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Gullible
2nd February 2013, 07:53 PM
Below is a copy of an email from ACMC. If you like being able to change the size of the tyres on your vehicle or putting a 2" lift on you'd better do something.

If you think "not my problem, I'm not in NSW" once these laws are in one state it doesn't take much for them to spread to other sates. :(




***Important - Please Read and Act****

The NSW Center for Road Safety has done it again - things are about to get a lot tougher for motoring enthusiasts in NSW unless we act now.

During 2010-11 the RTA started to demand that Engineering Signatories perform an "Abridged Brake Test" on many modified vehicles - this test required high speeds, the rental of a specialist testing venue and frequently resulted in damage to the vehicle and tyres.

At the 2012 Motor Enthusiasts Conference the Roads Minister made several important commitments to address these concerns:-
- That a new brake test would be developed within a newly established Vehicle Standards Working Group that included representatives from Motoring Enthusiasts Community
- That the VSCCS scheme would not dictate the tests that vehicle certifiers needed to perform
- That the brake test would not be mandatory, and would be at the discretion of the vehicle certifier.
- That the revised brake test would be practical and affordable

Yesterday, the center for road safety staged a demonstration of the revised brake test procedure at Goulburn airport for members of the VSWG and vehicle certifiers. The Center for Road Safety believe that it was a huge success - we believe it just demonstrates that they are still not getting the message and will continue to inflict punitive conditions on motoring enthusiasts.

Somewhat ironically, the test vehicle used as the subject failed the tests...not because of the modifications....the failure was down to the only remaining standard parts of the brake system!

The new brake test schedule will cost between $2000 to $3000 to perform and unless you can convince your local Police area command to let you use over a km of road with an 80, or in some cases a 100km/h speed limit will require you to rent an airport for a day.

The test not only applies to vehicles that have modified brakes, but also to vehicles with minor changes to vehicle weight (10% axle loading), power (20%), wheel size, suspension height and a whole host of other changes.

The test also requires historic pre-ADR vehicles to perform to test standards derived from current generation ADR requirements - an approach which has not been tested and will be almost impossible for most historic vehicles to pass.

This will encompass most of the most common modifications made to vehicles by enthusiast groups - changes as small as fitting a bullbar, fitting out a tradie's ute with a storage system, a basic engine retune or just trying to improve the woeful standard brakes in your car will now become prohibitively expensive.

Even if you can afford to spend $3000 on a brake test, it is doubtful that you will be able to get it done - the Center for Road Safety stated that it had demonstrated that the test schedule was practical because it had performed the tests on one single vehicle, and was offering to rent a test venue once every 6 months or so as a goodwill gesture.

In our view the test can only be regarded as practical if *every* impacted vehicle can be tested in a convenient fashion - the test schedule will mandate testing many thousands of vehicles each year, and it is difficult to see how more than a hundred or so can be put through the test process each year.

The RMS require that modified vehicles being brought into NSW must be re-registered within a few weeks.....a mandatory inspection process that will take many months will do nothing but force these vehicles off the road.

We will post details of the brake test schedule on our website later today so that you can judge for yourself.

The proposed schedule is in direct conflict with the commitments that the Minister made at the 2012 conference.
- It is not practical or affordable
- It does dictate the tests that the certifiers must perform (It was intimated that this will be enforced through the certifier's audit process which will result in fines of thousands of dollars for the certifiers if they fail to produce the evidence from the brake test)
- It removes the discretion of the certified and makes the brake test mandatory.

We need you to do several things in order to ensure that this revised brake test schedule does not go ahead in its current form.

1. Watch the video of the Road Minister's speech at last years conference - Motor Enthusiasts Conference - Duncan Gay - YouTube - the relevant section begins at 14:45 into the video.
2. Send an email to the minister's office - office@gay.minister.nsw.gov.au - Reminding him of the previous commitments made and make it clear that the brake test schedule currently proposed by the Center for Road Safety does not meet them, request that the brake test is referred back to the Vehicle Standards Working Group with a strongly reinforced message to meet the commitment to practicality and affordability.
3. Try to attend the Motor Enthusiast Conference on the 17th Feb - 2013 Motor Enthusiasts Conference - Eventbrite (http://2013-acmc-conference.eventbrite.com.au/) - Entrance to the exhibition is free, entrance to the conference itself costs around $30 including lunch and will provide the opportunity to question the Minister and senior representatives from RMS and TfNSW directly. We are also going to try and arrange a demonstration of some simple alternative approaches to brake testing within the exhibition area.
4. Share this post with anyone that you know that will be impacted - club members, motoring enthusiasts, parts suppliers, modification workshops, etc and encourage them to act.
5. Sign up for an account on the ACMC website - Home - Australian Confederation of Motor Clubs (http://www.confederationofmotorclubs.org.au/) to add yourself to our mailing list so that we can keep you informed. The registration process is very simple if you have a facebook account, just click the blue facebook connect button and your account will be created automatically.
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Tank
3rd February 2013, 11:47 AM
Bump.

