvo I finally got her on the road again, after a new Turners "flowed" head, timing belt, idler and tensioner, a few serpentine belt idler bearings, new head gasket, new turbo, cleaned out radiator and intercooler as well as oil and filters. Did hurt the wallet a little but it runs smoother and the new turbo boosts a little quicker also the top end is improved so that at overtaking speeds the acceleratation times from 85 to 110 ks are noticeably better. And now it has a thermostat that closes fully the temp stays right on 92 deg. The turbo seems to have the wastegate set to 15 psi from Garrett which suits me fine. :)

[roverrescue]

2stroke...
after my rebuild, the wastegate was opening at 14psi
I felt that a shade low, on JC recommendation, rather than frigging around with the wastegate actuator I have just installed a simple ebay Dawes Valve between the wastegate actuator and boost sense pipe.

I now have it easily boost out to 18, 20psi and the gate opens
(EMS set to alarm at 18 which works a little like a tacho shift light ;) when running through the gears)

Made a huge difference keeping the wastegate closed till much higher up than 14psi

I can not see 20psi causing too many dramas on my new engine - from Bush65 calcs a 300tdi is pretty inefficient out above 20psi so Im happy for the gate to open at that point

Just an inexpensive idea if you want to adjust the upper boost pressure. I think I got the valve and a metre of Si hose delivered to Timbuktu for less than $75 - have the valved attached to the firewall fuse box.

Steve