DeeJay
3rd February 2013, 12:53 PM
You have to wonder if it's really hoonmobiles they are after & the 4wd & other make fraternities are "collatteral damage":(

THE BOOGER
3rd February 2013, 01:00 PM
They will always use the hoons as their excuse but we are all in their sights some people dont think we need to modify anything and that choice of colour is to much for us:(

Miraz
3rd February 2013, 02:46 PM
I thought I'd pop up and add a couple of things to the thread..

1. The Minister intervened and we're likely to see some more substantial revisions to the proposal before it is suitable for release.
2. I wrote the email, if you have any questions about the work that we're doing with vehicle standards then feel free to drop me a PM

Ratel10mm
3rd February 2013, 07:48 PM
It all sounds very Heath Robinson to me.


Perhaps someone should explain to the powers that be about the existence of rolling roads? :D :p

Lotz-A-Landies
3rd February 2013, 08:04 PM
It all sounds very Heath Robinson to me.


Perhaps someone should explain to the powers that be about the existence of rolling roads? :D :pI'm not an engineer nor physicist but AFAIK the vehicle on a rolling road has no momentum and the rollers will not test brake line nor skidding. I am also happy to be enlightened.

Not sure that many people would like emergency brake tests to be conducted on their dynos!

FFR
3rd February 2013, 08:22 PM
How many people is confirmed to have died because they lifted the car two inches and then the brakes were adversely affected ?

In Spain you can not have stickers in the rear windows (among an endless list of restrictions). It is because a non-type certified material used for the sticker can prevent the window to be broken by the rescue team in case you have an accident. Yes, it is not a joke. You put a sticker, and you can fail the pink slip inspection. I got a warning notice in one inspection because I had removed the cloth lining from the roof in an old patrol.

Of course, forget about bullbars and the like.

Miraz
3rd February 2013, 08:24 PM
There is a huge amount that can be done on a roller brake Dyno or plate-type testing machine...watch this space. :-)

Ratel10mm
3rd February 2013, 09:06 PM
I'm not an engineer nor physicist but AFAIK the vehicle on a rolling road has no momentum and the rollers will not test brake line nor skidding. I am also happy to be enlightened.

Not sure that many people would like emergency brake tests to be conducted on their dynos!

Fair comment Diana. I was thinking in terms of efficiency rather than skid or line holding. However iirc, the one & only time I've had a vehicle on a rolling road you could certainly tell if it was running true, I was told to make sure my thumbs were outside of the steering wheel in case the car decided to try veering. As I recall we coasted to a stop, so there must be some momentum. However it was a long time ago & my memory may be failing.
That was all at Esso Research's laboratories in Oxfordshire.

Miraz
4th February 2013, 10:17 AM
The testing machines test each wheel individually, so they can do a pretty good job of working out if the vehicle is going to slew sideways, lock the rear wheels or demonstrate other poor behaviour under brakes.

Have a look at this as an example - Platetronic SafeTstop - YouTube

In under a minute you get vehicle weight, mass distribution, brake force distribution, shock absorber condition and a handbrake force test.

Lotz-A-Landies
4th February 2013, 10:32 AM
Fair comment Diana. I was thinking in terms of efficiency rather than skid or line holding. ...<snip> ... As I recall we coasted to a stop, so there must be some momentum. However it was a long time ago & my memory may be failing.
That was all at Esso Research's laboratories in Oxfordshire.It seems (according to Miraz above) that there are specific brake testing rolling roads. In relation to the coasting to a stop, I think you will find that is the momentum of the rolling road rollers and vehicle running gear momentum not the momentum of the vehicle itself.

The vehicle momentum will involve factors like vehicle gross mass and centre of gravity (incluning it's tendency to roll over). It is this last factor that is important for significantly lifted vehicles, if the braking line is not straight ahead then the momentum may be turned into a force rolling the vehicle over.

Miraz
4th February 2013, 10:39 AM
There are several types of machines

- The plate type devices use the momentum of the vehicle, it doesn't need to be moving quickly 5-10km/h is enough to assess the weight transfer under braking

- There are powered roller dynos with electrical motors turning the rollers that simulate the inertia of the vehicle

- At the top of the scale are inertia brake dynos that spin up big lumps of metal attached to the rollers to simulate the inertia of the vehicle.

None of the ADR tests include any swerve or vehicle dynamics validation! But it would seem sensible to consider some consideration of the relationship between CoG, Roll Center and Roll Resistance in the suspension design with some sort of validation test.

101RRS
4th February 2013, 10:57 AM
The ACT RTA have used a rolling road to test brakes for a very long time. I can remember when I first came to the ACT in 1990 having to take my Series 3 in for its roadworthy and being concerned about passing the brake test - put it on the machine and watched the numbers come up with the brakes applied - passed with acceptable force and even relatively consistent across all four wheels and here was me think the series 3 brakes were not good. The handbrake even passed with flying colours.

This was 23 years ago and the machine had been there a long time then.

Garry

Lotz-A-Landies
4th February 2013, 11:20 AM
The RTA mermaids have brake testing rollers in their scale trailers, but they only test the efficiency of each of the brakes at relatively low speeds, not any of the momentum related effects of vehicle dynamics under high speed braking.

The Council of Motoring Clubs (veteran, vintage and classic vehicles) is concerned that under the current testing many of the vehicles will not be able to get to the speed required for the test. The sensible test would be something like 80% or the particular vehicle's V-Max, even if the VMax is only 80KPH i.e. the brake test at 64KPH.

Remember this is the same RTA, that wants (wanted) to consider a replacement body fitted onto 1920 Chev, because the original had wood worm, as a new individually constructed vehicle and have to comply with 2013 ADR.

Miraz
4th February 2013, 04:06 PM
You can use a set of rollers to simulate the higher speed behaviour relatively easily - about the only thing that you can't do is high temperature fade testing.

The test speeds are all capped at 80% of the maximum vehicle speed - even in the ADR's - the main concern that we have for historic vehicles is the attempt to retrofit current fade performance tests onto all modified vehicles.

Davo
4th February 2013, 05:23 PM
. . . Remember this is the same RTA, that wants (wanted) to consider a replacement body fitted onto 1920 Chev, because the original had wood worm, as a new individually constructed vehicle and have to comply with 2013 ADR.

Sometimes it's best not to tell them, if possible . . .

UncleHo
4th February 2013, 07:18 PM
A 1920 Chevrolet ? a 490 model :) predating a Superior K, Ooh! it would give the RTA blokes something to think about,2 wheel brakes (rear) contracting bands :eek: they were only ever designed to slow the vehicle down and the hand brake used to stop it.

The neighbour has one up on the farm,his grandfather bought it new in 1923 a buckboard ute 1/4 eliptic springs,and it has not been a non-goer,on full rego he now uses it to go and get the Sunday papers.

We took it to the Nambour Swap a few years ago,up the Bruce Highway @ 28 miles per hour lovely.

101RRS
4th February 2013, 07:43 PM
Maybe we need to get Roothy and 4wd Action Magazine to organise a protest on this issue.

UncleHo
4th February 2013, 07:47 PM
:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::clap2:

Lotz-A-Landies
4th February 2013, 10:40 PM
. . . Remember this is the same RTA, that wants (wanted) to consider a replacement body fitted onto 1920 Chev, because the original had wood worm, as a new individually constructed vehicle and have to comply with 2013 ADR.Sometimes it's best not to tell them, if possible . . .Not necessarily possible if the vehicle is a restoration that hasn't been registered in decades.

Bigbjorn
5th February 2013, 08:20 AM
Not necessarily possible if the vehicle is a restoration that hasn't been registered in decades.

Try going there with a 1928 Dodge that was made up from a collection of original parts accumulated piece by piece over 20+ years originally as spare parts for my other Dodge. "Previously registered in Queensland"? "Previous registration number"? "Bill of sale, receipt, or other proof of ownership"?

To make things worse no chassis number could be found on the frame. All literature says it is stamped on the web of the chassis rail in the vicinity of the steering box. This may have been so in the USA but not in OZ.Here the number was on a brass plate attached to the toeboard, long gone. I expected they would issue a number for me to stamp on the chassis as they do with home made trailers. In the end I went away and stamped the engine number on the rail and this was accepted.

UncleHo
5th February 2013, 09:42 AM
G'day Brian :)

Yes, the Superior K buckboard has that plate,on the passengers side wher one would stretch their feet out,it's been a while since I had a close look at it, I will try and catch up to him next Sunday when he goes and gets the papers :)


cheers

frantic
5th February 2013, 11:05 AM
Maybe we need to get Roothy and 4wd Action Magazine to organise a protest on this issue.

Actually not so stupid as they got on tape/YouTube a commitment from he previous govt. minister not to introduce the vs( can't remember no.) without further consultation. It looks like new govt. , same public servants , same stupid policy re-surfaced with a new name.